Leonardo wrote:Take your lips off my pipe!
Rodimus Prime wrote:
And Va'al, I have to disagree with you on 1 point. In this case, being a pacifist does make the character a pushover. When it comes to facing off against someone like Tarn when his life is on the line, it's either kill or be killed, and if Megatron was a pacifist, he wouldn't have a chance. But the old Megatron? That would be (or is, I haven't read the issue yet) a showdown worth including in the issue.
Is it just me, or is that a sick smile creeping onto Megatron's face? Like he's enjoying the pain and brutality? Yeah, it's probably just me...Dr Va'al wrote:
Are you referring to the end of Revenge of The Sith or the end of A New Hope? In Sith, there was nothing pacifist about their fight. Yes, Obi-Wan refrained from actually killing Vader, but he did dismember him and leave him to die. If he was truly compassionate, he wouldn't have left him there to be found by the Emperor and complete his turn into a Sith. In some ways, that's even more sadistic than if he just chopped his head off and ended him then and there. In Hope, choosing not to fight was the more pacifist option for Obi-Wan, but I think you're comparing apples to oranges, for 2 reasons. Obi-Wan was portrayed as a benevolent character (despite my previous mention of his cruelty to Vader in Sith) from the beginning, one who never wavered in his beliefs. Megatron was not the same way. He may not have started out truly evil, but had been transformed (pardon the pun) into an evil character, much like Vader, not Obi-Wan. And Obi-Wan was at peace with ending his physical form, as he knew he would be 1 with The Force. Megatron doesn't have this option. If he allows Tarn to kill him, as far as we know, that's it. He's dead. I don't remember anything being mentioned about the afterlife in MTMTE.Also, think of the Obi-Wan/Vader confrontation
They threw the Emperor into the center of the Death Star's power source, resulting in a massive explosion, killing the Emperor and all the Stormtroopers stationed on the Death Star. That's not non-violent. However, much like Megatron's situation, The Emperor didn't give Luke or Vader a choice. It was kill or be killed.or even Luke/Vader at the end, when the two Jedi side are yes confronting the Sith, but both resign to a pacifist/non-violent solution - one dies, one has external intervention, but I wouldn't call them pushovers by a long shot.
Okay, so we're speaking of the confrontation in A New Hope. I have yet to read issue 51, so I will take your word on the similarities. All my points were based on my assumptions of what would happen and what I would like to happen. And yeah, Megatron is a pacifist, now. But I go back to my original point, and reference the comic cover you posted as well: what about when Tarn puts him in a corner and there's only 1 way out?Dr Va'al wrote:Yes, there are some significant differences, but I don't think narratively we're that far off: mentor who had something cruel about him, teaching a student who takes things a bit too far, the latter wears a mask which may or may not have to do with the former (mutilation vs belief, as far as we know), the ex-master now a non-violent (so to speak for Megatron, he still directs violent action in the series even after his decision) pacifist, with very little choice - as you rightly point out.
Rodimus Prime wrote:Okay, so we're speaking of the confrontation in A New Hope. I have yet to read issue 51, so I will take your word on the similarities. All my points were based on my assumptions of what would happen and what I would like to happen. And yeah, Megatron is a pacifist, now. But I go back to my original point, and reference the comic cover you posted as well: what about when Tarn puts him in a corner and there's only 1 way out?Dr Va'al wrote:Yes, there are some significant differences, but I don't think narratively we're that far off: mentor who had something cruel about him, teaching a student who takes things a bit too far, the latter wears a mask which may or may not have to do with the former (mutilation vs belief, as far as we know), the ex-master now a non-violent (so to speak for Megatron, he still directs violent action in the series even after his decision) pacifist, with very little choice - as you rightly point out.
Dr Va'al wrote:I don't see anything not badass about new version, especially after MTMTE51 - revieewwwww: idw-transformers-more-than-meets-the-eye-51-discussion-thread-p1776423.php#p1776423
A bit of a longer answer, still not spoiling comics:
Pacifism does not make him a pushover, and what he is going through right now is actually quite a test of will, strength and control that he would probably just have blasted himself out of just a couple of months ago. I like this new direction. There's an actual path of redemption that has wider repercussions (Tarn, Getaway and his side), rather than the initial 'oh ok then, he's a fascist tyrant that we somehow now accept as good'.
They're working at making him feel things, making me feel things about him, and using the narrative to show at least two of those sides too. And it works, for me.
Leonardo wrote:Take your lips off my pipe!
If this will be the case, what is the point of his current arc of character development? How will he find redemption if he is killed, and especially if he lets himself get killed? The only way it would count for something is if he died saving either some or all of the Lost Light's crew. Hell, even saving 1 single bot would redeem him somewhat, as it's something the old Megatron would never do. I still think your Obi-Wan analogy is comparing apples and oranges, as Obi-Wan allowed himself to be struck down, knowing he would become 1 with the Force. If there was no afterlife for the Jedi, do you think he would have just stood there and took the killing swing anyway, or fought until either he or Vader were dead?Dr Va'al wrote:Personally (and I've seen and heard this around the fanosphere too), I'd still go with the Obi-Wanness: he won't come out of it alive. There's been a lot of redemption building, I wouldn't put it past Roberts to remove him from the game before that comes to full fruition.
Leonardo wrote:Take your lips off my pipe!
Ironhidensh wrote:So. Time has passed, and things have happened.
Megatron of (semi) old came back, and ass was smashed. Then, he kinda of abandoned his power again, proving that the enternal struggle within, despite his scheming, is real.
We also saw, through his reactions to the death of Ravage (I'm still salty about that one) and the arrival of Terminus, that Megatron really can and really does care for others.
Now, he has been dropped into an alternate universe that literally is every single thing he fought against before loosing his way. Where does he go from here?
Va'al wrote:Ironhidensh wrote:So. Time has passed, and things have happened.
Megatron of (semi) old came back, and ass was smashed. Then, he kinda of abandoned his power again, proving that the enternal struggle within, despite his scheming, is real.
We also saw, through his reactions to the death of Ravage (I'm still salty about that one) and the arrival of Terminus, that Megatron really can and really does care for others.
Now, he has been dropped into an alternate universe that literally is every single thing he fought against before loosing his way. Where does he go from here?
I will answer, and look forward to the conversation, post- Lost Light #2. Given what happens in the book.
Leonardo wrote:Take your lips off my pipe!
Ironhidensh wrote:Va'al wrote:I will answer, and look forward to the conversation, post- Lost Light #2. Given what happens in the book.
You are a filthy dirty tease, you know that? Maybe Burn was right about you.
Leonardo wrote:Take your lips off my pipe!
Leonardo wrote:Take your lips off my pipe!
Ironhidensh wrote:Well then. Not quite sure how I feel about that.
Va'al wrote:Ironhidensh wrote:Well then. Not quite sure how I feel about that.
Ha! Elaborate?
Leonardo wrote:Take your lips off my pipe!
Return to Transformers Cartoons and Comics Forum
Registered users: -Kanrabat-, Bing [Bot], Fires_Of_Inferno, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], MSN [Bot], Overcracker