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There's been a very tiring argument within the Transformers community for years as to whether or not the new Live Action films we are getting are part of the same universe as previous live action Transformers films directed my Michael Bay. But in reality, the argument is pointless since Bay is still involved no matter what, the designs still feature aesthetics from the Bay era and this would not be the first soft reboot anyway.

We'll just look at the facts. Firstly, neither Hasbro nor Paramount want to totally disassociate themselves from the legacy of the Bay era films, nor dissociate themselves from Bay himself. Those films inspired a new generation of Transformers fans and brought in billions. So you'd never hear the word "reboot" from them so as not to alienate fans of the franchise. Plus both Travis Knight, director of Bumblebee, and Steven Caple Jr, director of Rise of the Beasts, along with Lorenzo Di Bonaventura, said that these "not made by Bay" films are within the live action universe we already know of. That was even one of the reasons why we couldn't have Megatron in the Cybertron scene in the Bumblebee movie. And fans thinking that either the Bumblebee movie or the upcoming Rise of the Beasts film have nothing to do with Michael Bay are wrong. Michael Bay was on set of Rise of the Beasts with Steven Caple Jr, the director, as the film was being shot. He is a hands on producer here, and you can see him in this Instagram video below:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CUvg7ifJHwK/?hl=en


Now in terms of designs, everything we have seen so far is indeed a departure form the 2007 film which had very alien designs. But that ignores 5 films since then where designs did evolve under Bay as well. So even if this is a "reboot", that doesn't mean that those who didn't like the live action designs will suddenly fall in love with them now. We just saw the toy for the upcoming film and here it is next to a toy of a character from a Bay directed film. Which is which? Can you tell from just the design cues? It looks like they both crawled out of the same factory. Simply said, we will still have complex designs with multi layered armor, a staple of live action movie designs.



Just to answer the previous questions in case you truly did not know, the figure on right is Hot Rod from a film directed by Michael Bay and the figure on the left is Battletrap from the new film, which Michael Bay is producing but not directing. And that brings another trope diehard fans hate about live action films: name slaps. Like with Bayverse Crosshairs and Crankcase, this Battletrap is just a reused name of a G1 toy with no reference to that character, which in this case had a very unique gimmick. This is a trend we saw in the Bay films and it is alive and well here. Plus, Bumblebee retains the same face he had from the Bay directed films, along with the car radio voice and the Camaro alt mode, offering a loose continuity with the previous films. I'd hope an actual reboot would forgo the design cues from the biggest staple of the Bay era, Bumblebee. But instead, we are getting all these design throughlines.



Also, if this is a "soft reboot", that doesn't mean it's not within the Bayverse. It would be (at least) the second soft reboot of its kind in the Bayverse, after all. After the initial trilogy, Michael Bay changed things up in Age of Extinction and the Last Knight. Optimus got a major redesign, looking more like a superhero than a robot made of car parts, and the faces looked more human, especially the faces of the villains (like Lockdown). That change in design carried over to the Bumblebee movie villains like Shatter and will probably carry over to the Rise of the Beasts villains as well. Any evidence of incongruence to continuity story is far from being a smoking gun when a film like The Last Knight exists. In that film, everything we saw before was retconned and continuity flew out the window.

That's why in the end, it really doesn't matter if this film is labelled as a reboot or not. You can call it a reboot if you like but remember:
- No one at Hasbro or Paramount is calling it that
- It is labelled as TF 7 in all toy listings as well as on set
- Michael Bay is still involved and on set
- There are still reused G1 names with no connection
- Design elements are carried over from previous films; Bumblebee still has the Bayverse face, radio voice and Camaro alt mode

Plus, you'll still get scenes focused on humans, including a scene where the main male character goes for a job interview (again). Trying to piece it with the other films will make as much sense as piecing The Last Knight with the rest (let's not, let's just choose sanity). Regardless, we saw with Bumblebee that we can still get a good story with a greater emphasis on the bots within a film that was meant to be a prequel to the Bay films. So nothing is stopping this film from being good too, regardless if it is in the Bayverse. And also, most importantly, nothing spares it from being terrible if it's not in the Bayverse either.

Nameslaps were also common in other continuities outside of the movies. The two Scourges in RID and Cybertron as well as Inferno being in Beast Wars and Wheeljack in Armada being numerous examples.

A great article Will, though just sadly think that many won't listen.

Mind you, with its loose connection with continuity, it looks like it has more in common with other Transformers fiction than people care to admit

Quantum Surge wrote:Nameslaps were also common in other continuities outside of the movies. The two Scourges in RID and Cybertron as well as Inferno being in Beast Wars and Wheeljack in Armada being numerous examples.

Oh yeah, and animated as well with Bulkhead. It's always been happening and will keep happening, so that part won't change. Fun fact though, Beast Wars Transmetal 2 Prowl is not a nameslap, that is legitimately G1 Prowl in the Beast Wars universe.

ZeroWolf wrote:A great article Will, though just sadly think that many won't listen.

Mind you, with its loose connection with continuity, it looks like it has more in common with other Transformers fiction than people care to admit

It's just to have it as a reference to go back to if anyone is adamant about any aspect. It's been well received online though, with a lot of people on Facebook joking that it's always been like this since all the movies contradict one another, so nothing really matters.

I do hope its a reboot though, because if not is completely pointless to make movies that lead to the narrative disaster the the Bayverse is, and I mean, about the design of Bumblebee, Bee's movie design is iconic to the character and the kids that love him, so it makes sense to have cues to that look, and I hope the movies follow that path, grab inspirations from every continuity, not just G1, for example I like the way that Primal's beat mode has some clues from Beast Machines, and I hope that Scourge looks more like he did in Car Robots, though about the name slaping, we all know that ther is a big difference between naming a bot Battletrap, and naming a bot Hot Rod.

Don't get me wrong I at least understand some fans' frustation with nameslaps but I personally never cared? Names are names, I'm not gonna be pissed that some guy named "Brian" is nothing like the "Brian" I met yesterday.
As long as both are cool pals, it doesn't matter to me!

worst movie continuity in history. makes the xmen franchise look bad. and thats saying something.

griftimus prime wrote:worst movie continuity in history. makes the xmen franchise look bad. and thats saying something.

At least it's not the beast that is the Japanese G1 continuity...that tried to tie in the movie franchise too! (Fortunately it was avoided to spare everyone headaches trying to piece it together.)

SpaceEagle wrote:Don't get me wrong I at least understand some fans' frustation with nameslaps but I personally never cared? Names are names, I'm not gonna be pissed that some guy named "Brian" is nothing like the "Brian" I met yesterday.
As long as both are cool pals, it doesn't matter to me!

This ^

william-james88 wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:A great article Will, though just sadly think that many won't listen.

Mind you, with its loose connection with continuity, it looks like it has more in common with other Transformers fiction than people care to admit

It's just to have it as a reference to go back to if anyone is adamant about any aspect. It's been well received online though, with a lot of people on Facebook joking that it's always been like this since all the movies contradict one another, so nothing really matters.

That's good then, and it's true. All we need from these movies is to be entertaining (which I've found all but two to be entertaining on some level.)

I would say kind of does matter if its a reboot, because not being a reboot, and being set before the other movies limits what a viewer can expect to see happen, because all of the players have to be in their appropriate starting areas to maintain continuity with the previous movies.

But that would assume continuity or consistency matter at this point, which they do not.

Maybe Optimus will have multiple battles with a surprisingly formidable C-string villain, or maybe he'll effortlessly defeat the enemy leader and then fall down a staircase and die. It doesn't matter because you'll have no expectations to invest in beyond the certainty that he'll still be alive for the next movie.

I'm going to sit back, eat popcorn and drink a New Glarus, and have fun. Not going to think into it. Not going in with expectations outside of Prime and Bee being similar to the last movie. I'm going to be ENTERTAINED. That is, after all, what it's for.

And bad movies just require more beers to be good, which is ALSO a good thing. It's a win-win situation!

First-Aid wrote:I'm going to sit back, eat popcorn and drink a New Glarus, and have fun. Not going to think into it. Not going in with expectations outside of Prime and Bee being similar to the last movie. I'm going to be ENTERTAINED. That is, after all, what it's for.

And bad movies just require more beers to be good, which is ALSO a good thing. It's a win-win situation!

I'll drink to that.

I'm also more interested if the toys are good and look cool, and so far from what I've seen of the upcoming Battletrap figure it seems like that will indeed be the case!

Consistency has been throw out the door since 2017, I'm not gonna just sit here and take it. I want quality and competent continuity God damn it, and we don't get it by planting a fence post firmly up our afts. Stop being okay with this or else it will STAY like this.

SpaceEagle wrote:I'm also more interested if the toys are good and look cool, and so far from what I've seen of the upcoming Battletrap figure it seems like that will indeed be the case!

Me too, I do like new movie toys since they are based on new designs (usually) which usually inspire new transformations and breakthroughs in modern engineering.

On another note, while many are very positive regarding this article, and it's getting the conversation going, someone did suggest that it sounded like I was hating on Bay. I do see how it could come across that way but it wasn't my intention. I just wanted to present the facts as they are and then anyone can then add their opinions to it.

So, for Michael Bay's involvement, it's mentioned heavily there because it's the glue that holds this film to the others in a production and thematic sense (there's no use in addressing continuity, that ship sailed the minute Bee went back to a radio voice in ROTF). So, for those hoping for something devoid of Bay, not happening. But that's only a negative perspective if you don't like Bay and don't like any of the films he was ever involved in, one's feelings are completely independent from my feelings regarding Bay.

As for me, it's irrelevant because I've lost interest in the movies. The first one was good and fun, with each following movie getting gradually worse and contradictory until The Last Knight, which was so insultingly stupid that it killed any desire I would have in seeing any more of them. I remember watching Beast Wars and enjoying the series, so I have no need to see this. I would say I'd leave my toys on the shelves for y'all to have, but nothing ever shows up at the stores around here anymore.

I'll probably watch this because it seems fun. Bumblebee was good fun too, and while this has a different director, what we've been shown so far looks like it'll have good bones.. I do hope the continuity isn't a total kerfuffle, I still can't forgive The Last Knight for what the hell it set up. Along with being a crap movie in general.

I'm still focused on the toys but 'ey, having a good film would be nice too.

the term "Transformers Continuity" has been an oxymoron since g1

Immortal Starscream wrote:the term "Transformers Continuity" has been an oxymoron since g1

This, a hundred times this.

ZeroWolf wrote:

Immortal Starscream wrote:the term "Transformers Continuity" has been an oxymoron since g1

This, a hundred times this.

Didn't the original cartoon have like, three different origins for the Constructicons or something? It's always been a mess...

william-james88 wrote:Why it Makes No Difference if the Upcoming Transformers Film is a "Reboot" or Not

Is this Seiberton's official stance? If not, this story really needs an "OPINION" or "william-james88's Column" identifier or similar.

There are people who enjoy following continuity regardless of how fragmented a series is. And when making this view you have to remember the fanbase you're speaking to: like that of Star Wars and Marvel, Transformers fans value these things. There are folk who don't want Bumblebee etc to be part of the original series and, to them, knowing this is a fact is important to them.

If it's a new timeline then think of the Star Wars shows Obi-Wan kenobi and Andor: ROTB cannot kill any characters who are in the other movies. Some people lose tension because of this (or reported same with the SW series).

We have to remember this hobby engrosses people in a major way. I'm quite casual compared to most posters here but the idea of Bumblebee and ROTB (why on earth does Mr. Starscream keep calling it "Rise of the Best"??) being separate is a good thing as it suggests a new narrative timeline. I really enjoy those movies but much prefer the new direction introduced in Bumblebee.

In my opinion.

RotorstormNZ wrote:

william-james88 wrote:Why it Makes No Difference if the Upcoming Transformers Film is a "Reboot" or Not

Is this Seiberton's official stance? If not, this story really needs an "OPINION" or "william-james88's Column" identifier or similar.

There are people who enjoy following continuity regardless of how fragmented a series is. And when making this view you have to remember the fanbase you're speaking to: like that of Star Wars and Marvel, Transformers fans value these things. There are folk who don't want Bumblebee etc to be part of the original series and, to them, knowing this is a fact is important to them.

If it's a new timeline then think of the Star Wars shows Obi-Wan kenobi and Andor: ROTB cannot kill any characters who are in the other movies. Some people lose tension because of this (or reported same with the SW series).

We have to remember this hobby engrosses people in a major way. I'm quite casual compared to most posters here but the idea of Bumblebee and ROTB (why on earth does Mr. Starscream keep calling it "Rise of the Best"??) being separate is a good thing as it suggests a new narrative timeline. I really enjoy those movies but much prefer the new direction introduced in Bumblebee.

In my opinion.

It's not an opinion piece since I just present the facts we have to tell fans where we are at in preparation for the upcoming film. Hasbro has deliberately never said that the upcoming film is unrelated to the previoud Bay films. The official seibertron stance is that the narrative connection is purposefully ambiguous. The title is there to tell people not to stress about it.

Also, the article is labelled as an editorial.

Also, if this is a "soft reboot", that doesn't mean it's not within the Bayverse. It would be (at least) the second soft reboot of its kind in the Bayverse, after all.

Who was saying it was a "soft" reboot? Unless RotB severely changes course from Blunderbee, it's a HARD reboot.

After the initial trilogy, Michael Bay changed things up in Age of Extinction and the Last Knight. Optimus got a major redesign, looking more like a superhero than a robot made of car parts, and the faces looked more human, especially the faces of the villains (like Lockdown). That change in design carried over to the Bumblebee movie villains like Shatter and will probably carry over to the Rise of the Beasts villains as well.

Because Blunderbee started as a prequel, but then got hijacked late in editing to be turned into what by all appearances was a reboot.

Any evidence of incongruence to continuity story is far from being a smoking gun when a film like The Last Knight exists. In that film, everything we saw before was retconned and continuity flew out the window.

Load of crap, IMO. It was strained certainly, especially all the patching the comics tried to do, but not in a way that things couldn't be tied back together. And, you know, The Last Knight actually had direct ties to the goings-on of the prior movies, including showing that pre-AoE Autobots other than Bumblebee survived Cemetery Wind, bringing back Seymour Simmons, the "We were brothers once." "Once." exchange between Megatron and Optimus...
Whereas Blunderbee had its explicit ties to the plots of the other movies REMOVED LATE IN EDITING.
There's a difference between AoE and TLK throwing further big wrinkles into the backstory... and Blunderbee literally being edited to expunge its story links to the other films.

That's why in the end, it really doesn't matter if this film is labelled as a reboot or not. You can call it a reboot if you like but remember:
- No one at Hasbro or Paramount is calling it that

Only because of, IMO, a mix of cowardice and an inability to make up their minds.

- It is labelled as TF 7 in all toy listings as well as on set

And unless RotB repairs the story links Blunderbee severed, that means nothing beyond laziness.

- Michael Bay is still involved and on set

But he's not the director.

- There are still reused G1 names with no connection

Ever hear of RiD (2001)? The Unicron Trilogy? Even Animated to a degree? All that naming practice proves it's not Yet Another G1 Continuity, not that it's connected narratively.

- Design elements are carried over from previous films; Bumblebee still has the Bayverse face, radio voice and Camaro alt mode

Again, because Blunderbee started as a Bayverse prequel before being hijacked late in editing, so they're still stuck with that aesthetic.

Personally I just thought it was bonkers that OP and the 'Bots (and I guess Megs and the 'Cons) not really knowing what Earth even was only for the 'Bots to have apparently been fighting alongside humans throughout history.
I could've accepted the original Primes having been on prehistoric Earth then leaving as to why future generations didn't remember it, though it is funny that they built a star harvester on the Chaos Bringer's body without even knowing it according to TLK.

william-james88 wrote:Also, the article is labelled as an editorial.

Sorry, I missed that! I unreservedly apologise.