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A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot. These include such things as unlikely behaviour or actions of characters, illogical or impossible events, events happening for no apparent reason, or statements/events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.
-Wikipedia definition of plot holes
Barricade seems to disappear after the highway scene, as he is never shown again in the movie or the sequel.
Also unclear is why the military thought they could smuggle the All Spark out of town on a slow-moving helicopter, when fast-flying guys like Starscream and Megatron were around and well aware of the cube's location.
Why didn't Bumblebee use the All Spark to restore himself as Frenzy had done? Most likely because he was unaware the Allspark had such healing properties.
Fans have speculated that Starscream actually participated in the F-22 attack run on Megatron. While there's no concrete evidence either way, it doesn't make much sense for him to be destroying the jets beforehand if he's just going to turn around and help them in their mission a few seconds later. When asked about it, screenwriter Roberto Orci explicitly refused to address this theory since it would pose a plot thread for the sequel.
For that matter, the fact that Starscream completely incapacitates Ironhide and Ratchet (they're absent from the last eleven minutes of the fight) is not made clear. When we last see them, they are falling down, but Ironhide is still talking and moving.
Epps emphatically states that F-22 pilots would never fly between buildings, as they'd just observed Starscream doing. Yet a few minutes later, that's exactly what the real F-22s do.
The denizens of Mission City are remarkably well-composed considering that global communications networks have been shut down. You'd think there'd be a bit more "panic in the streets"... especially with all the audible explosions, and people fleeing from previous battlegrounds. Yet nobody ever panics until those freaking giant robots come literally crashing into the next nearby building. You'd think the girl whose steering wheel is brought to life by the Allspark would have bigger problems than Sam denting her car... such as those giant robots fighting everywhere. Weirdness censor doesn't even begin to describe this.
Mission City itself.
Most of the NEST and American soldiers are seen using small-caliber arms such as assault rifles, machine guns and sniper rifles against the Decepticons, despite the previous film establishing that "high-heat" sabot rounds were the only means of penetrating Decepticon armour. Even if they somehow figured out how to make small caliber ammunition achieve the "high heat" required to damage Decepticon armour, it is extremely unlikely that such low-powered weapons would do any meaningful damage that warrants such widespread usage. After all, in real life, you can't kill a tank with a machine gun, well, unless you're in G.I. Joe.
The notion that a big metal box (containing a complex electronic mechanism shouting to be released) would ever make it through airport luggage screening is a bit on the implausible side. The novelization of the film attributes this to Mikaela's Epic Hotness distracting the guard into just letting her through; she also claims that the box contains expensive mechanic's tools which might look strange in an x-ray. Neither explanation is present in the film itself, however.
When Alice attacks Sam and his friends, the box Wheelie is imprisoned within is taken along, but the box is not seen when Mikela and Leo escape from the foundry in Bumblebee (the box should still be inside the wreckage of the car Mikaela hotwired at the college).
Given the Autobots are part of NEST and are dependent on the US Air Force for transportation around the world, it is not clear why Major Lennox had to be alerted to the fact the Autobots were on the east coast of the United States. Do the Autobot normally go on unexplained joyrides?
Where does Mikaela get the padding and gauze to bandage up Sam's hand?
When Jetfire teleports to Egypt, Wheelie is seen landing by him, but disappears until the group reaches the border guards. After they arrive at the pyramids, Wheelie is seen rolling in with the quartet of humans, but is never seen again.
There's no rational reason for Simmons to climb the pyramid after Devastator. It looks like he's enabling the Navy ship to "fire on his position", which is useful when the firer can't see the target. However, as we find out just before the railgun is fired, the ship can see the pyramid. (And railguns are line-of-sight weapons, anyway.) So, Simmons didn't need to climb; he could have stayed someplace safe, called the ship, and told them, "Take a look at the pyramid, and shoot the giant robot tearing it up." It's also hard to believe he wasn't crushed by the flood of pyramid stones, which at one point are raining down on all four sides of the structure.
Wing Saber II wrote:A thing i'd like to ask about:
Wasn't Whellie one of the Transformers created by the shard in Sam's house?
If so, How does he have a mission, and how is he already a Decepticon?
If not, why would they send him to get the shard? He's small, so he can be easily defeated, and he's loud and not to smart, so he wouldn't be good for sneaking in and grabbing it
dirk2243 wrote:Also, rail guns aren't on ships like that at this current time. This was probably mostly for dramatization of the movie.
Capt.Failure wrote:dirk2243 wrote:Also, rail guns aren't on ships like that at this current time. This was probably mostly for dramatization of the movie.
Yeah, I didn't list that since it's a common belief (at least what I've seen) that if the military is testing a "prototype" than that means they've already wheeled out a working variant. Didn't we have SR-71's in the air years before they "debuted" for the first time? Understandable, of course, since they ran classified missions.
Plus in the film Simmons still called the railgun a prototype.
dirk2243 wrote:Capt.Failure wrote:dirk2243 wrote:Also, rail guns aren't on ships like that at this current time. This was probably mostly for dramatization of the movie.
Yeah, I didn't list that since it's a common belief (at least what I've seen) that if the military is testing a "prototype" than that means they've already wheeled out a working variant. Didn't we have SR-71's in the air years before they "debuted" for the first time? Understandable, of course, since they ran classified missions.
Plus in the film Simmons still called the railgun a prototype.
Good call. I'll push that believe button there
dirk2243 wrote:Here is a question I have. Not so much a hole, but perhaps a forgotten detail? Megs was offline underwater and I'm assuming Brawl, Blackout, and perhaps Bonecrusher were close by. Did they have to really kill the little one for parts? Couldn't just look around?
Rodimus Prime wrote:Barricade was in Revenge of the Fallen, just for a moment. He was the one who grabbed Sam's parents off the street in Paris.
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
Capt.Failure wrote:Epps emphatically states that F-22 pilots would never fly between buildings, as they'd just observed Starscream doing. Yet a few minutes later, that's exactly what the real F-22s do.
Yeah that one was pretty bad.
dirk2243 wrote:Here is a question I have. Not so much a hole, but perhaps a forgotten detail? Megs was offline underwater and I'm assuming Brawl, Blackout, and perhaps Bonecrusher were close by. Did they have to really kill the little one for parts? Couldn't just look around?
shamone wrote:call them plot holes, call them gaps in logic they exist
Explanations like, rule of drama, rule of comedy arent really explanations but excuses.
As for other plot holes/gaps in logic
- how come bumblebee couldnt detect the pretender
- why did the primes sacrifice themselves if they were the only ones who could stop him
- how does one become a descendent of a prime. How do TF's propogate / (i dont want bay to answer that one)
- Why did they place the matrix, the key to the sun eater, so close to the sun eater.
- why did sam and the warrior goddess decide to walk a few miles to prime, when bee was beside them and could have driven them in a matter of minutes
- what was bee doing from that point until he turned up later to protect sam
- why did simmons need to climb the pyramid to say fire on my co-ordinates. surely the great pyramids of giza's co-ordinates would be pretty well known
- why didnt they destroy the sun eater as opposed to devestator. The rason being egypt wouldn tlike it. They just entered egypt without permission, there was already a diplomatic incident in place.
- how did the population of mission city/la all get MIB mind zapped in order for the TF's to be a secret. likewise the citizens in Shanghai
Tekka wrote:I'd hazard a guess that our friends have incorrectly labelled these very weak story elements as plot holes simply because there's no familiar common term for them that comes to mind. Make of that what you will.
I'm curious as to why you'd bring this up again though.Are you a glutton for punishment or just love fanning the flames?
shamone wrote:call them plot holes, call them gaps in logic they exist
Explanations like, rule of drama, rule of comedy arent really explanations but excuses.
As for other plot holes/gaps in logic
- how come bumblebee couldnt detect the pretender
- why did the primes sacrifice themselves if they were the only ones who could stop him
- how does one become a descendent of a prime. How do TF's propogate / (i dont want bay to answer that one)
- Why did they place the matrix, the key to the sun eater, so close to the sun eater.
- why did sam and the warrior goddess decide to walk a few miles to prime, when bee was beside them and could have driven them in a matter of minutes
- what was bee doing from that point until he turned up later to protect sam
- why did simmons need to climb the pyramid to say fire on my co-ordinates. surely the great pyramids of giza's co-ordinates would be pretty well known
- why didnt they destroy the sun eater as opposed to devestator. The rason being egypt wouldn tlike it. They just entered egypt without permission, there was already a diplomatic incident in place.
- how did the population of mission city/la all get MIB mind zapped in order for the TF's to be a secret. likewise the citizens in Shanghai
dirk2243 wrote:shamone wrote:call them plot holes, call them gaps in logic they exist
Explanations like, rule of drama, rule of comedy arent really explanations but excuses.
As for other plot holes/gaps in logic
- how come bumblebee couldnt detect the pretender
- why did the primes sacrifice themselves if they were the only ones who could stop him
- how does one become a descendent of a prime. How do TF's propogate / (i dont want bay to answer that one)
- Why did they place the matrix, the key to the sun eater, so close to the sun eater.
- why did sam and the warrior goddess decide to walk a few miles to prime, when bee was beside them and could have driven them in a matter of minutes
- what was bee doing from that point until he turned up later to protect sam
- why did simmons need to climb the pyramid to say fire on my co-ordinates. surely the great pyramids of giza's co-ordinates would be pretty well known
- why didnt they destroy the sun eater as opposed to devestator. The rason being egypt wouldn tlike it. They just entered egypt without permission, there was already a diplomatic incident in place.
- how did the population of mission city/la all get MIB mind zapped in order for the TF's to be a secret. likewise the citizens in Shanghai
Not all are plotholes, more of....just require re-watching again.
Bumblebee did detect the Pretender. He doused her with antifreeze and made her bump her head on the dashboard.
Why did they walk instead of take bumblebee..... Sam told him to be the decoy and draw the decepticons away. (Mostly Starscream since he was shooting at them) which is what he was doing until he showed up later also.
The MIB clearing the citizens minds thing....ehhh, it's like in the begining of the movie where they were posting the Shanghi video and got scooped. People that hadn't actually seen it could be thinking it's a conspiracy theory. (like people believe about 9-11) And the UFO thing. do they exist or no?
Your other points have some valid excuses, but in the end it's a movie.
Capt.Failure wrote:Tekka wrote:I'd hazard a guess that our friends have incorrectly labelled these very weak story elements as plot holes simply because there's no familiar common term for them that comes to mind. Make of that what you will.
I'm curious as to why you'd bring this up again though.Are you a glutton for punishment or just love fanning the flames?
It's because the vast majority of people who comment on this don't know what they're talking about. While some elements of the film's stories are indeed weak they're a far cry from a plot hole as the term is defined (see the top of the first post).shamone wrote:call them plot holes, call them gaps in logic they exist
Explanations like, rule of drama, rule of comedy arent really explanations but excuses.
As for other plot holes/gaps in logic
You've just demonstrated that you don't know the difference between a plot hole and a trope. Now, on to your examples...- how come bumblebee couldnt detect the pretender
She's an infiltrator, and we know Autobots and Decepticons can shield their energy signatures at times.- why did the primes sacrifice themselves if they were the only ones who could stop him
"The Fallen was stronger than his brothers..." is a fact Jetfire outright states. It took a Prime's power combined with that of a Seeker to kill him for good. The original Primes combined could only take him down long enough to hide the Matrix. These are well known facts you chose to ignore.- how does one become a descendent of a prime. How do TF's propogate / (i dont want bay to answer that one)
Transformer reproduction is never clearly defined in any of the sattelite media or other continuities. The movieverse only elaborates on the fact that the AllSpark is involved to some degree, but all Transformers it produces are feral. The fanboy in me wants to speculate transferal of an aspect of a "parent" spark is required to give the Transformer sentience, but I'll give you half this one.- Why did they place the matrix, the key to the sun eater, so close to the sun eater.
1. The Fallen was right there.
2. They couldn't kill him.
3. It was do or die, and Earth hung in the balance.- why did sam and the warrior goddess decide to walk a few miles to prime, when bee was beside them and could have driven them in a matter of minutes
We argued back and forth about this before, but upon a recent viewing of RotF this one falls apart as a plot hole even more. Simmons and Leo with the Twins, and 'bee by himself distracted Star Scream. Sam and Mikaela took off on foot. However, it wasn't until the pair approached the ruined villiage that the battle lines were drawn. Until that moment it appeared to be a clear sprint to Optimus and the soldiers.- what was bee doing from that point until he turned up later to protect sam
The fact he's clearly trying to stay hidden indicates he was sneaking.- why did simmons need to climb the pyramid to say fire on my co-ordinates. surely the great pyramids of giza's co-ordinates would be pretty well known
Did you read my second post? For Simmons it's something his character would do. The guy's insane, remember? I thought two movies established this.- why didnt they destroy the sun eater as opposed to devestator. The rason being egypt wouldn tlike it. They just entered egypt without permission, there was already a diplomatic incident in place.
You don't know how railguns work. Prototypes used in testing right now require complete barrel realignment after a single shot, a process that takes hours. Considering the Sun Harvester was still burried mostly, Devestator was the obvious threat. Also I'm not sure you understand the political fallout of destroying a histoic landmark without permission, especially with the Egyptians and the Pyramids.- how did the population of mission city/la all get MIB mind zapped in order for the TF's to be a secret. likewise the citizens in Shanghai
As demonstrated, money talks or in this case prevents talking. Sam's parents would basically get anything they wanted to keep quiet, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that the US government paid the entire city to keep their mouths shut. Though it's clearly becoming a problem considering how Galloway reacted.
Capt.Failure wrote:Attempting to say I'm covering up non-existant gaps in logic with tropes only shows further that you're selectively reading what I type, and selectively paying attention when watching these films. Just because you don't want to pay attention doesn't mean we didn't. You can't even remember certian aspects of the films.
And since I don't feel like quoting you I'll just list the responses:
1. Because when two Transformers (ala Jetfire/Optimus from Armada as opposed to Combiner teams) combine in any media, the power is multiplied, not added. That's basic knowledge. A Prime x a Seeker (who are nearly equal to Primes) is alot more strength than seven Primes independant of each other. One of these combinations in Beast Wars was nearly able to withstand a direct hit from the main gun of the Nemesis, which can level cities.
2. Because, last I checked, Starscream was among those Decepticons hunting them. He reported back to Megatron and took off to find Sam. Again, pay attention for once.
3. Because how are they supposed to know what happens when you shoot the thing? What happens when you disarm a bomb with a sledge hammer? 50/50 chance you make it stop working or set it off. This thing blows up suns.
4. I don't know or care who "The Miz" is. And no, this isn't a plot hole. Read up to us discussing "weak story elements." This is one of those. Again some basic knowledge.
shamone wrote:Capt.Failure wrote:Attempting to say I'm covering up non-existant gaps in logic with tropes only shows further that you're selectively reading what I type, and selectively paying attention when watching these films. Just because you don't want to pay attention doesn't mean we didn't. You can't even remember certian aspects of the films.
And since I don't feel like quoting you I'll just list the responses:
1. Because when two Transformers (ala Jetfire/Optimus from Armada as opposed to Combiner teams) combine in any media, the power is multiplied, not added. That's basic knowledge. A Prime x a Seeker (who are nearly equal to Primes) is alot more strength than seven Primes independant of each other. One of these combinations in Beast Wars was nearly able to withstand a direct hit from the main gun of the Nemesis, which can level cities.
2. Because, last I checked, Starscream was among those Decepticons hunting them. He reported back to Megatron and took off to find Sam. Again, pay attention for once.
3. Because how are they supposed to know what happens when you shoot the thing? What happens when you disarm a bomb with a sledge hammer? 50/50 chance you make it stop working or set it off. This thing blows up suns.
4. I don't know or care who "The Miz" is. And no, this isn't a plot hole. Read up to us discussing "weak story elements." This is one of those. Again some basic knowledge.
im saying you are using tropes for certain excuses like
you are excusing a post 9/11 airport security letting a metal box that has noise coming out of it bumping around independently as a rule of comedy - yeh im selective
the combiners rule is stated where in this movie, or is that an assumption you are making.
well if that was the last time you looked, look at the scene again. Screamer doesnt go looking for sam at all. He hits emp and reports back to megatron
Seriously if you firing a rail gun with that much power, within the close vicinity of a sun eater, its likely to set it off, juts as much as if you were to aim directly at it. if its going to go off, from that range a direct hit or not probably wont make much difference.
its a gap in logic, or weak story telling or a plot hole. it could be all and one of those things. its not selective.
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