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Collected Thoughts on Dark Of The Moon (Spoilers)

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Collected Thoughts on Dark Of The Moon (Spoilers)

Postby Fires_Of_Inferno » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:01 pm

Motto: "Small things aren't worth being mad over."
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I feel that all of these posts regarding Dark Of The Moon can be condensed into one, that way I don't have to look for the applicable thread, post in it, and then look for the next applicable thread for all of my likes and dislikes about the film. So this thread is more for my convenience than anything, but anyway.

Let's start with the big things shall we? First off, the plot. After leaving the theater, I came to the conclusion that Hasbro showed Michael Bay The Ultimate Doom and Megatrons' Master Plan. Consorting with humans to exile the Autobots, teleporting Cybertron to Earth with a giant space bridge, it's all there. Now, those few episodes were probably some of the best ones from the G1 cartoon, and they were transitioned nicely into on-screen versions, but really, they could have come up with something a little more original. I blame the writing mostly, but still, Bay has a MUCH more punchable face.

Now onto the cast. The important cast I mean, not the humans (I'll deal with them later).

The Autobots in this movie were much more interesting than in the last movie. Clearly Arcee and Jolt are dead as they don't show up anywhere but the Twins show up when the Autobots are all rounded up onto the Xantium. Sideswipe I loved in the second movie, however he seems to be filling in Jazz's role, which should have gone to Ironhide.

Speaking of Ironhide, I liked how he was depicted as the second most bad-ass Autobot in this film, of course it was all to build up to him having a more tragic death. Shot from behind by Sentinel Prime using a round loaded with Cosmic Rust. Seems about right, how else would he be able to do it eh? Also, his death in the movie was about as proper a death as he could have been given. At least it was better than what he got in the 86' movie where they replaced all of the Autobot's armor with something weak like paper mache.... or Raditz (I hope to god at least one person gets that reference because then they'd be my favorite person ever).

Que, I liked him, he filled in for Wheeljack quite well, right up to him being dead. At least he was shown dying and wasn't just suddenly dead. I liked that he still had the role of supplying weapons too (even though he really didn't do much of that). I even liked his Einstein/mad scientist look and luminescent hair.

The Wreckers. Loved them, I was worried about what their personalities might be like given that they had mullets and one had a baseball hat styled head, but I really liked them.

Optimus. He seems to have stopped taking people's faces and heads off this time.

Brains and Wheelie, they were at least useful (Brains more than Wheelie of course). I easily prefer this version of Wheelie to all other versions. EASILY!

Dino. Goddamn you, Ferrari.

Sentinel Prime, Leonard Nemoy did a perfect job in voicing him for one, and secondly, I loved the viking-style beard and moustache. Also: the guy was a bad-ass in combat.

As for the Decepticons

Laserbeak was the most prominent Decepticon in this film, there's something wrong with that. However, as a character he was excellent. It took me a few minuted to get used to the fact that he could speak, but given the nature of the character, the fact that he could speak made sense.

Megatron reminded me of an emo kid in this film. He went from being the uncontested leader of the Decepticons to being what almost amounts to a background character. Even the fight between him and Optimus, which should have been the most epic part of the film, was anticlimactic. Optimus chops him in the face, then rips his head off, and that's it. Meanwhile the fight with Sentinel took twenty minutes. What in the hell happened between ROTF and DOTM to Megatron to turn him into such a wimp? Oh well, at least I know he'll be back in the fourth movie.

Starscream. After reading The Reign Of Starscream comic, I made the sad mistake of confusing THAT character with this character, and at first his comical death bothered me, but then, upon thinking of how Starscream was portrayed in the other movies before this one, it's very fitting.

Soundwave and Shockwave. These two should have been much bigger players than they were. Instead they were reduced to being Decepticon goons. Barricade was better characterized in this film than these two were! Bah.

I dunno what they called the giant drill thing, I like to call it Rumble because that goddamn fits, but it's apparently called Driller if you go by what that Teletran 1 says. I still prefer to call it Rumble.

The humans, I liked their role in this, it was much less prominent (though still central) than the previous films, they served their purpose. The airforce that blessedly absent from this movie. Thank f*#k too because there are only so many times you can puke and s#!+ out all your internal organs (and some of your external ones) in anger when the US air force defeats the Decepticons when the Autobots couldn't for millions of years.

Now onto a few smaller things I didn't like.

1: Why in the hell didn't Sentinel Prime take the Matrix when it was offered to him? That probably would have worked in their favor rather than refusing it.

2: There is no way one of those birdman suits would allow someone to glide through the air for that long or with that much control.

3: The humans just evaporated when the Decepticons shot them, leaving only their clothes behind, they must get their weapons from the same guys who made those Tripods in the War of the Worlds remake.

4: Why did Megatron downgrade his weapon from a giant cannon/sword to a shotgun?

5: Why are all the awesome Decepticons turned into generics?

6: Why aren't there any Autobot generics?

Ok, ok. Despite all the complaints I have regarding the movie, I actually liked it (besides the ending I mean). It actually shows that they're putting more effort into the whole franchise and that they're getting the necessary budget to do all they want to get done. I find myself actually hoping for a fourth installment rather than dreading it.
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Re: Collected Thoughts on Dark Of The Moon (Spoilers)

Postby TFRemarker » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:10 pm

1: Why in the hell didn't Sentinel Prime take the Matrix when it was offered to him? That probably would have worked in their favor rather than refusing it.

A: This is one of bit which is actually consistent with ROTF: in part 2 we learned that the Matrix cannot be found, it must be earned. As it happens, this follows nicely with SP not accepting the Matrix: he knows it will "reject" him thereby revealing that he is not noble/worthy. (A more simplified reason might be that SP isn't evil- just morally suspect- but even he realizes he is not worthy of the Matrix...but personally I like the first explanation better.)

3: The humans just evaporated when the Decepticons shot them, leaving only their clothes behind, they must get their weapons from the same guys who made those Tripods in the War of the Worlds remake.

A: This weapon allows the filmmakers to explain no dead bodies just lying around in every scene.

4: Why did Megatron downgrade his weapon from a giant cannon/sword to a shotgun?

A: Is this really a complaint about the movie? Respectfully, it's questions like this that cheapen legit points from fans. For example: LEGIT point- "why don't we see more interplay between robots" OR "why create new characters when there's plenty to choose from" OR "why not play up that Megatron has become Starscream in his jealousy of SP's power...it could have made for good robot drama!" (OR see below). NOT LEGIT point: "Why does Laserbeak talk?"

MY big question I have yet to see addressed: HOW does Sentinal Prime have ('earthy') auto parts (windshield, wheels, etc) in the Ark when he had never been to earth before? All the robots came from cybertron and scan earth vehicles, right? How did he become his alt mode....having never stepped foot on earth??? THAT is a legit point- and I look forward to people's replies.

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Re: Collected Thoughts on Dark Of The Moon (Spoilers)

Postby Xterminator » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:57 am

TFRemarker wrote:
MY big question I have yet to see addressed: HOW does Sentinal Prime have ('earthy') auto parts (windshield, wheels, etc) in the Ark when he had never been to earth before? All the robots came from cybertron and scan earth vehicles, right? How did he become his alt mode....having never stepped foot on earth??? THAT is a legit point- and I look forward to people's replies.

~tfr


I already gave a (possible) explanation to this question in another tread. I will just paste it here again ...

The producers just wanted to save money during the post-production by not having to render a cybertronian-mode for Sentinel Prime. As a bonus, they also didn't have to make the scene where he scans his earthly fire truck mode.

Why care about those details ? They don't even expect that the general public will notice that in each movie the cybertronians have a completely different reason to come to Earth. So why bother with 10sec of screen time where Sentinel Prime should be depicted as a pure-metal protoform ?

Another example of cost-savings during post-production: the scene in Africa where Megatron, Starscream & Soundwave meet. Soundwave is depicted as a robot after the scanning of the Mercedes alternate-mode. Does it make sense ? Of course not: it means soundwave drove all the way from Chicago to Africa for the meeting :-) !

The proper way to depict Soundwave in this scene would be to show him arriving as a Cybertronian jet and have him transformed into a kind of alien humanoid shape (no wheels, no shine white painting). But no, why render another soundwave for just a few seconds of screen time ? It is better to save the money, nobody will notice :-(
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Re: Collected Thoughts on Dark Of The Moon (Spoilers)

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:35 am

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Fires_Of_Inferno wrote:5: Why are all the awesome Decepticons turned into generics?


I'm not sure I understand your question. Awesome Decepticons? You mean the soldiers that jumped through the space bridge?

As far as I know, there don't seem to be such a thing as generics/drones in the movieverse. Unlike in TFP, drones/clones are never mentioned, and while the unnamed Con soldiers do look generic [the designers probably never bothered with them given the fact that they're just part of a cast of thousands], they're supposed to be individual bots.

Also, I don't think they're supposed to be generic as much as protoforms. In protoform, they don't look all that distinguishable from one another [check out Jazz and OP's protoforms in TF1.]

Fires_Of_Inferno wrote:6: Why aren't there any Autobot generics?


Well, like I said above, I don't think the concept of drones/generics/clones exist in the movieverse, and TF's look generic because they're in protoform. Now when DOTM begins,the Autobots have already arrived on Earth when the movies begin and naturally have already scanned vehicle modes for themselves. It's basically all the vehicle kibble and parts that make a TF unique.

That said, Laserbeak and the Dreads in the highway scene belong to what I call the "Smoke and Mirrors Club." They have no discernable alt mode kibble, and Laserbeak seems to be able to transform into anything he wants to without the necessary parts to show for it, a trait shared by the late Frenzy.
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Re: Collected Thoughts on Dark Of The Moon (Spoilers)

Postby Bleak5170 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:59 am

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Once again, Ratchet gets no respect, lol. Everybody seems to forget he's even in the movies, (which is understandable as he's been relegated to nothing more than background scenery).
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Re: Collected Thoughts on Dark Of The Moon (Spoilers)

Postby shamone » Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:48 am

the matrix thing, im not bitching but still why didnt he take it

The matrix had to be earned

- how did sentinal knwo this. the matrix went missing and the only ones who knew about it died , right

- the fallen could use it. so the earning it thing isnt really relevant is it
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Re: Collected Thoughts on Dark Of The Moon (Spoilers)

Postby TFRemarker » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:59 pm

How did Sentinal know about the matrix and its "earned" attribute?

A: I think it's safe to assume that a former leader of the autobots who once possessed the matrix, knows its capabilities and limitations (ie: not just anyone can posses it- one must be pure of heart)

Regarding the fallen: yes he "used" the matrix as a key to turn then weapon on in ROTF, but he didn't acquire it (put it in his chest as Prime does). This is good enough and consistent enough between ROTF and DOTM.

Incidentally, I offered a more nuanced explaanation in another thread: SP isn't evil- some part of him knows he has done wrong. Hs morals and ethics aren't pure- and he knows it- after making his deal with the devil. So he may have a "better angels" moment and not accept the matrix from OP who he still respects, clearly.

I'm just glad we can discuss this internal dilemma of a major TF character ( and how consistent the two movies are) for a change!!
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Re: Collected Thoughts on Dark Of The Moon (Spoilers)

Postby dirk2243 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:47 pm

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TFRemarker wrote:How did Sentinal know about the matrix and its "earned" attribute?

A: I think it's safe to assume that a former leader of the autobots who once possessed the matrix, knows its capabilities and limitations (ie: not just anyone can posses it- one must be pure of heart)

Regarding the fallen: yes he "used" the matrix as a key to turn then weapon on in ROTF, but he didn't acquire it (put it in his chest as Prime does). This is good enough and consistent enough between ROTF and DOTM.

Incidentally, I offered a more nuanced explaanation in another thread: SP isn't evil- some part of him knows he has done wrong. Hs morals and ethics aren't pure- and he knows it- after making his deal with the devil. So he may have a "better angels" moment and not accept the matrix from OP who he still respects, clearly.

I'm just glad we can discuss this internal dilemma of a major TF character ( and how consistent the two movies are) for a change!!


I don't think Sentinel knew Prime had the Matrix, but Prime could have told him about it. Not everything has to be on screen to "happen"

But I agree with you.....Sentinel knew he was doing wrong, he just thought it was the best choice I'd say.
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Re: Collected Thoughts on Dark Of The Moon (Spoilers)

Postby Fires_Of_Inferno » Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:49 pm

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A: Is this really a complaint about the movie? Respectfully, it's questions like this that cheapen legit points from fans. For example: LEGIT point- "why don't we see more interplay between robots" OR "why create new characters when there's plenty to choose from" OR "why not play up that Megatron has become Starscream in his jealousy of SP's power...it could have made for good robot drama!" (OR see below). NOT LEGIT point: "Why does Laserbeak talk?"

MY big question I have yet to see addressed: HOW does Sentinal Prime have ('earthy') auto parts (windshield, wheels, etc) in the Ark when he had never been to earth before? All the robots came from cybertron and scan earth vehicles, right? How did he become his alt mode....having never stepped foot on earth??? THAT is a legit point- and I look forward to people's replies.

~tfr[/quote]


I'm pretty sure everything I complain about is a legit point, complaining about weapon choices is as much a complaint about the movie as Optimu's choice of weapons is. You gotta remember who the filmmaker is and what the movie centers around. I don't have complaints about that (well, ok that's a lie, I do.). I was just focusing on the complaints I mentioned is all, but at least I now know that by asking about Megatron's weapon choice, everyone else's complaints about the movies are cheapened.
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