shamone wrote:until we know the terms and conditions of the licensing we cannot blame or defend hasbro
Thats fair. But in the same sence the same can be said about Bay, Spielsberg, and the writers on certain aspects of the film.
shamone wrote:until we know the terms and conditions of the licensing we cannot blame or defend hasbro
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
5150 Cruiser wrote: I can agree that many times contracts for films are made for multiple movies and when the first hits a certain profit margin, a sequel is automaticly green lit. But in this case, i still have a hard time believing that Hasbro did not at minimuim, write in the contract that they could revise as they saw fit between each movie based on one main point..
1.- This was all new. New to hasbro, New to Bay, new to the writers. No one knew how a live action movie would pan out on the big screen. It was a learning process. when you learning, your bound to make mistakes. Thus, you want to learn from them. SO for Hasbro to just up and sign a contract for three movies with zero say on how the end script/robot designs etc. pan out, makes zero sence.
I understand Hasbro does not do there own writing and outsource for this. But this isn't there first rodeo. Again, i'm not calling you a liar by any means, but i have a hrad time believing this is the standard contract for any comic book/toy brand movie adaption.
Your right it is an opinion and i'm not saying it is the correct one. I was just using it as an example since it seemed to be a comon complaint from people that didn't like the movies. And your right that nor Habro, bay, Spilsberg or anyone envolved is going to take the dislikes of a very, very small portion of the fan base as a reason to make provisions. Right now there something like a 90% approval on Rotten Tomatoes and 93% on fandango. So while many might think there are problems, the majority say they got it right. (for the most part).
Fair enough. But at this point more evidence is seeming to be pointing to it being a mistake.
there are far better examples that one can use than one 2 sec. on screen name of a character.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
shamone wrote:Treetop Maximus wrote:The unique selling point is that they come wih humans, obviously. Hasbro is selling toys of humans under the Transformers brand name. Robots are not their main focus.
the USP of the tranformers movies are selling robot toys, thats hasbros goal.
the humans are just another way to sell a slightly different toy
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:there are far better examples that one can use than one 2 sec. on screen name of a character.
it actually appeared 2 times on film, but thats not important.
And I'm not trying to cry "foul" or anything, I'm just showing it as an example that its likely Bay would have done vwhat he wanted.
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
5150 Cruiser wrote:sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:there are far better examples that one can use than one 2 sec. on screen name of a character.
it actually appeared 2 times on film, but thats not important.
And I'm not trying to cry "foul" or anything, I'm just showing it as an example that its likely Bay would have done vwhat he wanted.
Ok, so as i'm typing this, i'm watching the G1 episode "Megatron's Master Plan" on the Hub. The simularites on this episode and the plot in DOTM are very simular in the part that Autobots are banished from earth and Megatron wants to suck our planet dry of its resources. Idea's taken right out of TF mytho's. So even if Bay wanted to use devestator and not Brawl, i'd say there are plenty of examples of Bay (if you want to hold him responisble) using many G1 and TF mytho refrances. NOt to meantion recruiting some of the oringal G1 voice actors which was probably the biggest nod to the TF fandom. So give the guy a break. I'm not saying you have to be frineds and have the guy over for dinner and a beer (Mike, your always welcomed at my place! ), but be fair and give him some credit.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote: I'll admit I'm sometimes ignorant of voice actors by name, but the only G1 voice actors I know of is Peter Cullen and Frank Welker [Nimoy doesnt really count] and no less it was Hasbro that insistent that Bay allow him to audition for the part. Bay didnt exactly want Peter from the start.And he refused Welker in the role of Megatron..
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote: Anyway thats not really the point, When it comes to giving credit, one must weigh what was done right vrs what was done wrong.Thats going to fall to the opinions of each person making judgments.
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:You feel its wrong that so many within the fandom complain and judge bay poorly, but what you dont see is that your just as wrong for complaining about those complaining about Bay.
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
5150 Cruiser wrote: Sorry, but your incorrect. Yes, Hasbro suggested Peter Cullen since Bay was not yet familuar with TF and its back grounds. Once he saw a couple of G1 episodes, he was 100% on board with Peter Cullen being Prime.
He was never at any point opposed to using him,
Welker on the other hand they weren't opposed to, but after looking at the new design of Megatron, and matching up voices, it was decided that Hugo Weaving's voice better suited the design. All of this was on the DVD comentary for the first movie.
Its not that i feel it wrong, but like the topic of this thread, I don't feel the end result of these movies land on the hands of one person, and one person only.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote: Sorry but I'm not incorrect.Both Bay and Cullen have spoken on this quite offten..Bay even said after seening a few G1 episodes he wasnt sold on Cullens ability to bring forth the character the way he invisioned it.
Bay said he wasnt solid on Cullen till his 2nd reading for him.
So, what your saying is that he reused Welker.
Thanks for repeating what I said.
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:It may be true that he's not the only one that can be held on the hook, but theres a school of thought that supports the reasons for blaming him.
Auteur theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auteur_theory
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
5150 Cruiser wrote: Then that contradicts the DVD comentary then.
I don't doubt he had an audition for the voice acting, But either way, it sounds like Bay ultimatly gave peter Cullen the Go in the movie to Voice Optimus.
Not sure if meant reused, or refused.
I'm guessing you meant refused? And if so, no. Refusing, and not using is completely different. They gave Welkers Voice a shot, but it just didn't work out.
School or thought or not, one can't pick and choose what to blame the director for what they like/dislike without acknowledging the other parties envloved.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:5150 Cruiser wrote: Then that contradicts the DVD comentary then.
I wouldnt called it a real contradiction.
Bay and many film makers tend to "editorilise" their statements for DVD commentaries to make them sound more positive..I don't doubt he had an audition for the voice acting, But either way, it sounds like Bay ultimatly gave peter Cullen the Go in the movie to Voice Optimus.
Verty true.I think he came to love Cullens voice as much as we all do.
Not sure if meant reused, or refused.
refused, sorry typo.I'm guessing you meant refused? And if so, no. Refusing, and not using is completely different. They gave Welkers Voice a shot, but it just didn't work out.
Now your "editorializing" to make it sound more positive.
There is no difference between refusing the man and deciding his voice didnt fit.
Hasbro wanted him to use Welker, they tried him out and said no.Thats a refusal.School or thought or not, one can't pick and choose what to blame the director for what they like/dislike without acknowledging the other parties envloved.
thats nonsense, we can choose to blame who we want for what we want.
And since Bay gets most of the accolades from those that loved trhe films, then its logical he gets most of the blame from those that didnt like the films.
He was the driving force behind the creative teams for the films.
It was his vision, his messege, its a Michel Bay film, as it says in most of the promos, praise or blame,the credit is Bays.
Treetop Maximus wrote:shamone wrote:Treetop Maximus wrote:The unique selling point is that they come wih humans, obviously. Hasbro is selling toys of humans under the Transformers brand name. Robots are not their main focus.
the USP of the tranformers movies are selling robot toys, thats hasbros goal.
the humans are just another way to sell a slightly different toy
Another way to sell something? Oh, kind of like a unique selling point, AMIRITE?
Stov, if it's not important, why mention it?
Treetop Maximus wrote:
Another way to sell something? Oh, kind of like a unique selling point, AMIRITE?
Stov, if it's not important, why mention it?
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:There is no difference between refusing the man and deciding his voice didnt fit.
Hasbro wanted him to use Welker, they tried him out and said no.Thats a refusal.
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:thats nonsense, we can choose to blame who we want for what we want.
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And since Bay gets most of the accolades from those that loved trhe films, then its logical he gets most of the blame from those that didnt like the films.
He was the driving force behind the creative teams for the films.
It was his vision, his messege, its a Michel Bay film, as it says in most of the promos, praise or blame,the credit is Bays.
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
shamone wrote:the last part i agree with
a lot of pro bay fans are all about gving him the credit and blaming other forces for the failure
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
5150 Cruiser wrote:Sorry, i just don't see it that way. Hasbro wanted him. Bay tried his voice (Just like Cullen) and it was decided that it wouldn't work. Thats not a refusal.
Ultimately sure. But its not intirely fair if you know said party isn't responisble. (This isn't directed at Bay or anyone in particular, just generalizing)
Again, thats one of the points for this thread. To attempt to see how much say Hasbro had in promoting their product and presumably, their highiest grosing product to date.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
5150 Cruiser wrote:Do you hold Bay 100% responisble for the end result of the movies?
If there are parts of the movie you like, no matter how small, then do you give Bay credit?
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
5150 Cruiser wrote:shamone wrote:the last part i agree with
a lot of pro bay fans are all about gving him the credit and blaming other forces for the failure
So what about Non bay fans? Are you saying they never give Bay any credit for anything they like and asume that it must be the result of other parties intervining?
Do you hold Bay 100% responisble for the end result of the movies? If there are parts of the movie you like, no matter how small, then do you give Bay credit?
shamone wrote:5150 Cruiser wrote:shamone wrote:the last part i agree with
a lot of pro bay fans are all about gving him the credit and blaming other forces for the failure
So what about Non bay fans? Are you saying they never give Bay any credit for anything they like and asume that it must be the result of other parties intervining?
Do you hold Bay 100% responisble for the end result of the movies? If there are parts of the movie you like, no matter how small, then do you give Bay credit?
not at all, im saying nothing about non bay fans. im saying that most bay fans here look for any excuse for flaws in the movie other than blaming bay
i dont hold bay 100 per cent responsible for the movies. in my posts i have blamed spielberg and the producers and the scriptwriters.
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
dylansdad wrote:I was very upset, still am. The whole movie was so wrong on so many levels. Ultra violent, smutty, humourless. It should not have carried the Transformers name, if it was called 'Robot Maniac Attack' it would have been passable as a summer timewaster. Sentinel Prime sell out to the Decepticons? Yeah,right, & Obi Wan just went over to the Dark side!!!
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
dylansdad wrote:Sorry,should have been Qui Jon,, & Optimus as Obi Wan.
Don't you get what I'm on about? In all the cartoon series,from G1 to Animated, the Autobot leaders have always been noble & compassionate,I can't remember them ever killing an unarmed,injured opponent.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
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