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Sabrblade wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

First-Aid wrote:The ONLY thing I want more than Transtech is Weird Al Yankovic doing the Super Bowl Halftime Show.

Only if it's all polka songs with the grand finale of Dare to Be Stupid. They can even take the Junkion dancing scene from TF:TM and put it on the big screen.

No no. Have the football players themselves reenact the Junkion dance scene on the field. One team being the Autobots, the other team being the Junkions.

I was thinking the original artists would come out for the songs and do them with Al, but this is a better idea...

Sabrblade wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

First-Aid wrote:The ONLY thing I want more than Transtech is Weird Al Yankovic doing the Super Bowl Halftime Show.

Only if it's all polka songs with the grand finale of Dare to Be Stupid. They can even take the Junkion dancing scene from TF:TM and put it on the big screen.

No no. Have the football players themselves reenact the Junkion dance scene on the field. One team being the Autobots, the other team being the Junkions.

As for Beast Wars, was it ever explained (either by the creators or in story) why those specific changes were made to the characters at the beginning of season 2? Like, why did Megatron get hip turbines, or why Rattrap got wheels? And why Blackarachnia, Waspinator, Inferno, Dinobot and Rhinox were unaffected?

Rodimus Prime wrote:As for Beast Wars, was it ever explained (either by the creators or in story) why those specific changes were made to the characters at the beginning of season 2? Like, why did Megatron get hip turbines, or why Rattrap got wheels?

The answer is... Because that what the toys were like and the cartoon models had to reflect that.

In other words, "To sell toys."

Rodimus Prime wrote:And why Blackarachnia, Waspinator, Inferno, Dinobot and Rhinox were unaffected?

It's commonly theorized that Waspinator, Dinobot, and Rhinox were shielded from the quantum surge since they were each inside a CR Chamber (or CR Tank in Waspinator's case) at the time. Meanwhile, Tigatron, Airazor, Blackarachnia, and Inferno (all born on Earth from stasis pods instead of coming from Cybertron already up and active) were mysteriously unaffected.

But the real reason that only some were Transmetalized and some weren't was because Mainframe's budget only afforded them so few new models per season. In just three episodes, we got new models for Cheetor, Rattrap, Megatron, Tarantulas, and Optimus, plus two newcomer models for Silverbolt and Quickstrike. That's seven new models that needed to be made right out of the gate for season 2, and half the total main-character models that season 1 ended up having. And an eighth one was not far behind in the arrival of Rampage just five episodes later.

It's no wonder they had to kill off Terrosaur and Scorponok in the first episode, remove Tigatron and Airazor from the show (first by sending them off on a journey in the second episode and then bringing them back midway through the season just to have them abducted by the aliens and never heard from again until near the end of season 3), and then kill off Dinobot right after Rampage was added to the cast. Mainframe had to make room for all the new character models in order to stick to the tight budget for CGI television at the time.

Though, they must have either gotten a bigger budget or figured out how to balance it better for season 3 since they were able to add Depth Charge, Transmetal 2 Dinobot, and Tigerhawk to the model count without needing to kill off any other main characters before the series finale, on top of creating even newer models for Optimal Optimus, Cheetor, Blackarachnia, and Megatron, for a total of seven more new models for that season.

Rodimus Prime wrote:
As for Beast Wars, was it ever explained (either by the creators or in story) why those specific changes were made to the characters at the beginning of season 2? Like, why did Megatron get hip turbines, or why Rattrap got wheels?

The more interesting, less cynical and obvious take. The "vehicle" modes represented a similar altmode of each bot, prior to the Beast Wars. Megatron being some kind of osprey, Tarantulas a bike etc
Cheetor being an rookie flier, could also be accredited by this theory. Since it was a form of flight that was new to him. You'll note Primal didn't have the same issues. Suggesting a confidence with his rocket surfboard. That of an experienced flier.

First-Aid wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

First-Aid wrote:The ONLY thing I want more than Transtech is Weird Al Yankovic doing the Super Bowl Halftime Show.

Only if it's all polka songs with the grand finale of Dare to Be Stupid. They can even take the Junkion dancing scene from TF:TM and put it on the big screen.

No no. Have the football players themselves reenact the Junkion dance scene on the field. One team being the Autobots, the other team being the Junkions.

I was thinking the original artists would come out for the songs and do them with Al, but this is a better idea...

had a breakthrough last night on this subject. Al could do a new original polka made up of songs that the last 10-15 halftime show performers did during their shows, synchronized on video to those performances! And Left Shark could be a background dancer.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The more interesting, less cynical and obvious take. The "vehicle" modes represented a similar altmode of each bot, prior to the Beast Wars. Megatron being some kind of osprey, Tarantulas a bike etc

Source?

Sabrblade wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The more interesting, less cynical and obvious take. The "vehicle" modes represented a similar altmode of each bot, prior to the Beast Wars. Megatron being some kind of osprey, Tarantulas a bike etc

Source?

Could be mistaken, but I think it’s all new's head cannon

ZeroWolf wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The more interesting, less cynical and obvious take. The "vehicle" modes represented a similar altmode of each bot, prior to the Beast Wars. Megatron being some kind of osprey, Tarantulas a bike etc

Source?

Could be mistaken, but I think it’s all new's head cannon

Yeah, Roddy was asking about official answers, not theories.

Alright, I figured as much about the show creators having to adhere to toy models. I guess it's a discussion for the toy forum, but I was really getting at wanting to know why those design choices were made for those characters.

And after reading Sabrblade's response, I realize just how much the show animators really had to deal with. Switching out characters in the course of the show made it seem less than what it actually was, but that is quite a few character models they had to animate. I still prefer Terrorsaur and Scorponok over Silverbolt and Quickstrike, but otherwise it's quite an accomplishment for the writers to find a place for each character in the show that doesn't feel like they're being neglected.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Alright, I figured as much about the show creators having to adhere to toy models. I guess it's a discussion for the toy forum, but I was really getting at wanting to know why those design choices were made for those characters.

Well, I don't see any harm in addressing the toy matter here since it's still related to the show, but in a way, the Transmetal toys were like that for the same reason that the whole Beast Era was the way it was: Because Kenner/Hasbro was so willing to be so experimental at the time. Generation 2 had revived the brand with much more of the same things that had made Transformers great when it first started out in the 1980s, but in the 1990s that wasn't good enough. Different times came with different trends. Despite making some really great new toys that helped pave the way for the future (like the Cyberjets and Laser Optimus Prime), G2 ultimately nearly killed Transformers for good.

Hasbro felt that a drastic change was needed save the brand from death, and so gave it to Kenner to try something completely new. The result was Beast Wars, with the new gimmick being that each Transformer turned into organic beast modes instead of the mechanical ones of the past. This carried on for another year before yet another experimentation was applied in 1998 with the Transmetals, robotic beasts with organic-looking robot modes. A second experiment that year was Fuzors, organic beast that were hybrid fusions of two animals. 1999 then experimented with Transmetals 2, mutant beasts that resembled cybernetic fusions of the organic and mechanical. And finally Beast Machines went the furthest in these experiments with creating designs for both beasts and "living vehicles" that were truly alien and otherworldly, being as far removed from resembling Earth-like designs as they could be while still remaining recognizable enough for kids to tell what each beast and vehicle was supposed to be.

In a sense, the whole Beast Era was one dramatic experiment after the other, really trying to push the limits of just how far Kenner and Hasbro could take things in so different a direction (even the shows' CG animation was a still very new thing at the time) before ultimately returning to the more traditional formula of Earth vehicles afterward, with then-new CEO Brian Goldner wanting such a return in the form of Armada (which also capitalized on both the Pokemon craze at the time and the anime boom of the early 2000s).

Rodimus Prime wrote:And after reading Sabrblade's response, I realize just how much the show animators really had to deal with. Switching out characters in the course of the show made it seem less than what it actually was, but that is quite a few character models they had to animate. I still prefer Terrorsaur and Scorponok over Silverbolt and Quickstrike, but otherwise it's quite an accomplishment for the writers to find a place for each character in the show that doesn't feel like they're being neglected.

Indeed. And this was all for a show whose writing team was mostly flying by the seat of their pants most of the time.

Sabrblade wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The more interesting, less cynical and obvious take. The "vehicle" modes represented a similar altmode of each bot, prior to the Beast Wars. Megatron being some kind of osprey, Tarantulas a bike etc

Source?

Could be mistaken, but I think it’s all new's head cannon

Yeah, Roddy was asking about official answers, not theories.

Take also means an opinion or assessment

Didn't think I'd need to explain that? But missing out one word can change the context of a paragraph, I guess. That assessment not being based on theory or head canon, but the visual narrative presented in the show. Subtle cues that inform without exposition.

The real world answer to Roddys question comes down to the brief assigned to the designers. Their interpretations and inspirations taken from it etc Information that unfortunately, was likely much more readily available back in 1997 than in 2022.
The Beast Era didn't really have that much in concept art books or supplementary material at all. As we're all aware.

Upon first becoming a Transmetal and discovering his jets, Cheetor acted like he'd never flown before in his life. It would make no sense for him to have had a flying altmode back on Cybertron.

That kind of thinking is what led to such things as "Tigatron and Airazor were previously alive back on Cybertron before they were born on Earth" and "Optimus Primal and Megatron are veterans who actually fought back in the Great War alongside their ancient ancestors" that certain expanded universe media made use of.

It was the speed boost he needed to compensate for, not strictly the flying itself. The show never really pushed how fast he could go at full speed, in Season One. The speed should have been enhanced by going Transmetal. But note after first engaging his thrustors. He didn't test those capabilities again, onscreen. The only other time he utilised his speed was during his TM 2 form.

Sabrblade wrote:That kind of thinking is what led to such things as "Tigatron and Airazor were previously alive back on Cybertron before they were born on Earth" and "Optimus Primal and Megatron are veterans who actually fought back in the Great War alongside their ancient ancestors" that certain expanded universe media made use of.

Except Protoforms are only that. Optimus Primal and Megatron were not soldiers, let alone veterans. This stuff is shown and stated in the show.

The expanded universe Beast Era stuff is the very definition of fanon, without much substance or merit beyond that. Much like all those redecos of other figures into pre-Beast Wars Bots. That miss the point entirely.

Right, and those were BAD ideas based on other writers misinterpreting dialogue and behaviors depicted in the cartoon to suit their own wants and desires for the characters, going against what the cartoon was trying to get across. Cheetor is very unskilled at flying all throughout "Aftermath", showing that he's only just then learning how to fly for the first time ever. Any other interpretation is grasping at straws in the same way that those other ideas I mentioned already did.

Transmetal Cheetor never runs. Only using the jets. Every other TM character does at least walk around in their beast mode. Therefore if everyone else does it, the omission wasn't a budget thing. It's not "clutching at straws" to perceive non-linear visual narrative. Just takes not viewing everything through a strictly insular perspective.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Transmetal Cheetor never runs. Only using the jets. Every other TM character does at least walk around in their beast mode. Therefore if everyone else does it, the omission wasn't a budget thing. It's not "clutching at straws" to perceive non-linear visual narrative. Just takes not viewing everything through a strictly insular perspective.

What are you talking about? Of course he doesn't run when he can fly. He chooses to fly instead of run because he now actually has that option. He flies because he wants to! But when he first got that ability, he sucked at it! He had to learn how do it properly and get the hang of it!

If he had always been a flier back on Cybertron, it makes him look like an idiot always struggling and crashing when he first gets back that ability as a Transmetal. The most obvious take from all of that is that he was never a flier before he first became a Transmetal. You're looking for backstory where there is none, just like the guys who foolishly put Tigatron and Airazor on Cybertron before the Beast Wars.

Also, he did occasionally travel on foot in Beast Mode. "Cutting Edge" comes to mind as one example.

Sabrblade wrote:What are you talking about? Of course he doesn't run when he can fly. He chooses to fly instead of run because he now actually has that option. He flies because he wants to! But when he first got that ability, he sucked at it! He had to learn how do it properly and get the hang of it!

He doesn't run because the first experience with the thrustors alarmed him enough to not want to try. Again, everyone else found alternate functions and applications for their TM Modes EG Rattrap and "Maximum scorch", wherein he was testing the limits of his mode the entire time. Cheetor just stuck to that initial rudimentary flight ability.

Sabrblade wrote:If he had always been a flier back on Cybertron, it makes him look like an idiot always struggling and crashing when he first gets back that ability as a Transmetal.

You're forgetting the coming of age arc his character is on, throughout the entire show. His progressing maturity. Just for a minute. Think about his personality shift from Season One, to TM, to TM2. Think about why the Transmetal characterisation is so muted, in contrast to the other two.

(Still mourning Transtech)

First-Aid wrote::-(

(Still mourning Transtech)

Pester Hasbro to make this retool in Selects.

Sabrblade wrote:

First-Aid wrote::-(

(Still mourning Transtech)

Pester Hasbro to make this retool in Selects.

I think there's a little pee coming out of me....

First-Aid wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

First-Aid wrote:(Still mourning Transtech)

Pester Hasbro to make this retool in Selects.

I think there's a little pee coming out of me....

Well, if you have to go, go in that thread.

The "Check Your Sources" Twitter (@20thDan) has received preproduction materials from Beast Machines that show us an inside look into what some of the earliest ideas were for the series, going all the way back to when it was originally known as "Beast Hunters". 20thDan has uploaded three documents in PDF form for everyone and anyone to download in each Tweet.

First up is the original story treatment for Beast Hunters written by Marv Wolfman. This gives a very primitive overview of the series, with a bunch of ideas that seem familiar but very different from the finalized version. We see Jetstorm's original name of "Skybolt", the Oracle's original name of "Oracom", and several plot points that definitely did not make it into the show.

Though, the text of this document is woefully inconsistent about whether it's Thrust or Skybolt whom Blackarachnia suspects to have Silverbolt's spark, so just know that the text will continuously flip-flop on that plot point without warning.

Also, before reading this 12-page document, know that some of the pages are out of order. I recommend reading each page in this order: 1, 2, 4, 6, 3, 5, 7-12.

The treatment can be found here: https://twitter.com/20thDan/status/1695541111421583425
https://mega.nz/file/Ai92jRhJ#XY3bowslMKo_3HrydcjgOR7zDtZFRVMB12nEfD5Q8No


Next up is the Beast Machines story bible. This 43-page document covers a lot of familiar ground, outlining the first season of the show and its cast of characters as we know them, but also contains a few bits of information that either didn't make it into the show at all, or kinda did but weren't really explained or explored that much onscreen.

Plus, this document also has some very preliminary ideas for Season 2 that vary wildly from how the actual second season turned out. Some might even call these early Season 2 ideas downright insane. You just have to read it for yourself to believe them.

The story bible PDF can be found here: https://twitter.com/20thDan/status/1695932731249869276
https://mega.nz/file/MyVyBagT#07sbL6htEk0m6OnJZlRKpQ3HrdFePzuYMApg7neamyk


Lastly is an outline and development notes for the story arc of Season 2. Like the other two, this 7-page document is full of early ideas that didn't all make it into the show. Each episode is briefly outlined and some requests from the higher ups are noted, some of which seem even head-scratching for any Transformers series, let alone Beast Machines.

This Season 2 outline can be found here: https://twitter.com/20thDan/status/1696297823048790079
https://mega.nz/file/8ylimRID#CVw5Ybk6U2oD7t3EbSE6prckyfyHtCXKd7F37o7rABE

Before clicking on the links, one question: Was Nightscream ever envisioned as a better character?

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Before clicking on the links, one question: Was Nightscream ever envisioned as a better character?

Debatable.

Sabrblade wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Before clicking on the links, one question: Was Nightscream ever envisioned as a better character?

Debatable.

Good answer!