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MightyMagnus78 wrote:What about the characters that allegedly died off screen, Red Alert for example, where do we stand with them? We never saw them die so again there is no way of knowing whether they turned gray or not.

Is there no official list of those 'bots who met their maker?

If they didn't die onscreen and/or were stated to have died, then they didn't die.

MightyMagnus78 wrote:What about the characters that allegedly died off screen, Red Alert for example, where do we stand with them? We never saw them die so again there is no way of knowing whether they turned gray or not.

Is there no official list of those 'bots who met their maker?

Technical there is no canon "alleged" deaths.

The only thing that suggest he, or any others, died is the storyboards.Which arent canon because they didnt make it to the film.Much like many things from the storyboards and scripts.

You can consider them for your own continuity if you like.

A number of fan sites have compiled lists, but as far as I know, Hasbro never has.So no "Official" list.

[quote] the close up shots are more significant then the flyby or a far away shot.[quote]
LOL Why? Because it helps your arguement? Two frames of what look like a shadow to me and a black hand vs an entire shot of the bots as a group with color. If they were going to make them grey to show death youd think they wouldnt drop the ball and miss a grand opp like the shot of all of them. Yet they were in color.Cant deny To deny that is ignorant.

[quote]As for the light bar.....its glass, I wouldnt expect it to fade.[quote]
Now your picking what does and dosent turn grey? LOL! Either they turned black or they didnt. You cant have it both ways. Every part of prime turned BLACK glass included. I dont recall ANY of the bots you claim turn grey actually turn black. All you have are two frames of shadow and a black hand. That proves ZIP.
the only bot to turn color when he died was prime so thats what you have to go by. As stated he turned BLACK. All of him.not a shadowy grey. That supports my opinion that you have pointed out color problems and shadows. Nothing more.


[quote]it cant be Prowl.Prowl was closer to Brawn.The arm in question is near Ironhide and near the front of the ship.only Ratchet was in that potion[quote]
Uh your wrong about placement but also wide of my point. I know it was ratchet.I was simply pointing out that a movie has so many color and animation problems. they cant even recal the placement of their bots how can you say that those two frames and a black hand couldnt be color screw ups?

[quote]
Who argued that?I never made any such claim.I said we never saw his body in death....and we didnt.[quote]
You tried to imply that he COULD still be alive. No proof of death because he wasnt grey or some such crap. I guess daniel reading his name off a tomb stone in dark awakening isnt proof enough for you...

[quote]
A] that ship want called the Ark.
B]theres no evidence the ship crashed.[quote]

Actually theres no proof that the ship WASNT called the arc. So Im gonna say its called the arc because it makes me an individual. Im also gonna say megs is a pot head and thats why his eyes are red sometimes and sometimes not. Noone has said he smokes the ganja but noone said he DIDNT either. Silly hu? Down right annoying even? Thats the thought process your using with your arguement. Saying the ship didnt crash shows your warped view. You have a ship with a giant hole in it taking heavy fire exploding and catching fire and is last seen falling to the ground. You however wont acknowladge that it crashed because THE WRITERS DIDNT TELL YOU IT DID? ROTFLMFAO!!

[quote]I proved Optimus wasnt the only one to turn gray, which is the only fact I claimed.[quote]

You proved nothing.



[quote]Nothing is "obvious" about life and death for these robots.And we did see some of them again.[quote]

Now your scaring me. You do know that transformers are a work of fiction right? As in they arent real?


[quote]As I said a few times already, and if you had been paying attention you would know, is that I like to think they all died.But, there is no solid evidence from within the narrative that they died.What was "ment" is irrelevant because just like many things that are ment, they dont always show to be facts.[quote]

The kind of proof you need dosent exist. You arent going to settle for anything less than a writer saying youre wrong. Im thinking that wouldnt even do the trick.

[quote] since your new I'll over look your judgment as being ignorant of the facts.[quote]
So because I havnt been on this sight for years Im "ignorant of the facts"? Ive been a trans fan for a LOOOOONG time budy. I know just as much as the next guy. To dismiss my opinions and statements as ignorant because of my lack of a post count shows just how ignorant YOU are. All one need read to see just how warped you realy are is this comment. As I said in an earlier post, you need no help. You do fine all by your lonesome.

[quote]You attempted to be condescending when you suggested I could misse it if I "BLINKED".[quote]

LOL On what plain of existance could that statement be considered condescending? That was a genuine statement ment to be helpfull . I thought you missed it because I couldnt fathome that you could realy be arguing that wheeljack was alive. Dont try to turn this on me. Its all in the posts pal.


[quote]You have failed to provide any solid evidence from within the narrative.If you dont like it????Please prove your case with solid evidence from within the narrative and not your perception of the events.[quote]


I could and will say the same of you. You will never get the "facts" youve so feverishly searched for for the last quarter century because they dont exist. The writters didnt say the words "those bots are dead" because they didnt think they had to. Thats all your going to accept as "facts"
Sometimes you have to use COMMON SENSE to figure things out. A quality which you obviously lack. This toon was made for children. They werent thinking someone like you would pick it to this extent. At the end of the day they killed off all those bots to make room for new bots and killing them let you know where they went. Its as simple as that. You go ahead and live in your land tho where your the king smart guy. Just make sure to stay there your highness.

Burn wrote:Right, so this is how it's going to be.

If you think someone's being rude and insulting, you use the "Report this post" button, then you don't reply to that person. You know what happens when you reply? You make the situation worse.

decepta-scott, your insults were not needed. Please read up on the Forum Rules. You're not getting a warning this time, but if you keep it up you will be.

What I just posted is also not open for discussion. The only reply to what I said that I want to see is an acknowledgement and hopefully an apology or two. Otherwise, no more bickering. 'kay?

Cripes. Shouldve scrolled back a page. Gotcha though. Apologizes to all offended.

decepta-scott wrote:LOL Why?

Are you really asking this question?Its a basic film making technique

Because they are produced with greater detail, because they are made to deliver particular story and plot points in many cases, because they are used to attract the audience to whats important and the focus of that scene.

And if you look at this film, most of the animation errors are in far away shots with few errors in close up shots.

Two frames of what look like a shadow to me and a black hand vs an entire shot of the bots as a group with color.

Watch the film, Prowl fads slowly, its no shadow.

A] we cant tell if Prowl had color when on the flor because he is already black and white.
B]The Prowl turning scene was on screen for almost 7 seconds with Prowl the only focus in the scene.
C] the fly by scene was only 3 second long, with no focus in particular

youd think they wouldnt drop the ball

This from the guy that argued the film is full of animation errors

Yet they were in color.Cant deny To deny that is ignorant.

But one can conclude that those with color werent dead....yet.

Brawn had color, that cant be denied....but his death was never confirmed.

Ironhide had color...........but he wasnt dead yet, the proof of that is in his grabbing Megatrons leg

Ratchet had color......but he could have been dieing slowly, and was dead 8 seconds after when Megatron walked by his body.

We cant tell if Prowl had color because he is black and white.

Now your picking what does and dosent turn grey?

laugh all you like but its a logical conclusion based on what we saw in the film.

Prowls glass legs didnt really fade, Primes glass chest didnt really fade, more like a change in shade or a bit of "dulling"....much like Prowls lite bar was a "dull" red compared to the red used on his horns and other characters.

Every part of prime turned BLACK glass included.

WRONG AGAIN

To begin with Prime didnt turn black at all, He faded to about 4 different shades of gray.With the silver parts of him being very light gray, while the blue ares were very dark gray.

And as you can see, Primes glass did NOT turn black, it just became a bit dull



You really should check your facts first.

Uh your wrong about placement

How am I wrong about the placement?I said Prowl was closer to Brawn and here's the proof.

I know it was ratchet.

Sure you did, thats why you suggested it may be Prowl, a guy with a black arm and white hand.

Even your attempt to save face has failed.

I was simply pointing out that a movie has so many color and animation problems

which could be an alternate explanation for Prowl's light bar.

You tried to imply that he COULD still be alive.

I said no such thing.Nothing I said came close to implying that.

I suggest you re-read my post and pay closer attention to what was posted.What I said is that we dont know if he turned gray because we never saw his body after Megatron killed him.

Actually theres no proof that the ship WASNT called the arc.

And theres nothing to suggest it was called the Ark.The name "Ark" wasnt used ever in the entire g1 toon run.

Thats the thought process your using with your arguement.

Hardly.The ship only had one explosion, was on a slow, controlled decent which seemed to be automated.Sure, its possible it crashed, its also possible it soft landed theres no solid evidence either way.

Im thinking that wouldnt even do the trick.

no it wouldn't because writer intent is not relevant to the debate.

So because I havnt been on this sight for years Im "ignorant of the facts"?

Yes, you made a judgment about me [claiming I cant admit to being wrong and such] and my style of posting not knowing the facts about me and how I post.

I'm not talking about your knowledge of TF's, I'm talking about your judgment of me and how it was ignorant of you to make such a comment when you dont know me well enough......you might want to try following a conversation before you go off ranting and making things personal again.

LOL On what plain of existance could that statement be considered condescending?

I guess the same one where telling you the facts you some how determined was disrespectful.

I thought you missed it because I couldnt fathome that you could realy be arguing that wheeljack was alive.

I never argued Wheeljack was alive, I said theres no solid evidence from within the narrative he died.

So far you havent provided a single peace of evidence to the contrary.

Dont try to turn this on me. Its all in the posts pal

I dont need to turn it on you, your insults are the evidence of where it started.

I could and will say the same of you.

But do you see the difference here?

You claimed it was a FACT Wheeljack,Windcharger and Brawn died.

You cant back that up with solid evidence from within the narrative.

I claimed theres no solid evidence from within the narrative they died.

And there isint.

Sometimes you have to use COMMON SENSE to figure things out.

Its been said that COMMON SENSE and LOGIC can not be used to explain anything in the G1 cartoon.

I will respect the request of the mods here. I could argue with you forever but sadly Ive been asked not to. I have satisfied myself with the answers Ive given you. Thats all Im worried about. Have a nice day stovokor

decepta-scott wrote:I will respect the request of the mods here. I could argue with you forever but sadly Ive been asked not to. I have satisfied myself with the answers Ive given you. Thats all Im worried about. Have a nice day stovokor

As far as I can tell you were asked not to insult and not be disrespectful, not to stop debating.

You should be capable of debating with out resorting to insults and personal comments.If not then maybe its better dropped.

If so, have a nice day as well.I hold no grudges and look forwarded to future debates.

I know this has been discussed a lot and I'm in the middle of reading the Transformer comics of old since I hear they may continue from 81 of that Marvel series. I never saw Headmasters and really I saw Transformer episodes here and there but the movie was my first full on vision of the Transformers. I get now as an adult it was "Out with the old models and make in with the new toys" but really I still feel as I do now, it was a moving movie and a real timeless classic. I get on TV the idea of a death was crazy but it made it more real and more of a push to get you into it the blasting of Iron hide and the others in the beginning of the movie. it sets the tone for the rest of it, and I get where you're discussions on the comics, the deaths, and all that is coming from but for me, the movie was one of my childhood greats.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:The Japanese were still aware of the film's events and knew of some of it.

Theres only evidernce that they knew the basics.

That Optimus died, and that Rodimus took over.

The seemed to have no detailsd about Prowels death, or about Wheeljacks "apparent" death.

Not quite true. the Japanese dub of "Dark Awakening" specifically listed Prowl among the dead Autobots lying within the mausoleum, and that was made well before any of The Headmasters.

Sabrblade wrote:Not quite true. the Japanese dub of "Dark Awakening" specifically listed Prowl among the dead Autobots lying within the mausoleum, and that was made well before any of The Headmasters.

That doesnt really tell us anything/

I've actually been trying to do some research on that for a bit.

Yes, Prowls name is on a crypt......but it was in English.

Not every G1 character in Japan used the English nasmes, some did but not all.Also, was the name used in the dialog?.

So far I cant find any solid answers

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Not quite true. the Japanese dub of "Dark Awakening" specifically listed Prowl among the dead Autobots lying within the mausoleum, and that was made well before any of The Headmasters.

That doesnt really tell us anything/

I've actually been trying to do some research on that for a bit.

Yes, Prowls name is on a crypt......but it was in English.

Prowl's name wasn't seen written in English. Only Ironhide's and Ratchet's were. When Daniel said Prowl's name (in either language version), the video cuts to a long shot that zooms away from the crypt name labels, making it look as though nothing were written on them.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Not every G1 character in Japan used the English nasmes, some did but not all.Also, was the name used in the dialog?.

So far I cant find any solid answers

That's what I meant. Prowl's name was spoken by Daniel.

And Prowl's Japanese name was still "Prowl" (プロール Purōru).

Sabrblade wrote:Prowl's name wasn't seen written in English. Only Ironhide's and Ratchet's were. When Daniel said Prowl's name (in either language version), the video cuts to a long shot that zooms away from the crypt name labels, making it look as though nothing were written on them.

I stand corrtected

That's what I meant. Prowl's name was spoken by Daniel.

And Prowl's Japanese name was still "Prowl" (プロール Purōru).

thats what I've been trying to confirm, I havent been able to locate a Japanese language version of the episode on the net.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:thats what I've been trying to confirm, I havent been able to locate a Japanese language version of the episode on the net.

I got the info from the TFWiki, who originally got it from TFArchive.

TFWiki.net wrote:Prowl was an especially erroneous instance, because he had been specifically name-checked as being among the deceased in the Japanese dub of "Dark Awakening",

TFArchive.com wrote:plus Prowl is referred to as being dead in the Japanese dub of "Dark Awakening")

The TFWiki bit was originally written by user Derik, while the TFArchive page was written by Nevermore.

The Japanese version of Dark Awakening explicitly mentions Prowl's death, therefore this speaking character should not be him. See Ten popular but incorrect rumors about Japanese Transformers #3.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:thats what I've been trying to confirm, I havent been able to locate a Japanese language version of the episode on the net.

I got the info from the TFWiki, who originally got it from TFArchive.

TFWiki.net wrote:Prowl was an especially erroneous instance, because he had been specifically name-checked as being among the deceased in the Japanese dub of "Dark Awakening",

TFArchive.com wrote:plus Prowl is referred to as being dead in the Japanese dub of "Dark Awakening")

The TFWiki bit was originally written by user Derik, while the TFArchive page was written by Nevermore.

The Japanese version of Dark Awakening explicitly mentions Prowl's death, therefore this speaking character should not be him. See Ten popular but incorrect rumors about Japanese Transformers #3.

thanks for the info and links, but I would like to confirm it with the episodev itself.

If you had told me tyou saw/heard it yourself I would have less doubt since I trust you, but I have seen bad info on those sites in the past.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:thanks for the info and links, but I would like to confirm it with the episodev itself.

If you had told me tyou saw/heard it yourself I would have less doubt since I trust you, but I have seen bad info on those sites in the past.

I tried searching for the episode myself, but couldn't find it either. And I really don't wanna have to go purchase the Japanese DVD release of Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers 2010 in order to do so.

EDIT: I found an audio-only stream of the episode. At about 4:40, Daniel starts to list off the names of the deceased Cybertrons, and he says "Aianhaido", "Rachetto", "Puroru", and "Doraggu" (Drag A.K.A. Huffer).

We were told to stop bickering. If you are going to continue though I see no reason why I cannot.

[quote]Because they are produced with greater detail, because they are made to deliver particular story and plot points in many cases, because they are used to attract the audience to whats important and the focus of that scene.And if you look at this film, most of the animation errors are in far away shots with few errors in close up shots.[quote]

Theres a close up scene of galvatron panting for air after unicron chokes him even though these bots have no lungs. Theres your proof that important close up shots do not equal error free.

[quote] we cant tell if Prowl had color when on the flor because he is already black and white.[quote]

White is a COLOR. Like it or not prowl wasnt deep dark grey like prime was. Again white IS A COLOR and prowl had it along with a red light bar. If they were gonna go through the trouble of showing prowl turn grey for three frames why didnt they show all dead bots grey in the scene that was ment to show them all dead?

[quote]The Prowl turning scene was on screen for almost 7 seconds with Prowl the only focus in the scene.[quote]

He started out with what is totally a shadow on his red horn. He comes closer to the camera and falls back. It isnt until he is almost off the screen,roughly three frames that he is engulfed in shadow.

[quote] the fly by scene was only 3 second long, with no focus in particular[quote]

The "focus" Was to show the dead bots. Yet they still had color even prowl. As stated before white IS a color and so is red.

[quote]But one can conclude that those with color werent dead yet.Ratchet had color but he could have been dieing slowly, and was dead 8 seconds after when Megatron walked by his body.[quote]

OMG do you hear yourself? You realy think they said "when we kill these bots we arent gonna have em die right off. Were gonna have em lie there for a bit, show em with color and then have em die a bit later and show em with out color. (even though they were never shown without color) If they were going to go th that extreem they would have made sure not to leave a doubt as to what was being done. They would have even thrown in some dialouge to drive home what they were trying to portrey more than likely. You are reading way WAY to deep into this man. It was ment for kids for cryin out loud.

[quote]We cant tell if Prowl had color because he is black and white.[quote]

Again prowl was black white and red. White and red are colors.He retained his color scheme down to the red light bar.To say nothing of the fact that He wasnt anywhere near the relm of what primes colors were when he passed and thats because he didnt turn grey.

[quote]Prowls glass legs didnt really fade[quote]

Thats because he wasnt ment to change color.

[quote]Primes glass chest didnt really fade, more like a change in shade or a bit of "dulling" much like Prowls lite bar was a "dull" red compared to the red used on his horns and other characters.[quote]

Primes glass went from a light clear blue to a med/dark - dark grey AS DID HIS WHOLE BODY. Its right there in the pic YOU posted. As for prowl there are many shades of red. Just because his light bar was different than his hornes means zip. He had color so he wasnt grey.

[quote]To begin with Prime didnt turn black at all, He faded to about 4 different shades of gray.With the silver parts of him being very light gray, while the blue ares were very dark gray.[quote]

That pic shows a bot that is damn near black. Charcoal grey do be precice. While he did turn two shades of grey they are both very dark from deep grey/black to med/deep grey. None of the bots on the shuttle even come close to this color. Again His glass went from a light clear blue to a med/dark non transparent grey.

[quote]How am I wrong about the placement?I said Prowl was closer to Brawn and here's the proof.[quote]

Now look at the following scene with megs foot and your oh so important black hand. Those bots are in COMPLETELY different places than they were in the previous scene. Further more if you look at the scenes where they fall down dead they are in yet anoher location.I was showing that no two shots had them anywhere close to how they were in any other scene. Point being that if the animators did that bad a job keeping placement then it cannot and shouldnt be used as an example of anything.

[quote]Even your attempt to save face has failed.[quote]

You dont get it do you? just because you send time trying to save face dosent mean I do. I value your opinon of me about as much as I value a dirty sweat sock sandwich. Think of me what you will pal.

[quote]which could be an alternate explanation for Prowl's light bar.[quote]

Or it could also be an alternant explination of your black hand and two frames of shadow. You choose not to acknowladge that though because it dosent support your theory.

[quote]And theres nothing to suggest it was called the Ark.The name "Ark" wasnt used ever in the entire g1 toon run.[quote]

But theres nothing within the narrative to prove it WASNT called an arc either. See how that works? If you can say silly things like that,I can too.

[quote]Hardly.The ship only had one explosion, was on a slow, controlled decent which seemed to be automated.Sure, its possible it crashed, its also possible it soft landed theres no solid evidence either way.[quote]

LOL!!! The thing had a huge hole in it, it was under heavy fire, it had two explosions the second of which ignited half the ship on fire and it was on its way down.
what happens next stovokor? Use your head now. This is the way you think then theres no wonder you wont accept wheeljacks death.

[quote]no it wouldn't because writer intent is not relevant to the debate.[quote]

There ya go. Admittion that even the writers couldnt tell you that you are wrong. Theres no arguing with someone like you.

[quote]Yes, you made a judgment about me [claiming I cant admit to being wrong and such] and my style of posting not knowing the facts about me and how I post I'm not talking about your knowledge of TF's, I'm talking about your judgment of me and how it was ignorant of you to make such a comment when you dont know me well enough you might want to try following a conversation before you go off ranting and making things personal again.[quote]

I dont need to come over and have dinner with you and the fam to know what kind of person you are. I knew that as soon as you ripped my butt for having the gaul to tell you I thought wheeljack was dead and directed you to a screen shot I thought youd missed. If that wasnt enough I can tell what kind of person you are because of the way you insist on force feeding us all the praise youve recieved on this sight by adding it as your personal quote. Since it was you who started this by ripping my butt for no reason without knowing what kind of person I am Your words can be reapplied to you. You did initiate this stovokor. Why dont you go drag your post up here and show it? That ought to settle that.

[quote]I never argued Wheeljack was alive, I said theres no solid evidence from within the narrative he died.[quote]

ROTFLMFAO!!!! LOL!!! OMG stovokor, Thats just another way of saying he didnt die. LOL!!! You are too much bro really.

[quote]So far you havent provided a single peace of evidence to the contrary.[quote]

If I havent then neither have you.

[quote]But do you see the difference here?[quote]

Yes. The difference is that your comments are correct because theyre yours and mine are wrong because they arent yours. Right?

[quote]You claimed it was a FACT that Wheeljack,Windcharger and Brawn died.A FACT[quote]

I never said that. Sure I think them dead but as soon as I saw you thought otherwise I tried to show you why I thought the oposite. I never once said "wheeljack windcharger etc are dead and thats a fact" If I did, show me and Ill gladly apologize.

[quote]I claimed theres no solid evidence from within the narrative they died.And there isint.[quote]

There sure as hell isnt any evidence that they are alive either. If theres no proof then use your common sense. Common sense tells you they died. If for no other reason than to explain away what happened to the missing bots that had to be replaced with new ones. To think what you think is going way to deep into things IMO.

[QUOTEIts been said that COMMON SENSE and LOGIC can not be used to explain anything in the G1 cartoon.[quote]

Its also been said that "the peanut butter walks at midnight" Whats your point? Who said that anyway? I could make the arguement that for anyone who says that theres another that says the polar oposite. I for one am a huge fan of common sense. If I ever see a ship sailing at me with a hole in it exploding and on fire Im getting the hell out of dodge. Id know what was gonna happen if I hung around reguardless of the fact that noone was around to tell me.
Im not going to respond to this anymore. Go ahead and type your rebuttal but It simply takes to long on this cpu for me to go through and quote all your words and answer with my rebuttal. I am here to have fun and while I was having fun with you for awhile, Im bored with you now. Your style of thought will only allow us to go in circles anyway. I have thought of another thread though........

Please fix your quotes... It's getting harder and harder to follow who's saying what in this thread. =(

Prowl looks more blue than gray here to me.

Also, he ins't engulfed in shadow. The front of his legs and feet, as well as the tops of his hands and upper arms, are clearly still being well lit, and yet they're not the same color they were in the top pic. Compare Prowl's white knee/upper arm/hands in the top pic to his darker-yet-still-lit-by-light knee/upper arm/hands in the bottom pic.

Tekka wrote:Please fix your quotes... It's getting harder and harder to follow who's saying what in this thread. =(

I know tekka and I apologize. Truth is I dont know how to do that yet. The cpu at the coffee house I have to use is sooooo slow that it is a terrible pain to post a simple thread let alone trying to quote and submit my opinions in there and all that.
It took me an hour to post that. A FRIGGEN HOUR. Now I learn that it cant be understood.
I tried to put the other persons comments in the middle of two {quote} things, add some space and then offer my rebutal. Im going to try and get someone to show me how to do it the right way though. Also Im simply going to stop engaging in all this run in circle debating. That ought to fix it.

decepta-scott wrote:

Tekka wrote:Please fix your quotes... It's getting harder and harder to follow who's saying what in this thread. =(

I know tekka and I apologize. Truth is I dont know how to do that yet. The cpu at the coffee house I have to use is sooooo slow that it is a terrible pain to post a simple thread let alone trying to quote and submit my opinions in there and all that.
I tried to put the other persons comments in the middle of two {quote} things, add some space and then offer my rebutal. Im going to try and get someone to show me how to do it the right way though. Also Im simply going to stop engaging in all this run in circle debating. That ought to fix it.

No worries, I realize you're new. I find it easier to just do a block quote and then outline a response in complete paragraphs.

When a thread starts going quote by quote like this it starts to irk me, but that's my problem not your problem, so no need to worry I guess.

Don't forget to use the closing [/quote] at the end of quotes. That's the next step in fixing it.

decepta-scott wrote:I know tekka and I apologize. Truth is I dont know how to do that yet. The cpu at the coffee house I have to use is sooooo slow that it is a terrible pain to post a simple thread let alone trying to quote and submit my opinions in there and all that.
It took me an hour to post that. A FRIGGEN HOUR. Now I learn that it cant be understood.
I tried to put the other persons comments in the middle of two {quote} things, add some space and then offer my rebutal. Im going to try and get someone to show me how to do it the right way though. Also Im simply going to stop engaging in all this run in circle debating. That ought to fix it.

when you put the other persons comments in the middle use this at the end [/quote]
the slash ends the quote

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:thanks for the info and links, but I would like to confirm it with the episodev itself.

If you had told me tyou saw/heard it yourself I would have less doubt since I trust you, but I have seen bad info on those sites in the past.

I tried searching for the episode myself, but couldn't find it either. And I really don't wanna have to go purchase the Japanese DVD release of Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers 2010 in order to do so.

EDIT: I found an audio-only stream of the episode. At about 4:40, Daniel starts to list off the names of the deceased Cybertrons, and he says "Aianhaido", "Rachetto", "Puroru", and "Doraggu" (Drag A.K.A. Huffer).

kool, finally a solid answer.

Thank you very much.

Sabrblade wrote:Prowl looks more blue than gray here to me.

what ever color you want to call it, his color faded as he died.

Also, he ins't engulfed in shadow. The front of his legs and feet, as well as the tops of his hands and upper arms, are clearly still being well lit, and yet they're not the same color they were in the top pic. Compare Prowl's white knee/upper arm/hands in the top pic to his darker-yet-still-lit-by-light knee/upper arm/hands in the bottom pic.

exactly my point

decepta-scott wrote:We were told to stop bickering. If you are going to continue though I see no reason why I cannot.

Bickering is defined as
" To engage in a petty, bad-tempered quarrel; squabble"

as long as you dont insult and take things to a personal level again debating should be fine.

Theres a close up scene of galvatron panting for air after unicron chokes him even though these bots have no lungs. Theres your proof that important close up shots do not equal error free.

It might help your arguments if they were on point.I never said "error free".Besides, he looked like he was in pain to me, not painting for air.

Like it or not prowl wasnt deep dark grey like prime was.

Not all of Prime went deep gray.His legs stayed light in color.Theres no reason to assume "white" would fade much or at all.
The light bar is glass and was dull red, Primes glass didn't fade, it just got dull.

He started out with what is totally a shadow on his red horn. He comes closer to the camera and falls back. It isnt until he is almost off the screen,roughly three frames that he is engulfed in shadow.

nice try but no cigar

the fade in his face and horns was slow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koQY7s9dgn8

You realy think they said "when we kill these bots we arent gonna have em die right off.

I dont care if thats how they planned it, its how it worked out.

(even though they were never shown without color)

Prowl's horns and face faded slowly
Ratchet is seen with color in one shot and faded in the next.

100% fact.

Thats because he wasnt ment to change color.

but his leg glass did become dull in color, just like Primes glass, just like Prowls light bar.

Primes glass went from a light clear blue to a med/dark - dark grey

no it didnt, it dulled to a very light gray if anything, just like Prowls legs.

Now look at the following scene with megs foot and your oh so important black hand. Those bots are in COMPLETELY different places than they were in the previous scene.

Yes, Ironhide and ratchet is positions are reversed.

But Prowl is still closer tyo Brawn, Ironhide is still closer to ratchet.

So again, how am I wrong?

Or it could also be an alternant explination of your black hand and two frames of shadow.

For the black hand maybe, but Prowls fade was deliberate, it happened slowly and continued to be the case as he fell.

LOL!!! The thing had a huge hole in it,

it had a huge hole in it the entire ride to earth....whats your point?

it was under heavy fire,

Hotrods shots were hardly "heavy".

it had two explosions the second of which ignited half the ship on fire and it was on its way down.

you need to re-watch the film and check your facts
the ship had 1 exposition.
and as far as we casn tell only that compartment was ignited on fire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE149cy39uU
time fram 0:36

There ya go. Admittion that even the writers couldnt tell you that you are wrong.

And?I make no attempt at saying otherwise.I've said it many times before.Writer/creator comments and intent isint canon evidence.

If thats what they wanted they should have made it clear beyond any doubt.

I dont need to come over and have dinner with you and the fam to know what kind of person you are.

If that wasnt enough I can tell what kind of person you are because of the way you insist on force feeding us all the praise youve recieved on this sight by adding it as your personal quote.disrespectful comments and judgements.

There you are again resorting to personal attacks and making personal,disrespectful comments and judgements.

Since it was you who started this by ripping my butt for no reason without knowing what kind of person I am

So, giving you the plain and simple facts is "ripping your butt"?
And if I was the one that started it why was it you, by name, that was singled out to stop insulting?
Think about it.

Your words can be reapplied to you. You did initiate this stovokor. Why dont you go drag your post up here and show it? That ought to settle that.

Heres the post

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Sorry but I repeat, theres no SOLID evidence that he was dead.

Laying on the ground with damage to his body is not solid evidence he died.Unlike every confirmed death in the film, Wheeljack and Windcharger did not fade to gray.

They still retained their colors.

So, if you think you can provide Solid, undeniable evidence from the narrative that they died, please do.I've been waiting over 26 years for someone to do that.

Theres nothing there thats disrespectful, nothing that is insulting.I just asked you to back up your claim with solid evidence from the narrative.

ROTFLMFAO!!!! LOL!!! OMG stovokor, Thats just another way of saying he didnt die. LOL!!! You are too much bro really.

no, its saying neither, its just acknowledging the possibility of both equally.

You really should read more carefully.

If I havent then neither have you.

Prowls horns faded slowly, Ratchets had did fade.

Those were my claims, and I proved them.

Yes. The difference is that your comments are correct because theyre yours and mine are wrong because they arent yours. Right?

the difference is I was careful to only make claims I could back up with actual evidence from the film.

you took your views and opinions and presented them as "FACTS".....that you couldnt back up

I never said that.

Yes you did.And heres the proof.

decepta-scott wrote:Oh he was quite dead.If you blink you will miss it but there a scene right before hot rad, arcee, springer, kup and daniel slide the launcher into place to fight devestator where arcee is dragging the fallen bots out of the way. Among them were wind charger and wheel jack. They were both very dead.

Oh he was quite dead
They were both very dead.
The way you worded those claims makes them statements of FACT.

I saw you thought otherwise

I have said this several times already....I personally dont think otherwise.I like to think they died.

But theres no solid evidence from within the narrative that they did.

There sure as hell isnt any evidence that they are alive either.

I never claimed there was.

Althou there is some to suggest Windcharger is alive, but I consider it an error.

Who said that anyway?

Its a very common response in these types of debates on fan sites.

Im not going to respond to this anymore.

Didnt you say something to that effect already?

dp

Decepti-Scott, you're not understanding what Sto means when he says, "There's no solid evidence from the film's narrative to confirm that they died." By this, he is NOT saying that they DIDN'T die, but rather, just that the film does not openly declare their deaths. It IMPLIES that they died, but does not verbal SAY so.

Sto's claim of a lack of evidence to the confirmation of their deaths in just the film alone is a general statement. You are misinterpreting this as though he were instead saying "They did not die," which he is not saying at all.

Sto's claim of "There's no solid evidence from the film's narrative to confirm that they died," only means that we can't say yes or no either way without consulting external material--meaning info from stuff outside of the movie.

The statement that you think he's saying (but isn't) of, "They did not die," gives a definite answer to their fates. Sto, however, is merely saying that there is NO definite answer to the fates. He's not saying that they did or didn't die, but that we cannot say for certain what their fates were from just watching the film alone. We can IMPLY that they died, but we cannot say that they DID die and take it as a fact from the movie alone.

Long story short, Sto is not saying one way or the other about whether or not they died, but instead that the movie is simply AMBIGUOUS on this matter, giving NO answer one way or the other at all.

There is no right or wrong answer. There's just NO answer period.

Sabrblade wrote:Decepti-Scott, you're not understanding what Sto means when he says, "There's no solid evidence from the film's narrative to confirm that they died." By this, he is NOT saying that they DIDN'T die, but rather, just that the film does not openly declare their deaths. It IMPLIES that5 they died, but does not verbal SAY so.

Sto's claim of a lack of evidence to the confirmation of their deaths in just the film alone is a general statement. You are misinterpreting this as though he were instead saying "They did not die," which he is not saying at all.

Sto's claim of "There's no solid evidence from the film's narrative to confirm that they died," only means that we can't say yes or no either way without consulting external material--meaning info from stuff outside of the movie.

The statement that you think he's saying (but isn't) of, "They did not die," gives a definite answer to their fates. Sto, however, is merely saying that there is NO definite answer to the fates. He's not saying that they did or didn't die, but that we cannot say for certain what their fates were from just watching the film alone. We can IMPLY that they died, but we cannot say that they DID die and take it as a fact from the movie alone.

Long story short, Sto is not saying one way or the other about whether or not they died, but instead that the movie is simply AMBIGUOUS on this matter, giving NO answer one way or the other at all.

There is no right or wrong answer. There's just NO answer period.

thank you very much