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SlyTF1 wrote:
Maybe that's why I don't like it much. Too much innocence.

There's no such thing.

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:
Maybe that's why I don't like it much. Too much innocence.

There's no such thing.

You're right. There's no such thing as innocence.

SlyTF1 wrote:

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:
Maybe that's why I don't like it much. Too much innocence.

There's no such thing.

You're right. There's no such thing as innocence.

Oh, clever. Gimme innocence over grimdark any day of the year.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: this is for 5150 as well


... the goal isn't just scientific exploration ... it's also about extending the range of human habitat out from Earth into the solar system as we go forward in time ... In the long run a single-planet species will not survive ... If we humans want to survive for hundreds of thousands or millions of years, we must ultimately populate other planets. Now, today the technology is such that this is barely conceivable. We're in the infancy of it. ... I'm talking about that one day, I don't know when that day is, but there will be more human beings who live off the Earth than on it. We may well have people living on the moon. We may have people living on the moons of Jupiter and other planets. We may have people making habitats on asteroids ... I know that humans will colonize the solar system and one day go beyond.

— Michael D. Griffin[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_colonization

so thats that put to bed

I have no doubts that in 200 years time we will be able to colinise on other planets. But thats not the aurgument.
The aurgument is that if this were to ocure, (Such as the mars example), we wouldn't be pushing another speices off, or enslaving them to rebuild our world. The decepticons were.

this is jsut quoted to make a lie of the statement that you said it was a myth

and if we needed to, would we let our existence die out in order to preserve a species we deem lesser than us

Shadowman wrote:

shamone wrote:1. earned our place. By evolution, a process pretty much out of our control. The fact that we got lucky by coincidence should mean we should respect our position and be humkble in our fortune. Not declare we rule the world.

But we DO rule the world. I don't see cats making any major decisions in society.

shamone wrote:2. starvation is a problem, due to commercial farming and miuse of arable lands. You honestly think there the reason there is famines is due to lack of food. Come on use your common sense here.

Well, considering "famine" actually means "lack of food" I suppose so.

shamone wrote:3. a necessary evil which we refuse to use. Sure when the world is destroyed then hey we had no choice right !

Yes...we refuse to use fuel, the necessary evil I mentioned.

shamone wrote:4. We have studied other planets for colonization. If the time came where it was a critical decision and a lesser species populated the planet and their destruction was necessary for ours would we decide to expire. Evolution says otherwise

Evolution says we turn into a space-faring planet-conquering species? I don't know which evolutionary step that was. When, exactly, did we wipe out an entire species for our convenience?

shamone wrote:5. you mistake the logic. The first thing we did when faced with ele event was find another planet, not change our behavior. thats my point

And whoever made that decision was an idiot, and no one listened to him. There aren't any other habitable planets in this system. The next star out? Consider this, Mars is about .5 AU away from Earth, and the trip is estimated to take several months. Proxima Centauri, the star next door, is about 268,000 AU out.

1. society isnt the world. its the construct we have for the condition we live in. yeh we are the dominant species, and with that comes a matter of respect and responsibility

2. I dont know if you are being deliberately obtuse here, but do you believe that there isnt enough food in the world. Famine is caused by any number of things, usually economics. The irish famine was not due to lack of food. The lack of food in the world is not ause for starvation, because there isnt a lack of food

3. We continue to use fuel, because its a necessary evil. Will that be a sufficent excuse when we destroy the world, we had no choice !

4. I didnt actually say that. What i said was that evolution is about the survival of the species. Evolution dictates that we do what we can to preserve our existence. so domination of a world if needed, evolution says we would.

And in answer to your question, wipe out an entire species - buffalos http://www1.american.edu/ted/ice/buffalo.htm

we have dont it once when unncessary, would we not do it when it was needed

5. lets see, Senior NASA official or internet poster. I know which one most would think is the idiot, unless you are a NASA official. Im not calling you an idiot just we are all probably idiots compared to NASA officials

shamone wrote:1. society isnt the world. its the construct we have for the condition we live in. yeh we are the dominant species, and with that comes a matter of respect and responsibility

No, but the world is, and we rule that.

shamone wrote:2. I dont know if you are being deliberately obtuse here, but do you believe that there isnt enough food in the world. Famine is caused by any number of things, usually economics. The irish famine was not due to lack of food. The lack of food in the world is not ause for starvation, because there isnt a lack of food

Well if there's enough food to go around, why is starvation such a problem?

shamone wrote:3. We continue to use fuel, because its a necessary evil. Will that be a sufficent excuse when we destroy the world, we had no choice !

You're acting as if the planet itself is in critical condition right now. Here's an idea: Take a deep breath. Did you drop dead? If not, then the air around you is safe to breath, and will be for centuries to come. Will Global Warming happen? Most likely, but not soon. And anyone who is responsible for any sort of pollution is already working right now on correcting their mistakes.

shamone wrote:4. I didnt actually say that. What i said was that evolution is about the survival of the species. Evolution dictates that we do what we can to preserve our existence. so domination of a world if needed, evolution says we would.

Seriously, stop using older evolutionary steps as an argument. We are not monkeys anymore, anything we did then doesn't apply to now, considering how vastly society, as well as our standards of morality, have changed.

shamone wrote:And in answer to your question, wipe out an entire species - buffalos http://www1.american.edu/ted/ice/buffalo.htm

we have dont it once when unncessary, would we not do it when it was needed

Um...the buffalo--or more appropriately, the American Bison (Which is often wrongly referred to as the buffalo, as in that link)--isn't extinct. It is, however, on the endangered species list, which makes killing it illegal.

shamone wrote:5. lets see, Senior NASA official or internet poster. I know which one most would think is the idiot, unless you are a NASA official. Im not calling you an idiot just we are all probably idiots compared to NASA officials

The senior NASA official, I think. Because if you think replacing a dying planet with a dead one is a good idea, you're an idiot.

Okay, I'm just going to ignore shamone now. He's just posting these blatantly wrong arguments to ruffle our feathers, and it's really not worth the headache.

Shadowman wrote:

shamone wrote:1. society isnt the world. its the construct we have for the condition we live in. yeh we are the dominant species, and with that comes a matter of respect and responsibility

No, but the world is, and we rule that.

shamone wrote:2. I dont know if you are being deliberately obtuse here, but do you believe that there isnt enough food in the world. Famine is caused by any number of things, usually economics. The irish famine was not due to lack of food. The lack of food in the world is not ause for starvation, because there isnt a lack of food

Well if there's enough food to go around, why is starvation such a problem?

shamone wrote:3. We continue to use fuel, because its a necessary evil. Will that be a sufficent excuse when we destroy the world, we had no choice !

You're acting as if the planet itself is in critical condition right now. Here's an idea: Take a deep breath. Did you drop dead? If not, then the air around you is safe to breath, and will be for centuries to come. Will Global Warming happen? Most likely, but not soon. And anyone who is responsible for any sort of pollution is already working right now on correcting their mistakes.

shamone wrote:4. I didnt actually say that. What i said was that evolution is about the survival of the species. Evolution dictates that we do what we can to preserve our existence. so domination of a world if needed, evolution says we would.

Seriously, stop using older evolutionary steps as an argument. We are not monkeys anymore, anything we did then doesn't apply to now, considering how vastly society, as well as our standards of morality, have changed.

shamone wrote:And in answer to your question, wipe out an entire species - buffalos http://www1.american.edu/ted/ice/buffalo.htm

we have dont it once when unncessary, would we not do it when it was needed

Um...the buffalo--or more appropriately, the American Bison (Which is often wrongly referred to as the buffalo, as in that link)--isn't extinct. It is, however, on the endangered species list, which makes killing it illegal.

shamone wrote:5. lets see, Senior NASA official or internet poster. I know which one most would think is the idiot, unless you are a NASA official. Im not calling you an idiot just we are all probably idiots compared to NASA officials

The senior NASA official, I think. Because if you think replacing a dying planet with a dead one is a good idea, you're an idiot.

Okay, I'm just going to ignore shamone now. He's just posting these blatantly wrong arguments to ruffle our feathers, and it's really not worth the headache.

im sorry you arent willing to learn or look beyond strongly held mistruths, but maybe some of this will inspire you to do some research

1. I come from a nation that experienced famine. It is ingrained in our history. and you know what happened, it was purely economic, our resources and food produce was exported, whilst people starved. In africa the strongest cause of famine is civil war and misappropriation of resources.

you insult people when you say famine = not enough food. its a purely economic state. the average household throws out 33 per cent of purchased food. there a re lakes of wine and mountains of butter being overproduced.

2 because i can breathe today it means i will breathe tomorrow. thats not even an argument, not worthy of further comment, but symboli of attitude that got us where we are

3. evolution doesnt stop, when it does we die, the line is adapt or die. humanity continues to evolve. I wont go further on about it, until you have shown an understanding of the concept

4 im still sticking with nasa guy being more intelligent than both of us

shamone wrote:im sorry you arent willing to learn or look beyond strongly held mistruths, but maybe some of this will inspire you to do some research

I should say the exact same thing to you. I didn't even bother reading the rest of your post, but my best guess is that it uses a ton of misconceptions about environmental, sociological, and biological sciences pertaining to evolution and humanity's effect on the environment.

Shadowman wrote:

shamone wrote:im sorry you arent willing to learn or look beyond strongly held mistruths, but maybe some of this will inspire you to do some research

I should say the exact same thing to you. I didn't even bother reading the rest of your post, but my best guess is that it uses a ton of misconceptions about environmental, sociological, and biological sciences pertaining to evolution and humanity's effect on the environment.

well im not turning this into a flame war, so enjoy, but my misconceptions are based on education, experience, and research, actually misconceptions should be replaced with facts

the fact that you wont even bother to read something which you dont agree with confirms that you are not willing to learn, you will stubbornly hold onto ideas you dont understand, miscomprehended interpretations of complex systems

i despair that there is such ignorance out there than can stand by the following statement

Well if there's enough food to go around, why is starvation such a problem?

The really funny thing is, you never actually gave any proof for your arguments. I mean, there was that NASA quote (Which had nothing to do with establishing offworld colonies as an alternative to fixing the planet, but instead simply for the sake of establishing offworld colonies) and that link about the Buffalo, but your argument fell flat since they aren't extinct.

So, if you really want to make it look like you know what you're talking about, give me some links that support your arguments. Because right now, I can easily counter-point anything you say since you haven't proven anything.

But to answer the older question: Would we enslave an alien species to help rebuild our planet? The answer: No, we're currently doing that by ourselves.