Dagon wrote:Well, going with the -tion series, if that is (there's no reason to think it isn't) the same Megatron as the Megatron of Origins, then his chosen method of the 6 step plan is a pattern of learned behavior. He has learned that violence ultimately is the only thing that will get people to listen to him; even the 'peace loving' Autobots in Origin were only interested in him because he was perpetrating violent actions.
That doesn't justify anything. He's not a child, he knows he has a choice in the matter. And destroying entire civilizations for attention is probably worse than doing it for power.
Right, he's not a child. He chose his methods because he knows they work. I don't recall any Megatron sitting around and asking others to feel sorry for him because he didn't know better, and that he should be let off the hook. Sniveling, 80s super-villian-got-caught stuff really shouldn't count. I'm hoping we avoid the trappings of the form here.
Dagon wrote:As for Peace through Tyrany, Megatron isn't saying anything that the Autobots aren't. Freedom is the right of all sentient beings, but Prime can justify killing Decepticons by saying they're barbarians that don't deserve something (life, freedom) that they don't themselves value.
Um, no. Autobots believe in Peace through Peace. And they justify killing Decepticons as protecting themselves and, in most cases, humanity. To put it in human perspective, all of us have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Until you start committing crimes, then those same rights are null and void for you.
Only if it's justifable. If you execute a shoplifter, then you're the one who's wrong. I'm going to guess we don't need to list an exhaustive list of historical instances in which an other was attacked in the name of maintaining peace. Peace through tyrany also would result in the condition of peace, but in a different vision. If you don't commit crimes because you either fear punishment or are trying to be an upstanding and moral person, both reasons mean you are not committing crimes.
BM Megatron brought peace to Cybertron. That's hard to deny, if peace can be said to be lack of discord and conflict. He doesn't do it through the nicest means, but he does it.
And I know that that's the ends justifying the means, and I know that I'm presenting that part pretty poorly.
Dagon wrote:Also, the line doesn't blur or fall based on the actions or things he's condoned, any more than saying that attaining freedom by any means necessary is admirable. What we have is two sides who essentially agree to tolerate certain amounts of "evil" or immoral deeds so long as the ultimate result is something beneficial to the group.
And yet it resulted in a massive civil war that destroyed one planet and spilled over onto many more. All because Megatron wanted power.
And so, if the Autobots need to wipe out every single Decpticon in order to secure their brand of peace, it'll be ok. Because it's been proven again and again, they can't just sit the Decepticons down and talk this over, so basically, kill or be killed. Or deactive them, and put their personalities or what ever it was in storage, like the Combaticons.
So, it's cool when the 'good' guys do it, but if the 'bad' guys do it, they must be wiped out so as to prevent future problems.
Dagon wrote:If Cybertronians agree to be subjugated under Megatron so as to acchieve what they want or believe in, then it's not evil.
None of them agreed to it. That's why they're at war.
I meant the Decepticons, who follow Megatron. They were the Cybertronians I was refering to. If Cybertronians agree to be subjugated under Megatron, so as to acchieve what they want or believe in, then their being evil is something applied to them via their association.
Dagon wrote:Remember, 'evil' is a quality that is applied by others, not self applied. Megatron is evil to Prime and his guys.....I doubt Starscream and company sit back and think that Megatron is evil. If they elect to be ruled through fear and pain, that is their choice, as Megatron also never made people follow him, unless we feel the need to talk about Inferno's reprogramming in Energon. And really, let's not.
Okay. We could talk about the Constructicon's reprogramming, and how Megatron used them to raze and entire city.
Ok, well played. I forgot about that one. We still have to acknowledge that there are those who follow Megatron of their own volition.