The Energon Pub

Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:40 pm

Please help me settle an argument,

How is your collection counted, by character/item or by retail unit? this is a pub argument, and I just need opinions of people who know what they are talking about, it also changes whether I have over 700 transformers of just about 300....

Soundwave and Buzzsaw.... 1 or 2?
Minicon team 1 or 3?
Armada transformer/ Power core combiner with minicon 1 or 2?
Do the new spider man toys count, it does say transformers technologie on the side?

Thanks for your help in advance.

Lonrac.

News Credits: 1 · Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:51 pm

Uhm, though call!

I ask the following questions:

Is the character a sentient?

Is it from Cybertron or does it have Cybertronian origins?

Can it function indepentently?

If these questions are all answered 'yes' I count it as one.

Example:

G1 Hardhead.

Is the character a sentient? YES.

Is it from Cybertron or does it have Cybertronian origins? US: (initially) YES (body only after the HM proces). JP: YES.

Can it function indepentently? US: (initially) YES. JP: YES (head only, body is a tool).

Example 2:

G1 Buzzaw.

Is the character a sentient? YES.

Is it from Cybertron or does it have Cybertronian origins? US: YES. JP: YES.

Can it function indepentently? US: YES. JP: YES. (Soundwave is a 'home', they are not physically bonded)

News Credits: 22 · Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:03 pm

Like RhA said, if they can think for themselves, they count as an independent. Personally, combiners, for example, I count as the sum total of the parts and the gestalt. Devastator, for example, to me counts as 7. Regardless whether they're combined or not. Jet Convoy, however, counts as only 2. Prime and Jetfire, even when combined. Mini-Con teams, however, only count as 3, because they combine into a weapon. The exception is Perceptor, who counts as 4. In G1, the cassettes count for 1 each. I guess it's all a matter of personal preference and how you view the characters the toys represent.

Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:02 pm

Count each individual minicon as a seperate transformer. combiners i count individuals devastator is 6 bruticus 5.each cassette is 1 transformer. I count headmasters, target masters, and power masters as 1. except for the fort max mold. i count as two, because cerebros was another transformer.

I guess everyone has their own way of counting.

News Credits: 15 · Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:31 pm

I don't own many combiners, but unless they're disengaged, I count the gestalt as one.

My method of counting packs is by the individual, not by retail unit.

Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:55 am

If it transforms, it counts.

For Gestalts- each character counts as one. The combiner itself does not.

News Credits: 1 · Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:13 pm

SJ21 wrote:If it transforms, it counts.

So that means Action Master Grimlock's scootergunthing is a Transformer?

-edit-

And no Action Master is an actual Transformer.

Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:39 pm

RhA wrote:
SJ21 wrote:If it transforms, it counts.

So that means Action Master Grimlock's scootergunthing is a Transformer?

-edit-

And no Action Master is an actual Transformer.

That was going to be my answer, exactly.

News Credits: 3644 · Mon Nov 07, 2022 5:37 pm

I was going to make a post about this ... thought for sure someone had to ask about this at some point on Seibertron.com's forums. Google'ed it. And lo and behold! lonrac had posted about it just a little over 10 years ago.

I always think it's silly when forum admins have rules that old topics shouldn't be resurrected. Without further ado, I'm going to resurrect this very topic just because I can.

I'd like to see some more thoughts on this. I think I own around 12,000 Transformers. I actually have no idea. I haven't "counted" my collection since around 2005. I've picked up a few Transformers toys since then, as you can imagine. I keep thinking it'd be fun to do a video showcasing my collection since Seibertron LLC is in a 3,000 sq ft office space chock full of more Transformers collector than anyone would know what to do with.

Quick thoughts (I'll post more later once the conversation gets going) ... I'm contemplating whether a Transformers collection should have two counts (maybe). One count for individual figures and one count for individual sets (basically as they're sold, with some exceptions). Here are some examples of what I'm thinking should be my rules:

G1 and Siege Multi-Pack Reflector is 3 Transformers, 1 set.
G1 Constructicons are 6 Transformers (even if you own the giftset because they could be purchased individually), but the set count would vary if they were loose, individually packaged or in the set.
Armada Starscream is 2 Transformers, 1 set.
Mini-Con 3-packs are 3 Transformers, 1 set.
G1 Micromaster 4-packs are 4 Transformers, 1 set.
Headmasters and Targetmasters are 1 Transformer (because you need the smaller Transformer to complete the figure) and 1 set.
Battlemasters are all individual Transformers, regardless of whether they came in a pack.
5-packs of ROTF Legends class toys are 5 Transformers.
Action Masters are 1 Transformer and 1 set.
Netflix Soundwave is 3 Transformers, 1 set.
G1 Soundwave is 2 Transformers (the original was never sold without Buzzsaw), 1 set.
SDCC G1 Soundwave is 5 Transformers, 1 set.

I'll post some more rule ideas later. Share your thoughts and examples please! And if you can think of anything that breaks these rules, share those ideas too!

News Credits: 22 · Tue Nov 08, 2022 2:39 am

Why do you count Armada Starscream and Swindle as 2 separate figures and Targetmasters as a single figure? The Targetmaster and the Mini-Con practically serve the same purpose, to enhance the larger figure. In both cases the larger figure can function without the smaller one and the smaller one has its own consciousness. They're sold in the same package as well.

News Credits: 10 · Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:22 am

I personally don't see much point in counting sets, since as you mention it can vary even for the same toys. There are two counts I can see making sense: Number of toys & Number of characters.

Counting by number of toys, I would consider a headmaster and their partner as one toy (because a head without a body isn't complete, neither is a body without a head), but a targetmaster is two (because a robot without a weapon is complete, and so is a gun without a user).

Similarly, Soundwave plus a cassette are two toys, as are a transformer with a minicon. A combiner such as Devastator would be six toys, not seven. Omega Supreme or Flywheels are each one toy.

The alternative is to count the number of characters. A headmaster and their partner are two characters and the constructicons are now seven characters (the individuals plus Devastator). Omega Supreme is still one character.

Also, multiple toys of the same character are one character. For example, I own four toys of Unicron Trilogy Optimus Prime, but they are all one character. G1 Optimus Prime would be a different character though.

News Credits: 656 · Sun Nov 13, 2022 10:59 am

Counting is tough, but I like the idea of saying something is a set vs a Transformer a lot. I default to however good 'ol shmax.com does it which, under this concept, is in sets. I have 7,392 "sets" based on that, would love to see how it translates out to actual Transformers but wow, what an effort that would be. Whenever a better tool for collection tracking exists, I hope it has some kind of feature like this.

News Credits: 60 · Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:21 pm

I have been thinking about this lately- I am trying to get a handle on the collection and make sure my log is complete. I think I am adding like 3 columns- 1 for Figure Number, 1 for Set Number and another for "add ons" so for example- Metroplex will have 3 lines- 1 for Metroplex, 1 for Scamper and 1 for the head/turret upgrade- Metro and scamper will share a set number- so something like this...

Figure Number Set Notes
Metroplex 1 1 Head and Turret Add On
Metroplex Add on 1A 1 Head Set for Metroplex
Scamper 2 1

I hope this somewhat helps- but I completely agree it makes it difficult to create a number of figures in the collection

Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:15 pm

I agree that combiner components count, but not the combined form since even though it's a different character you'd be counting the same toy twice. I'm also in the boat that says a headmaster counts as one, since a head unit is either a Nebulan (and thus not a Cybertronian) or the actual character, with the transtector not counting. Targetmasters, cassettes/deployers and Minicons count as full transformers because they are separate individuals. Smaller partners for titans count as separate as well (so G1 Metroplex is one TF and Scamper is one TF, but Slammer is not because Slammer does not transform. Kingdom Slammer does count.). I count G1 Sixgun as well because he has a separate robot mode and transforms (as dubious a transformation though it may be) and is thus closer to a Targetmaster.

What I don't count is Legends class toys. This began when I was young and Legends were uniformly small, simple toys. To me, they were too distinct from mainline TFs to be considered compatible. I thought any line like Legends or Fast Action Battlers that was gimmick driven and simplified was a different type of toy from what TFs at Scout class and up were. So even though I have several of them, they aren't part of my tally.
This was challenged once Legends was absorbed into Scout class as Commander class back during Thrilling 30, and I was torn between reflexively dismissing legacy characters like Optimus but recognizing figures like Swerve and Tailgate, since they were following the Scout class tradition. I did not count the Miromaster partners of the Commander class figures because they were more like legends figures/accessries, although today I probably would have included them based on Targetmaster logic.
With Core class reviving this style, my standard is that if it's a smaller character who is in that size for scale (Wheelie or Ravage) it would count, but if it is a simplified version of a larger character (Ratchet or Soundwave) it would not.

Based on this logic the weakest qualifier for counting as a full TF for me would be Legacy Needlenose's Targetmasters. They are separate characters, and small for scale purposes, but they offer less than the Legends class of old and it feels somewhat dishonest to count such simple figurines when I denied that honour to similar and better toys in the past. I did count G1 Spoilsport, though, so there is a basis for me to count unarticulated TMs.

Does anyone else count toys like Legends, FABs, one-steps, etc. as different from mainline Transformers? Or was I just being needlessly discriminatory?