Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

AbsumZer0 wrote:I dare say that a lot of the people who wish he'd die in a dark alley aren't even Transformers fans. Bay is an extremely divisive director among typical movie-goers, among professional critics he's almost universally reviled, and there are a lot of people in Hollywood who dislike him on a personal level. You may not know this but there are more than a few snooty film-school professors who require their students to watch Bay's films in order to learn what NOT to do when directing a film. Even among his defenders a lot of them will admit that his only real strength is in car chases and blowing **** up. There are professional critics who would swear that he epitomizes everything that's wrong with Hollwood today. After Pearl Harbor there are probably more than a few WWII vets out there who'd like to kick the **** out of him too. Comments like the ones he's making aren't going to help defend himself against his detractors, it's only going to make people more bitter the next time his name is attached to something they had interest in (and I'm 90% sure Prince of Persia is going to flop).

Well, to be honest, there are quite a few snooty film professors who tell their students that anything mainstream is trash. I mean, this "On The Lot" reality show is a pretty good example. Film school students rail on the people who have no film school training and don't follow the "established rules", and still complain about how they don't get it, even after the judges say the person without film school training made the superior film.

I find Bay's film's entertaining, and apparently a good percentage of movie-goers feel the same way. I don't know the man personally, but I am a little surprised at the venom some people in Hollywood, some of whom have NEVER worked with him, spew. There are some actors, like Steve Buscemi and Michael Clark Duncan, who love working with him. I give Bay points for the fact he hasn't sunk to the personal attacks on actors who've really trashed him.

And honestly, whether it's because of flames on Optimus or because they don't like his work, wishing physical harm on the guy is ridiculous. All of those people have the ability to not buy a ticket, or change the channel when his movies are on TV.

KoH4711 wrote:

AbsumZer0 wrote:I dare say that a lot of the people who wish he'd die in a dark alley aren't even Transformers fans. Bay is an extremely divisive director among typical movie-goers, among professional critics he's almost universally reviled, and there are a lot of people in Hollywood who dislike him on a personal level. You may not know this but there are more than a few snooty film-school professors who require their students to watch Bay's films in order to learn what NOT to do when directing a film. Even among his defenders a lot of them will admit that his only real strength is in car chases and blowing **** up. There are professional critics who would swear that he epitomizes everything that's wrong with Hollwood today. After Pearl Harbor there are probably more than a few WWII vets out there who'd like to kick the **** out of him too. Comments like the ones he's making aren't going to help defend himself against his detractors, it's only going to make people more bitter the next time his name is attached to something they had interest in (and I'm 90% sure Prince of Persia is going to flop).

Well, to be honest, there are quite a few snooty film professors who tell their students that anything mainstream is trash. I mean, this "On The Lot" reality show is a pretty good example. Film school students rail on the people who have no film school training and don't follow the "established rules", and still complain about how they don't get it, even after the judges say the person without film school training made the superior film.

I find Bay's film's entertaining, and apparently a good percentage of movie-goers feel the same way. I don't know the man personally, but I am a little surprised at the venom some people in Hollywood, some of whom have NEVER worked with him, spew. There are some actors, like Steve Buscemi and Michael Clark Duncan, who love working with him. I give Bay points for the fact he hasn't sunk to the personal attacks on actors who've really trashed him.

And honestly, whether it's because of flames on Optimus or because they don't like his work, wishing physical harm on the guy is ridiculous. All of those people have the ability to not buy a ticket, or change the channel when his movies are on TV.

I though MCD walked of this project sighting "differences" with The Director. that doesn't sound like someone who is willing to work with Bay and we all know How Bruce Willis feels. But there is no reason to wish Physical harm on anyone who never Harmed you.

KoH4711 wrote:

AbsumZer0 wrote:I dare say that a lot of the people who wish he'd die in a dark alley aren't even Transformers fans. Bay is an extremely divisive director among typical movie-goers, among professional critics he's almost universally reviled, and there are a lot of people in Hollywood who dislike him on a personal level. You may not know this but there are more than a few snooty film-school professors who require their students to watch Bay's films in order to learn what NOT to do when directing a film. Even among his defenders a lot of them will admit that his only real strength is in car chases and blowing **** up. There are professional critics who would swear that he epitomizes everything that's wrong with Hollwood today. After Pearl Harbor there are probably more than a few WWII vets out there who'd like to kick the **** out of him too. Comments like the ones he's making aren't going to help defend himself against his detractors, it's only going to make people more bitter the next time his name is attached to something they had interest in (and I'm 90% sure Prince of Persia is going to flop).

Well, to be honest, there are quite a few snooty film professors who tell their students that anything mainstream is trash. I mean, this "On The Lot" reality show is a pretty good example. Film school students rail on the people who have no film school training and don't follow the "established rules", and still complain about how they don't get it, even after the judges say the person without film school training made the superior film.

I find Bay's film's entertaining, and apparently a good percentage of movie-goers feel the same way. I don't know the man personally, but I am a little surprised at the venom some people in Hollywood, some of whom have NEVER worked with him, spew. There are some actors, like Steve Buscemi and Michael Clark Duncan, who love working with him. I give Bay points for the fact he hasn't sunk to the personal attacks on actors who've really trashed him.

And honestly, whether it's because of flames on Optimus or because they don't like his work, wishing physical harm on the guy is ridiculous. All of those people have the ability to not buy a ticket, or change the channel when his movies are on TV.

I do agree with that. A lot of professors are elitists whose favorite film is probably 'The Red Balloon', and I really don't give a damn about the opinions of critics. They've never been very kind to Terry Gilliam either and he's one of my favorite directors. I even liked Tideland. Still, I think it's a huge mistake to blame all the anti-Bay sentiment on "the fanboys" when the guy has an entire decade worth of criticism and bitterness behind him.

Any project based on an established IP he chose to work on would have resulted in the same vocal critics and the larger the fanbase, the more critics. It was one thing when he was making films like The Island because apart from the folks who felt it hindered remake potential of some of their favorite sci-fi classic films and novels it was easy enough to ignore (just as the public did). However, if he'd have gotten attached to a live-action Thundercats or Strawberry Shortcake film you'd still find a considerable portion of fans of the IP who absolutely detest Bay and his films. If he can't deal with it then he can abandon his 'winning formula', spend a bit of time learning to get his cast to emote, stop the ridiculous amount of quick-cutting, stop selling blatant product placement to everyone and anyone, and make a balanced, quality film whose impressiveness can be attributed to someone other than the cgi and pyrotechnics crew. Of course, he won't do that, because that's what brings in the money... so who is he to complain about critics? You can't have your cake and eat it too.

And no, I don't think it's rational to wish physical harm on the guy either. Professional or financial harm... maybe.

Burn wrote:

Shadowman wrote:I don't mind that Jazz dies.

*KICKS SHADOWMAN IN THE NUTS REPEATEDLY AND PAINFULLY*

Some people are still trying to avoid spoilers you damn git!

Yes, please watch what you say! Not everyone has chosen to read to novel and/or script before seeing the movie and being surprised!

Roboto750 wrote:

Burn wrote:

Shadowman wrote:You put the lime in the coconut and drink 'em both together...

*KICKS SHADOWMAN IN THE NUTS REPEATEDLY AND PAINFULLY*

Some people are still trying to avoid spoilers you damn git!

Yes, please watch what you say! Not everyone had chosen to read to novel and/or script before seeing the movie and being surprised!

Fixed the original post. I assumed it was common knowledge by now.

Bay is right about us.


Yes we have the right to be upset at the little things that didn't need to be changed.

But where he's coming from is that there are so many different incarnations of TF's out there that this one is its own thing as well.

If they F up a classic character like Jazz, that's bad. But for the most part that sort of thing won't happen. I bet they stay true enough. I also bet that some of these characters won't even have a single line, which would be bad, but just you wait.


This movie is going to be a spectacle. Will it be awe inspiring or a bunch of loud bullshit? Will it actually be good?

That's a seperate question entirely.

A couple things.

I dont think the Transfans number in the millions, I would say high hundred thousands at most. And a lot of those are probably casual fans like myself. The hardcore fans would be in the 10 thousands I would say. Now I dont know any of this for a fact but those are just my estimates. In that interview I dont see anything wrong with what he said because he basically said some people need to chill the hell out. I think the inernet is going to be the downfall of some good promising properties because people by nature bitch way to much and the internet gives them an easier way to do it.

And as far as Alex Proyas goes I never knew he did I' Robot, but when he does stuff for "The Crow" people bitch and complain like there no tomorrow simply because every puts the first one on such a high pedestal.

Chris™ wrote:A couple things.

I dont think the Transfans number in the millions, I would say high hundred thousands at most. And a lot of those are probably casual fans like myself. The hardcore fans would be in the 10 thousands I would say. Now I dont know any of this for a fact but those are just my estimates. In that interview I dont see anything wrong with what he said because he basically said some people need to chill the hell out. I think the inernet is going to be the downfall of some good promising properties because people by nature bitch way to much and the internet gives them an easier way to do it.

And as far as Alex Proyas goes I never knew he did I' Robot, but when he does stuff for "The Crow" people bitch and complain like there no tomorrow simply because every puts the first one on such a high pedestal.

...Alex Proyas only did the first one. I don't even think it was that great a film, but the second one was basically the first with BDSM elements and a cameo by Iggy Pop, and the release of the third was sabotaged by the studio.

And if the fans aren't that numerous, then why even bother with the whining? And how are 'fans' going to be the downfall of anything? It isn't as if they're in any position to change anything. Even if it turns out to be the worst summer movie of the past 5 years it'll still make bank simply because of all the advertisements, publicity, and merchandise. For every one post on the internet complaining about it there are a at least a hundred commercial airings and action figures. Responding to criticism by whining and complaining is only going to encourage further criticism. If none of it is true then why acknowledge it?

AbsumZer0 wrote:

Chris™ wrote:A couple things.

I dont think the Transfans number in the millions, I would say high hundred thousands at most. And a lot of those are probably casual fans like myself. The hardcore fans would be in the 10 thousands I would say. Now I dont know any of this for a fact but those are just my estimates. In that interview I dont see anything wrong with what he said because he basically said some people need to chill the hell out. I think the inernet is going to be the downfall of some good promising properties because people by nature bitch way to much and the internet gives them an easier way to do it.

And as far as Alex Proyas goes I never knew he did I' Robot, but when he does stuff for "The Crow" people bitch and complain like there no tomorrow simply because every puts the first one on such a high pedestal.

...Alex Proyas only did the first one. I don't even think it was that great a film, but the second one was basically the first with BDSM elements and a cameo by Iggy Pop, and the release of the third was sabotaged by the studio.

And if the fans aren't that numerous, then why even bother with the whining? And how are 'fans' going to be the downfall of anything? It isn't as if they're in any position to change anything. Even if it turns out to be the worst summer movie of the past 5 years it'll still make bank simply because of all the advertisements, publicity, and merchandise. For every one post on the internet complaining about it there are a at least a hundred commercial airings and action figures. Responding to criticism by whining and complaining is only going to encourage further criticism. If none of it is true then why acknowledge it?

Your right on the Proyas part, I was thinkin abour Pressman(the producer)

Phategod1 wrote:I though MCD walked of this project sighting "differences" with The Director. that doesn't sound like someone who is willing to work with Bay and we all know How Bruce Willis feels. But there is no reason to wish Physical harm on anyone who never Harmed you.

Huh... I read when he was shown as off the movie, a scheduling conflict was cited and he was actually bummed that he couldn't be in Transformers with Bay directing. Then again, from everything I've heard of MCD, he's not the kind of guy to air a private disagreement publically.

AbsumZer0 wrote:I do agree with that. A lot of professors are elitists whose favorite film is probably 'The Red Balloon', and I really don't give a damn about the opinions of critics. They've never been very kind to Terry Gilliam either and he's one of my favorite directors. I even liked Tideland. Still, I think it's a huge mistake to blame all the anti-Bay sentiment on "the fanboys" when the guy has an entire decade worth of criticism and bitterness behind him.

Before I changed majors, a professor I really liked had his mentor come out, this really well respected film prof from Harvard. He brought his movie, which was, I kid you not, a machine someone from the school restored on a rotating pedistal, with text and different manipulation of the film stock. This went on for over an hour. I didn't change my major IMMEDIATELY after that, but sometimes I still wonder why. As for critics, I think the old saying, "Those who cannot do, review" holds true in a lot of cases. It would be nice if they could judge films on their own merits, rather than the same measuring stick(you just can't review Schindler's List the same way you do Shrek).

I think a big part of Bay's reaction is, I just don't know that he expected such passion from fans of a "toy line". I think he's "getting it" more and more, though if the rumors provde true and he runs off to Prince of Persia, I don't know that I could fault him. We're a little scary, all of us.

As I've said before, I'm hoping that the movie will turn out to at least be two hours of good entertainment. And while Bay may not be perfect, there were worse options out there. (So glad Emmerich isn't directing this...)

And, on a side note, I have to say, I've enjoyed the discussion on this topic. It's nice to have a debate without a lot of name calling and such. It would have been perfect, if not the giant spoiler that appeared earlier... -_-

I am not giving this man my money.