The Energon Pub

by **STINGRAY749** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:38 pm

i can see the humans being disliked along side energon ironhide. For me personally i liked the series (besides the humans and the ovbious bots). So there were bad characters but a good story line.

News Credits: 37 · by **SlyTF1** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:40 pm

I don't hate it. I love Armada and Energon and Cybertron are ok.

by **STINGRAY749** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:44 pm

SlyTF1 wrote:I don't hate it. I love Armada and Energon and Cybertron are ok.

ya i agree with you there they were some of the best series in away considering that we got a new sreamer and even new guys

News Credits: 10 · by **Phil** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:46 pm

I was sort of meh on the Unicron trilogy cartoons, they weren't terrible but I felt they could have been better. The A/E comics though, I really enjoyed. I loved the story in them, especially once Unicron and his heralds started coming in to it. Armada Megatron versus G1 Galvatron was pretty cool.

News Credits: 37 · by **SlyTF1** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:18 pm

Legendary Megatron wrote:I was sort of meh on the Unicron trilogy cartoons, they weren't terrible but I felt they could have been better. The A/E comics though, I really enjoyed. I loved the story in them, especially once Unicron and his heralds started coming in to it. Armada Megatron versus G1 Galvatron was pretty cool.

Yeah, Unicron was the best part. We need more Unicron IMO. He's not as overused as people think. He was only in G1, Beast Wars, Armada and Energon. He was only mentioned in Cybertron. That's like saying Megatron is overused. He was in EVERY series.

News Credits: 10 · by **Phil** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:22 pm

SlyTF1 wrote:
Legendary Megatron wrote:I was sort of meh on the Unicron trilogy cartoons, they weren't terrible but I felt they could have been better. The A/E comics though, I really enjoyed. I loved the story in them, especially once Unicron and his heralds started coming in to it. Armada Megatron versus G1 Galvatron was pretty cool.

Yeah, Unicron was the best part. We need more Unicron IMO. He's not as overused as people think. He was only in G1, Beast Wars, Armada and Energon. He was only mentioned in Cybertron. That's like saying Megatron is overused. He was in EVERY series.

I don't think Unicron is overused, as long as it's done right. They gave him a truly epic feeling in the A/E comic, with that one minicon (whatever his name was) warning of his coming, then Generation 1 heralds, which again was awesome. And I loved in Energon when he corrupted the beastformers in to his new heralds. I'd like to see more stuff like that.

News Credits: 37 · by **SlyTF1** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:33 pm

Legendary Megatron wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:
Legendary Megatron wrote:I was sort of meh on the Unicron trilogy cartoons, they weren't terrible but I felt they could have been better. The A/E comics though, I really enjoyed. I loved the story in them, especially once Unicron and his heralds started coming in to it. Armada Megatron versus G1 Galvatron was pretty cool.

Yeah, Unicron was the best part. We need more Unicron IMO. He's not as overused as people think. He was only in G1, Beast Wars, Armada and Energon. He was only mentioned in Cybertron. That's like saying Megatron is overused. He was in EVERY series.

I don't think Unicron is overused, as long as it's done right. They gave him a truly epic feeling in the A/E comic, with that one minicon (whatever his name was) warning of his coming, then Generation 1 heralds, which again was awesome. And I loved in Energon when he corrupted the beastformers in to his new heralds. I'd like to see more stuff like that.

Well, hopefully someone will continue the movies after DOTM and give Unicron a movie counterpart so he can do those things! Or maybe TF Prime will do that. They already mentioned him in that show.

News Credits: 10 · by **Phil** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:51 pm

Yea, he's been strongly hinted at in Prime so I'm sure it's only a matter of time till we actually see him in the show.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:10 am

t$money$49 wrote:i can see the humans being disliked along side energon ironhide. For me personally i liked the series (besides the humans and the ovbious bots). So there were bad characters but a good story line.

There are numerous factors that went into the dislike of these series, primarily their cartoons.

For Armada, the biggest criticisms are its widely-noticeable animation errors, the poor/rushed quality of its English dub script, the Pokemon-esque "Gotta Catch'em All" style of its initial story arcs, and the time it came out.

The animation of Armada was absolutely littered with flaws and errors; evidence of a very rushed production. Many of the more blatant errors and the overall quatlity of the animation were fixed for the Japanese version of the show, Micron Densetsu, but the English version still remains plagued by these issues.

The dialogue script for the English dub was atrocious. Many lines were translated absurdly wonky and so many characters got wrong names and new names with little to no consistency. Plus, there was a ton of bland-written lines where characters would continuously state the obvious and just go "Uhhh..." whenever their mouths hung open.

The style of the first few story arcs were formatted in a "capture the Mini-Con" style that turned off many at the time since Pokemon was still popular and thus this practice was viewed as an attempt to copy that series.

And when this show first came out, several other rebooted classic cartoons like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Masters of the Universe were also released around the same time. And many fans of the original series that these were rebooted from viewed the originals to be the superior and definitive versions. And thus, Armada got caught in the crossfire of the then newest phase of GEEWUN. :roll:

For Energon... there's too much to go into! Just about everything about this show, from production, to storytelling, to character development, to dialogue script dubbing, were just a big mess! Read this to see for yourself why the Energon/Super Link anime is considered to be one of, if not the, worst Transformers cartoons.

For both the Armada and Energon Dreamwave comics, it's a case of these not being as widely known as the cartoons were. And those who knew of their existence probably didn't know any better and just assumed that these comics would be just as flawed as their cartoons and so didn't bother to read them. Not to mention that there was also a new G1 comic released by Dreamwave at the same time. And with the renewed GEEWUN feelings lurking about, it's a safe bet to assume that these were the more preferred comics over the Armada/Energon ones.

For the Cybertron cartoon, it's gotta be a case of not even giving it a chance after the what went on in Armada and Energon.

Plus, there's the matter of it originally being its own rebooted series not having any ties to Armada and/or Energon, but was then dubbed in English as such. Fans of the original Japanese version, Galaxy Force, would dislike these dubbing changes made to fit it in with the previous two series. But then Takara would eventually get on the retcon bandwagon and decide that Galaxy Force is connected to Micron Densetsu and Super Link, just like how Cybertron was made to connect with Armada and Energon.

But another issue with Cybertron was its heavy use of stock footage. The dub eventually tried to make this more bearable by having real-time conversations occur during them, or even inserting some in-jokes about how they always transform the same way over and over again, but it wasn't enough to fully save the show.

Granted, Cybertron was arguably the best dubbed of the three series, containing the least errors and inaccuracies, as well as trying to fix or even improve some the series's weird moments by trying to make sense out of them.

SlyTF1 wrote:Yeah, Unicron was the best part. We need more Unicron IMO. He's not as overused as people think. He was only in G1, Beast Wars, Armada and Energon. He was only mentioned in Cybertron.

Correction. Unicron has appeared in all of the following:
* Generation 1

The Transformers: The Movie
G1 cartoon Season 3
Marvel U.S. G1 comics
Marvel UK G1 comics
Dreamwave G1 comics
Devil's Due "G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers" comics

* Beast Wars

Beast Wars cartoon (two cameos)
3H Beast Wars comics
IDW Beast Wars comics

* Beast Wars Neo

Beast Wars Neo anime
Beast Wars Neo manga

* Armada/Micron Densetsu

Armada/Micron Densetsu anime
Armada pack-in comic (the fourth one)
Dreamwave Armada comics
Micron Densetsu "The Linkage" manga
"Transformers" PS2 video game

* Universe (2003)

3H Universe comics
Universe CD-ROM motion comic

* Energon/Super Link

Energon/Super Link anime
Energon pack-in comics
Dreamwave Energon comics

* Cybertron/Galaxy Force

Fun Publications Cybertron comics

* Kiss Players

Kiss Players radio drama
Teletraan 15 Go! Go!

* Movies

Titan UK Movie comics

Nine franchises, spanning three universal clusters, is a lot.

SlyTF1 wrote:That's like saying Megatron is overused. He was in EVERY series.

Except that this arguement is invalid when one considers the following:

There was no "Megatron" in G1 season 3, The Headmasters, Chōjin Masterforce, Victory, Zone, Operation Combination, Beast Wars II, Beast Wars Neo, Car Robots (he was "Gigatron" there, the RiD dub renamed him "Megatron"), Micromaster Collection, Playskool Go-Bots, and Super Link (he was always "Galvatron" and "Galvatron G" originally, the Energon dub renamed him "Megatron" and "Galvatron").
There are many different Megatrons. Each and every Unicron, however, are the same single guy.

Legendary Megatron wrote:I don't think Unicron is overused, as long as it's done right. They gave him a truly epic feeling in the A/E comic, with that one minicon (whatever his name was) warning of his coming, then Generation 1 heralds, which again was awesome. And I loved in Energon when he corrupted the beastformers in to his new heralds. I'd like to see more stuff like that.

The reason Unicron is considered to be so overused is because the years 2003-2006 were so heavily focused on the guy and four years of the same enemy with little extra flare can get tiresome over time. I mean, he shows up, they fight him, the kill him. They resurrected him, they fight him, they kill him. The resurrect him again, they fight him, the kill him. The drama loses its appeal when it's just a repetitive cycle of the guy's rebirth and death.

SlyTF1 wrote:Well, hopefully someone will continue the movies after DOTM and give Unicron a movie counterpart so he can do those things! Or maybe TF Prime will do that. They already mentioned him in that show.

I doubt we'll see him in DOTM, as this movie is said to be old-fashion war fun without any "mystical" elements (which Unicron falls into the category of being).

Though, it is possible he could appear in a later film. But, I wouldn't hold out for there being any more movies after DOTM since Bay's done with them and Hasbro wants to go full force with the Aligned Continuity of WFC/Exodus/Prime into the next decade or so.

That said...

Legendary Megatron wrote:Yea, he's been strongly hinted at in Prime so I'm sure it's only a matter of time till we actually see him in the show.

Actually, it is quite possible for him to show up in the Prime cartoon as there are strong hints of his coming later on, what with the "Blood of Unicron" Dark Energon and Hasbro hinting of the something BIG to come as a HUGE threat closer to the end of season 1.

News Credits: 10 · by **Phil** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:04 am

Sabrblade wrote:
Legendary Megatron wrote:Yea, he's been strongly hinted at in Prime so I'm sure it's only a matter of time till we actually see him in the show.
Actually, it is quite possible for him to show up in the Prime cartoon as there are strong hints of his coming later on, what with the "Blood of Unicron" Dark Energon and Hasbro hinting of the something BIG to come as a HUGE threat closer to the end of season 1.

I know? I feel like what you said was worded in disagreement of what I said but we both agree he's going to show up in Prime.

That link you posted to Energon's flaws though, wow. Makes me wonder how I ever enjoyed it honestly, that is a ridiculous amount of stupidity especially on the creative team's part. I had forgotten about the space cars :BANG_HEAD:

by **Fortress Rodimus** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:52 am

I would say that the reason that it kind of sucked was becasue there is no trilogy. Galaxy Force (Cybertron) is it's own show and I really liked Galaxy Force but not Cybertron the dub changed to story to much. But that is just me. I tryed watching Armada on You tube but did not finish it was okay. I could not watch Energon i dont know why i think i just found it anoying.

News Credits: 10 · by **Phil** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:36 am

The thing that annoyed me the most about GF/Cybertron was that Takara and Hasbro disagreed about whether or not it was the 3rd part of a trilogy or a reboot in the beginning and that just made a horrible mess of continuity.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:58 am

Legendary Megatron wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Legendary Megatron wrote:Yea, he's been strongly hinted at in Prime so I'm sure it's only a matter of time till we actually see him in the show.
Actually, it is quite possible for him to show up in the Prime cartoon as there are strong hints of his coming later on, what with the "Blood of Unicron" Dark Energon and Hasbro hinting of the something BIG to come as a HUGE threat closer to the end of season 1.

I know? I feel like what you said was worded in disagreement of what I said but we both agree he's going to show up in Prime.

Perhaps instead of saying "Actually," I probably should have said "Now that you mention it," since it was supposed to be more along that line. Either way, I was in agreement with ya.

Legendary Megatron wrote:That link you posted to Energon's flaws though, wow. Makes me wonder how I ever enjoyed it honestly, that is a ridiculous amount of stupidity especially on the creative team's part. I had forgotten about the space cars

There's some for Armada and Cybertron as well.

Oh, I almost forgot the toylines.

Overall, the Armada toyline was pretty lackluster. Nearly every figure in that line suffered a limited range of articulation due to the heavy inclusion of the Mini-Con powerlinx gimmick. There were very few figures that had a decent range of motion. The Unicron toy was not only the crown jewel of this toyline, but practically the only toy worth buying, as he did have a full range of articulation (and then some) and was not crippled by his Mini-Con gimmicks at all. Still, though, the other toys themselves were mostly just average. Several bots had no knees/elbows, many had electronic sounds that became a bit of annoying overtime, and the ever-wonderful ball joints that we'd had since G2 practically disappeared. But on the flip side, each toy was uncomplicated to transform, very sturdy, and very bright and colorful. If one were to go for show-accurate color schemes, the Japanese version of the toyline, Micron Densetsu, would be the figures one would want to get.

On the other hand, the Energon toyline was a breath of fresh air. Loads of great toy molds came out of this line. The gimmick behind this line was combination, and so a great amount of articulation was integrated into the figures. Though, the combining feature was primarily dominated by the Autobots, with the Decepticons featuring a different gimmick called "Hyper Mode", in which additional weaponry could be folded out of or attached to their bodies without the aid of Mini-Cons. And with the additions of Omnicons and Terrorcons to the line, any Energon Weapon included with these two kinds of toys could be wielded by any larger figure to build up their arsenal. Again, if one were going for Show-accuracy, the Japanese toyline, Super Link, features the superior/correct color schemes.

Like the Energon toyline, the Cybertron toyline was pretty good too. While it also had its own share of lousy molds, the majority of this toyline consisted of molds ranging from decent to great. The Cyber Key gimmick was similar to the Mini-Con gimmick, but done right. It did not inhibit the articulation of any figure to the same degree as the mini-cons did, and brought forth an extra dosage of play value to each figure. Not to mention the Primus figure gave us our first ever toy form of Planet Cybertron itself! And of course, in regards to show-accuracy, the Japanese toyline, Galaxy Force, had the superior color schemes.

News Credits: 37 · by **SlyTF1** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:06 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:Well, hopefully someone will continue the movies after DOTM and give Unicron a movie counterpart so he can do those things! Or maybe TF Prime will do that. They already mentioned him in that show.
I doubt we'll see him in DOTM, as this movie is said to be old-fashion war fun without any "mystical" elements (which Unicron falls into the category of being).

Old fashion war fun? The hell? The "mystical" stuff is the most interesting thing about the entire freaking Transformers franchise! You can't have Transformers without mystical stuff, you just can't! Why, why does everything work against me!? :BANG_HEAD:

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:42 pm

SlyTF1 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:Well, hopefully someone will continue the movies after DOTM and give Unicron a movie counterpart so he can do those things! Or maybe TF Prime will do that. They already mentioned him in that show.
I doubt we'll see him in DOTM, as this movie is said to be old-fashion war fun without any "mystical" elements (which Unicron falls into the category of being).

Old fashion war fun? The hell? The "mystical" stuff is the most interesting thing about the entire freaking Transformers franchise! You can't have Transformers without mystical stuff, you just can't! Why, why does everything work against me!?

They're going for a more "real war" angle rather than a "fantasy war" one. It's gonna involve a space race between the Autobots/USA and the Decepticons/Russia. There's no army this time, as Chicago's protection is left in the hands of just the Autobots and the few human characters who sneak into the fight to help as well (my guess is that these are at least Sam, Lennox, and Epps). It's been described by Bay as being "a sort of homeland version of ”Black Hawk Down” — but, you know, with giant alien robots." Less "fighting over the magic MacGuffin" and more "fighting to kill and end this war now."

Though, I really doubt Unicron would appear in tthe films, mainly because any scenes with him wouls obscure any and all human charatcers due to his sheer size. And as we all know, the it is the humans characters that are the stars of Michael Bay's Transformers films.

Plus, a lot of fans fear that, if Unicron were to be in the Bay movies, that he'd be completely messed up and ruined like some of the other negatives of the first two movies, and like how Galactus was changed from a god-like humanoid into "killer space cloud" in Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer. And believe me, we do NOT want another FF:RotSS verison of Galactus. But, then again, ya never know.

Getting back the Unicron Trilogy subject, I didn't really like Unicron all that much in the Armada cartoon for two main reasons. One being his voice.

I've nothing against Mark Acheson himself, but he just didn't capture the magic of the Chaos Bringer's voice like Orson Welles did. Mr. Welles's voice was just so perfect! He created an uber-deep, uber-frightening, Satan-esque voice that was so chilling to the bone to hear!

I loved it! I absolutely loved it! As for Acheson, however, his Unicron, well... It sounded so off, and kinda out there when compared to Welles's smoother, chiling Unicron voice. BUT, whenever Acheson made Unicron yell/growl/grunt/groan/etc., he did sound very Orson-esque in his Unicron voice. But whenever he spoke normally as Unicron, it was a letdown. Perhaps if they had casted Don Brown (using his his Eternal Dragon/Shenron voice from the Ocean Group dub of Dragon Ball Z) as Unicron, it may have sounded better, as Brown's Shenron voice (the middle-right one) sounded very reminiscient of Welles's Unicron voice. And if not him, then Lee Tocker (using his Makuta voice from the Bionicle movies--another Welles Unicron-esque voice) would have sufficed.

The other reason was his lack of actually doing anything himself. for the most partof his appearance in the Armada cartoon, he just looms over Cybertron standing still. He would, on occasion, shoot at the planet, but he barely moved a muscle of the longest time. He did fight his green doppleganger, the Unicron of Light, but it wasn't much a fight and was more of a case of holding hands for long periods of time. In the G1 movie, Unicron was all over the place. He was striking Cybertron form every angle, standing atop the planet while blasting enemy ships from every direction, and causing constant chaos and destruction at every minute. Why was he so lax in his attack during the Armada cartoon? :BANG_HEAD:

News Credits: 37 · by **SlyTF1** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:45 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:Well, hopefully someone will continue the movies after DOTM and give Unicron a movie counterpart so he can do those things! Or maybe TF Prime will do that. They already mentioned him in that show.
I doubt we'll see him in DOTM, as this movie is said to be old-fashion war fun without any "mystical" elements (which Unicron falls into the category of being).

Old fashion war fun? The hell? The "mystical" stuff is the most interesting thing about the entire freaking Transformers franchise! You can't have Transformers without mystical stuff, you just can't! Why, why does everything work against me!?
They're going for a more "real war" angle rather than a "fantasy war" one. It's gonna involve a space race between the Autobots/USA and the Decepticons/Russia. There's no army this time, as Chicago's protection is left in the hands of just the Autobots and the few human characters who sneak into the fight to help as well (my guess is that these are at least Sam, Lennox, and Epps). It's been described by Bay as being "a sort of homeland version of ”Black Hawk Down” — but, you know, with giant alien robots." Less "fighting over the magic MacGuffin" and more "fighting to kill and end this war now."

Still, it's not such a huge feat to balance the two. I'm writing a script to a "movie sized" stopmotion right now, and it's not that hard...at all. Given this is the 3rd time I've had to write it; but still! It's not that hard to have the mystical side and the brutal side at once!

News Credits: 10 · by **Phil** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:36 pm

If it could be done right I wouldn't be against it, but at this point I feel like there's enough going on in the new movie that throwing Unicron in it too would make it way too busy.

News Credits: 1 · by **YRQRM0** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:24 am

I LOVED Armada. I loved the animation style, as many errors as it had. The emotion was also striking to me in a lot of moments, like Prime's sacrifice, and Starscream going against Unicron. Plus, I liked how every battle wasn't an autobot win entirely, and the decepticons had tons of screentime and moments of victory.

Energon I don't have much memory of, but I do remember HATING the animation, which I still do because it looks horrible. I also remember everytime I watched it, it seemed like the same thing was happening...they were fighting over energon.

Cybertron I liked. The 3D TF's still looked odd, but the big explosions and DBZ-esque powering up made it really entertaining, as well as the cool race sequences, and the whole cyberkey thing. I also love Cybertron Prime's design, the toy is still one of my favorites. Not to mention his powerlinx modes.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:28 am

YRQRM0 wrote:I LOVED Armada. I loved the animation style, as many errors as it had.

Why settle for the flawed animation of the English version when you could instead gaze upon the crisp, cleaned up, improved animation of the Japanese version?

News Credits: 1 · by **Duke of Luns** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:54 pm

Sabrblade wrote:Oh, I almost forgot the toylines.

Overall, the Armada toyline was pretty lackluster. Nearly every figure in that line suffered a limited range of articulation due to the heavy inclusion of the Mini-Con powerlinx gimmick. There were very few figures that had a decent range of motion. The Unicron toy was not only the crown jewel of this toyline, but practically the only toy worth buying, as he did have a full range of articulation (and then some) and was not crippled by his Mini-Con gimmicks at all. Still, though, the other toys themselves were mostly just average. Several bots had no knees/elbows, many had electronic sounds that became a bit of annoying overtime, and the ever-wonderful ball joints that we'd had since G2 practically disappeared. But on the flip side, each toy was uncomplicated to transform, very sturdy, and very bright and colorful. If one were to go for show-accurate color schemes, the Japanese version of the toyline, Micron Densetsu, would be the figures one would want to get.

In regards to Unicron, yeah he really was one of the few "must get" figures from the line, but taken for what it is, some of the figures are fun. Tidal Wave is great, even without the knees. His three-ship alt. mode is plain fun. Deluxe or "bendy" Prime was a highlight for a good while I believe, and has aged pretty well. He even had a non-hindering(though truly useless) Mini-con "punching" gimmick.

Other Armada figures I have I enjoy. Super-base Prime is very flawed, but his combination with Jetfire and Overload is very cool looking, and Jetfire on his own I like very much. Sideways, ok he looks goofy but I adore his Headmaster gimmick, and I feel he's a much more fun and plays the "double agent role" better than his Cybertron incarnation.

by **ZeldaTheSwordsman** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:00 am

Armada is mediocre both at dub and at source show, Energon is a bad dub of a bad source show, Cybertron is a good dub that actually manages to improve on its source show overall, but people have bashed it for supposed continuity problems with the other two even though it really is a standalone even in the dub (I don't care what Aron Archer says, Voicebox dubbed as a reboot/alt. universe just like Galaxy Force and the Collector's Club comic retcon was dumb even by Transformers' retcon standards), or have equated the various accents with bad voice acting even though the actual performances of the actors are WAY better than in Armada and Energon, or for turning the male Nitro Convoy into the female Override even though Nitro's a dime-a-dozen one-dimensional jackass while Override is a responsible leader and a more enjoyable character. Also, a lot of Cybertron's haters never saw it through to the end or even the middle. Things REALLY get interesting when Starscream successfully betrays Megatron.

by **JetOptimus23** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:39 pm

One word...

Kicker

:BANG_HEAD:

God why...

by **ZeldaTheSwordsman** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:27 pm

From the episode summaries I've read on TFwiki he's not nearly as bad as Circuit Breaker.

by **JetOptimus23** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:30 pm

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:From the episode summaries I've read on TFwiki he's not nearly as bad as Circuit Breaker.

Circut Breaker was badass and hot... Kicker was whiney and contrived. Plus, did Kicker ever blast a dark god?

Plus, there's no substitute to seeing it in person. Reading about a train wreck doesn't give you the full sense of horror.