Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby -Kanrabat- » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:31 pm

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That "white = bad/evil" mindset hold back the black community a lot. There's that very toxic culture that those who work hard in their studies and are good at school are just "playing the white game". So to be accepted, the guy just give up school or dumb himself down, ruining his future.

Funny that those who refuse to buy into this and work despite being rejected by their peers actually succeed in society.

This next segment illustrate this perfectly. But I'm sure some people will still do mental gymnastics to justify that woman's insane racist beliefs.

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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby High Command » Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:01 pm

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ShadowKatt wrote:The whole thing is **** stupid.


The whole thing? You seem to be taking it very personally. Since this is displayed in a museum, is that not the correct place to put things to be studied within an appropriate context?

Anyway no need to labour the point. It is what it is and none of us think it's all that great. I say it has a few good points to make in asking people to re-evaluate but other points it gets wrong or are self-contradictory.

I am reminded of a book I once read which tried to define Englishness, as opposed to Britishness (which includes the Scots and Welsh who have fairly strong self-identities). It concluded that seperating English identity from a wider British one was quite difficult and the auther was unable to form any strong conclusions. Lumping people together into homogeneous groups with clearly defined characteristics is very tricky and often you find contradictory traits.

Sometimes what matters more are shared experiences that allow people who have not met before to have something in common. Steering wildly back on topic, regardless what you think of their methods or motivations, these BLM protests are a major shared experience going on right now, one that everyone is experiencing regardless of which side they're on.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby -Kanrabat- » Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:15 pm

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Right now the BLM "protests" are just RIOTS made by anarchists and criminals. The "cause" no longer have the support of the average Joe.

There's also some place where they are doing a literal PROTECTION RACKET towards local businesses.




No matter how the cause was noble at the start and how much support it had from the public at the beginning, the BLM movement is no longer about police brutality. It's been either exposed as, or being hijacked by Marxists, criminals, and anarchists.

The original message is now lost among all that violence.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby High Command » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:52 am

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So you (and 30 mins of YouTube) say.

I say they're all lovely and handing out kittens and puppies to everyone. That's not true but nor is your statement of them all being criminals.

Alternative view: increasing police brutality to make protests against police brutality go away is a poor tactic.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby Rodimus Prime » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:05 pm

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High Command wrote:Alternative view: increasing police brutality to make protests against police brutality go away is a poor tactic.
Agreed. However, this mess has stopped being a protest a long time ago. I understand a large part of the protesters are peaceful, but a seemingly equally large part are not. If the peaceful protesters want their voices heard and not be smeared by these thugs, vandals and murderers, they need to separate themselves from those people. If they see them amongst them while marching, kick them out, push them out, get away from them, so the police, who have the duty to respond to public disturbances, can tell the difference.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby AcademyofDrX » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:18 pm

Rodimus Prime wrote:However, this mess has stopped being a protest a long time ago. I understand a large part of the protesters are peaceful, but a seemingly equally large part are not.

That "seemingly equally large" line is doing more work than you think it is, and shows this comment says a lot more about you than the protestors.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby Rodimus Prime » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:35 pm

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AcademyofDrX wrote:
Rodimus Prime wrote:However, this mess has stopped being a protest a long time ago. I understand a large part of the protesters are peaceful, but a seemingly equally large part are not.

That "seemingly equally large" line is doing more work than you think it is, and shows this comment says a lot more about you than the protestors.
I'm not interested in what anyone thinks about me. I made a statement and you didn't (couldn't?) refute it so you attempted a deliberately vague personal insult.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby AcademyofDrX » Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:01 pm

What percentage of protests include destruction of property? How many protesters participate in that? What are your sources for following the protests? If you don't think those questions are relevant, then you've made up your mind.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby Rodimus Prime » Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:12 pm

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I do think they're relevant. The answers determine the true effects of the protests. However, they're not relevant to the previous statement I made, because regardless of whether the percentage is 2, 20 or 100, as long as peaceful protesters tolerate the violent punks and thugs among them, their message will be tainted.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby AcademyofDrX » Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:55 pm

So your rhetoric says protests are almost always violent, which isn't true, but anyway that doesn't matter because any amount of violence undermines the cause. To meet your standard, Black Lives Matter protests should also be All Property Matters protests, and civilians need to be responsible for deescalation and controlling property damage even as police show themselves incapable of the same. Sorry, I believe Black Lives Matter is the more important cause, and you're not persuadable until you question your values.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby Rodimus Prime » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:20 pm

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AcademyofDrX wrote:So your rhetoric says protests are almost always violent,
Can you please highlight where in my statements I said that? Because I'm certain I did not.
which isn't true, but anyway that doesn't matter because any amount of violence undermines the cause.
Any amount tolerated by the protesters who want to be heard. I did say that. Because by tolerating violence you condone it, and it becomes part of your message. Inaction is complicity according to your message, remember?
To meet your standard, Black Lives Matter protests should also be All Property Matters protests,
Destroying other civilians' property is not an effective way to convey the message if they want to be heard properly. Actions will always be louder than words and those on the other side will pay attention to the loudest form of communication. The protesters need to realize that if they want to get anything accomplished, otherwise other cities will end up like Seattle.
and civilians need to be responsible for deescalation and controlling property damage even as police show themselves incapable of the same.
They need to be responsible for their own actions, juat like the police do. When the police act unjustly, which is what started this whole thing, civilians can't do the same because then they just lower themselves to the corrupt police officers' level, which is what has happened.
Sorry, I believe Black Lives Matter is the more important cause, and you're not persuadable until you question your values.
I don't need to be persuadable because I don't agree with your destructive method of communication, nor do I need to question my values, because obviously they don't align with yours and until you take off your blinders to what's really going on, they never will.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby -Kanrabat- » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:21 pm

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AcademyofDrX wrote:(...).


You will sing a whole different tune if/when your house or your livelihood get burned down. Oh you will sing a lot when the mob come to YOUR house with threats. And you will stop doing mental gymnastics altogether when someone close to you get murdered simply for saying "all lives matter" or for "supporting Trump."

A friendly reminder:

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That was back in May. Now it this times hundreds.
Believe what you want. If you live in the USA, especially near one of the "hot zones", reality will catch up to you sooner or later. Maybe then you will get some empathy.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby AcademyofDrX » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:39 pm

"To what's really going on." Black lives matter, that's what's really going on, the rest is whataboutism. Honestly? I wish that there was less violence during the protests, because every conversation about property destruction is one less conversation about more important topics. Unfortunately, arguments like these remind me that there will always be something else that invalidates the struggle for racial justice. I don't think there's anything valuable we have to say to each other at this point. As a site mod I can't mute you, so I'll just need to ignore you.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby Jeddostotle7 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:42 pm

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-Kanrabat- wrote:Right now the BLM "protests" are just RIOTS made by anarchists and criminals. The "cause" no longer have the support of the average Joe.

There's also some place where they are doing a literal PROTECTION RACKET towards local businesses.




No matter how the cause was noble at the start and how much support it had from the public at the beginning, the BLM movement is no longer about police brutality. It's been either exposed as, or being hijacked by Marxists, criminals, and anarchists.

The original message is now lost among all that violence.

please stop pretending that posting a tim pool video is anything other than an admittance of ignorance at best
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby Rodimus Prime » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:52 pm

Motto: "A knife is simple, using it ain't."
AcademyofDrX wrote:"To what's really going on." Black lives matter, that's what's really going on, the rest is whataboutism. Honestly? I wish that there was less violence during the protests, because every conversation about property destruction is one less conversation about more important topics.
My point exactly. If the violence wasn't part of the protests, the actual problems could be discussed and maybe even solved. But the message is distorted because it is allowed to be. And you can't expect the destruction to be just ignored because that makes the people who had everything destroyed even bigger victims.
Unfortunately, arguments like these remind me that there will always be something else that invalidates the struggle for racial justice. I don't think there's anything valuable we have to say to each other at this point. As a site mod I can't mute you, so I'll just need to ignore you.
Yes, keep your head in the sand just because you're not hearing your own rhetoric from everyone else. Such lack of willingness to move forward is what invalidates your message. Hopefully others who actually have open minds for solutions and can make a difference will listen. You're right, there's nothing else that can be said.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby Notimus Crime » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:25 pm

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So I've been reading everyone's thoughts on BLM over the past (roughly) two months this thread has been active (no matter how unpleasant it's gotten. From all sides), mostly because I like seeing and thinking about political discourse. I'm often too cowardly to engage with it myself but for right now at least I've decided to stop keeping myself silent and throw my hat into the ring here. More specifically I wanted to draw attention to the fact that rioting in relation to civil unrest is nothing new and shouldn't be unexpected (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States. take particular note of how the amount of riots ratchets up in the 60's). Do I personally advocate for violence or agree with its use? No. But I can certainly see where those who have engaged in it are coming from. And the problem with the image of BLM isn't going to go away even if every single non-violent protester were to hold up signs saying "non-violence is the way" or BLM's website puts up a banner saying "We hereby disavow every use of violence in the name of the George Floyd". Even Martin Luther King Jr, Mr. Nonviolent-protest himself, was a controversial figure in his time and was met with repeated (and baseless) accusations by his opponents of preaching non violence but inciting violence, as demonstrated by this political cartoon that was sent straight to the man himself
Image
No matter what Black Lives Matters or the people who support it do, they are going to be vilified. Even if there wasn't violence/looting, it would have been vilified for other reasons (probably because of the whole "BUT MUH STATUES" thing or edgy teenagers spray painting BLM on stuff). Heck every time a nonviolent protester gets killed you hear someone trying to justify the motives of the killer. Here's a video about some of the vehicular instances (seemed particularly appropriate given transformers and everything).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KRs2MWfM4E
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