The Energon Pub

[blackeyedprime]

Beefcake Luke looks more like Luke than Siege Springer looks like Springer

[Sentinel_Primal]

So, I think there is something that also needs to be said in terms of good things Siege has done. Instructions! Comparing instructions between WFC and Prime Wars, they actually have somewhat improved instructions for the better in my opinion. I've only struggled to understand one set of instructions from Siege, and that was mostly my own lack of observation, but in PW I had a few moments where I hust said "I'll work it out myself"

[SiegeFan]

Siege has been so successful because, in my view, you finally had widely available/affordable G1 designs from the War. The battle damage whether you liked it or not reinforced that concept, and let's be honest, that same concept falsely sold that Bumblebee trailer to a lot of us lol

You got a mix of Cybertronian modes, repaint Selects for those who wanted them, decent articulation and plastic, mini lines including little combiners and weapons, and a great blast effect gimmick.

And there's just no point complaining about G1 getting rehashed; it hasn't done Hasbro any harm so far, has it? And frankly, some of the people complaining have almost certainly got a shelf full of Primes minimum FFS!

Every toy is someone's first, even if it's just their first Ironworks lol

[adamage1]

I honestly don’t understand the “ugh, G1 design” sentiment I keep seeing.

Can't speak for everyone that uses it, but generally speaking, whenever I use it I'm typically meaning "I wish we'd get new or different designs or characters rather than the same flat nosed truck, tank, and jet." I'd be saying the same thing if we got Beast Wars, Armada, or even Animated updates every year. It mostly stems from there not being much of a break between iterations of a character like Optimus or even Starscream to a degree.

But, unfortunately there's not really a way to fix it. Obviously Hasbro can't give every series they've made the Studio Series treatment where they get their own line, but they also can't give every line it's own year with it going G1, JG1, G2, BW, RID, UT, Animated, Prime/RID 2015, and then back to the start. It'd be way too long a wait to get back to someone's preferred era and thus they'd lose customers. The best they can do is what they're currently doing with making figures of those characters in a line that's mostly focused on one era.

Like I said, I do wish we'd get new designs or better yet, different characters instead of another Optimus, Megatron, or Starscream, but this is the best they can reasonably do. They need to keep general characters that people know one shelves and so that we can get some of the weirdos like Spinister, Apeface, and Punch/Counter-Punch who need their own molds to do the original designs for those characters justice.

Now that Siege (and likely the next two parts of the WFC trilogy) has provided us with a multitude of proper G1 figures, I would be perfectly happy to see a whole new roster of characters once this trilogy wraps up. My main point was that it took over 30 years to finally get these versions—yes, I grew up with G1, which certainly influences my view.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

G1, G2 and UT and other lines had plenty of Optimuses (Optimii?) and Megatrons. Its just starting with the post-Animated era did we see designs get standardized more.

Which was a very deliberate move on Hasbro's part, because they wanted core characters in the mythos to have instantly recognizable, "evergreen" designs, so that no matter what new Transformers series is on the shelves, you can spot the major characters and realize immediately that "this is a Transformers toyline."

Yeah but its boring.

This^^^

Generations. S. As in plural. Not just the one.

They have shown they can get creative (see weaponizers). include more of that. Do what the Studio Series is doing with regards to the 6 movies: spacing them out, not doing them all at once. Do a wave where it has half G1, a few Armada, maybe an RiD guy, and throw in a random Prime figure for fun.

[adamage1]

A long-ish post with valid points that I won't fully repost to save space

Heck, they straight up said we haven't gotten a proper mainline OPTIMUS in 30 years. I can't even count how many Optimus Prime figures one would have to ignore for that to be a factual statement. We got 5 mainline Optimus Primes and an exclusive one from Hasbro alone during the Prime Wars Trilogy, not even counting Takara stuff like Ginrai.

As in a proper representation of the G1 model of Optimus Prime in scale, which is 100% accurate. PotP was a kind of half-attempt, but was out-of-scale as a leader and utilized a gimmick of “shell armor” to create the silhouette, and not very well. Siege was the first real G1 model-based figure, in proper scale, with no gimmicks to create the final figure. Yes, it has a bit of kibble due to the “Cybertronian” style, but that’s understandable. In fact, Siege seems to be the first mainline offering that actually cares about scale between the figures, save for Jetfire who I would say is a bit too large (he is essentially on par with combiners).

[Microbot]

Earthrise still has plenty of time to 'redeem' itself with some interesting designs or obscure characters. I'm just worried those hope will be dashed if it turns out Ironworks is like the only one.

If Ironworks of all things is a thing in this line then I wouldn't be worried, Siege had plenty of obscure characters.

People focus way more on the negative aspects while not paying as much attention to the positive stuff.

Also the Micromasters and the Shield guy?

...okay, see, that right there is why you don't get that complaint: the thing that people who say that (which include me on certain days) are complaining about is exactly the thing you want, from what it sounds like. Multiple of these characters have received updates in those 30 years you mentioned, some of them multiple times, but I guess figures like T30 Springer, who's amazing, don't count as a "proper" Springer because he isn't a blocky lumpman 100% G1 accurate with nothing new?

Then again, I didn't grow up with G1, so I guess it's difficult for me to understand your point of view too. From my POV though, people who want just G1 updates get what they want right now and they STILL complain (who cares what color Earthrise Prime's HANDS are?!), while those who want more than JUST G1 S1-2 again or maybe don't even like G1 get thrown a bone with maybe....2-5% of what gets put out in Generations?

I don't think you understand either.

How is this




Faithful to this?




Thrilling 30 Springer is a fantastic Springer but it's not "the" original G1 design at all, that is the IDW comic design which is quite different.




Now this? This is a way more faithful version




You can make the same argument for characters like Jetfire, Ironhide/Ratchet, Omega Supreeme, Shockwave etc

They didn't have proper toys based on their original beloved G1 designs which tend to be the versions many people like, that's why there are complaints about Earthrise Prime's hands being not blue, blue hands is the proper color of the character and most people are not painters so it's a disappointment to them.

Basically the idea is that people want toys in the exact or close to designs of the characters that they love, it's like if people got a Star Wars Luke Skywalker action figure but it did not look like Luke at all.

AMEN!

[Nathaniel Prime]

It's hard for a person like me to exist, because it's practically impossible to get a middle ground in things like this. I am a person who loves all of Transformers. So when things like this come up, I struggle to make a choice!

G1 Springer is great! And the Siege figure is awesome! But IDW Springer is also great! And the T30 figure is awesome!

If I could, I would get them all. If it looks cool and plays cool, I'm all for it. That's what I strive for in a toy. I dont care how accurate it is to the source, or what the altmode looks like, or whatever. Just gimme a cool, posable dude or dudette, and I'll be happy.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

It's hard for a person like me to exist, because it's practically impossible to get a middle ground in things like this. I am a person who loves all of Transformers. So when things like this come up, I struggle to make a choice!

G1 Springer is great! And the Siege figure is awesome! But IDW Springer is also great! And the T30 figure is awesome!

If I could, I would get them all. If it looks cool and plays cool, I'm all for it. That's what I strive for in a toy. I dont care how accurate it is to the source, or what the altmode looks like, or whatever. Just gimme a cool, posable dude or dudette, and I'll be happy.

Just have both if you want both! It's why I'm ok with so many movie Primes and Bees and such: many of them are doing very different things and looking very different.

I did not get Siege Springer because I have no connection to him, but I love T30 Springer cause that is my Springer. If I did care for G1 Springer, I would have gotten him and enjoyed both. there isn't really a "definitive" in my collection

[Nathaniel Prime]

It's hard for a person like me to exist, because it's practically impossible to get a middle ground in things like this. I am a person who loves all of Transformers. So when things like this come up, I struggle to make a choice!

G1 Springer is great! And the Siege figure is awesome! But IDW Springer is also great! And the T30 figure is awesome!

If I could, I would get them all. If it looks cool and plays cool, I'm all for it. That's what I strive for in a toy. I dont care how accurate it is to the source, or what the altmode looks like, or whatever. Just gimme a cool, posable dude or dudette, and I'll be happy.

Just have both if you want both! It's why I'm ok with so many movie Primes and Bees and such: many of them are doing very different things and looking very different.

I did not get Siege Springer because I have no connection to him, but I love T30 Springer cause that is my Springer. If I did care for G1 Springer, I would have gotten him and enjoyed both. there isn't really a "definitive" in my collection

Precisely my thoughts. I have little connection to characters beyond what they look like and what I've seen from the media. Beyond the '86 movie, I know next to nothing about Springer. I just like his look, and both the G1 design and IDW design look great to me, and both scream "Springer". I dont think I would have a definitive collection either. There's just too much greatness to decide on just one. That's why I've got multiple Primes

[Jelze Bunnycat]

It's hard for a person like me to exist, because it's practically impossible to get a middle ground in things like this. I am a person who loves all of Transformers. So when things like this come up, I struggle to make a choice!

G1 Springer is great! And the Siege figure is awesome! But IDW Springer is also great! And the T30 figure is awesome!

If I could, I would get them all. If it looks cool and plays cool, I'm all for it. That's what I strive for in a toy. I dont care how accurate it is to the source, or what the altmode looks like, or whatever. Just gimme a cool, posable dude or dudette, and I'll be happy.

T30 Springer has been redecoed as Cloud Hot Rodimus so while more expensive and harder to get, it'll take the edge of "but I already have a main version of that character!" if you just want the mold. Or just get Sandstorm and hope he won't get a remake

[Deadput]

As for the Springer argument, I know that T30 Springer is based off the IDW design, I never said it wasn't. And I'm glad it is, because it's a better design/better version of the G1 design and it made Siege Springer an easy pass. The original argument was that Springer, among others, had not received a "proper" mainline figure in 30 years, despite T30 Springer very much being a mainline figure of the character Springer

I understand that based on the actual character only then Springer did indeed has had toys over the years.

The thing is though, it was not "The G1" Springer, just a general Springer figure that resembles the base character traits of Springer.

When people mean "proper" like that person said, sure he might of misspoke but they most likely mean the original character (or most well known version of them), for Springer it would be the original design.

Now whether said design is better or worse then say the IDW version is not important here, I think the IDW version is Springer's best design but it's still not the original.

And out of his toys since his original G1 figure which one of these does the best job of replicating him?









This is just one character example, for Optimus Prime...sure he might of had a lot of figures to the point we are drowning in him but he's the main mascot of the franchise and people got upset when Hasbro killed him off back in the day so he will always be around now thanks to the reception back then.

For modern standard Generation figures the Optimus Prime ones have been mostly good Prime toys but still not enough for some people to scratch their itches for a good Optimus toy that does the original design justice, and arguably they have only done this concept well recently with the POTP/Siege/Earthrise/Bumblebee figures from the last few years, all the others have been their own Optimus Prime designs incorporating their own concepts.

[Skritz]

Btw, notice how you guys never hear me complain about guys like Springer. There is a reason for that.

[bacem]

I am probably one of those that is on middle ground, where i just collect whichever looks cool in my taste, regardless if they are g1 or other characters. It just so happens that in a lot of case, a very g1 style is not cool in my taste, which is why i do not have a lot of interest in MP (my wallet are grateful for that). In the case of springer, T30 version is still my favorite. I bought and played with siege springer, but in the end i sold it as it felt "too g1" for me. Same case with siege megs. That being said tho, siege is still a wonderful toyline that satisfy me a lot. I dig optimus, ironhide and hound that while based on g1, also defiate enough to make them look different. I appreciate characters like jetfire that homage both his cartoon and toy look, or the weaponizer guys, that can become upgrade kit for other figures. They also bring on some of the few g1 design that i like, like skythread and impactor. I also appreciate how they mix a bit of non g1 character like galaxy optimus, hot shot, abd barricade, even if they are just repaints. So overall, while i am not on hardcore g1 team, siege is still a big win to me.

[william-james88]

I am probably one of those that is on middle ground, where i just collect whichever looks cool in my taste, regardless if they are g1 or other characters.

That's how I am and always have been. I will admit I have a soft spot for beast wars so if they release a particular character in a line I will be inclined to check that out. But usually a cool toy is just that, a cool toy, and I want in.

Now regarding Siege, I got a lot of new stuff and I would like to talk about it.

I got the fan vote 3 pack and I absolutely love both the Mirage mold and Impactor. I like the transformation on both of them and with Mirage, I like it so much that I might pick up the non transluscent one to better appreciate the result you get from the transformation since the various details and intricacies don't really come out as well on this clear blue version. And Impactor is a dead ringer for cyberdefense Scattershot (or Dropshot).

Astrotrain is fine. I have almost no issues with the main robot component. The front of the shuttle bothers me more than the back which doesn't look as gappy in hand. The contrast between how straight and blocky the front s compared to the more narrow and sculpted/details back half is very jarring though. My big issue is I don't feel the tender gives us much. With Shockwave, the extra stuff made a huge different in alt mode and for Magnus (and Prime), the extra stuff gave them their actual looks. But with Astrotrain, the only place where the extra stuff makes a difference, to me, is in alt mode and even then it doesn't add as much as it does with the other leaders. That tender doesn't look great and it even looks upside down with the treads and wheels on the top (it would look upside down either way). So my issue here is more that I dont care for the big accessory here and it doesn't add as much as the previous extras for the leader class. So, in this particular case, I would have much preffered him simply being released as a voyager.

Apeface is not fun. The white is as bad as it looked in the worst images and the modes are as bad or worse than what I expected. I really really hate this kind of construction where crucial aspects of stability of the jet and beast mode rest on thin panels (like we saw in T30 Blitzwing). I really thought we were done with these types of plastics and designs. He just feels and looks cheap, which is odd since no other toy in the siege line is like this to me. Also, what's the trick with tabbing in the jet cockpit? Feels like fitting a square peg in a round hole.


EDIT: Once again, I forget that chromia is in the siege line, can't speak for her since I did not pick her up.

[blackeyedprime]

sad to hear on Apeface, I'm waiting on Snapdragon before deciding if I want him (otherwise it will be G1 or KFC for the duo if and when some cash falls out of a tree).

[Sentinel_Primal]

Also, what's the trick with tabbing in the jet cockpit?

What do you mean? I haven't heard of any trick being needed of the cockpit, only the beast mode neck. If you're having that much difficulty, it may be possible that you got a figure with bad QC. Though, considering how many reviewers have said Apeface isn't good, it's much more likely that I'm just blind to his faults because of how much I like his design and gimmicks the same way I ignore T30 Doubledealer's faults (never got Blitzwing, didn't like how small the faces looked)

[Nathaniel Prime]

Also, what's the trick with tabbing in the jet cockpit?

What do you mean? I haven't heard of any trick being needed of the cockpit, only the beast mode neck. If you're having that much difficulty, it may be possible that you got a figure with bad QC. Though, considering how many reviewers have said Apeface isn't good, it's much more likely that I'm just blind to his faults because of how much I like his design and gimmicks the same way I ignore T30 Doubledealer's faults (never got Blitzwing, didn't like how small the faces looked)

There's a special tab on the shield/tail wing piece of Siege Apeface that tabs into a special slot on the back of jet mode. This way, you don't have to use the 5mm port and potentially break it. I don't know for sure if that's true, since my source is a bunch of buddies on Discord.

Edit: Oops, I didn't read the "cockpit" part

[aronjlove]

Apeface is not fun. The white is as bad as it looked in the worst images and the modes are as bad or worse than what I expected. I really really hate this kind of construction where crucial aspects of stability of the jet and beast mode rest on thin panels (like we saw in T30 Blitzwing). I really thought we were done with these types of plastics and designs. He just feels and looks cheap, which is odd since no other toy in the siege line is like this to me. Also, what's the trick with tabbing in the jet cockpit? Feels like fitting a square peg in a round hole.

I am both amazingly pleased and sadly disappointed in Apeface. The beastmode Ape is freaking awesome! The robot mode, while originally seeming awesome, has lost some of its shine. The lack of articulation to other figures in the Siege line, especially the lack of waist swivel, make this figure not as "cool". Still glad I got him though. Someone else pointed out that it feels like Apeface was a leftover Titans Return figure that they slapped some paint effects on and called it Siege.

[william-james88]

Apeface is not fun. The white is as bad as it looked in the worst images and the modes are as bad or worse than what I expected. I really really hate this kind of construction where crucial aspects of stability of the jet and beast mode rest on thin panels (like we saw in T30 Blitzwing). I really thought we were done with these types of plastics and designs. He just feels and looks cheap, which is odd since no other toy in the siege line is like this to me. Also, what's the trick with tabbing in the jet cockpit? Feels like fitting a square peg in a round hole.

I am both amazingly pleased and sadly disappointed in Apeface. The beastmode Ape is freaking awesome! The robot mode, while originally seeming awesome, has lost some of its shine. The lack of articulation to other figures in the Siege line, especially the lack of waist swivel, make this figure not as "cool". Still glad I got him though. Someone else pointed out that it feels like Apeface was a leftover Titans Return figure that they slapped some paint effects on and called it Siege.

He feels more like a leftover T30 figure to me.

[Cobotron]

Can I sit in that chair next to you?

I don't usually like to go negative on toys. They're just toys. But, I couldn't agree more with your statement. What a heaping underwhelming pile of disappointment. The majority of figures in this line have raised the bar on mainline mass retail TFs, but Apeface is 10 steps back.

I'm convinced he is a hold out concept from Titans Return, that they just dug back up to fill space. I had plenty of fun with TR, don't get me wrong, but advancements have been made even in the short time between lines, and it feels weird to put Apeface in league with 80% of the Siege toys.

I will continue to at least try to find some redeeming qualities in his robot mode, but first I have to digest my disappointment.

[Sabrblade]

And people in the Hall of Fame thread were upset over Siege Apeface's absence from the poll.

[Wolfman Jake]

Someone else pointed out that it feels like Apeface was a leftover Titans Return figure that they slapped some paint effects on and called it Siege.

Maybe one day, we'll know the truth. Every once in a while, we get a nice little nugget of behind-the-scenes information on Transformers development years after the fact. It could be that Apeface (and Snapdragon) were originally planned for Titans Return, but were shelved for some reason, just like the Titan Masters for Optimus Primal and Toraizer. Maybe if we had gotten Voyager Class Apeface and Snapdragon then, their repaints would have been the rumored Optimus Primal and Beast Wars Megatron we heard about. Perhaps they would have been in the other two 5-piece box sets for Intelligence and Firepower that were "canceled," along with the still unreleased outside of Japan Apex Bomber.

[william-james88]

And people in the Hall of Fame thread were upset over Siege Apeface's absence from the poll.

Wasnt related to the toy though, no one thinks its amazing. The annoyance was more a tongue in cheek statement that hasbro was avoiding any beast type bots at all cost.

And cobo, you can always sit right by me!

[aronjlove]

Someone else pointed out that it feels like Apeface was a leftover Titans Return figure that they slapped some paint effects on and called it Siege.

Maybe one day, we'll know the truth. Every once in a while, we get a nice little nugget of behind-the-scenes information on Transformers development years after the fact. It could be that Apeface (and Snapdragon) were originally planned for Titans Return, but were shelved for some reason, just like the Titan Masters for Optimus Primal and Toraizer. Maybe if we had gotten Voyager Class Apeface and Snapdragon then, their repaints would have been the rumored Optimus Primal and Beast Wars Megatron we heard about. Perhaps they would have been in the other two 5-piece box sets for Intelligence and Firepower that were "canceled," along with the still unreleased outside of Japan Apex Bomber.

That's the juicy stuff that brought me to this site in the first place.