SlyTF1 wrote:Am I the only one who senses the possibility of a sort of... change of heart in Bay here? A revelation would probably be an even better word. I love the TF movies to death, but who's to say that Bay didn't slack on them thinking that they're just near-3 hour toy commercials instead of actual movies. From the sound of things, Bay being at the ride opening opened his eyes and he now understands that there are people who actually enjoy the movies A LOT. Perhaps he will actually try harder to give the people what they wanted from the first 3 movies because of that revelation. I don't know if I'm just talking out of my ass, but I'm curious to see whether or not my theory about Bay's dedication and effort in these movies is true.
Autobot032 wrote:SlyTF1 wrote:Am I the only one who senses the possibility of a sort of... change of heart in Bay here? A revelation would probably be an even better word. I love the TF movies to death, but who's to say that Bay didn't slack on them thinking that they're just near-3 hour toy commercials instead of actual movies. From the sound of things, Bay being at the ride opening opened his eyes and he now understands that there are people who actually enjoy the movies A LOT. Perhaps he will actually try harder to give the people what they wanted from the first 3 movies because of that revelation. I don't know if I'm just talking out of my ass, but I'm curious to see whether or not my theory about Bay's dedication and effort in these movies is true.
You bring up a very good point. But don't be surprised if this is met with resistance, because it will be. Trust me.
Capt.Failure wrote:[quote="Autobot032]
You bring up a very good point. But don't be surprised if this is met with resistance, because it will be. Trust me.[/quote]
Of course it will be. If the Transformers fanbase has proven anything to me over the years it's that they're conservative, immature, and don't know what they want. This doesn't just stem from the films, but every new entry in the franchise. The films are just a more recent example.
TRUK NOT MUNKEY!!! anyone?[/quote]
MINDVVIPE wrote:Capt.Failure wrote:[quote="Autobot032]
You bring up a very good point. But don't be surprised if this is met with resistance, because it will be. Trust me.[/quote]
Of course it will be. If the Transformers fanbase has proven anything to me over the years it's that they're conservative, immature, and don't know what they want. This doesn't just stem from the films, but every new entry in the franchise. The films are just a more recent example.
TRUK NOT MUNKEY!!! anyone?[/quote][/quote]
You guys done stroking each other
s' ego?
To reply to what SlyTF1 actually said:
That could be possible, and I would be happy about it. He's taking a step in the right direction with Mark, so lets see.
The fact that he noticed so many people like the ride frightens me instead, as it seems like he is even more aware of people's love for anything transformers, and sees even further monetary potential for continued franchising of TF. As I said way before though, if it leads to more generations figures, whatever.[/quote]
headsortails wrote:We can sit here and beat each other down over the loves and hates of Bayformers forever, but what does it really matter since it's going to happen, regardless.
SlyTF1 wrote:Am I the only one who senses the possibility of a sort of... change of heart in Bay here? A revelation would probably be an even better word. I love the TF movies to death, but who's to say that Bay didn't slack on them thinking that they're just near-3 hour toy commercials instead of actual movies. From the sound of things, Bay being at the ride opening opened his eyes and he now understands that there are people who actually enjoy the movies A LOT. Perhaps he will actually try harder to give the people what they wanted from the first 3 movies because of that revelation. I don't know if I'm just talking out of my ass, but I'm curious to see whether or not my theory about Bay's dedication and effort in these movies is true.
vectorA3 wrote:I mean, just look at what a change in directors did for G.I. Joe. Retaliation was much better than ROC. Don't get me wrong, I like Sommers and enjoyed watching ROC, but Joe 2 was truer to the source material. Of course, having a 4 yr. wait between movies helped greatly too. (AKA not rushing the &%^$ out of a trilogy & making films during a strike) Looks like Paramount is in no hurry with GI Joe and Star Trek, which is fine, but as a TF fan I am very upset that the franchise was treated as garbage that didn't deserve the time, careful planning and effort that other properties -regardless of studio, get. Quality was clearly sacrificed for making a quick buck and a happy medium could've been reached, but no effort was made to do it. This isn't too much to ask.
Capt.Failure wrote:DTR69 wrote:Capt.Failure wrote:DTR69 wrote:I can speak for everyone here, yes I am talking on your behalf, tell me i am wrong. We all had the fantasy and dream that we thought would never happen, we all dreamt the day when a live action transformers movie would hit the screens. But it has happened in the worse way possible.
I stopped reading right there. You do not speak for everyone and you damn sure don't speak for me. You can just stop that line of thinking right there, pal.
So when you was a kid playing with transformers you never wished that they ould make a live action movie. You never wondered what it would be like if transformers were real. It's not about the movie its about wondering what they would really be like. Thats what playing with toys is all about, your imagining that it's real, you take on the roll, and for that brief moment in your head magic happens. I never used to play with my toys I used to line them up and stare at them, but it was going on in my head. I did play with transformers a few times, but when you line them all up and then prime says roll out, after you have transformed a few it's tea time, so I used to play with expendable toys that i could throw abouut and break, Transformers were to pretty to play with I loved looking at them and imagining.
Of course I wondered what it might be like, and hoped we'd get an adaptation one day. However you are the one here speaking for me, telling me that the results of a live action adaptation aren't what I wanted when, and I know this must rustle your jimmies something fierce, I enjoyed the hell out of them and consider them a worthwhile adaptation and a solid entry in the franchise as a whole.
I'll reiterate: You don't speak for me, let alone everyone.
Capt.Failure wrote:With the personality you've displayed I consider that a blessing.DTR69 wrote:Remeber When transformers came out there were also Go-Bots. Go-Bots was not good, and transformers were better. I enjoy watching the Transformers movie, but I hate it as a Transformers movie, yes it's fun to watch but I expected more. And so should you, thats why you are here and not on a Go-Bots site. We all love transformers lets not fight. It's bay we should kiil lol.
I think people need to realise that enjoying the film doesnt mean that you like it, but to say that thie films are a perfect outcome is ridiculous, and thats why people are harsh to people that back bay. Can anyone one really say that the films were the best they could of been, just becuase you like the movie doesn't mean you thought it was great, it shouldnt be people who hate the movie and people who love it, I hate the movie but i will still watch all of them becuase they are still fun, but not what I was hoping.
Bay is a smurf and you will get looked down at if you think he's the right person for the job. It's not being ignorant to other people opinions, sometimes there is a right and wrong answer and the answer is Bay is wrong.
And now you're confirmed for a troll. Should have known.
Wheelie Prime wrote:Wow, that’s an excessively aggressive reply. You’re very quick to take offense. Let me be clear: I’m not claiming a superior perspective or trying to offend you. So can we please refrain from immediately sinking to calling one another ignorant? Nobody’s saying that people who enjoy these movies are ignorant. It’s not necessary to tell me to keep my opinions to myself. That’s not constructive. Nor do you have to point out that every paragraph I write contains opinions. But it’s okay, you made some good points here and there, so I will indeed correct myself.
On the stories, what I’m saying is that we know that there are factors that contribute to qualitatively strong storytelling, and that these principles can be read and understood by anyone. You’re twisting my words to say that I’m saying you’re stupid and must not understand screenwriting if you like these movies. Or something like that. No. I’m just offering a basis for discussion other than “I liked the story/I didn't like the story,” namely an answer to the question: “how do you define what makes a good story?” That’s not the same thing as saying it’s dumb to enjoy these movies. That would be absurd. I’m talking about all the technical and logical problems of the movies, in the story, the editing, the lighting, the special effects, etc. Yes, obviously many people don’t see them or ignore them and are able to thoroughly enjoy the movies, but that doesn’t mean these movies don’t have issues.
On the differences between franchises, again, not trying to offend. I’m saying that when we look at other franchises, it’s my opinion that it’s too bad that the Transformers franchise was given a director who was immediately so bent on creating his own vision of Transformers without immersing himself in the source material. Not saying you’re stupid, just saying it’s my opinion that such a divided fan base (on this topic) may attest to the fact that Transformers fans weren’t quite as fortunate in this respect as others.
On Marvel fans, they may well be more mature and intelligent than Transformers fans. I concede that point because I don't have the numbers. But I don’t see why that would necessarily boil down to a qualitatively poorer movie. After all, the target audiences for both these movie franchises are more or less the same.
As to whether not hating the films’ characters means hating Transformers, you’re right. Not what I wanted to communicate. What I meant was, if you like Transformers, like Decepticons, and like the movies, I still don’t see why you would be happy Bay made most of the Decepticons growling mutes, many of them without alt modes. I’m saying, if you like Devastator, of course you don’t have to hate movie Devastator, but that doesn’t mean it’s stupid to have hoped for something more than what we got or to be disappointed.
As I wrote earlier, if you are able to overlook their flaws and enjoy the movies, good. But just two plot holes? It would be trivially easy for you to spend five minutes to Google it and find a number far greater than that. Personally, I am simply disappointed by the quality of the films and that is not a controversial opinion. We’re talking about movies that have an average IMDB rating of 6.4, an average Rotten Tomatoes rating of not 38%, and were mostly panned by critics. But fine, you don’t appreciate the term “sucked.” We’ll just have to say they lacked the necessary qualities for the audience and critics to appreciate them more thoroughly (Fact).
“I am quite experienced with what makes a good story.” Correct yourself.
“Such a reasonable argumemt.” Correct yourself.
“Your right.” Correct yourself.
Autobot032 wrote:Alright, you two. This is getting out of hand and I foresee there being some problems if this continues. I want both of you to go back to your corners and stop this. If this continues, warnings might have to be handed out because it is getting personal, words are being put in other's mouths and people are speaking for one another.
None of that is respectful, none of that is civil, none of that adheres to what we stand for here.
Please stop, this is the last time I'm going to be nice about it.
DTR69 wrote:For a start there's the whole design and look of the transformers. This is another argument altogether, but if you look at all the iterations of the Transformers universes, they have eveolved alot over the years, and I am not a fan of most of them, but at the end of the day they are all obviously Transformers and maybe poorly designed, but they are obviously from the Transformers franchise.
Lets look at some other franchises that have been brought to life.
Mortal Kombat Vs Street Fighter : Live Action movies.
Street Fighter was a big Budget flop compared to Mortal Kombat which was a lower budget attempt but which was more true to the Mortal Kombat franchise than the Street Fighter movie was to it's franchise. Both movies weren't great but Mortal Kombat gave better justice and represented it's franchise far better than Street Fighter which was modified and changed alot, and it was loosing and altering key elements which was it's downfall.
Super Mario Vs Tomb Raider : Live Action Movies.
Again Super Mario was totaly altered for the big screen where as Lara croft was recognisably Lara croft from the video game. If a franchise has key elements that won't work on the big screen then maybe it shouldn't be made for the big screen becuase then it's a different product altogether.
So basicaly the evidence shows that when a Live action movie of a franchise and stays true to the key elements from story to design and looks, then the finished product will have those elements that made the franchise popular in the movie, and if done well will make for a good film and a good representation of the franchise. When the elements are removed or altered drasticaly for the big screen then the evidence shows almost no good can come from it.
The reason Bay altered the look we all know wasn't becuase the look wouldn't work on big screen, there are plenty of fan made cgi clips showing that it works fine, obviously there would be refinement, there are design features and limitations to the toys becuase they are toys, so people who say g1 wouldn't work are contradicting themselves and not realising that G1 is a concept, rather than some blocky toys, they have the best designs in the whole franchise it's just a pitty they had production limitations unlike todays incarnations. the same way the movie toys are altered becuase of limitations, is the same way the limitations in g1 designs and other TF universes, would be altered and removed when designed for big screen.
Bay didn't have faith in the look that transformers have lived with for all these years, and more importantly, he didn't have faith that Transforming robots would wow an audience, not unless you took that stement and put it on steroids. Bay made the transformers over the top, thousands of moving bits just to show off how far cgi has come. Even thedesigners said the transformation didn't make real sense, THe actual transformation was eye candy. The actual process is cut at one point , so the actual transformation wouldnt work, so there are 2 models one for the transformation to altmode, which just goes into a mess, and in the mess it's cut to another model which is a mess which transforms into the alternative mode. All that mess is just eye candy. And I would have been much more impressed with a design that had a working transformation and one that had less going on so you could actually focus on it's beauty. Just like the rest of the film constant flasing cut scenes is very flash but thats it, you don't get a chance to admire and take in all the effects.
And yes to everything else you have said. I think I actually enjoyed the movie a bit more than you, but as a Transformers movie I hated it. ANything with giant robots no matter how poorly designed they are has some enjoyment factor for me. But I saw so much potential in the concept of a Transformers live action movie, and Bay didn't deliver. Why can't people who like the movie accept the fact that bay can't deliver on something he is no good at. Just becuase people love/like the film doesn't mean they have to defend bay. If I was to slate Germany, you don't defend Hitlers actions. Hitler is factualy a bad man, you can not argue that point, so when you defend bay you automaticaly loose the argument. When people say that people who hate what bay has done are ignorant, it's not an opinion you are challenging it's a fact. And people are hating the fact that Bay has underwhelmed them with the movies.
The fact that alot of people could have done a better job than Bay, means that people are justified with wanting to see better results. It's so odd that people who are making these comments are on a Transformers FanSIte and they obviously have a passion for TransFormers, but are quite happy to settle for rubbish. On top of settling for less, why attack people who are passionate about wanting the best from a franchise that they love.
Lastly, it's us people who are the so called haters of the movie, that are actualy being respectful and polite. It's the people who love the movie that are calling the haters names and saying they are worng about having an opinion, especialy when certain opions are almost fact. At least us haters can explain ourselves and break it down. And the reason we write so much waffle is becuase you all clearly don't get it, it's not an argument we are looking for. And why are we wrong for having an opinion just becuase it's different from yours. And why are facts and opinions being blurred.
We should expect more, I don't want to enjoy a Transformers Live action movie, I want to be blown away.
NewFoundStarscreamLuv wrote:me and my friends combine all the time. Sometimes I even combine by myself if no one is around.
MINDVVIPE wrote:Off topic, but I wish we got some of the alien races that are featured in the comics, would be sweet.
MINDVVIPE wrote:Since we're talking about designs,
Evil_the_Nub wrote:DTR69 wrote:For a start there's the whole design and look of the transformers. This is another argument altogether, but if you look at all the iterations of the Transformers universes, they have eveolved alot over the years, and I am not a fan of most of them, but at the end of the day they are all obviously Transformers and maybe poorly designed, but they are obviously from the Transformers franchise.
I've been a Transformers fan for as long as I can remember and I've never liked the simplistic designs. They're supposed to be robots, but because the designs are so simple the cartoons always had to cheat with the transformations. Parts would shrink away to nothing while other parts would show up out of thin air. The movie designs are exactly what I've been wanting to see since G1. Transformers that look like they actually transform, instead of morphing from one form to another.Lets look at some other franchises that have been brought to life.
Mortal Kombat Vs Street Fighter : Live Action movies.
Street Fighter was a big Budget flop compared to Mortal Kombat which was a lower budget attempt but which was more true to the Mortal Kombat franchise than the Street Fighter movie was to it's franchise. Both movies weren't great but Mortal Kombat gave better justice and represented it's franchise far better than Street Fighter which was modified and changed alot, and it was loosing and altering key elements which was it's downfall.
Super Mario Vs Tomb Raider : Live Action Movies.
Again Super Mario was totaly altered for the big screen where as Lara croft was recognisably Lara croft from the video game. If a franchise has key elements that won't work on the big screen then maybe it shouldn't be made for the big screen becuase then it's a different product altogether.
So basicaly the evidence shows that when a Live action movie of a franchise and stays true to the key elements from story to design and looks, then the finished product will have those elements that made the franchise popular in the movie, and if done well will make for a good film and a good representation of the franchise. When the elements are removed or altered drasticaly for the big screen then the evidence shows almost no good can come from it.
The movies are true to the key elements. Alien robots that change into vehicles are in a war that comes to Earth. The Autobots are the good guys and the Decepticons are the bad guys. Transformers has rarely been deeper than that.The reason Bay altered the look we all know wasn't becuase the look wouldn't work on big screen, there are plenty of fan made cgi clips showing that it works fine, obviously there would be refinement, there are design features and limitations to the toys becuase they are toys, so people who say g1 wouldn't work are contradicting themselves and not realising that G1 is a concept, rather than some blocky toys, they have the best designs in the whole franchise it's just a pitty they had production limitations unlike todays incarnations. the same way the movie toys are altered becuase of limitations, is the same way the limitations in g1 designs and other TF universes, would be altered and removed when designed for big screen.
Bay didn't have faith in the look that transformers have lived with for all these years, and more importantly, he didn't have faith that Transforming robots would wow an audience, not unless you took that stement and put it on steroids. Bay made the transformers over the top, thousands of moving bits just to show off how far cgi has come. Even thedesigners said the transformation didn't make real sense, THe actual transformation was eye candy. The actual process is cut at one point , so the actual transformation wouldnt work, so there are 2 models one for the transformation to altmode, which just goes into a mess, and in the mess it's cut to another model which is a mess which transforms into the alternative mode. All that mess is just eye candy. And I would have been much more impressed with a design that had a working transformation and one that had less going on so you could actually focus on it's beauty. Just like the rest of the film constant flasing cut scenes is very flash but thats it, you don't get a chance to admire and take in all the effects.
You seem to be hung up on the designs. I don't see how changing the designs of the Transformers is any different from Ironman. Have you seen what his suit looked like in the early comics? It was horrible, it looks like plumbing parts on yellow spandex. That would look awful in a live action movie.And yes to everything else you have said. I think I actually enjoyed the movie a bit more than you, but as a Transformers movie I hated it. ANything with giant robots no matter how poorly designed they are has some enjoyment factor for me. But I saw so much potential in the concept of a Transformers live action movie, and Bay didn't deliver. Why can't people who like the movie accept the fact that bay can't deliver on something he is no good at. Just becuase people love/like the film doesn't mean they have to defend bay. If I was to slate Germany, you don't defend Hitlers actions. Hitler is factualy a bad man, you can not argue that point, so when you defend bay you automaticaly loose the argument. When people say that people who hate what bay has done are ignorant, it's not an opinion you are challenging it's a fact. And people are hating the fact that Bay has underwhelmed them with the movies.
The fact that alot of people could have done a better job than Bay, means that people are justified with wanting to see better results. It's so odd that people who are making these comments are on a Transformers FanSIte and they obviously have a passion for TransFormers, but are quite happy to settle for rubbish. On top of settling for less, why attack people who are passionate about wanting the best from a franchise that they love.
Right here you're stating opinions as fact. You're telling us that the movies are factually bad and we shouldn't like them.Lastly, it's us people who are the so called haters of the movie, that are actualy being respectful and polite. It's the people who love the movie that are calling the haters names and saying they are worng about having an opinion, especialy when certain opions are almost fact. At least us haters can explain ourselves and break it down. And the reason we write so much waffle is becuase you all clearly don't get it, it's not an argument we are looking for. And why are we wrong for having an opinion just becuase it's different from yours. And why are facts and opinions being blurred.
I've seen far more insulting, condescending, hyperbolic posts from those who hate the movies than from those who liked them. Things like "These movies are cinematic abortions", "If you like them you aren't a real fan", "I could make a better movie in my sleep" and worse.We should expect more, I don't want to enjoy a Transformers Live action movie, I want to be blown away.
You're expecting too much. Something is always going to fall short when you set your sights way too high.
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