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Sabrblade wrote:AOE threw all those out the minute it introduced the Creators and Knights, which TLK then threw out with Quintessa being "the Great Deceiver" and its having a completely different set of Knights.o.supreme wrote:So then..are all the IDW movie tie-ins considered "canon" to the live action universe, (I always figured so, even though i cant remember what happened in most of them) because if so...that presents a whole other dimension of issues.
The IDW comics only really work for the first trilogy, so there are at least two (or three) major timelines for the movies:Though, the Bumblebee tie-in comics were also thrown out by their own movie, but since those were written under the assumption that TLK would be accounted for in Bumblebee's timeline, one could possibly put those Bumblebee tie-in comics with Timeline #2 above (as sad as that is since the Bumblebee comics were written to tie in with, you, Bumblebee).
- Movies 1-3, plus some tie-in material (IDW comics, novels, Cyber Missions cartoon, etc.)
- Movies 1-5 with no tie-ins
- Movies 1-4 and Bumblebee as a prequel
Sabrblade wrote:AOE threw all those out the minute it introduced the Creators and Knights, which TLK then threw out with Quintessa being "the Great Deceiver" and its having a completely different set of Knights.o.supreme wrote:So then..are all the IDW movie tie-ins considered "canon" to the live action universe, (I always figured so, even though i cant remember what happened in most of them) because if so...that presents a whole other dimension of issues.
The IDW comics only really work for the first trilogy, so there are at least two (or three) major timelines for the movies:
- Movies 1-3, plus some tie-in material (IDW comics, novels, Cyber Missions cartoon, etc.)
- Movies 1-5 with no tie-ins
- Movies 1-4 and Bumblebee as a prequel
SW's SilverHammer wrote:Eat my ass funpub.
Burn wrote:And this is for taking Nemesis Maximo seriously.
*high fives Silly in the face*
carytheone wrote:I can't be assed to do any better right now.
How is #4 different from #2?Nemesis Maximo wrote:More like:
1. Movies 1-3, plus some tie-in material
2. Movies 1-5 with no tie-ins
3. Movies 1-4 without TLK
4. Movies 4-5 with some of the previous backstory
5. Bumblebee
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:How is #4 different from #2?Nemesis Maximo wrote:More like:
1. Movies 1-3, plus some tie-in material
2. Movies 1-5 with no tie-ins
3. Movies 1-4 without TLK
4. Movies 4-5 with some of the previous backstory
5. Bumblebee
Sabrblade wrote:And, again, Bumblebee is no more incongruous with Movie 1 than any of the sequel films were.
Sabrblade wrote:
- Movie 1 painted Megatron up to be this big bad worst guy ever, and the AllSpark as the source of all Cybertronian life.
- But then ROTF went "Well, actually, Megatron was just working for someone else even worse than himself," and needed Optimus dead so The Fallen could reign supreme and destroy Earth's Sun, which would have destroyed the Earth as well.
- Then DOTM went, "Well, actually, he had also made a deal with Optimus's predecessor and needed Optimus alive so he could be located," and needed Earth intact for a plan involving the enslavement of humanity that would lead to them reconstructing Cybertron, which couldn't have happened if The Fallen had succeeded in destroying Earth in the previous movie.
- But then AOE and TLK both came along and spat in the face of Movie 1's AllSpark lore, with AOE going "Well, actually, there's these Creators who are now the ones who built the Transformers," and introduced a group of Knights (the Dinobots) into the lore, with Optimus also being a Knight, apparently.
- Then TLK was like "Well, actually, the Knights of yore were a completely different group from the Dinobots named the Guardian Knights that Optimus also had nothing to do with," and introduced Quintessa to, at first, seemingly fill the void left by AOE's introduction of the Creators, but then the movie did a complete 180 by then saying "Well, actually, she's just this alien 'Great Deciever' who lies about everything and should never be trusted by what she says." Oh, and it says that modern day Autobots like Bumblebee and Ironhide were on Earth back in WWII and when old wooden sailing ships were in use, rather than 2007 being Ironhide's first time on Earth.
Sabrblade wrote:All Bumblebee did was nullify TLK's claim of modern-day Transformers being on Earth in the distant past (and good riddance to that nonsense). Anything else there is between itself and Movie 1 can be handwaved away as easily as (if not more easily than) the issues between Movies 2-5 and Movie 1.
Sabrblade wrote:
- I know you're gonna mention "Optimus and others coming to Earth in 1987" as one such example, but like Lorenzo said, they don't stick around. They come to Earth in 1987, hide out from humanity for a bit, and then go back into space when they're free and clear to do so. Then Optimus and a small team come back to Earth 20 years later in 2007 when Bumblebee, having stayed behind on Earth, discovers that the AllSpark and Megatron are on the planet.
- Oh, and that red truck we see Bee driving next to on the bridge at the end, I never took that as Optimus, and have no reason to think of it as anything more than an Easter egg. When we see Optimus in robot mode on Earth, he acts as if he's only just then reunited with B-127 at that very moment, yet it's nighttime in that scene. Bee was driving next to the truck in broad daylight, several hours before his rendezvous with Optimus. It makes no sense for that truck to be Optimus even disregarding any of the other movies.
SW's SilverHammer wrote:Eat my ass funpub.
Burn wrote:And this is for taking Nemesis Maximo seriously.
*high fives Silly in the face*
carytheone wrote:I can't be assed to do any better right now.
Burn wrote:So I asked my partner this, and she couldn't answer, so now we're both curious.
Were Dropkick and Shatter named in the movie? Neither of us recall their names being mentioned at all.
Va'al wrote:Deadput wrote:Actually I don't know my mother's name is Valerie so is Va'al actually my mother?
Yes. Now go to your room and don't play with yourself.
Deadput wrote:Burn wrote:So I asked my partner this, and she couldn't answer, so now we're both curious.
Were Dropkick and Shatter named in the movie? Neither of us recall their names being mentioned at all.
No unfortunately which is a shame, one of my few criticisms with the movie, I feel like they could of introduced themselves by name to Sector 7 to appear more friendly but I can understand why they wouldn't bother telling the human's their names.
Hopefully a Cybertron movie if there is one could have the two in a smaller role but be named there.
Sadly, only B-127/Bumblebee, Optimus Prime, and Ravage were named in the movie. Shatter, Dropkick, Blitzwing, and all other TFs in this movie were only named in the end credits' voice cast list.Burn wrote:Deadput wrote:Burn wrote:So I asked my partner this, and she couldn't answer, so now we're both curious.
Were Dropkick and Shatter named in the movie? Neither of us recall their names being mentioned at all.
No unfortunately which is a shame, one of my few criticisms with the movie, I feel like they could of introduced themselves by name to Sector 7 to appear more friendly but I can understand why they wouldn't bother telling the human's their names.
Hopefully a Cybertron movie if there is one could have the two in a smaller role but be named there.
That ... is a massive balls up. They were the major bad guys and they weren't named? How does something like that get overlooked?
I mean, there's nothing explicit in the first movie that declared the 2007 arrive scene to be very first time that Optimus & Friends had ever been on Earth before (something which TLK did try to retcon in before this movie threw that out with its own less egregious take on the idea); it was only implied since we had no reason to think otherwise at the time. But now that we've had much more of the history revealed to us over time, our perception of the 2007 arrival scene is given new light by this movie showing that at least Optimus had been to Earth 20 years prior to that scene. And at that time, neither he nor any of the Autobots knew of the AllSpark being on Earth, so when they were ready to leave Earth between this movie at the first, they saw no reason to stick around if they believed the AllSpark was elsewhere, but were evidently keen enough to let Bumblebee stay behind "just in case".Nemesis Maximo wrote:I’m not sure I can agree with that 100%. Movie 1 seemed pretty clear on the fact that Optimus was there only after Bumblebee contacted him in that film, and that they were on earth for the Allspark, not to establish a base, but then they decided to stay on Earth because of the relationship they had just built with Thurman’s and the fact that it’s the last place the Allspark had been.
That's a good sentiment to have. But since there's a whole lot of empty unknown space between 1987 and 2007 in this timeline, there's a lot that we don't know about during that time that could serve to explain the connectivity between this movie and Movie 1. A lot can happen over the span of 20 years. and we know that at the beginning of this movie, the AllSpark is not a priority since merely getting off Cybertron and away to safety is the Autobots' main concern. Cybertron didn't look dead yet at the start of this movie, so searching for the Cube wouldn't yet be as urgent as when the planet does go dark later. For all we know, the quest for the AllSpark in this movie's timeline may not have formally begun until, say, 1991; four years after this movie's time and 16 years before Movie 1. We just don't know at this point. It's all 'wait and see' right now.Nemesis Maximo wrote:I’m not saying the continuity is airtight in the sequels, by any means. I just think that as a prequel, Bumblebee should be held to a higher standard of fitting into what was established.
Save for Megatron beingvery much alive and (mostly) well in DOTM, despite having definitely died and been dumped into the ocean at the end of Movie 1.Nemesis Maximo wrote:Here’s something I see when you put everything in those terms; ROTF seems to be the worst offender as far as continuity, obviously as a result of the Writer’s Strike (not defending the film, just stating fact). If you take out ROTF, more so than any other film, the continuity tightens right up.
Like I said, 20 years is a long time for things to happen between then and now.Nemesis Maximo wrote:I’ll give you “as easily as” but I definitely disagree about the issues being more easily handwaved. Again, being a prequel designed to show how we got to square one, it should fit into what square one established. Imagine if Rogue One didn’t fit in to established Star Wars continuity. To me, that’s what it feels like with Bumblebee doing it’s own thing.
Sure, but, in this case, I can't see any fault in the idea of the Autobots leaving Earth once they're able to after this movie's events. Their coming to Earth in this movie in the first place always struck me as a temporary thing. A tactical retreat to give the Autobots a chance to regroup and recuperate until they were ready to head back out and continuing fighting the good fight. Since at this point in the timeline the Autobots have no reason to seek any help from humanity (unlike in Movie 1 where they specifically needed help from the descendant of Archibald Witwicky), and need to remain autonomous in their time of hiding on Earth from the Decepticons (rather than fully bringing their war to Earth at this point), they wouldn't feel obligated to become the planet's guardians like they later do in the sequel films, and could leave Earth without fear of the Decepticons wrecking the planet in their absence, since the war wouldn't have fully spread to Earth yet.Sabrblade wrote:I mean, I hate taking anything LdB says as truth, he’s the epitome of the Hollywood Tool Producer. The man has no real clue.
Or, it's Travis Knight showing just how much of a G1 fanboy he is by going out of his way to include a truck and trailer like that that so heavily resemble G1 Cartoon Optimus Prime's altmode.Nemesis Maximo wrote:And I definitely took that red truck at the end as Optimus Prime himself. That’s way too specific of a reference to be anything but Optimus Prime.
Eh, this movie's got much better internal consistency when it comes to the transitions between night and day and scene locations (e.g. - no starting out in Washington D.C. and stepping outsite of the Smithsonian to suddenly be in Arizona).Nemesis Maximo wrote:And hey, shifting from Day to Night in a matter of minutes is something that just happens in Michael Bay movies, so maybe that’s also a reference to continuity!![]()
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote: Or, it's Travis Knight showing just how much of a G1 fanboy he is by going out of his way to include a truck and trailer like that that so heavily resemble G1 Cartoon Optimus Prime's altmode.
Va'al wrote:Deadput wrote:Actually I don't know my mother's name is Valerie so is Va'al actually my mother?
Yes. Now go to your room and don't play with yourself.
To show off the truck for additional G1 fanservice.Deadput wrote:Sabrblade wrote: Or, it's Travis Knight showing just how much of a G1 fanboy he is by going out of his way to include a truck and trailer like that that so heavily resemble G1 Cartoon Optimus Prime's altmode.
Then why did Bumblebee pull up and match speeds with that very truck specifically?
Marketing. And what else would they have that toy transform into if not the vehicle that was doubling up on the G1 fanwank hype train?Deadput wrote:And why does the Studio Series figure have that exact truck mode and the box saying that he was representing the "San Francisco Bridge" scene?
What sense would there be to make the truck be Optimus when he's shown to still be in his unchanged Cybertronian body in the very next scene?Deadput wrote:It's very obvious it's supposed to be Optimus Prime, why else would that scene be filmed the way it was and have the Optimus forest scene right afterwards with Bumblebee already with him?
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:What sense would there be to make the truck be Optimus when he's shown to still be in his unchanged Cybertronian body in the very next scene?
Va'al wrote:Deadput wrote:Actually I don't know my mother's name is Valerie so is Va'al actually my mother?
Yes. Now go to your room and don't play with yourself.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Looper wrote:Still, when Bee transforms into Sam's Camaro and drives off with Optimus, the film does connect nicely to Bay's franchise and upholds a mostly seamless handoff from solo movie to existing series, even with the timeline shake-up.
Yes, but at least this movie is the one that has had the most healthy doses of sense and logic put into it.o.supreme wrote:It's only after processing it, that it doesn't make sense, but then, as we both know, the movie continuity has been messed up for a long time.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:Yes, but at least this movie is the one that has had the most healthy doses of sense and logic put into it.o.supreme wrote:It's only after processing it, that it doesn't make sense, but then, as we both know, the movie continuity has been messed up for a long time.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:in which Sector Seven was shown to have Megatron frozen in ice, but it's better that they took out this scene since Megatron's design was changed to a different one from his 2007 movie look, which would have looked wrong).
Silverwing wrote:Also, I feel compelled to give the obligatory:![]()
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One for each year of the Movieverse's decade strong tenure. Here's to a few more explosive years!
It's not that his pose was different, it's that the replaced scene had changed Megatron to look less like Movie Megatron and more like G1 Megatron, when the onscreen flashbacks of Archibald Witwicky finding him in the 2007 movie had showed him to look the same as when he was in Sector Seven's captivity in 2007.TulioDude wrote:Saw the movie.Loved it.It was very charming.Sabrblade wrote:in which Sector Seven was shown to have Megatron frozen in ice, but it's better that they took out this scene since Megatron's design was changed to a different one from his 2007 movie look, which would have looked wrong).
My personal headcanon is that since the pose which Megatron was found in the ice is not same that he was in the Hoover Dam,is that Sector Seven partially unfrozen him and messed a bit with his body and maybe they could use that to explain the difference in the designs.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Yeah. Thanks for official confirmation of what we all knew.Travis Knight wrote:I think that continuity is certainly not a huge priority of Michael's.
There. I fixed that for ya.Travis Knight wrote:He prioritizes other things like![]()
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and spectacle and ass shots.
jtanimator wrote:okay, FINALLY an official executive of sorts who is associated with the Transformers films ADMITS that there's NO respect for continuity in the bayverse. He said it very politely, witch is to be expected, but he did, indeed, admit it.
can we all give Mr. Knight a round of applause for that alone?![]()
jtanimator wrote:okay, FINALLY an official executive of sorts who is associated with the Transformers films ADMITS that there's NO respect for continuity in the bayverse. He said it very politely, witch is to be expected, but he did, indeed, admit it.
can we all give Mr. Knight a round of applause for that alone?![]()
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