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And given his G2 and subsequent iterations were anything but guns ... kinda obvious what the creative minds were thinking as well.

Burn wrote:I've often wondered if his gun mode actually increases his firepower. Take the movie for example, one shot kills on the Autobot shuttle. But in robot mode bots get up and keep fighting.

But then that doesn't make sense, he transforms into something smaller but his power is increased? I know, suspend my disbelief, it was a animated movie.

You see, I've always taken it for granted that it was well-known that his gun form condensed and concentrated all his firepower making it that much more lethal. If it didn't, then I would agree that it doesn't make much sense.

Burn wrote:As a giant alien robot, transforming into a gun is definitely impractical when your arch-nemesis transforms into a semi-truck capable of running over the little tiny gun.

Yes, but so what? So it gets run over, then someone can pick it up and blow away Prime from behind. In the context you laid out above, I can argue the other way around easily: it's impractical for Prime's alt mode to not have any weaponry when his arch-nemesis becomes an extremely deadly weapon. So, while Prime is the best warrior in robot mode, his alt mode enables him to... bring cargo around?

Anyway, at least it's a good debate.

Burn wrote:And given his G2 and subsequent iterations were anything but guns ... kinda obvious what the creative minds were thinking as well.

Gotta disagree again. Dumb political correctness is what made toy guns a thing of the past. Obviously toy companies had to come up with something else since owning a toy gun obviously meant your kid would grow up to be satan.

tfparodies wrote:You see, I've always taken it for granted that it was well-known that his gun form condensed and concentrated all his firepower making it that much more lethal. If it didn't, then I would agree that it doesn't make much sense.

I don't know about well known. And IF that were the case, then surely he'd just stay in alt-mode and have someone wave him around shooting things.

Unless it's taxing on him. (Now there's a theory to debate!)

Yes, but so what? So it gets run over, then someone can pick it up and blow away Prime from behind. In the context you laid out above, I can argue the other way around easily: it's impractical for Prime's alt mode to not have any weaponry when his arch-nemesis becomes an extremely deadly weapon. So, while Prime is the best warrior in robot mode, his alt mode enables him to... bring cargo around?

Yeah but his alt-mode is weaponry. However, what you said may have merit as subsequent iterations of Prime have often seen weapons added to his trailer (Powermaster, G2)

So maybe the creative minds saw that basic alt-modes were impractical for a lot of characters?

Burn wrote:And given his G2 and subsequent iterations were anything but guns ... kinda obvious what the creative minds were thinking as well.

True. Speaking of which, I have to applaud Sunbow (or whoever the cartoon producers were) for coming up with the idea of Teletran-1 randomly scanning earth modes for the TF's, thus freeing them from having to explain why Megatron would choose a gun as an alt mode, given the much-debated impracticalities (fanon not withstanding).

Interestingly, it was never a premeditated choice, whether in reality or in the cartoon universe.

And let's not forget the increasing pressure from the government and the soccer mom brigade concerning kids and gun-related violence.

Lets face it, Megatron's real weakness was his propensity to squander the Decep's money as shown in the "loan" video here:

http://www.youtube.com/my_videos?o=U

(Yes, yes, shameless plug, I know!)

But anyway, while I have an issue with the gun mode being called impractical, the OPs use of the word "humiliating" really got me going here.

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:And let's not forget the increasing pressure from the government and the soccer mom brigade concerning kids and gun-related violence.

Which we as kids knew nothing about back then!

Megatron was used in a hold-up in Sydney, ever since then the poor bugger has been bloody hard to import unless he's unboxed and sent in robot mode.

Burn wrote:

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:And let's not forget the increasing pressure from the government and the soccer mom brigade concerning kids and gun-related violence.

Which we as kids knew nothing about back then!

Megatron was used in a hold-up in Sydney, ever since then the poor bugger has been bloody hard to import unless he's unboxed and sent in robot mode.

And let's not forget that time when some guy in the UK walked around pointing MP Megatron at his neighbors.

As for importing Megs, same here.

To be honest, G1 Megatron never really impressed me that much. Not in the cartoon, not in Marvel G1 (especially not there), not in Dreamwave G1, and still not in IDW G1 (based on what all I've read through thus far, that is, since I'm still working my way through those comics).

The most awe-inspiring Megatrons I've had the pleasure of beholding would have to be Beast Era Megatron, Animated Megatron, and Prime Megatron (but not necessarily in that particular order), since those three got to show us the most facets and layers of their personalities, whereas G1 Megatron, in all his incarnations, seemed to only be stuck on one setting no matter what emotion he was trying to convey: Angry.

Whenever he was happy, sad, confused, surprised, indifferent, or anything at all, his tone and mannerisms always came off as irate and annoyed, as though nothing ever seemed to please him, not even villainous pleasure itself. The cartoon voice that Frank Welker created for him, though memorable, seemed incapable of properly emoting feelings on that wide a range. And Welker has even admitted to purposely doing this, stating that he WANTED G1 Megatron to always sound angry no matter what he was feeling.

Thus, I am so thankful that Frank Welker eventually switched out of this rut he seemed to put his Megatron voice into by modifying it to being less over-the-top and more emotive and expressive for his Prime Megatron voice.

http://benthesage.com/reviews/aa/anime-abandon-top-20-greatest-giant-robots/

This is Bennete the Sage: Anime Adandon's Top 20 Giant Robot's. At 6:20 is #17 Megatron, & Bennette articulates well, just why, Meg's works.

Meg's had some extreme silly moments in Marvel Comics, however...

Comic Megatron single handedly kicked the **** out of Predaking, then faked his death in glorious fashion. He also tossed Grimlock around like a rag-doll. Megatron also repaid Shockwave for the attempted qu de ta.

...and he robbed a bank...

As Galvatron, in both US & UK, NO SINGLE ROBOT could take him down. The only thing close was Fort. Max. at the series end.

Well, aside from being powerful, threatening, devious, and essentially indestructible. Megatron also has this charm and eloquence about him. And an ironic sense of humour.

I watched several new iterations of Megatron on TV, they were generally all bland stiffs and generic bad guys.


Regarding his alt-mode, I love it. It's iconic. And like tfparodies, I always took it to mean that his fire power is more concentrated in gun mode. Because as a gun his blasts are a product of his entire body rather than "just" the fusion canon on his arm.

The fact that Optimus Prime & Megatron are the same size, yet one transforms into a big truck and the other into a gun that can be held by the former, is part of the magic of the original show. I think creators are too cynical to do stuff like that anymore.

Burn wrote:

njb902 wrote:Yes. While in battle Megatron can still lend his firepower while being able to monitor the whole situation.

Alt-mode - Requires to be carried, can shoot things, can monitor the situation and give orders
Robot mode - Doesn't require to be carried, can shoot things, can fly above the battlefield, can dodge things, all the while monitoring the situation and giving orders.

Impractical alt-mode. What would be the purpose in him transforming ever?

Maybe it's just me then. I always found having to fire my own weapon to be rather distracting.

njb902 wrote:

Burn wrote:

njb902 wrote:Yes. While in battle Megatron can still lend his firepower while being able to monitor the whole situation.

Alt-mode - Requires to be carried, can shoot things, can monitor the situation and give orders
Robot mode - Doesn't require to be carried, can shoot things, can fly above the battlefield, can dodge things, all the while monitoring the situation and giving orders.

Impractical alt-mode. What would be the purpose in him transforming ever?

Maybe it's just me then. I always found having to fire my own weapon to be rather distracting.

If you wanna shoot somebody and need someone else to pull your trigger, but said minion is either too busy or just simply unable to pull your trigger, and you yourself are incapable of willingly firing on your own at your own command, then you're screwed.

Also, if you fall into the hands of your enemy, and they use your power against your own comrades, or decide to simply break you into pieces by either crushing you in their hands or by snapping you in half over their knee, you're screwed there too.

Bottom line is, what's the point in turning into a small, mostly defenseless* object that grants you no free will of you own whatsoever?

*- the only way you could defend yourself in this form would be to have your barrel aimed at your enemy, but since a gun only points in one direction, your helpless to stop anyone from coming at you from any side that isn't right in front of you.

Sabrblade wrote:

njb902 wrote:

Burn wrote:

njb902 wrote:Yes. While in battle Megatron can still lend his firepower while being able to monitor the whole situation.

Alt-mode - Requires to be carried, can shoot things, can monitor the situation and give orders
Robot mode - Doesn't require to be carried, can shoot things, can fly above the battlefield, can dodge things, all the while monitoring the situation and giving orders.

Impractical alt-mode. What would be the purpose in him transforming ever?

Maybe it's just me then. I always found having to fire my own weapon to be rather distracting.

If you wanna shoot somebody and need someone else to pull your trigger, but said minion is either too busy or just simply unable to pull your trigger, and you yourself are incapable of willingly firing on your own at your own command, then you're screwed.

Also, if you fall into the hands of your enemy, and they use your power against your own comrades, or decide to simply break you into pieces by either crushing you in their hands or by snapping you in half over their knee, you're screwed there too.

Bottom line is, what's the point in turning into a small, mostly defenseless* object that grants you no free will of you own whatsoever?

*- the only way you could defend yourself in this form would be to have your barrel aimed at your enemy, but since a gun only points in one direction, your helpless to stop anyone from coming at you from any side that isn't right in front of you.

Has it ever been stated that Megatron can't fire himself in alt mode? The cars drive themselves, the jets fly themselves Ect. Ect.

Baring damage(if I remember correctly that did happen in an episode) why wouldn't Megatron just transform if someone tried to use him against his will? Let's even say he couldn't transform for some reason why couldn't he just decide not to fire? It's not like he's a regular gun which has ammunition that requires a trigger, hammer/pin, and a bullet cap to fire.

As for crushing him, I asked before who would want to crush even a small nuclear reactor?

njb902 wrote:Has it ever been stated that Megatron can't fire himself in alt mode? The cars drive themselves, the jets fly themselves Ect. Ect.

Baring damage(if I remember correctly that did happen in an episode) why wouldn't Megatron just transform if someone tried to use him against his will? Let's even say he couldn't transform for some reason why couldn't he just decide not to fire? It's not like he's a regular gun which has ammunition that requires a trigger, hammer/pin, and a bullet cap to fire.

Most others here are saying that he needs someone else to pull his trigger to shoot, so I'm just going by their word. And if this is true, then his needing someone else to do so suggests that he doesn't have control over his firing abilities. Otherwise, he wouldn't need someone else to pull his trigger for him, and would just fire all on his own.

Not to mention that when he was wielded by Autobot X/Spike in that one episode, Spike used him to shoot at the other Cons, which Megatron could not stop him from doing.

njb902 wrote:As for crushing him, I asked before who would want to crush even a small nuclear reactor?

Unicron?

Or any extra-superpowered Autobot who wouldn't be harmed that much by a nuclear explosion.

Sabrblade wrote:

njb902 wrote:Has it ever been stated that Megatron can't fire himself in alt mode? The cars drive themselves, the jets fly themselves Ect. Ect.

Baring damage(if I remember correctly that did happen in an episode) why wouldn't Megatron just transform if someone tried to use him against his will? Let's even say he couldn't transform for some reason why couldn't he just decide not to fire? It's not like he's a regular gun which has ammunition that requires a trigger, hammer/pin, and a bullet cap to fire.

Most others here are saying that he needs someone else to pull his trigger to shoot, so I'm just going by their word. And if this is true, then his needing someone else to do so suggests that he doesn't have control over his firing abilities. Otherwise, he wouldn't need someone else to pull his trigger for him, and would just fire all on his own.

Not to mention that when he was wielded by Autobot X/Spike in that one episode, Spike used him to shoot at the other Cons, which Megatron could not stop him from doing.

njb902 wrote:As for crushing him, I asked before who would want to crush even a small nuclear reactor?

Unicron?

Or any extra-superpowered Autobot who wouldn't be harmed that much by a nuclear explosion.

Oh yeah I forgot about the Autobot X episode.

I do find it odd that the jets can fly themselves, the tanks can fire themselves, the cars can drive themselves, the microscopes can adjust themselves, but Megatron can't fire/not fire himself. I He could just be sadistic enough to enjoy seeing his own troops be blasted, however that's a whole other debate.

Heh, I was just about to mention Autobot Spik. And, under Teletraan's control, Skywarp in "Roll For It." They used Megatron against the other Decepticons, so he transformed back to robot mode.

btw, Megatron manipulating Autobot Spike in gun mode, kind of like a devil on his shoulder, was pretty awesome.

He's got probably one of my favourite transforms. The animation is so quick, but actually very detailed. And I like how he loops in the air while he transforms.

Whenever he transformerd into a gun you knew it meant business, it was always a dramatic image when Starscream or Soundwave were pointing him at someone.

G1 Megatron is awesome, but his alt-mode is more hilarious than practical.

As for the firing himself, it looks like it's different depending on which version you're talking about.
Cartoon Megatron had no control over himself in alt-mode. Marvel Megatron was a troll for the few times he was in command or on top, I recall someone telling me about there being one or two stories in which Megatron would just lie around in alt-mode till a random guy would pick him up, and then kinda cohersing him into using him and tempting him into becoming evil and powerful, just to then refuse to shoot when he's needed most. But other than that Marvel Megatron was a loser who had his arse handed to him by almost everyone, save for those two "lets make him a badass before he dies" instances.

He is mainly idolized for the fact that he was the original Megatron and most of us grew up with him, on top of that he had a badass awesome voice that just oozes evil, and he's one of the few bad guys who actually survived their heroic counterpart.
On top of that, every time he's revitalized in comic form for the latest comic adaptation of G1, he's made a total brutal badass on the level of how we viewed him back in the old days.

Then again he was implied to be a huge threat and pretty dark, with brainwashing people, murdering people, short tempers, conquering and deceiving.

By the Pit! Did non of you read the comics from the 80's & 90's?

Here:

http://boltax.blogspot.com/2011/02/review-marvel-g2-prequel-gi-joe_11.html



I couldn't find the image I needed, but, I had this issue of GI Joe, which is still a favorite. In the first couple of pages, Megatron, damaged from the end of the G1 Marvel Comics, engaged in battle with Cobra's "Silent Castle", & hovered in the air while in gun mode.

As far as the rest, I personally think a big gun works, so much so that I paid a $100 a couple of years ago for Henkai Megatron.

Consider Megatron's gun mode to be equivalent to the Japanese Katana or mythical western sword that gives its wielder power and also influences said wielder...



OMG!!! That's a brilliant idea for me to follow/pursue & experiment with in writing! Both the "sword" & "gun" as entities.

I've got to experiment with this. My goal: get a fanfic out to explore this theme, using Meg's in a very different way . I'll get on in, post it on the fanfic forum, then add a link here to get thoughts & critique for improvement. Stay tuned!

To those asking why he can't fire himself while other decepticons can fully manipulate their alt modes, I think the real reason is not that he can't fire himself, but he can't aim himself. Since he can't fly/float as a gun he wont be able to aim at will. I do believe he could fire himself if need be.

tfparodies wrote:To those asking why he can't fire himself while other decepticons can fully manipulate their alt modes, I think the real reason is not that he can't fire himself, but he can't aim himself. Since he can't fly/float as a gun he wont be able to aim at will. I do believe he could fire himself if need be.

As much as I hate to contribute to any form of "fanon", I just couldn't resist in this case.

Seeing as how Megatron, Soundwave and just about every other Decepticon with non-aircraft alt modes can fly in both modes (I remember Soundwave launching into the air in cassette player mode once), there's probably some sort of built-in anti-gravitiy system installed in them. Most likely Decepticon technology since, as the story goes, Autobots can't fly.

So if they can fly in any mode without any form of visible propulsion, in theory shouldn't Megatron be able to hover in midair to aim and fire autonomously in gun mode?

Cyberpath wrote:He's got probably one of my favourite transforms. The animation is so quick, but actually very detailed. And I like how he loops in the air while he transforms.

Yeah man, you're right. His transformation animation is pretty awesome.

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:So if they can fly in any mode without any form of visible propulsion, in theory shouldn't Megatron be able to hover in midair to aim and fire autonomously in gun mode?

Yeah, he probably should, but I'm glad he doesn't even though people in this thread think it's dumb that he needs to be fired. It's just more badass that someone needs to hold him in my opinion. A floating earth-form gun would look stupid (and we do see it that way early on, and it does). For a big space-gun like Shockwave it makes more sense, but for Megatron even though in the lore he probably should be able to hover and fire, I'm glad he doesn't.

Burn wrote:And given his G2 and subsequent iterations were anything but guns ... kinda obvious what the creative minds were thinking as well.

Guess it's safe to say, that even Hasbro thought the idea was ludicrous.

Yeah, he probably should, but I'm glad he doesn't even though people in this thread think it's dumb that he needs to be fired. It's just more badass that someone needs to hold him in my opinion. A floating earth-form gun would look stupid (and we do see it that way early on, and it does). For a big space-gun like Shockwave it makes more sense, but for Megatron even though in the lore he probably should be able to hover and fire, I'm glad he doesn't.

So essentially, Megatron NEEDS HELP to kill his enemies? Character wise, I really like G1! Megatron (even through his own incompetence), but his alt mode is still...stupid to me. I will give it a slight pass seeing as how he was already stuck with it in toy form.

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:

tfparodies wrote:Seeing as how Megatron, Soundwave and just about every other Decepticon with non-aircraft alt modes can fly in both modes (I remember Soundwave launching into the air in cassette player mode once), there's probably some sort of built-in anti-gravitiy system installed in them. Most likely Decepticon technology since, as the story goes, Autobots can't fly.

Well, it would be silly to see Megatron runing on foot during battles, on leading this way Decepticons...

tfparodies wrote:It's just more badass that someone needs to hold him in my opinion.

Yeah, you right, in YOUR opinion...

Dead Metal wrote:He is mainly idolized for the fact that he was the original Megatron and most of us grew up with him, on top of that he had a badass awesome voice that just oozes evil, and he's one of the few bad guys who actually survived their heroic counterpart.

Optimus in G1 was later rebuilded, so no. Also, Transformers never were fair in that thing. Two weakest Primes (Cybertron & Bayforemrs) killed Megatrons, despite beign inferior to them in combat. G1 Megatron killed Optimus, despite beign canonically weaker than him.Beign powerfull in Transformers isn't always a good thing.