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[Shadowman]

It completely wastes all their prior development, and completely cheapens the character.

Skyquake, Cliffjumper, and Hardshell had prior development and were something of value to themselves?

They could have, if they weren't completely wasted as characters.

[PrymeStriker]

It completely wastes all their prior development, and completely cheapens the character.

Skyquake, Cliffjumper, and Hardshell had prior development and were something of value to themselves?

They could have, if they weren't completely wasted as characters.

But they weren't. Skyquake, Cliffjumper, and Hardshell were about as significant as characters as Devcon in G1, Transmutate in Beast Wars, and a lot of characters in Animated. Guest characters that didn't serve any other purpose but to be there and, in rarer cases, do something.

[Shadowman]

It completely wastes all their prior development, and completely cheapens the character.

Skyquake, Cliffjumper, and Hardshell had prior development and were something of value to themselves?

They could have, if they weren't completely wasted as characters.

But they weren't. Skyquake, Cliffjumper, and Hardshell were about as significant as characters as Devcon in G1, Transmutate in Beast Wars, and a lot of characters in Animated. Guest characters that didn't serve any other purpose but to be there and, in rarer cases, do something.

I don't understand what that has to do with your initial point.

[PrymeStriker]

It completely wastes all their prior development, and completely cheapens the character.

Skyquake, Cliffjumper, and Hardshell had prior development and were something of value to themselves?

They could have, if they weren't completely wasted as characters.

But they weren't. Skyquake, Cliffjumper, and Hardshell were about as significant as characters as Devcon in G1, Transmutate in Beast Wars, and a lot of characters in Animated. Guest characters that didn't serve any other purpose but to be there and, in rarer cases, do something.

I don't understand what that has to do with your initial point.

I'm responding to you, not myself.

Being "wasted" as characters =/= being useless.

My initial point regarding deaths between the two shows is that Prime did something with characters who died. Afterthought or not. Beast Wars left a handful of characters to die and did absolutely nothing with them. And their only excuse is that they needed to make room for new toys.

[Shadowman]

I'm responding to you, not myself.

Being "wasted" as characters =/= being useless.

My initial point regarding deaths between the two shows is that Prime did something with characters who died. Afterthought or not. Beast Wars left a handful of characters to die and did absolutely nothing with them. And their only excuse is that they needed to make room for new toys.

Compare Dinobot's death to Dreadwing's and tell me that again...

[PrymeStriker]

I'm responding to you, not myself.

Being "wasted" as characters =/= being useless.

My initial point regarding deaths between the two shows is that Prime did something with characters who died. Afterthought or not. Beast Wars left a handful of characters to die and did absolutely nothing with them. And their only excuse is that they needed to make room for new toys.

Compare Dinobot's death to Dreadwing's and tell me that again...

Okay.

Beast Wars left a handful of characters to die and did absolutely nothing with them. And their only excuse is that they needed to make room for new toys.

Because, clearly, "handful" means "all."

[Shadowman]

Compare Dinobot's death to Dreadwing's and tell me that again...

Okay.

Beast Wars left a handful of characters to die and did absolutely nothing with them. And their only excuse is that they needed to make room for new toys.

Because, clearly, "handful" means "all."

Compare Dinobot's death to Dreadwing's and tell me that again...

Try again.

[Shadowman]

Okay, better challenge: name a character in Prime, aside from Optimus, who was both well-developed, and also didn't die in a complete anti-climax.

Point of interest, being shot in the back unceremoniously by Megatron counts as an anti-climax.

[PrymeStriker]

Compare Dinobot's death to Dreadwing's and tell me that again...

Try again.

I can compare Dinobot's death to Dreadwing's death and tell you same thing over and over, because what you're saying is irrelevant.

How does Dinobot's death compared to Dreadwing's relate to my point that there was only one character in Prime that was useless to the story and other characters both before and after death, while Beast Wars had four?

Okay, better challenge: name a character in Prime, aside from Optimus, who was both well-developed, and also didn't die in a complete anti-climax.

You can't, because anyone who died in Transformers Prime wasn't an important character aside from Dreadwing and Optimus.

Again, what does this have to do with anything?

[Shadowman]

Basically I'm saying that as long as Code of Hero exists, your point is moot.

[Sabrblade]

To be honest, Dreadwing's was the first death in the show that I was okay with.

[PrymeStriker]

Basically I'm saying that as long as Code of Hero exists, your point is moot.

How?

I never said that Prime handled characters who died better than Beast Wars, so the fact that Dinobot's death was the best death in Transformers history has nothing to do with my point, and your invalid arguments are forcing me to be consistently redundant.

Now, let me explain my point again:

I was complaining that most deaths in Beast Wars were done to make room for new toys, and a handful of them (which I have specifically referred to) were pointless to the overall story. Meanwhile, Prime did not have to rely upon the toyline and primarily killed one-to-two episode guest characters instead of characters who have been around. Also, any characters that had been around for a while that they had killed were worth something to story afterwards.

With that said, I hope you've realized that none of this has to do with Dinobot. I don't know if I'm not being specific enough or I need to rewrite or simplify my original post, but I've been as unequivocal as possible with my summation. If that relates to Dinobot's death in some bizarre way, please point it out.

[Sabrblade]

so the fact that Dinobot's death was the best death in Transformers history

One of, at least.

[Shadowman]

I was complaining that most deaths in Beast Wars were done to make room for new toys, and a handful of them (which I have specifically referred to) were pointless to the overall story.

It was also due to technical issues. Only so many characters could be handled at once. This is why the cast never really expanded.

Meanwhile, Prime did not have to rely upon the toyline and primarily killed one-to-two episode guest characters instead of characters who have been around.

Like Breakdown, Silas, Dreadwing, and Optimus Prime.

Also, any characters that had been around for a while that they had killed were worth something to story afterwards.

Breakdown, to an extent, still had some impact on the story after his death, but Silas and Dreadwing didn't. Optimus, technically, didn't either, but only due to the show ending immediately after.

[Henry921]

Killing a character off just for the sake of another character's development is about as bad as killing them off just to make room on the shelves for new toys. It completely wastes all their prior development, and completely cheapens the character.

Skyquake, Cliffjumper, and Hardshell had prior development and were something of value?

They had characterization, certainly. But not much development.

Got a better deal than Makeshift, at least.

[PrymeStriker]

Meanwhile, Prime did not have to rely upon the toyline and primarily killed one-to-two episode guest characters instead of characters who have been around.

Like Breakdown, Silas, Dreadwing, and Optimus Prime.

No. Like Cliffjumper, Skyquake, Hardshell, and Tailgate (Seaspray is questionable for inclusion). Which is why I said "primarily."

Admittedly, I forgot about Silas. My mind's fixed on robots right now.

Breakdown, to an extent, still had some impact on the story after his death, but Silas

Silas was a big part of the reason Breakdown had an impact on the story after death...

and Dreadwing didn't

He impacted Starscream, didn't he? Therefore, he impacted the story. I think you may be confusing story with plot, which are two different things.

Optimus, technically, didn't either,

He engendered Cybertron's production of new life. His death was pretty much the resolution for the story.

They had characterization, certainly. But not much development.

Exactly.

Got a better deal than Makeshift, at least.

The only death in the show that was a waste, since he was useless before and after death.

It's a shame. He had a lot of potential.

[Autobot032]

Don't worry Striker, you're not the only one who finds Prime to be superior to Beast Wars.

I love Beast Wars, great show. Prime handled things better for my liking, doesn't mean it's fact, but for MY liking.

(And no one ask me to expand upon or explain my point. I'm not in the mood, won't do it. Just answering his initial question.)

[Sabrblade]

I still like Beast Wars, Animated, Masterforce, and Rescue Bots better than Prime, while Beast Machines and RiD are tied with Prime for me (and I love those two shows ).

[Archanubis]

I still like Beast Wars, Animated, Masterforce, and Rescue Bots better than Prime, while Beast Machines and RiD are tied with Prime for me (and I love those two shows ).

This is how I personally rate each show:
1. Beast Wars
2. Prime & Animated
3. Rescue Bots
4. Cybertron
5. G1
6. RiD
7. Beast Machines
8. Armada
9. Energon

Just my personal opinion; everyone's free to their own.

[Sabrblade]

I still like Beast Wars, Animated, Masterforce, and Rescue Bots better than Prime, while Beast Machines and RiD are tied with Prime for me (and I love those two shows ).

This is how I personally rate each show:
1. Beast Wars
2. Prime & Animated
3. Rescue Bots
4. Cybertron
5. G1
6. RiD
7. Beast Machines
8. Armada
9. Energon

Just my personal opinion; everyone's free to their own.

My list:

1. Beast Wars
2. Animated
3. Masterforce & Rescue Bots
4. Beast Machines, Robots in Disguise, and Prime
5. Cybertron
6. The Headmasters
7. G1, Armada, and Victory
8. Go-Bots
9. Energon

(No inclusion of Beast Wars II or Neo since I haven't seen enough of either to make a fair judgement of either yet).

[kaijuguy19]

For anyone here who has a Tumblr account did any of you see this interesting post? It explains about the commentaries of the Season 3 DVD.

http://draqua.tumblr.com/post/702016058 ... rack-notes

[Sabrblade]

IMPORTANT! The first 4 episodes’ audio commentary tracks (“Darkmount”-“Rebellion”) are the same commentary tracks from the Dawn of the Beast Target-exclusive DVD.

Dagnabbit! Then I bought that Target DVD for nothing.

There was also going to be a lot more done with The Wreckers, including bringing in Seaspray (a Batman-like character who hummed “sea-shanty” tunes to make his enemies paranoid)

Knew that from the SDCC panel.

The destruction of Jasper and Megatron’s attack of the military is meant to imply there’s been a significant amount of human casualties

Even though we still got Fowler saying a couple of times that he got the residents of Jasper out and evacuated to safety.

Peter Cullen apparently became a little upset while first reading the script, not yet knowing at the time if Optimus would survive. He’s still worried about making kids upset and sad over losing Optimus like what happened back in G1, and doesn’t want to let that happen again…

Here that, guys? Cullen's a strong advocate of keeping Optimus alive. So if ya'll ever want an Optimus who dies and stays dead, ya'll likely wanna not have Cullen voice him.

TFP is recorded “radio play” style with all cast members in studio together, this adds a lot to the cast chemistry

Knew that from past interviews.

About Starscream, after all he’s gone through in S2, by this point in time he is completely on Megatron’s side 100%.

To all who ever doubted Starscream's new loyalty to Megatron, official word of mouth right there!

Mairghread Scott: “No one loves Miko the way I love Miko and I’m going to make people like her!”

Seeing all the hate Miko still gets, I don't think Ms. Scott succeeded.

A show like TFP with serialized story-telling and long running plots are still seen as somewhat risky in terms of retaining viewership within children’s cartoons, so they’re happy viewership remained high

This is one of the reasons why children's action cartoons are a dying genre.

Bumblebee’s beeps and boops are written as actual lines in English in all scripts. In order to keep the flow of scenes going, Megatron would read for BB in recording sessions, even creating a specific “Bumblebee voice”

Knew this from the Autobits

The silver Seekers are an offscreen gift from Megatron to Starscream in celebration of his return

So... they were always there? Were they just, what, kept in storage in the Nemesis for all of seasons 1-2? Or did Megs order a ton a Jet Vehicons be given extreme makeovers for the occasion?

The Decepticon warship is indeed called the Nemesis in scripts

And back in episode 15.

Alpha Trion is indeed well and truly dead

Figured. But, wait, does that mean that he was writing the few present day entries in the Covenant of Primus from beyond the grave or something?

Soundwave will likely come back at some point in the future, he’s a ghost in the machine right now, he’ll be king of the Shadow Zone…

See? He'll be back, guys.

[PrymeStriker]

For anyone here who has a Tumblr account did any of you see this interesting post? It explains about the commentaries of the Season 3 DVD.

http://draqua.tumblr.com/post/702016058 ... rack-notes

Thanks! Was gonna listen to the commentaries on the two discs over the weekend since I had gotten S3 and Predacons Rising on DVD and was only able to listen to the Predacons Rising commentary. Now I have something to look forward to.

Sumalee Montano (voice of Arcee) was very pregnant with her son, Jack, at the time; she had to be careful during the martial arts scenes…

Interesting how her son's name is Jack.

Mairghread Scott does the “Oh myyyyy!” line when they talk about George Takei as Alpha Trion

The one rule of writing for genre television: don’t look at the boards. But this is also the rule everyone breaks

Don't look at the TFW2005 boards, rather.

Fowler and June probably got together after the end of the series, and Jack had to hear the “I’m not saying you have to call me dad” speech

I'm going to scrap 'probably' and call this canon.

Sobolov stresses that he is not trying to be a “better” Shockwave than Corey Burton, just a different one

Though, he is a better Shockwave than Corey Burton.

Originally, Optimus was going to kill Predaking in the final episode, “like a knight slaying the dragon”. But then they got the order to make an additional movie Predacon Rising and thus Predaking’s plot line got extended. They sound pretty thankful about this

I am too. Would've loved to see Dreadwing stick around to live out his character development further. At least Predaking got to live through to that point.

[Dead Metal]

The destruction of Jasper and Megatron’s attack of the military is meant to imply there’s been a significant amount of human casualties

Even though we still got Fowler saying a couple of times that he got the residents of Jasper out and evacuated to safety.

The Military guys however are still, pretty much dead though.

Peter Cullen apparently became a little upset while first reading the script, not yet knowing at the time if Optimus would survive. He’s still worried about making kids upset and sad over losing Optimus like what happened back in G1, and doesn’t want to let that happen again…

Here that, guys? Cullen's a strong advocate of keeping Optimus alive. So if ya'll ever want an Optimus who dies and stays dead, ya'll likely wanna not have Cullen voice him.

Wouldn't mind that.

The silver Seekers are an offscreen gift from Megatron to Starscream in celebration of his return

So... they were always there? Were they just, what, kept in storage in the Nemesis for all of seasons 1-2? Or did Megs order a ton a Jet Vehicons be given extreme makeovers for the occasion?

I think it's the later, since they where a gift for his return.

Soundwave will likely come back at some point in the future, he’s a ghost in the machine right now, he’ll be king of the Shadow Zone…

See? He'll be back, guys.

Who ever had any daubs? He's to awesome to die.

Originally, Optimus was going to kill Predaking in the final episode, “like a knight slaying the dragon”. But then they got the order to make an additional movie Predacon Rising and thus Predaking’s plot line got extended. They sound pretty thankful about this

I am too. Would've loved to see Dreadwing stick around to live out his character development further. At least Predaking got to live through to that point.

Thank Primus, he's one of the best characters in the show and cooler than Optimus.

[Sabrblade]

Who ever had any daubs? He's to awesome to die.

Some folks on teh Interwebz whinin' that they're favorite Deseptikon got axed too easily and is trapped like 4evarz!