Cheesinator wrote:Going only by the novel (which we can assume to have been the original story), Megs does hold true to his word, and leaves Earth with the remaining Decepticons. And even if you choose to ignore the novel, the point still stands that Megatron went out of his way to save Optimus; something he would not have done if he genuinely wanted to keep slaughtering humans. Like I said, the whole thing with him saving Optimus doesn't really make sense in any context (if he's still evil, it's downright stupid, and if he's genuinely 'good' now...it's a bit sudden and groundless).
The fact that Optimus is a big fan of freedom and peace should be enough for him to...oh, I don't know, NOT decapitate someone who'd saved his life and was trying to peacefully end a war. That's the precise kind of ruthless, bloodthirsty attitude that the Deceptions generally possess, and that the Autobots are supposed to be fighting against.
Cheesinator wrote:Next sentence started with "And even if you choose to ignore the novel", genius.
And if you're going to immediately dismiss everything that's not in the film itself, don't bother making lots of assumptions based purely on conjecture, which is what you were doing.
Going solely by canon, Megatron is being pretty chill in the last few minutes of DOTM, and Optimus just flips out.
Cheesinator wrote:Going only by the novel (which we can assume to have been the original story), Megs does hold true to his word, and leaves Earth with the remaining Decepticons.
And even if you choose to ignore the novel, the point still stands that Megatron went out of his way to save Optimus; something he would not have done if he genuinely wanted to keep slaughtering humans.
Cheesinator wrote:Like I said, the whole thing with him saving Optimus doesn't really make sense in any context (if he's still evil, it's downright stupid, and if he's genuinely 'good' now...it's a bit sudden and groundless).
Cheesinator wrote:The fact that Optimus is a big fan of freedom and peace should be enough for him to...oh, I don't know, NOT decapitate someone who'd saved his life and was trying to peacefully end a war. That's the precise kind of ruthless, bloodthirsty attitude that the Deceptions generally possess, and that the Autobots are supposed to be fighting against.
deathy wrote:Megatron had a starring role in the 2007 movie & had a glorious death.
Hasbro chose to cheapen movie verses megatron's deathy by bringing megatron back in ROTF & DOTM. because Hasbro views megatron & optimus Prime as their flag ship captains on each faction side in the media/toys/comics/cartoons.
the main reasons why megatron wasn't the main bad guy in both ROTF & Dotm. was because he wasn't suspose to be their,he was suspose to be dead. hasbro forced him back in.
most action movies that have heroes fighting a bunch of villians. kills of one main bad guy in a movie. then moves on to the next bad guy in the next movie & so forth. examples: the various different batman movies,spiderman movies,etc...
Autobot032 wrote:Cheesinator wrote:Going only by the novel (which we can assume to have been the original story), Megs does hold true to his word, and leaves Earth with the remaining Decepticons.
And even if you choose to ignore the novel, the point still stands that Megatron went out of his way to save Optimus; something he would not have done if he genuinely wanted to keep slaughtering humans.
Ah, no we can't assume it. It says it's based off of the screenplay, written by Ehren Kruger. That doesn't mean the author of the novel didn't make creative changes. The screenplay/script that Bay keeps on his person, is and always has been THE official story. It's not a matter of ignoring the novel, it's a matter of fact. The novel is based on, but not verbatim.
Even you can't argue that.
Megatron only saved Optimus for a reason. A reason that would further his agenda, not out of mercy. And he would've ended up slaughtering humans. Where would he get the resources to rebuild, other than Earth? I mean, Cybertron's sitting in our orbit (although, considering it's size, technically we were orbiting it...), what's to stop him from killing humans at that point? Can you honestly tell me, or anyone that? I don't think so.Cheesinator wrote:Like I said, the whole thing with him saving Optimus doesn't really make sense in any context (if he's still evil, it's downright stupid, and if he's genuinely 'good' now...it's a bit sudden and groundless).
Of course it makes sense.
On the one hand, he and Optimus could team up to take out Sentinel, which they pretty much did.
On the other hand, he could use Optimus to help rebuild and then once he's outlived his usefulness, BAM, Autobots go bye bye.
Plus, if Prime had been stupid enough to take the offer, Megatron would be leader once more. His way, his rule, no questions. He would be a God among mortals, basically. Prime wants peace, so if his enemy offers a truce, he must be willing to take it, right? Problem is, Megatron was wrong. Prime wants peace, but not through tyranny.Cheesinator wrote:The fact that Optimus is a big fan of freedom and peace should be enough for him to...oh, I don't know, NOT decapitate someone who'd saved his life and was trying to peacefully end a war. That's the precise kind of ruthless, bloodthirsty attitude that the Deceptions generally possess, and that the Autobots are supposed to be fighting against.
Megatron didn't save his life for a good reason. It could even be argued that he was so blinded by his rage after the humiliation that Sentinel publicly gave him, that he temporarily lost his sense.
There was no peaceful resolution to the war. When someone who's just killed nearly a million human beings offers you a truce in which HE rules all of you, while holding a shotgun, that ain't peace. That's just a way to win, and he wasn't expecting Optimus to say "Screw it, and screw you."
Optimus was fighting a war. He was defending us. If it wasn't for Megatron screwing around, the Autobots may have never found Sentinel Prime. If he hadn't been revived, Ironhide and the twins wouldn't have been murdered in cold blood. They might've bit the bullet in the war at some point, but they wouldn't have been murdered. They didn't really get a chance to fight, it was a sneak attack. And it's all Megatron's doing.
Prime's response was reasonable. To both Megatron and Sentinel.
This ain't G1. No one's going to be holding hands, singing songs, and figuring out who's the next Brony Of The Year. This was war and someone had to win. Win, the Autobots did.
Autobot032 wrote:Cheesinator wrote:Going only by the novel (which we can assume to have been the original story), Megs does hold true to his word, and leaves Earth with the remaining Decepticons.
And even if you choose to ignore the novel, the point still stands that Megatron went out of his way to save Optimus; something he would not have done if he genuinely wanted to keep slaughtering humans.
Ah, no we can't assume it. It says it's based off of the screenplay, written by Ehren Kruger. That doesn't mean the author of the novel didn't make creative changes. The screenplay/script that Bay keeps on his person, is and always has been THE official story. It's not a matter of ignoring the novel, it's a matter of fact. The novel is based on, but not verbatim.
Even you can't argue that.
Megatron only saved Optimus for a reason. A reason that would further his agenda, not out of mercy. And he would've ended up slaughtering humans. Where would he get the resources to rebuild, other than Earth? I mean, Cybertron's sitting in our orbit (although, considering it's size, technically we were orbiting it...), what's to stop him from killing humans at that point? Can you honestly tell me, or anyone that? I don't think so.
Autobot032 wrote:Cheesinator wrote:Like I said, the whole thing with him saving Optimus doesn't really make sense in any context (if he's still evil, it's downright stupid, and if he's genuinely 'good' now...it's a bit sudden and groundless).
Of course it makes sense.
On the one hand, he and Optimus could team up to take out Sentinel, which they pretty much did.
On the other hand, he could use Optimus to help rebuild and then once he's outlived his usefulness, BAM, Autobots go bye bye.
Plus, if Prime had been stupid enough to take the offer, Megatron would be leader once more. His way, his rule, no questions. He would be a God among mortals, basically. Prime wants peace, so if his enemy offers a truce, he must be willing to take it, right? Problem is, Megatron was wrong. Prime wants peace, but not through tyranny.
Autobot032 wrote:Cheesinator wrote:The fact that Optimus is a big fan of freedom and peace should be enough for him to...oh, I don't know, NOT decapitate someone who'd saved his life and was trying to peacefully end a war. That's the precise kind of ruthless, bloodthirsty attitude that the Deceptions generally possess, and that the Autobots are supposed to be fighting against.
Megatron didn't save his life for a good reason. It could even be argued that he was so blinded by his rage after the humiliation that Sentinel publicly gave him, that he temporarily lost his sense.
There was no peaceful resolution to the war. When someone who's just killed nearly a million human beings offers you a truce in which HE rules all of you, while holding a shotgun, that ain't peace. That's just a way to win, and he wasn't expecting Optimus to say "Screw it, and screw you."
Optimus was fighting a war. He was defending us. If it wasn't for Megatron screwing around, the Autobots may have never found Sentinel Prime. If he hadn't been revived, Ironhide and the twins wouldn't have been murdered in cold blood. They might've bit the bullet in the war at some point, but they wouldn't have been murdered. They didn't really get a chance to fight, it was a sneak attack. And it's all Megatron's doing.
Prime's response was reasonable. To both Megatron and Sentinel.
This ain't G1. No one's going to be holding hands, singing songs, and figuring out who's the next Brony Of The Year. This was war and someone had to win. Win, the Autobots did.
Cheesinator wrote:I only referred to the novel in regards to the 'what if' scenario of Optimus accepting Megatron's truce. The point being that, people are saying with certainty that Megatron would have just kept killing if Optimus had agreed in the movie, but the only official media exploring that scenario depicts him sticking to his word and leaving peacefully (hell, one could even say he's leaving on friendly terms with Optimus; promising to send for the Autobots when Cybertron is habitable).
Not saying that the novel ending is any more realistic, or has any bearing on the movie ending. It's just a good counterpoint for those calling bullsh*t on Megatron's truce in the movie.
Cheesinator wrote:Autobot032 wrote:Cheesinator wrote:Going only by the novel (which we can assume to have been the original story), Megs does hold true to his word, and leaves Earth with the remaining Decepticons.
And even if you choose to ignore the novel, the point still stands that Megatron went out of his way to save Optimus; something he would not have done if he genuinely wanted to keep slaughtering humans.
Ah, no we can't assume it. It says it's based off of the screenplay, written by Ehren Kruger. That doesn't mean the author of the novel didn't make creative changes. The screenplay/script that Bay keeps on his person, is and always has been THE official story. It's not a matter of ignoring the novel, it's a matter of fact. The novel is based on, but not verbatim.
Even you can't argue that.
Megatron only saved Optimus for a reason. A reason that would further his agenda, not out of mercy. And he would've ended up slaughtering humans. Where would he get the resources to rebuild, other than Earth? I mean, Cybertron's sitting in our orbit (although, considering it's size, technically we were orbiting it...), what's to stop him from killing humans at that point? Can you honestly tell me, or anyone that? I don't think so.
True. Novels are ignored then. By your own logic though, we can make no assumptions at all regarding Megatron’s motives and what he would have done post-DOTM.
And if you’d seen the movie, you’d know that Cybertron is now destroyed. He has no reason to enslave the humans. Even if he did want to enslave humans, it would make even less sense that he actively prevented Optimus’ death. Optimus is his biggest obstacle in that regard, so why save him?
Cheesinator wrote:Autobot032 wrote:Cheesinator wrote:Like I said, the whole thing with him saving Optimus doesn't really make sense in any context (if he's still evil, it's downright stupid, and if he's genuinely 'good' now...it's a bit sudden and groundless).
Of course it makes sense.
On the one hand, he and Optimus could team up to take out Sentinel, which they pretty much did.
On the other hand, he could use Optimus to help rebuild and then once he's outlived his usefulness, BAM, Autobots go bye bye.
Plus, if Prime had been stupid enough to take the offer, Megatron would be leader once more. His way, his rule, no questions. He would be a God among mortals, basically. Prime wants peace, so if his enemy offers a truce, he must be willing to take it, right? Problem is, Megatron was wrong. Prime wants peace, but not through tyranny.
Megatron beat Sentinel with no assistance from Optimus whatsoever. Again, if you’d seen the movie you’d know that. And if he wants to keep making evil schemes, Optimus would obviously keep opposing him, so there’s no reason to keep him alive unless Megatron was being sincere. The only real motivation he gives in-canon is that he wants to be in charge. If he wanted to be tyrannical and in charge, he'd have let Optimus die and then kill Sentinel. The fact that he saved Optimus means he is clearly willing to make compromises on pretty much everything else (given that “rule everything” and “kill Optimus” have been his two biggest key goals for the entire series so far).
Cheesinator wrote:Autobot032 wrote:Cheesinator wrote:The fact that Optimus is a big fan of freedom and peace should be enough for him to...oh, I don't know, NOT decapitate someone who'd saved his life and was trying to peacefully end a war. That's the precise kind of ruthless, bloodthirsty attitude that the Deceptions generally possess, and that the Autobots are supposed to be fighting against.
Megatron didn't save his life for a good reason. It could even be argued that he was so blinded by his rage after the humiliation that Sentinel publicly gave him, that he temporarily lost his sense.
There was no peaceful resolution to the war. When someone who's just killed nearly a million human beings offers you a truce in which HE rules all of you, while holding a shotgun, that ain't peace. That's just a way to win, and he wasn't expecting Optimus to say "Screw it, and screw you."
Optimus was fighting a war. He was defending us. If it wasn't for Megatron screwing around, the Autobots may have never found Sentinel Prime. If he hadn't been revived, Ironhide and the twins wouldn't have been murdered in cold blood. They might've bit the bullet in the war at some point, but they wouldn't have been murdered. They didn't really get a chance to fight, it was a sneak attack. And it's all Megatron's doing.
Prime's response was reasonable. To both Megatron and Sentinel.
This ain't G1. No one's going to be holding hands, singing songs, and figuring out who's the next Brony Of The Year. This was war and someone had to win. Win, the Autobots did.
You’re contradicting yourself. You just said Megatron had reason to save Optimus, and now you’re saying he doesn’t. You also said the novel is to be ignored, and the Twins’ death is a novel-only occurrence. They’re not in the movie.
Cheesinator wrote:Anyway, the movie ends almost immediately after Optimus kills Sentinel. Evidently, the war is won, regardless of the status of Megatron. He should CERTAINLY be held accountable for his actions, but in light of his recent turn, his execution at Optimus’ hand seemed a little excessive.
deathy wrote:I also saw the DOTM movie.
Lets get one fact straight. Megatron Didn't beat/defeat Sentinel prime in a fair fight.
Megatron attacked sentinel prime from the back when he was looking/expecting it. to make matters worse sentinel prime was a bit exausted due to him fighting optimus prime.
this is called cheating or/and a dis-honable defeat of one's opponent.
had megatron taken on sentinel prime face to face,he would have lost the fight. because DOTM megatron was in a weakened/battle damaged state. due to his injuries he substained in the ROTF movie.
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
5150 Cruiser wrote:deathy wrote:I also saw the DOTM movie.
Lets get one fact straight. Megatron Didn't beat/defeat Sentinel prime in a fair fight.
Megatron attacked sentinel prime from the back when he was looking/expecting it. to make matters worse sentinel prime was a bit exausted due to him fighting optimus prime.
this is called cheating or/and a dis-honable defeat of one's opponent.
had megatron taken on sentinel prime face to face,he would have lost the fight. because DOTM megatron was in a weakened/battle damaged state. due to his injuries he substained in the ROTF movie.
Lets also take another point into concideration...
For the most part, all the decepticon generals (by generals i mean main characters) such as shockwave, Starscream, Soundwave etc;.. Basicly anyone worth a damn capable of defeating the remaining surviving autobots) were dead. Most of the autobots were still alive. If Megatron lets Sentinel kill Optimus, then he offs Sentinel, the remaining Autobots are going to do everything they can to stop Megatron. Megatron needed Optimus so the remaining Autobots would go along with the plan, as well as the to call off the remaing human attack.
And becides, bottom line is it really doesn't matter if Megs was sencere about his truce. He killed Optimus in the past, slaughtered thousands of humans, and is responsible for Autobot deaths. These actions can not go un-punished. You can not just turn a blind shoulder at the past because your enemy all of a sudden offers it. Especialy when that truce comes with conditions.
For the life of me, i just don't see why people are getting upset atthe way Optimus terminated his life! I mean it
moritron wrote:I thought megatron only attacked sentinel because he saw him as a threat to his leadership, which he was. I don't think he intended to save prime, only attack sentinel. also i thought the "truce" megatron was offering was for the autobots to join with the decepticons, with megatron in command, i might have misunderstood, but that's what i got from it. seems like megatron deserved what he got, a truce seems much less likely, and to me would have been less likely of an ending.
Capt.Failure wrote:I do believe it's people still unwilling to realize that these are movies, not kids shows, and thus are gonna have more room to show just how violent a war is going to be. Quite simply the black and white morality of the cartoons will not fit in a theatrical film. Mature storytellers realize that sometimes the heroes are gonna need to do ugly things to ensure the safety of those they hold dear. You know, like killing the mass murdering psychopath who's responsible for three attempts at destroying all life on a planet.
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