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[noctorro]

Dawn won't reach monetary levels of AoE, AoE has the kid market backing it.

But as far as story and acting go, Dawn is vastly superior.

Well, I don't care, how about that.

I greatly enjoyed watching AOE today for the second time.
Probably will watch it a third time like I did DOTM.

Vastly superior (in your eyes by the way) doesn't mean everyone will enjoy that movie way more.

I like Transformers, I like robots with swords and shields. If I have to give grades, then intelligent apes get a 4, maybe 6 on the interest scale. And robots and demons get 10, aliens a 9.

So an ape movie can be a better quality piece of cinema, I'm still going to enjoy Transformers way more.

//continues rant

I'm kind of sick and tired about people screaming that PLOT needs to be super complex and filled with ethic dilemma's etc. And if you have robots or aliens battling each other in cool choreographed scenes that's all totally worth rubbish. Because the plot is thin as paper.

So, no one cares about the character design, or the animation?

I had a guy at the office saying Pacific Rim was a total waste of time and bandwith (the guy never pays for movies because it's not worth his money... don't get me started on that one).
However, some Godzilla movie from the early 2000's with dudes in costumes with cheesy special effects was WAY BETTER than Pacific Rim, because the plot was as thick as 4 stacked A4 papers.

Dafuq?

Not saying AOE is perfect, I still have a hard time accepting the whole flying molecules thing, I had that also with Iron Man 3. And also Steve Jobs's character change because the first funny guy was killed. Still thank the gods there waren't any toilet/sex jokes this time.

Still it was an awesome movie, I really started to hate humans first time I saw the Ratchet scene. Loved how Prime had to smack Grimlock's respect out of him. Hound was amazing.

It should make a lot of money, I want the two headed Shockwave thing as a voyager

[Jelze Bunnycat]

Though, none of them received any toys of their own (bummer), their leader did. Red Geist, who surprisingly was not based on G1 Grimlock's toy, was a straight redeco of Deszaras's toy from Transformers Victory:

I've seen reviews of Red Giest and nothing is in common with Deszaurs unless it's very well hidden.

What? They are literally the exact same toy, only with different decos.

Sabrblade, you got the wrong Geist here. What you're thinking of is Dino Geist, while the unrelated Red Geist appeared two series later, as a piloted mech even.

Okay. let me see if I got this right.

Dino Geist is the leader of the Geisters, while Red Geist is from a different series, but is a redeco of Deszaras, correct?

So what I goofed on was the "leader" bit, while getting the rest of stuff correct, right?

Yup

[Burn]

Dawn won't reach monetary levels of AoE, AoE has the kid market backing it.

But as far as story and acting go, Dawn is vastly superior.

Well, I don't care, how about that.

I greatly enjoyed watching AOE today for the second time.
Probably will watch it a third time like I did DOTM.

Vastly superior (in your eyes by the way) doesn't mean everyone will enjoy that movie way more.

I like Transformers, I like robots with swords and shields. If I have to give grades, then intelligent apes get a 4, maybe 6 on the interest scale. And robots and demons get 10, aliens a 9.

So an ape movie can be a better quality piece of cinema, I'm still going to enjoy Transformers way more.

//continues rant

I'm kind of sick and tired about people screaming that PLOT needs to be super complex and filled with ethic dilemma's etc. And if you have robots or aliens battling each other in cool choreographed scenes that's all totally worth rubbish. Because the plot is thin as paper.

So, no one cares about the character design, or the animation?

I had a guy at the office saying Pacific Rim was a total waste of time and bandwith (the guy never pays for movies because it's not worth his money... don't get me started on that one).
However, some Godzilla movie from the early 2000's with dudes in costumes with cheesy special effects was WAY BETTER than Pacific Rim, because the plot was as thick as 4 stacked A4 papers.

Dafuq?

Not saying AOE is perfect, I still have a hard time accepting the whole flying molecules thing, I had that also with Iron Man 3. And also Steve Jobs's character change because the first funny guy was killed. Still thank the gods there waren't any toilet/sex jokes this time.

Still it was an awesome movie, I really started to hate humans first time I saw the Ratchet scene. Loved how Prime had to smack Grimlock's respect out of him. Hound was amazing.

It should make a lot of money, I want the two headed Shockwave thing as a voyager

Settle petal, I didn't say people couldn't continue to enjoy AoE, nor that they would enjoy one more than other. I enjoyed AoE extent, I just enjoyed Dawn more.

If we're going to compare the writing, complex plot doesn't even come into it. AoE (and even the previous films, calm your ass down now SlyTF1) was disconnected, you have to make stretches to make things connect in both AoE and to the previous films (we're still not sure how TF's come into existence anymore, be it Creators or Hatchlings). Dawn doesn't have that problem. It follows smoothly on from Rise and keeps the story intact.

That's why I've always said, don't blame Michael Bay, blame the writers.

[Sabrblade]

We need John Barber to patch things up for us, but there aren't any more movie comics coming at the moment, so we're up the creek on that for now.

[Burn]

We need John Barber to patch things up for us, but there aren't any more movie comics coming at the moment, so we're up the creek on that for now.

Problem with that though is only the fans are going to go out and read those comics.

Casual fans and movie going public don't read them so they don't get things tied together.

Would be better to just find a writer who keeps a story together, which Kruger SHOULD be doing given his past work.

[Sabrblade]

We need John Barber to patch things up for us, but there aren't any more movie comics coming at the moment, so we're up the creek on that for now.

Problem with that though is only the fans are going to go out and read those comics.

Casual fans and movie going public don't read them so they don't get things tied together.

Would be better to just find a writer who keeps a story together, which Kruger SHOULD be doing given his past work.

True, though, how many casual moviegoers or fans already pleased with the movies as they are would be willing to go after the hole-filling comics anyway?

[Sub-Prime]

I read where a critic who didn't like the new Dawn Of The Planet of The APES movie said it had plot holes in it. It could just be that the critic can't put certain things together and I feel the same way about the people screaming an Incoherent plot in TF4. Ehren Kruger isn't perfect but a lot of so called plot holes in TF4 is about common sense.

How can Optimus fly? Optimus is known to gain upgrades especially when he finds mystical objects. In the movie the sword did something to Optimus body. In a scene with Grimlock rampaging Hong Kong, Optimus is seen flying onto a building and then jumping back on Grimlock. Bumblebee gain upgrades in this movie also. He never had a harpoon. But is that a plot hole? More like common sense if you are familiar with Transformers in general.

How did Optimus turn into a truck that's different in color? I think it's because Optimus's transformation/scanning system remembers the old truck paint work. It's not hard to comprehend when Cybertronians are a technologically advance race.

[Autobot032]

I read where a critic who didn't like the new Dawn Of The Planet of The APES movie said it had plot holes in it. It could just be that the critic can't put certain things together and I feel the same way about the people screaming an Incoherent plot in TF4. Ehren Kruger isn't perfect but a lot of so called plot holes in TF4 is about common sense.

How can Optimus fly? Optimus is known to gain upgrades especially when he finds mystical objects. In the movie the sword did something to Optimus body. In a scene with Grimlock rampaging Hong Kong, Optimus is seen flying onto a building and then jumping back on Grimlock. Bumblebee gain upgrades in this movie also. He never had a harpoon. But is that a plot hole? More like common sense if you are familiar with Transformers in general.

How did Optimus turn into a truck that's different in color? I think it's because Optimus's transformation/scanning system remembers the old truck paint work. It's not hard to comprehend when Cybertronians are a technologically advance race.

The problem is you have to spoon feed it to the critics. You and I get it, but they don't.

[Sabrblade]

Yeah, one of the biggest differences between fans and critics who aren't fans is that fans tend to be more fluent with the lore and the tendencies of the fiction, while the non-fan critics aren't. We fans can make educated guesses because we are more educated about this stuff than those who aren't. A completely fresh newcomer with zero familiarity with the fiction will undoubtedly ask questions about things if the movie itself doesn't provide answers to them.

Optimus suddenly being able to fly is never outright explained in the movie, so we fans can only infer what an explanation for it might be, while someone who isn't so schooled on the brand would probably be far less likely to draw any connections between his flight and his minor cosmetic change when pulling out that sword, especially when said cosmetic change itself is never touched upon in the movie nor all that noticeable unless one is really paying attention, and even then it might be easily forgotten as nothing important becuase of it not being elaborated on in the movie. It comes and goes like it's nothing at all, and therefore not something a newcomer would probably pick up on that easily as possible being related to his new-found flight powers.

We have to take these fresh perspectives into account since, while we are adept nerds about these things, many others are not.

[Sub-Prime]

I have seen critics give high marks to movies that would put me to sleep because they are so uninteresting that I never care for their opinion on movies. The only reviews I take seriously is reviews on material products.

[SKYWARPED_128]

The problem is you have to spoon feed it to the critics. You and I get it, but they don't.

Exactly.

If you're going to target the movies at non TF fans and the general movie-going public, you'll have explain just about everything.

[SamYarbrough77]

Just saw It, 2nd best TF movie behind original. Much needed new cast with enough G1 nods.I went in with very low expectations and was pleased. I felt the first half of the movie was perfect while the latter turned into familiar territory. Way too long. Apes movie probably has it beat. Lockdown & Galvatron filled the void well. My only real dislike was the new generation Decepticons transforming, big No No
Nuff Said!

[Slashercon]

With AOE on my mind, this little idea popped into my head. The ironic thing about movie comparisons is that people do the wrong comparisons. The Godfather isn't the best example of film to be compared to Transformers. After all, we have actual movies within the same category of Transformers to compare to instead (sci-fi/ action). Aliens, The Avengers, Star Wars are the movies that I will be comparing to the live action films due to the closet similarities. (thinking positive thoughts only right now)

Aliens: Great gripping story, memorable primarily likeable characters, phenomenal protagonist, eerie atmosphere, awesome/terrifying alien threat, great set pieces/designs, great visual effects, entrancing musical score, good cinematography, great concept executed greatly (especially for a sequel), and of course...the awesome action. (standout moment for me: Ripley in a mech vs The Alien Queen.)

The Avengers: Ensemble cast of heroes from previously singular films, great "simplistic" story, fantastic musical score, awesome alien threat, great concept executed greatly, great performances, great visual effects, fantastic villain, good cinematography, and again...awesome action. (standout moment for me: The Avengers assembling in the city for the first time in a circle.)

Star Wars "Ep.IV A New Hope": Iconic opening and musical score by John Williams, iconic/beloved/great characters, phenomenal villain, great concept executed greatly, serious credible threat, great visual effects (since 1977 and still holds more appeal than the prequels with an overabundance of CGI), and great set pieces/set designs, great performances, great story, great cinematography, and...guess...great action. (standout moment for me: The trash compactor scene/destruction of the Death Star.)

Now, for the live action TF films. (again, positive thoughts only)


Transformers: Fantastic score by Steve Jablonsky, good voice cast (Peter Cullen, and Charlie Adler in particular are my favorites here), great visual effects, good concept executed well, good cinematography, great set pieces/designs, good solid story, fair performances, and as expected...great action. (standout moment for me: the Arrival To Earth sequence.)

Transformers Revenge Of The Fallen: Fantastic score by Steve Jablonsky, fair voice cast, good visual effects, great set pieces/designs, good concept, and good action. (standout moment for me: The forest battle.)

Transformers Dark Of The Moon: Fantastic score by Steve Jablonsky, great voice cast, great visual effects, great set pieces/designs, good concept,fair performances, and fair action. (standout moment for me: Optimus and Sentinel in the desert.)

Transformers Age Of Extinction: Haven't seen it yet. (Yes I am highly aware I'm on a thread filled with spoilers, but considering I've been severely spoiled of the movie before it even hit theaters, I don't seem to care as much about the movie I WILL see it though, albeit with low expectations. You can also be sure that I will apply the same judging style above to AOE while trying to be as unbiased as possible.

Again, these are merely my opinions and observations on the live action films thus far. Don't get mad if my opinions don't match yours (looking at you "@#$*^%".)


P.S. (if this doesn't qualify for this particular thread, someone please create one or move this to the appropriate place.)

[dcs]

While Age of Extinction was certainly no masterpiece, I really don't it's deserving of such a low approval ratings. It was a definite improvement over Revenge of the Fallen. Here's my full review and thoughts:

http://davecsimpson.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/transformers-age-of-extinction-spoiler-free-review/

Feel free to check it out and offer feedback/discussion.

[noctorro]

Agree with the guys above.

It scored lower than ROTF on Rotten Tomatoes, the guys who only like The Godfather II and Amelie.

Why must that always be mentioned in the wikipedia page? 17% rating for me means that it's even more worthless than a softcore lesbian 1000 dollar budget movie you'd have playing on the background while eating lunch.

If AOE is 17%, what rating is Battlefield Earth? Or SS Doomtrooper? Or these low budget Sy Fy movies that keep coming out on blue ray in my country? A -57% rating on Rotten tomatoes?

Can't wait for new movie generation figure waves, such awesomeness

[RhA]

Agree with the guys above.

It scored lower than ROTF on Rotten Tomatoes, the guys who only like The Godfather II and Amelie.

Why must that always be mentioned in the wikipedia page? 17% rating for me means that it's even more worthless than a softcore lesbian 1000 dollar budget movie you'd have playing on the background while eating lunch.

If AOE is 17%, what rating is Battlefield Earth? Or SS Doomtrooper? Or these low budget Sy Fy movies that keep coming out on blue ray in my country? A -57% rating on Rotten tomatoes?

Can't wait for new movie generation figure waves, such awesomeness

Just remember that general opinion does not equal a sensible opinion. Twilight was popular. So there's that.

[Sub-Prime]

I think Marvel is the only entity that should take over Transformers if Bay calls it quits. They were responsible for the G1 comics and one thing I feel they would never give up on is the Action and Fun nature that Transformers movies should have. I feel every other director that everybody wants to direct TF movies might try to turn TF into Shakespeare. No thanks!

[Burn]

People need to stop solely blaming Bay. He's not the one who comes up with the script which is the core part of the movie.

[Sub-Prime]

People need to stop solely blaming Bay. He's not the one who comes up with the script which is the core part of the movie.

Thank you!!!!

It has become mainstream to blame Bay for everything. Funny thing is Bay has never had a movie that flopped. His only weak box office effort was the The Island but it still made back it's budget plus more. I've seen directors that people praise fail plenty of box office predictions.

[Clunker]

To be fair I also dislike Bay's style. The slow motion explosion getaways, the slow motion panning around a figure looking up, the distinct gap you feel between the transformers and humans that kind of feel like they are in a separate film because the interaction is so poorly done.

Yeah the script ain't entirely his fault but he doesn't do it any favours by using his generic filming techniques.

[Sub-Prime]

I think Bay is sick with the camera action. I think his camera tricks adds to the excitement of these films. Slow mo would suck if it wasn't in an action based film. I love when Bumblebee flipped Sam out the car in TF3 only to grab him back. Or in TF2 when he pan around the building that Sam and Mikaela was in while Starscream and his forces are outside looking for them. Or also in TF2 when Optimus fought in the forest? Man I could go on and on. He knows how to shoot intimate Action! People often complain of the jumpy camera but yet it feels kind of realistic in a transformers movie.

[Sub-Prime]

Just saw Dawn of The Planet Of The Apes. Good film but can't be compared to Transformers. It's more of an emotional roller coaster ride than a adventure thrill ride like Age Of Extinction. I liked it a lot for what it is just as I like TF. AOE for what it is.

[Cthulhunicron]

It scored lower than ROTF on Rotten Tomatoes, the guys who only like The Godfather II and Amelie.

Rotten Tomatoes gave X-Men Days of Future Past a 92% rating; they gave the Matrix an 87%. Just because someone doesn't like the Michael Bay Transformers movies doesn't mean that they don't enjoy sci-fi/action movies.

Take me for instance. I like Star Wars, Pacific Rim, Aliens, Robocop, Terminator, Predator, the Matrix, the Avengers, Iron Man, and Batman Begins. However, I can't stand the live-action Transformers movies. To me, they have sporadic moments of entertaining action and cool-looking robots, but for the most part I just find them to be unbearable. All of those other movies I mentioned, I can watch from start to finish and enjoy them in their entirety. On the rare occasions where I watch one of the Transformers films, I pretty much have to skip about 75% of each movie.

[Clunker]

I personally think they are poorly edited. There's scenes in them that don't need to be there and there's jump cuts that just interrupt the flow of the story.

[Cthulhunicron]

I personally think they are poorly edited. There's scenes in them they don't need to be there and there's jump cuts that just interrupt the flow of the story.

I agree.