The Energon Pub

News Credits: 2 · Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:02 pm

As the subject title asks, have TFs ever been truly alien? What I mean by that is when have TF characters ever been portrayed as alien beings with respect to their psychology? When we get down to it, the majority of TF characters have been written as basically anthropomorphic machines in both appearance and mentality.

This topic is partly inspired by my recent re-reading of The Last Stand of The Wreckers where the characters were all portrayed as very human in their mannerisms. I know part of it was intentional but it seemed like I was reading about humans dressed up in robot costumes rather than about alien beings who were mechanical in nature.

Also, the recent news of Transformers: Prime involving the advertising that the show will involve "more human drama than ever" kicked up some apprehension from some of our board members but it seems like they are opposed to the presence of human characters and drama involving them rather than humanistic drama from robot characters.

Now I understand that if the characters are too alien in their personalities, it would be difficult for viewers to relate to the protagonists on some level but at the same time it just feels kind of cheesy when we're told by the story that these are giant alien robots yet they display many human qualities.

News Credits: 3 · Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:08 pm

I always thought that some of the best Transformers bits were the ones where they don't quite get Earth culture. Actually, one of the few moments that I actually enjoyed in the first Bay movie was when the Autobots were transformed on Sam's front lawn. It showed that the alien robots understood the concept of disguise and infiltration, but they hadn't quite realize basic social decorum (cars don't belong on lawns) -- or even that some of their disguises weren't all that inconspicuous (large trucks with flame-details).

And while I don't always agree with the ways that writers deal with human / robot interactions, I generally find Transformers stories that don't involve actual humans to be weak. It's implausible for giant robots to battle it out in some Earthbound setting and there be nary a police car or army helicopter (or even terrified onlooker) in sight.

As for stories about Transformers on Cybertron, I agree that making TF culture too close to contemporary Western culture can be jarring. In a sense, it is probably because TF started as a narrative aimed at kids, so all the stories had to be somehow didactic or allegorical. Even the more mature adult narratives today have to be built atop that premise.

If Transformers had a total relaunch from the ground up and aimed only at adults, more work could go into restructuring TF culture...but I don't think it would be all that recognizable to fans of the old G1.

Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:08 pm

We, as fans, sometimes read too much into this. Transformers collectively is fiction created to sell toys.

Remember aliens with tech as advanced as their own would not DIE because their current physical body was destroyed. The alien would have multiple backups of it's personality.

The list goes on and on... just enjoy what you can.

News Credits: 1 · Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:04 pm

I think WreckGar from G1 is the best example of alien behaviour.

the Junkions only understand human culture based on what they've seen on tv, and they use it as the sole source of their knowledge.

Meanwhile, their approach to combat takes full advantage of their mechanical bodies. Losing a limb to a Junkion doesn't even phase them. knocking them down only manages to stir them up.

News Credits: 37 · Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:14 pm

They are alien. Their alien qualities are constantly being at war. In all series that have actually shown alot of Cybertronian culture (the only ones I can think of are Animated, the movies, and WFC) they have always been different. In animated they where like a governmental species that operated off of ranks and a caste (sort of like in TF exodus) but you can still work youre way up. In the movies they're more of a warlike tribal species, the dynasty of the primes, Starscream's markings, being born into an important family. And WFC its kind of a mixture off both.

News Credits: 3 · Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:55 pm

Transformers have rarely been alien because the viewer/reader needs to connect to them.

Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:29 pm

To me they were the "least alien" in G1. Constantly using human slang and speech patterns. As the universe evolved writers started using more robotic/alien words. Like 'bot instead of man or dude, "by the allspark" instead of "My god" ect...

To me though where they've always looked the least alien was their faces, even the ones with faceplates or visors still look quite human in some way. A few exceptions of course, Shockwave. Whirl. And the basic human form. Torso, 2 arms, 2 legs, 1 head.

What always got me though is the Primals(animal forms) Most all are Earth animals.
But who's to say Cybertron would have such animals? Turbofoxes? Titanium Moose Bot?
Always seemed like they were lacking in thought or originality when they came up with these things.
It could be taken that in the Transformers universe all planets have certain animal species in common... but I'd prefer to think otherwise.

News Credits: 3 · Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:20 am

Catalyst Prime wrote:To me they were the "least alien" in G1. Constantly using human slang and speech patterns. As the universe evolved writers started using more robotic/alien words. Like 'bot instead of man or dude, "by the allspark" instead of "My god" ect...

To me though where they've always looked the least alien was their faces, even the ones with faceplates or visors still look quite human in some way. A few exceptions of course, Shockwave. Whirl. And the basic human form. Torso, 2 arms, 2 legs, 1 head.

What always got me though is the Primals(animal forms) Most all are Earth animals.
But who's to say Cybertron would have such animals? Turbofoxes? Titanium Moose Bot?
Always seemed like they were lacking in thought or originality when they came up with these things.
It could be taken that in the Transformers universe all planets have certain animal species in common... but I'd prefer to think otherwise.

Let's not forget robotto possum #-o

News Credits: 1 · Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:57 am

What truly bothers me is the naming of certain characters. Bumblebee, Jazz, and Mudflap are very "earthly" words.

At first, one might rationalize that Cybertronians have known about Earth, and simply picked up names that they felt complemented/illustrated their respective personalities, much like Native Americans. The problem is, every iteration of different TF universes has it that Earth is an unknown alien planet before the TF's either crash landed on it (or in the Bayverse's case, were drawn to it because of the allspark). And characters like Bumblebee have existed LONG before the TF's ever knew of Earth's existence.

So the question remains: how do these bots get named Bumblebee, Jazz and Mudflap when there are obviously no bumblebees, Jazz music or mudflaps (I'm not sure if there's even mud on a metallic planet) on Cybertron?

All in all, I keep having to remind myself that this is a cartoon from the innocent 80's created to promote and market a bunch of transforming toys from Japan.

I guess children just didn't ask so many questions back in the day....

Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:02 am

"Do all small pink things ask so many questions?" (Bumblebee to Buster in Marvel's TF #1)

That was a great bit of alieness there. That and the fact too that the Ark initially didn't recognize humans as lifeforms as someone just pointed out. I remember when that happened again just after Perceptor's crew arrived on Earth via the Space Bridge, and there was that great image of Beachcomber and Cosmos affectionately caressing military cars :lol:

Also, I recall that issue #3 of the Marvel series had Optimus remarking to himself in his thoughts that "the humans don't undestand; our form of life is far different than theirs." (Or something like that) This was in response to Spider-Man's remark on their not seeming to care that Gears was 'dead' in a pile at their feet. All of this is about as alien as I remember them being.

In terms of the question, no, I don't think they've ever been truly alien, much as other pop-culture alien-icons like Spock, Yoda, Worf, E.T. have never been so in the truest sense. As it's been pointed out, if they're too alien, then it's more difficult to relate.

I think there should be a balance though of relatability and quirks that denote their being different. This seems difficult for many writers to do though, and more often than not, the human expressions etc. just go to far; even as a kid I sort of raised an eyebrow at Prime telling Megs that he was in the driver's seat :lol:

Oh, and anyone remember Basketrek and it's Ballobots! Lol!

Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:15 pm

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:So the question remains: how do these bots get named Bumblebee, Jazz and Mudflap when there are obviously no bumblebees, Jazz music or mudflaps (I'm not sure if there's even mud on a metallic planet) on Cybertron?

For my own little bit of fanmade universe, I've always used their names as callsigns they picked once on earth. That their real names were impossible to pronounce with organic vocal cords...ect...

The 2007 movie seems to have taken a similar idea as well, when Sam and Mikaela are meeting the crew and Optimus introduces Jazz saying it's his callsign.

Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:09 pm

Well, it said that the Autobots in the movie learned about earth culture through the web, so that's could be source for names for the Autobots.

Well, as for the whole Alien aspect, I think the fact they're sentient mechanical beings make them alien enough for me. As for the whole anthropomorphic aspect, it works well for most TF stories, and the original series characters always struck me as old soldiers working together. I mean it's what they are on top of being robots.

News Credits: 668 · Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:39 pm

Catalyst Prime wrote:For my own little bit of fanmade universe, I've always used their names as callsigns they picked once on earth. That their real names were impossible to pronounce with organic vocal cords...ect...

Now see? This is reasonable. I can easily get behind that kind of thinking. It allows for fantasy in a realistic situation. Both worlds can meet and gel.

As for this topic, it's humorous, and I have to agree with what's been pointed out. A lot of it makes you

to the writers, followed by #-o

.

But it also makes me feel even more sure of my initial thoughts on what's going on in the fandom: We're taking this too seriously, and forgetting that kids are the target audience, and they simply just don't care about stuff like this. I'm not sure we should either. If we focus on stuff like this, we miss out on the bigger picture.

People say kids aren't dumb and stuff like this patronizes them. Well, it's true that children are far smarter than we give them credit for, but I'm not sure the writers are trying to approach the audience as being stupid. I think they realize kids don't care about the minute details, have an attention span the size of a gnat, and the writers have a deadline to meet. If they quibbled over every detail, fixed everything to be "OMG this is brilliant, they're getting an Emmy!" kinda stuff, I honestly don't think we'd have as much fun with it, and I don't think the kids would be even remotely interested in it.

On the flipside, the shows having plot holes and dumbness lead to threads like this, which gives us stuff to talk about during a lull, so you're kinda screwed either way. lol

News Credits: 1 · Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:47 pm

Catalyst Prime wrote:
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:So the question remains: how do these bots get named Bumblebee, Jazz and Mudflap when there are obviously no bumblebees, Jazz music or mudflaps (I'm not sure if there's even mud on a metallic planet) on Cybertron?

For my own little bit of fanmade universe, I've always used their names as callsigns they picked once on earth. That their real names were impossible to pronounce with organic vocal cords...ect...

The 2007 movie seems to have taken a similar idea as well, when Sam and Mikaela are meeting the crew and Optimus introduces Jazz saying it's his callsign.

A very valid theory, Catalyst Prime, as far as the Bayverse is concerned. OP did mention that "Jazz" was his designation instead of his actual name.

I think the only time when this theory might not work is during the pre-Earth era in the WFC game, where our favorite "eventual" yellow Volkswagen refers to himself as Bumblebee.

Chupacabra Convoy wrote:Well, it said that the Autobots in the movie learned about earth culture through the web, so that's could be source for names for the Autobots.

That's what I thought, too, except the characters would have needed a name during their pre-Earth Cybertronian days. In the 2007 movie's narrative by OP, it is said that they came to an unknown planet called Earth, which means TF's never even knew we existed until they detected the allspark on our little mudball.

That, in turn, means that Bee and Jazz would have had to be born/assembled/manufactured only after their discovery of Earth.

I guess as long as each TF continuity keeps with tradition and has it that Earth was unknown to Cybertron until they crash landed/detected the allspark, it will clash with a very calid theory of them having known about us and our culture ever since latching onto our first radio/TV broadcast in the 1950's(?).

Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:53 pm

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:
That's what I thought, too, except the characters would have needed a name during their pre-Earth Cybertronian days. In the 2007 movie's narrative by OP, it is said that they came to an unknown planet called Earth, which means TF's never even knew we existed until they detected the allspark on our little mudball.

That, in turn, means that Bee and Jazz would have had to be born/assembled/manufactured only after their discovery of Earth.

I never said that they were born on earth. I was merely pointing out that is where they got their names from. If anything it shows how quickly they were able to learn about earth culture, and supports the idea that they assume new names that closely resembles what their Cybertronian names are. If not in pronunciation, but meaning.

News Credits: 1 · Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:22 am

Chupacabra Convoy wrote:
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:
That's what I thought, too, except the characters would have needed a name during their pre-Earth Cybertronian days. In the 2007 movie's narrative by OP, it is said that they came to an unknown planet called Earth, which means TF's never even knew we existed until they detected the allspark on our little mudball.

That, in turn, means that Bee and Jazz would have had to be born/assembled/manufactured only after their discovery of Earth.

I never said that they were born on earth. I was merely pointing out that is where they got their names from. If anything it shows how quickly they were able to learn about earth culture, and supports the idea that they assume new names that closely resembles what their Cybertronian names are. If not in pronunciation, but meaning.

Oh, so THAT'S what you meant. I like that idea. In fact, it actually makes a lot of sense, considering their ability to assume new alt modes--the idea that the names of Cybertonians are transient like their forms and alt modes is actually very plausible.

In the comics universe (don't know which continuity, since I don't follow TF comics), Drift changed his name from Deadlock after switching sides, so that's actually a good basis for plausibility.

Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:11 am

Most of the time, Transformers seem to exhibit human-type personalities.

Consider those personalities and the differences between them.

Could it be said that human personality types are alien to each other?!

If we look past appearances, we see that there are plenty of 'alien types' trying to co-exist on Earth already.

One of the reasons for imagining aliens like Transformers is to help humans to understand different attitudes in other humans.

An old English saying: 'There's nowt so queer as folk.' (There's nothing as strange as people.)

News Credits: 4 · Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:31 pm

SlyTF1 wrote:They are alien. Their alien qualities are constantly being at war.

that's their most human quality.

Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:09 pm

one of my fav early moments in TFA was when Sari whispered something into optimus Prime's when he asked about human children the look on his face was priceless! We all know what she was explaining to him talk about Alien to him!