Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[Sabrblade]

None of the KSI bots had a spark either so you answered your question. They are running on some other power source. The Humans can't create a spark.

But Galvatron was shown to be alive. It was a plot point of the movie. That's what clashes with his having no spark.

His brain activity was transferred to the Galvatron body. He infected the program to have the humans create him. It's kinda like a demon possessing a body.

The body still shouldn't have been alive without a spark, even if it showed signs of brain activity.

[Sub-Prime]

Let's also remember that the humans have a piece of the allspark.

Where/when was that shown/stated?

ROTF already took care of the last two shards, with one being stolen from N.E.S.T. by the Cons to revive Megatron, and the other found by Sam in his sweatshirt and used to revive Jetfire.

The only other thing that could give/restore life in this universe that we know of is the Matrix, which last we saw was still in Optimus's keep.

It makes me wonder what happened to the shard that revive Megatron in ROTF?

[Sub-Prime]

None of the KSI bots had a spark either so you answered your question. They are running on some other power source. The Humans can't create a spark.

But Galvatron was shown to be alive. It was a plot point of the movie. That's what clashes with his having no spark.

His brain activity was transferred to the Galvatron body. He infected the program to have the humans create him. It's kinda like a demon possessing a body.

The body still shouldn't have been alive without a spark, even if it showed signs of brain activity.

You thinking of the KSI bots as if they are real Transformers in the Cybertronian sense. None of them had sparks either. Megatron was also controlling them mentally.

[Burn]

Anyone here who felt that it was "objectively bad" but still "subjectively enjoyed" it?

It was bad, in fact all four movies have been bad, but I've still enjoyed them.

My biggest gripe with AoE was the length of the movie. Just too damn long.

[Sub-Prime]

Burn how do you enjoy a bad movie? If a movie is downright terrible I wouldn't even watch it again nor buy it. But I did buy movies that kinda sucked only because I found them for cheap during Black Friday sale and after Christmas Day sale. I guess I know what you mean as I completely hated all of the The Dark Knight series movies but somehow kind of liked it only because of Bane and Rah's Al Goul. But Batman and the story was kind of boring. I found the TDK series for $4 a piece on Blu-Ray. I wouldn't pay more than $8 for one of them.

[Sabrblade]

None of the KSI bots had a spark either so you answered your question. They are running on some other power source. The Humans can't create a spark.

But Galvatron was shown to be alive. It was a plot point of the movie. That's what clashes with his having no spark.

His brain activity was transferred to the Galvatron body. He infected the program to have the humans create him. It's kinda like a demon possessing a body.

The body still shouldn't have been alive without a spark, even if it showed signs of brain activity.

You thinking of the KSI bots as if they are real Transformers in the Cybertronian sense. None of them had sparks either. Megatron was also controlling them mentally.

No, I'm thinking of them in a general Transformers sense.

And, not once did I claim that all of the other KSI Transformers were alive, only Galvatron. Discussing the liveliness/lifelessness of the non-Galvatron robots is a whole different can of worms.

[That_Guy]

None of the KSI bots had a spark either so you answered your question. They are running on some other power source. The Humans can't create a spark.

But Galvatron was shown to be alive. It was a plot point of the movie. That's what clashes with his having no spark.

His brain activity was transferred to the Galvatron body. He infected the program to have the humans create him. It's kinda like a demon possessing a body.

The body still shouldn't have been alive without a spark, even if it showed signs of brain activity.

You thinking of the KSI bots as if they are real Transformers in the Cybertronian sense. None of them had sparks either. Megatron was also controlling them mentally.

No, I'm thinking of them in a general Transformers sense.

And, not once did I claim that all of the other KSI Transformers were alive, only Galvatron. Discussing the liveliness/lifelessness of the non-Galvatron robots is a whole different can of worms.

Prime to me even opened that hole pretty wide with his explanation of he spark when he was telling Cade. Saying, not only is it a soul, but it hold their memories. Without it, wouldn't that also mean their memory has been wiped? So Megatron as Brains mentions tricks the humans in creating him a new body, with his new body, claiming his new name as Galvatron, regardless would not make sense, he has no spark, no spark no memories. Maybe I'm hearing too much into what Prime said and seeing Megatrons trickery.

[chuckdawg1999]

Burn how do you enjoy a bad movie? If a movie is downright terrible I wouldn't even watch it again nor buy it. But I did buy movies that kinda sucked only because I found them for cheap during Black Friday sale and after Christmas Day sale. I guess I know what you mean as I completely hated all of the The Dark Knight series movies but somehow kind of liked it only because of Bane and Rah's Al Goul. But Batman and the story was kind of boring. I found the TDK series for $4 a piece on Blu-Ray. I wouldn't pay more than $8 for one of them.

It's very easy to enjoy a bad movie, just watch Cinemax after midnight.

[Sub-Prime]

None of the KSI bots had a spark either so you answered your question. They are running on some other power source. The Humans can't create a spark.

But Galvatron was shown to be alive. It was a plot point of the movie. That's what clashes with his having no spark.

His brain activity was transferred to the Galvatron body. He infected the program to have the humans create him. It's kinda like a demon possessing a body.

The body still shouldn't have been alive without a spark, even if it showed signs of brain activity.

You thinking of the KSI bots as if they are real Transformers in the Cybertronian sense. None of them had sparks either. Megatron was also controlling them mentally.

No, I'm thinking of them in a general Transformers sense.

And, not once did I claim that all of the other KSI Transformers were alive, only Galvatron. Discussing the liveliness/lifelessness of the non-Galvatron robots is a whole different can of worms.

Think of Galvatron as Frankensteins monster and Megatron as Frankenstein but with the ability to transfer his thoughts and no emotions to the body. That's what I got from the story that Brains told. It's like in Captain America TWS when he visited that mad scientist and his brain was still controlling things despite his body being dead. It's comic book stuff and fantasy etc-etc. I love stuff like that. I could care less if it's super grounded like a Batman film.

[Sabrblade]

None of the KSI bots had a spark either so you answered your question. They are running on some other power source. The Humans can't create a spark.

But Galvatron was shown to be alive. It was a plot point of the movie. That's what clashes with his having no spark.

His brain activity was transferred to the Galvatron body. He infected the program to have the humans create him. It's kinda like a demon possessing a body.

The body still shouldn't have been alive without a spark, even if it showed signs of brain activity.

You thinking of the KSI bots as if they are real Transformers in the Cybertronian sense. None of them had sparks either. Megatron was also controlling them mentally.

No, I'm thinking of them in a general Transformers sense.

And, not once did I claim that all of the other KSI Transformers were alive, only Galvatron. Discussing the liveliness/lifelessness of the non-Galvatron robots is a whole different can of worms.

Prime to me even opened that hole pretty wide with his explanation of he spark when he was telling Cade. Saying, not only is it a soul, but it hold their memories. Without it, wouldn't that also mean their memory has been wiped? So Megatron as Brains mentions tricks the humans in creating him a new body, with his new body, claiming his new name as Galvatron, regardless would not make sense, he has no spark, no spark no memories. Maybe I'm hearing too much into what Prime said and seeing Megatrons trickery.

No, I think you're right about listening to Prime. Even in other series, Sparks contained a TF's mind and soul. A simple spark transplant into another body brought the consciousness over along with the soul. Here, though, there's no spark, so there should be no mind either.

[Sub-Prime]

It could also mean that Prime's knowledge is limited on what he knows. Remember Prime found out things in the series over time. When he saw the Dinobots he mentioned that the rumors of their existence is now true. What else he doesn't know since there have been Cybertronians that pre-dates him.

[bassal]

I've not seen any of Bay's films other than the Transformers franchise, so here's my two cents on the rankings for all 4 films for the franchise:
Transformers (2007): 7/10 I loved the film when it came out, and it had a decent plot. But if you compare it to the later films (read: Dark of the Moon), it kinda falls short.
Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen: 5/10 This film was bad, but honestly, it wasn't bad enough for me to place it below 5. Plus, the racist jokes and all didn't really affect me.
Transformers: Dark of the Moon: 10/10 This film is awesome. Slightly predictable plot twist, but amazing graphics, and best of all, it had (in my opinion) the best toyline for a Transformers film so far.
Transformers: Age of Extinction: 8.5/10 This film is good enough for comparison to Dark of the Moon, which I think is a big deal. However, a number of things let it down: the Vehicon's transformation, the severe lack of screentime for the Dinobots (which have always been a personal favorite for me), and the fact that the running time is close to 3 frikkin' hours. However, things like a totally badass villain (Lockdown), DINOBOTS, and the all new awesome Autobot cast (with the exception of the yellow bastard) was what made me give it a score comparable to it's predecessor.

[SKYWARPED_128]

Looking at all the comments about the movie in this thread, a lot of comments seem to be either of the mindset of "It was a good movie and I liked it!" or "It was a bad movie and I didn't like it!"

Tell me honestly, is there anybody here who saw the movie and is of the mindset of "It was a bad movie, but I liked it!"?

Anyone here who felt that it was "objectively bad" but still "subjectively enjoyed" it?

After thinking on it a little, I think I do objectively think "it could have been better" but subjectively liked it.

My earlier post pretty much waxed poetic about AoE, probably due to the fact that all the things I hated about ROTF and, to a lesser degree, TF1 and DOTM, were removed in AOE. But after thinking it through a bit, I can see plenty to places where it could have been improved upon.

The knights idea should have been developed further and explained better to the audience--this affects the Dinobots' characterization because their origins are tied closely to them being knights. The thing is, what exactly are "knights" supposed to be in the context of the AOE universe? Are they guardians of Cybertron or possibly enforcers of the so-called Creators, as Lockdown seems to hint at?

The fact that the Dinobots don't speak makes it even harder to relate to them and see them as anything more than CGI eye candy.

So yeah, AOE to me is "objectively" imperfect, but I "subjectively" enjoyed it all the same.

[Burn]

Burn how do you enjoy a bad movie?

I guess it's how you really define what a bad movie is.

To me, Avatar was bad. The storyline was boring and unoriginal, the special effects were anything but special, and it seriously failed to live up to the hype for me. It was bad, I watched it once, have no interest in watching it again, nor to even own.

And as you mentioned, The Dark Knight movies, to me they're bad Batman movies. As movies for his villains though they were great. It's hard NOT to enjoy Heath Ledgers turn as The Joker.

Transformers though, well maybe I'm a little bias as I'm a life long fan. I know they're not perfect, I know the story lines are terrible, but there are moments in them that I truly enjoy, the Barricade and Bumblebee chase scene from the first movie in particular is a favourite part for me.

Prime to me even opened that hole pretty wide with his explanation of he spark when he was telling Cade. Saying, not only is it a soul, but it hold their memories. Without it, wouldn't that also mean their memory has been wiped? So Megatron as Brains mentions tricks the humans in creating him a new body, with his new body, claiming his new name as Galvatron, regardless would not make sense, he has no spark, no spark no memories. Maybe I'm hearing too much into what Prime said and seeing Megatrons trickery.

No, I think you're right about listening to Prime. Even in other series, Sparks contained a TF's mind and soul. A simple spark transplant into another body brought the consciousness over along with the soul. Here, though, there's no spark, so there should be no mind either.

Frankly I think that was a massive cock up on Kruger's writing. There may be SOME explanation to it if you factor in Hatchlings and Creators which contradict each other.

I doubt it will be answered in future movies. This is just going to be one those big glaring flaws that goes unexplained.

[VirusCarnage]

I saw AoE for a 3rd time today, this time in Ultra AVX 3D. I'm slowly starting to realize that it's not as good as I thought it was lol. Still my favourite in the series but I'm seeing the plot holes and such. But I will say that seeing it in the Cineplex version of iMax (pretty much what Ultra AVX is) is much better then watching it in normal 3D.

[Rodimus Prime]

Supposedly Megatron's spark was destroyed at the end of the 1st film when Sam shoved the All Spark into it. Did he somehow get it back with the piece of the All Spark that was used to revive him? Because he couldn't have gotten the spark of the Constructicon whose parts were used to repair him. If the shard didn't include at least some of Megatron's spark, then he has been without it since his resurrection in RoTF. Which would explain his deteriorating physical condition from RoTF to DoTM, as well as his surviving the damage caused by his spinal cord being yanked out by.

[Skywarp64]

Which would explain his deteriorating physical condition from RoTF to DoTM,

I'm pretty sure he deteriorated in physical condition because Optimus Prime made him shoot a third of his own face off, before beating the slag out of him and leaving him to just sort of sit there and writhe and yell for Starscream.

[Skywarp64]

Which would explain his deteriorating physical condition from RoTF to DoTM,

I'm pretty sure he deteriorated in physical condition because Optimus Prime made him shoot a third of his own face off, before beating the slag out of him and leaving him to just sort of sit there and writhe and yell for Starscream.

Sorry for the double-post, my internet failed me. And I STILL can't find a "delete" button.

[Slashercon]

How to Train Your Dragon 2...an example of a superior film to something that is getting heaps of money. And I haven't even seen AOE yet. I KNOW that I'm gonna see and maybe possibly enjoy it.(I refuse to pay money for seeing it.) And seeing Bay pass up so many directors is a constant reminder of the shear ignorance of the world. (This is is also the most negative post I've ever had on seibertron.)

I think that's a little harsh. About the ignorance of the world I mean, people have seen this and loved it, getting their money's worth. People see what will interest them.

Sad but true. But I still stand by what I said, harsh or not. I honestly think the only reason I'm so upset is because HTTYD2 isn't doing well financially while TF4 is. Had that not been the case, I probably wouldn't be as riled up. And I'm not even a hardcore Dragons fan.

You are basically say that everyone who has enjoyed the Transformers movies is ignorant.
It's not harsh, it's insulting.

And yet its also insulting to like a movie like Frozen when you ask Disney diehard fans. POV I suppose. Some people just have a hard time conveying their opinions (I am of course referring to myself)

[Slashercon]

All in all, when it comes to Transformers in virtually any medium (and in other fanbases as well) people show their bias clear as day. Why am I the villain for displaying my opinions on something I think is bad but is beloved by many others simply because it has the label "Transformers" on it? And I am NOT referring solely to the live action films. (1986)

[Slashercon]

Oh great, I sound like a frantic rabid fan on the internet.

[bassal]

How to Train Your Dragon 2...an example of a superior film to something that is getting heaps of money. And I haven't even seen AOE yet. I KNOW that I'm gonna see and maybe possibly enjoy it.(I refuse to pay money for seeing it.) And seeing Bay pass up so many directors is a constant reminder of the shear ignorance of the world. (This is is also the most negative post I've ever had on seibertron.)

I think that's a little harsh. About the ignorance of the world I mean, people have seen this and loved it, getting their money's worth. People see what will interest them.

Sad but true. But I still stand by what I said, harsh or not. I honestly think the only reason I'm so upset is because HTTYD2 isn't doing well financially while TF4 is. Had that not been the case, I probably wouldn't be as riled up. And I'm not even a hardcore Dragons fan.

You are basically say that everyone who has enjoyed the Transformers movies is ignorant.
It's not harsh, it's insulting.

And yet its also insulting to like a movie like Frozen when you ask Disney diehard fans. POV I suppose. Some people just have a hard time conveying their opinions (I am of course referring to myself)

Don't bring up that movie. Seriously. Don't get me started on how much I hate it.

[Cyberpath]

The movie was pretty clear about Galvatron being Megatron reincarnated. Where was it said that he has no "spark," was it the scene with Optimus?

Optimus: "You have no soul!"

Galvatron: "That is why I have no fear!"

I think "Soul" in this line could be taken as a conscience or compassion, rather than spirit.

Or maybe Prime said that before he "sensed Megatron's presence" within the prototyped and assumed it was a regular lifeless man-made drone.

Not saying either is the case, but could be.

Anyone here who felt that it was "objectively bad" but still "subjectively enjoyed" it?

I think that would be kinda tough to do.

Not entirely, as the concept of accepting a movie as "not a good movie" yet still finding enjoyment in it makes it into a "guilty pleasure".

Take the G1 cartoon, for instance. By today's standards, it's 98 episodes of mediocre storytelling, archaic animation, one- to two-dimensional characters, hokey science/logic, and purely non-nutritional substance. Yet, it is still beloved by many fans who, even after removing their nostalgia glasses, get some genuine enjoyment out of it. There are many fans who accept it for what it is, yet still find it delightful.

'Course, I am just referring to the fans who openly recognize it as being far from masterpiece quality and not those other particular fans who have been so blinded by their nostalgia into thinking that the G1 cartoon seriously is a masterpiece, but I digress.

As an example of my own, I see the RiD cartoon as hardly worthwhile from an objective viewpoint, yet still get a kick out of it from a subjective viewpoint. Thus, the RiD cartoon is my guilty pleasure.

Whoa, I totally disagree. The American G1 cartoon has the best animation, stories, characters and voice acting. I still watch it actually, and it impresses me every time. Just because it was created 30 years ago doesn't make it inferior.

If anything, the new stuff accentuate its quality even more. Nowadays you either get Samurai Jack / Dexter's Laboratory type of animation; or CGI (which has always felt lifeless to me.) And in my opinion, reductive characters and storytelling.

[VirusCarnage]

Anyone here who felt that it was "objectively bad" but still "subjectively enjoyed" it?

I think that would be kinda tough to do.

Not entirely, as the concept of accepting a movie as "not a good movie" yet still finding enjoyment in it makes it into a "guilty pleasure".

Take the G1 cartoon, for instance. By today's standards, it's 98 episodes of mediocre storytelling, archaic animation, one- to two-dimensional characters, hokey science/logic, and purely non-nutritional substance. Yet, it is still beloved by many fans who, even after removing their nostalgia glasses, get some genuine enjoyment out of it. There are many fans who accept it for what it is, yet still find it delightful.

'Course, I am just referring to the fans who openly recognize it as being far from masterpiece quality and not those other particular fans who have been so blinded by their nostalgia into thinking that the G1 cartoon seriously is a masterpiece, but I digress.

As an example of my own, I see the RiD cartoon as hardly worthwhile from an objective viewpoint, yet still get a kick out of it from a subjective viewpoint. Thus, the RiD cartoon is my guilty pleasure.

Whoa, I totally disagree. The American G1 cartoon has the best animation, stories, characters and voice acting. I still watch it actually, and I'm impressed by it every time. Just because it was created 30 years ago doesn't make it inferior.

If anything, the new stuff accentuate its quality even more. Nowadays you either get Samurai Jack / Dexter's Laboratory type of animation; or CGI (which has always felt lifeless to me.) And in my opinion, reductive characters and storytelling.

I'm on the flip side, I think G1 possibly has some of the worst writing, and animation in the franchise (except for Energon.) The voice acting wasn't amazing either it was pretty average. I can't think about anything spectacular about the G1 cartoon.

[Rodimus Prime]

Which would explain his deteriorating physical condition from RoTF to DoTM,

I'm pretty sure he deteriorated in physical condition because Optimus Prime made him shoot a third of his own face off, before beating the slag out of him and leaving him to just sort of sit there and writhe and yell for Starscream.

And if he had his spark, he could have fixed himself, much like Prime did in AoE.