The Energon Pub

I'm talking about poverty here.

How do some people end up (and sometimes, stay) penniless?

It depends on who you're talking about. Some spend too much money, others are lazy and don't work. Others complain about how they deserve money, but show no interest in trying to earn any.

It really depends on the person and the scenario.

My experience in life as taught me that the vast majority of "poor" people are poor simply because they won't put in the extra effort required to get them out of thier hole.

Good question. And I can answer it from personal experience. 7 months ago I was laid off from a company because of a fued I was having with a family member higher up in the company. I went on unemployment which literally cut my income in less than half. Having a car payment, car insurance, gas and food to pay for it has hit me hard and generally drained my account on a monthly basis. I'm educated in a field (mechanical engineering) where an employer is looking for a degreed individual or someone with 5+ years of experience. I have neither being that I did not go to college and I'm only 21 years old. So while I have still contacted many engineering firms I have been turned down by all of them due to lack of experience. This has forced me to try acquiring a job in other fields where I have zero experience.. From assembly work to a Gamestop employee. No one is willing to hire a person though when they have no prior experience. Now I am out of unemployment compensation, Tax season is coming up and I have $80 in my bank account. The only reason I'm not out in the street is because my parents still allow me to live with them.

So anyone saying it's because of pure laziness is full of ****. Training yourself in a field that now doesn't even accept you really hurts I must say. Not in an emotional sense but the fact that outside of engineering I know practically nothing. And no one wants to hire someone who knows nothing about what they do. Would you believe I'm so desperate for work that I applied for a janitorial position at the local high school? They said no because I had never worked in a position like that.

having just gotten over a bad period with money and jobs, I kinda agree with Zuko, but you do have some people who are just lazy as well, there's a whole horde of reasons to be poor, laziness, getting screwed by a job, etc.. not just one reason.

Zuko wrote:So anyone saying it's because of pure laziness is full of ****. Training yourself in a field that now doesn't even accept you really hurts I must say. Not in an emotional sense but the fact that outside of engineering I know practically nothing. And no one wants to hire someone who knows nothing about what they do. Would you believe I'm so desperate for work that I applied for a janitorial position at the local high school? They said no because I had never worked in a position like that.

Yeah, I'm kind of in a similar boat. It's not laziness or lack of motivation on my part, but a situation where I couldn't afford to finish college. I never had a job in high school because I didn't have the time or the need, so I have no experience and no degree. No one around here will hire me because of that.

Fortunately, I do have my skills as a writer to rely on, so I have a chance to sell stories I'm working on after they're finished. Even then, however, I'll be lucky to earn a decent living that way, and until then, all I can do is write and hope my luck changes, and be grateful my family will help me out financially.

"Why do people get poor?" in terms of individuals who begin from the same class background as most people likely to populate this board can indeed come from laziness, bad decision making, or overspending. It can also come from bad circumstances without a safety net.

Poverty in groups comes from structural economics which systematically leaves people out of the loop and offers very little chance for advancement. We had more poverty during the depression; were people just lazier then? Many people in poverty work longer and harder than you or I ever will. Beyond conscious discrimination of any kind, the expectations of any good-paying job require many aspects of background and habituation that a middle-class person will have as a matter of course.

The great American myth is predicated on the belief that anyone who works hard and thinks smart can get ahead. Well, it's true that McDonald's employee has more chance of becoming a millionaire here than a medieval serf had of becoming king, but it's not true that economic status is based solely or even primarily on merit. Poverty at large is a function of economic factors bigger than the character of the individuals in it.

because them buy lots of toys

Because we live in a democratic, capitalistic country.

Given the fact that we are not founded on an economy that follows communism, we do not all make the same amount of money and, hence, by comparision, there are those who make so less amounts of money as others that they are considered to be within the poverty realm.

It is true that there are those who are lazy or who do not care to get out of the poverty level, but that is not the cause of their poverty, but an effect of their poverty. It is only by a slight chance that those who are born and are raised in a family that is already in the poverty level will have the dreams, drive, and opportunities to raise themselves out of it.

Predaprince wrote:Because we live in a democratic, capitalistic country.

Given the fact that we are not founded on an economy that follows communism, we do not all make the same amount of money and, hence, by comparision, there are those who make so less amounts of money as others that they are considered to be within the poverty realm.

It is true that there are those who are lazy or who do not care to get out of the poverty level, but that is not the cause of their poverty, but an effect of their poverty. It is only by a slight chance that those who are born and are raised in a family that is already in the poverty level will have the dreams, drive, and opportunities to raise themselves out of it.

As I remember, communism had it's own way of making people poor (or at least make them live poor), if not even poorer.

I mean yeah, a lot of other people are just lazy. You also have to remember though that this world we live in can be a very cruel place where only the fittest survive, and even the most hardworking, talented person can fail simply for not being lucky enough.

In theory any financial disaster can be averted through planning and forethought, but sometimes the thinking required just isn't humanly possible.

Y'know, the "laziness" part probably explains why America has to rely on illegal immigrants for work even though we've got so many homeless people wandering around our cities.

ScorpoMax wrote:

Predaprince wrote:Because we live in a democratic, capitalistic country.

Given the fact that we are not founded on an economy that follows communism, we do not all make the same amount of money and, hence, by comparision, there are those who make so less amounts of money as others that they are considered to be within the poverty realm.

It is true that there are those who are lazy or who do not care to get out of the poverty level, but that is not the cause of their poverty, but an effect of their poverty. It is only by a slight chance that those who are born and are raised in a family that is already in the poverty level will have the dreams, drive, and opportunities to raise themselves out of it.

As I remember, communism had it's own way of making people poor (or at least make them live poor), if not even poorer.

I mean yeah, a lot of other people are just lazy. You also have to remember though that this world we live in can be a very cruel place where only the fittest survive, and even the most hardworking, talented person can fail simply for not being lucky enough.

In theory any financial disaster can be averted through planning and forethought, but sometimes the thinking required just isn't humanly possible.

Y'know, the "laziness" part probably explains why America has to rely on illegal immigrants for work even though we've got so many homeless people wandering around our cities.

The problem with most people and their views on communism is that most people don't actually know what communism is.

Communism is not a system of government, but an economic system. There are mainly three major governmental systems in human history, which are democracy, fascism, and socialism.

Democracy actually falls moderately between the complete opposite systems of fascism and socialism. In fascism, a single being, mostly known as a dictator to our modern viewpoints, is in complete control of the government and, in socialism, the whole culture of individuals are in control.

Communism works or would work on its own based of off being an economic system. The issue falls that communism would MOST of the time exist in countries where the government is fascist or socialist and the only problem with these government systems is explained with that old saying "Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Id say these days that most poor people are born into poverty. Its not a choice they make.

There was a documentary somewhere that we had talked about in my sociology class. Basically, they had given a homeless man $100,000. Within three months, the man had spent every penny and was back on the streets.
It was interesting to say the least.

Stormrider wrote:

Screambug wrote:I'm talking about poverty here.

How do some people end up (and sometimes, stay) penniless?

I say procrastination.

I always say procrastination is a lot like masterbation. Sure it feels good when you do it but in the end you're only screwing yourself.

Here in Canada, more specificly the areas where I live, Toronto and a small city to the north called Peterborough, we have different levels of poverty. I fall into the College poverty bracket, where I work myself hard at both school and my part time jobs just so I have enough money to pay for school (tuition, books and supplies), food, gas, inurance, rent, heat and hydro. I've been in school twice now and my debt is almost a solid $16,000 none student line of credit. I would consider myslef "poor" but not impoverished. I see many an unfortunate soul out on the street pan handling for loose change. I do feel sorry for these folks, but at the same moment, I know what they do with the money that is tossed in their fresh Tim Hortons coffee cup. In Toronto it's alot worse. A person for every street corner. Harsh reality is some of these people are just genuinely poor. Raised poor without the chances to grow in life that we all take for granted. But then you have people like the infamous Toronto Shakey Lady who really laid it on thick claiming she was poor and would pray for people if they would give her money.

I don't think anyone is poor by choice, people are poor by design. If they have no motivation to pick themselves up then let them be. As for us college bums, School can eithe make our break the rest of your life. Hopefully I can get myself a good job after I graduate instead of working at a craft store and night time security.

Loki120 wrote:There was a documentary somewhere that we had talked about in my sociology class. Basically, they had given a homeless man $100,000. Within three months, the man had spent every penny and was back on the streets.
It was interesting to say the least.

Not to suprised there. Happens with many regular people that win vast sums of money ie the lottery. Its having what they never had and having no idea ow to make the most of it. The vast majority of them will buy not the essentail things but dream items things that will raise they social status if only by appearance. Once friends and family notice this sudden wealth they will prey on the new rich person. They ask for loan and such with no intention of paying it back becasue well that person is rich. In the end the person lends up poor once again.

The ones i feel for and people born into poverty. It is no choice of their own nothing they planned. Now some will have parent that are really trying to offer the child a better life. And when the kids dont take that chance thats when they make their decision to be poor. However when the parents just dont care and dont even try to do something to help their children well the kids even more f*cked.

I think one huge factor is friends and family. When you fall on hard time but have support i think it makes a vast difference to when you have to face it alone.

One word.................Capitalism!!!!

Ribdasca wrote:One word.................Capitalism!!!!

Its the only thing that kinda works for us. With any proposed system you have to factor in human greed. Thats why communism can never work.

Where I come from, most of poor is ether on meth (which is one of the biggest problems in the city I live in) or finding a job of any kind is almost impossible unless you know the right people even if you have the right experiance. (Sorry about my spelling, I'm a very lossy speller )

ScorpoMax wrote:Y'know, the "laziness" part probably explains why America has to rely on illegal immigrants for work even though we've got so many homeless people wandering around our cities.

We don't rely on illegal immigrants. If anything we are getting screwed over by them. The Americans that need jobs can't get them because the illegals are working for less then minimum wage, and employers love that because that means more money in their pocket.

My brother and I were born into poverty. We had bills put in our names when we were younger because my mom's credit was so bad that most utility companies wouldn't even offer her service.

Which in turn really screwed my credit over.

I am nowhere near lazy though. I work hard, but the truth is, employers don't want to hire someone with no experience.

I finally got a job at a dollar store, and ended up quitting(very personal issue there, so don't even ask about it). There was no possible way I could stay working there a day longer then I did.

There's an old saying that describes America, it always has and it always will..The rich get richer and the poor get more poor.

The only exceptions are celebrities that waste all their money and go bankrupt.

(tosses in two cents)

Here's the deal. If you're having problems with money, you weren't taught the nature of money. There is a ton of money out there to be made with very little work and some lite reading. No degree, license, or capitol neccessary.

Real Estate Investing... If you work, it works and Damn does it work. Last month I net more cash than I've made in any given year of my life. The only thing I need to do is hold one showing a week, maybe an hour... I've got friends working for me handling the paper and foot work.

It probally cost me millions to get started. Not in actual cost, but in lost opportunities due to fear. Man, I was so scared when I signed that first purchase agreement... I had no money and no credit so this was my ass if it went wrong.

But, because I did my homework, it worked. I made 7 grand, cash, at closing. I maintained my cool till the clients left. I got in my Mom's truck and started laughing. I refinanced and paid off my mom's house. She's retired now, too.

If you always do
what you've always done
you'll always get
what you've always got.

.Rodr-Evil. wrote:because them buy lots of toys

Amen

people get poor because of bad financial management.

Venomous Prime wrote:

ScorpoMax wrote:Y'know, the "laziness" part probably explains why America has to rely on illegal immigrants for work even though we've got so many homeless people wandering around our cities.

We don't rely on illegal immigrants. If anything we are getting screwed over by them. The Americans that need jobs can't get them because the illegals are working for less then minimum wage, and employers love that because that means more money in their pocket.

My brother and I were born into poverty. We had bills put in our names when we were younger because my mom's credit was so bad that most utility companies wouldn't even offer her service.

Which in turn really screwed my credit over.

I am nowhere near lazy though. I work hard, but the truth is, employers don't want to hire someone with no experience.

I finally got a job at a dollar store, and ended up quitting(very personal issue there, so don't even ask about it). There was no possible way I could stay working there a day longer then I did.

There's an old saying that describes America, it always has and it always will..The rich get richer and the poor get more poor.

The only exceptions are celebrities that waste all their money and go bankrupt.

define irony; american complaining about capitalism...

I think far more people are born into poverty than become poor, and that saying that everyone who is poor is lazy is just ignorance. Unless your willing to believe that the 3rd world is just a vast mass of extremely lazy people.