The Energon Pub

First off I know next to nothing about cars except they have four wheels and move.

I read that the alternators couldn't include my favourite Porsche Boxter, nor would the classics line have BB as a VW Beetle, because their respective companies objected to being represented as war machines.

I'm wondering if anyone can explain to me where this is coming from. Is this a stance taken by all German companies, or is it part of German culture itself? I seem to recall a similar statement made when Bay was queried why he couldn't have a Porsche as Jazz.

Also, I never did buy G1 BB and Cliffjumper, but I understand that many toys now use the same mould, just painted differently for both. However was CJ exactly like BB in the G1 cartoons? I remember reading somewhere that while BB was a VW Beetle, CJ was actually a Porsche 924. Does the Porsche 924 look anything like a VW Beetle?

You are correct.

The companies did not want their "image" associated with weapons. Hasbro said, what if we loose the guns, they still said no. Politics and culture go hand in hand.

BB: is a Volks
CJ: is a Porche but stunted.
Hubcap: is a mix between both as well as BumbleJumper/Cliffbee/Sedan. I'm sure that they have "real" cars that they are molded off of, but if you stunt them and make the shell fit, the rest of the toys are the same.

You can look at my sig, but you may not be able to tell the differences between them.



*EDIT*

Lookee here:
http://www.seibertron.com/toys/fullsize.php?id=1080&size=1&image=18
Clockwise from Left:
Hubcap
Bumblejumper/Cliffbee/Sedan
Bumblebee
Cliffjumper(Yellow)

In an effort to remain as politically correct as possible, Volkswagen didn't like the idea of one of their cars being used as a 'war machine', which is why Hasbro was refused the right to use the beetle model. BB and Cliffjumper were nearly identical in the cartoons, except that Cliffjumper had a spoiler and a slightly different head mold. For the Classics line, Cliffjumper is a straight repaint, which struck many fans the wrong way.

ConDrewfus wrote:
You can look at my sig, but you may not be able to tell the differences between them.

You're right I can't. But then I know next to nothing about car makes. You seem to know a lot about them though, so I ask, how does a Porsche 924 look like? I scanned the web, and saw a few, and they look nothing like BB VW, but did the G1 CJ use the same mould, and still list his alt as a Porsche 924? The pics I saw on the web showed a much sleeker vehicle.

Do you know the term, "Chibi"?

It's when Anime characters are all cuted out and become SuperDeformerd.

Now, picture a beautifull Porche 944, or 924 (whatever CJ is) and "Chibi" it's car mode.

Bingo, you got the CJ toy.

The thing starts during WW2, as Hitler let MR Porsche design a car, this car was then named der Volkswagen Käfer.
The idea was to make a car which everybody could afored, that's were the name Volkswagen came from, and yes the VW Käfer is the VW betel.
Since both componeys made war machines for the Nazi's, which is understandable, they don't want to be associated with War ever again.
Becos if a American, or any other person makes a killing machine it's cool and correct, but if a German does something similar he gets called a Nazi.

Dead Metal wrote:The thing starts during WW2, as Hitler let MR Porsche design a car, this car was then named der Volkswagen Käfer...<cut>...Becos if a American, or any other person makes a killing machine it's cool and correct, but if a German does something similar he gets called a Nazi.

Wow thanks! Fascinating bit of political trivia there; had no idea at all what this was about. Thanks!

ConDrewfus wrote:Do you know the term, "Chibi"?

Errr... are you Chinese? Because that word "Chibi" as you spell it, depending how it is pronounced, and then respelt, is one of the most vulgar profanities you can curse in the Hokien dialect. So I don't know, maybe to those who feel very strongly about the deformation, both versions of the word would be deliver the same sentiment.

You may be correct. I thought "Chibi" was a real term, but I may be incorrect.

However, if the Chinese call it Sh!t, then I agree, I hate SuperDeformed stuff.

Bonecrusher27 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:The thing starts during WW2, as Hitler let MR Porsche design a car, this car was then named der Volkswagen Käfer...<cut>...Becos if a American, or any other person makes a killing machine it's cool and correct, but if a German does something similar he gets called a Nazi.

Wow thanks! Fascinating bit of political trivia there; had no idea at all what this was about. Thanks!

You askt and I answered, thanks for mocking me, so this is how I react to it:

Do the same as he does:

Dead Metal wrote:

Bonecrusher27 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:The thing starts during WW2, as Hitler let MR Porsche design a car, this car was then named der Volkswagen Käfer...<cut>...Becos if a American, or any other person makes a killing machine it's cool and correct, but if a German does something similar he gets called a Nazi.

Wow thanks! Fascinating bit of political trivia there; had no idea at all what this was about. Thanks!

You askt and I answered, thanks for mocking me, so this is how I react to it:

Do the same as he does:

Uuhh, I don't think it was mockery.

This is mockery...ahem...Thanx for the info, duh, we know that Hitler was political and all tha jazz, why don't you tell me something new, like why they won't do that now. I mean, we haven't had a World War in like, uh, sixty years, yeah, uh huh.



*EDIT*
If it was not mockery, then please disregard my atempt at poor mockery and B.I.H!

ConDrewfus wrote::))

You may be correct. I thought "Chibi" was a real term, but I may be incorrect.

"Chibi" (ちび) is a real word in Japanese (whence it stems from), meaning something like dwarf, small boy and so on. Usually signifies something small and cute.

Dead Metal wrote:

Bonecrusher27 wrote:Wow thanks! Fascinating bit of political trivia there; had no idea at all what this was about. Thanks!

You askt and I answered, thanks for mocking me, so this is how I react to it:

Mockery??? How can you perceive a simple thank you note to be mockery? You gave me facts that I didn't know, I found it fascinating, I thanked you, and I get this reaction?

Dead Metal wrote:The thing starts during WW2, as Hitler let MR Porsche design a car, this car was then named der Volkswagen Käfer.

Hitler not only commissioned the VW Beetle, he apparently drew up the initial design in 1933:



Personally I would think that being associated with a Transformer as innocuous as Bumblebee would be a trivial matter in light of this reality.

hitler design the beetle?

i learn something new today

So THAT's who started the 'all your base' trend!

Just to continue the history lesson...[ascends the soapbox]

Please know that in no way am I defending Hitler, the Nazi ideology, or war in general. I'm just stating historical facts.

Just about all of the German car companies were started or had work commissioned by Hitler in the mid-late 1930's. This was part of his very effective attempt to rebuild the nation's economy, which was devastated by a combination of the Great Depression, and to a great extent the payment of reparations (aka war fines) to Britain and France for losing WWI.

Hitler also commissioned tanks, guns, military aircraft, etc and broke the conditions of the Treaty of Versailles which officially ended WWI (on 11/11/18 - hence the genesis of Veteran's Day, which was originally called "Armistice Day").

All of these public works projects gave people jobs, which in turn gave them money. The affordable products that were produced were then consumed by the very folks who made them. The effort strengthened the economy and was hailed as a triumph by the rest of the world - to the point where Time magazine named Hitler man of the year in 1938. There was a lot of sympathy for Germany at the time b/c most nations felt that they were treated with excessive harshness after WWI.

Then Hitler showed his true colors - as one of, if not the, most evil human to ever walk this earth. Unfortunately, the sympathy card allowed him to build a top notch army and air force which he then unleashed on Europe.

Thus concludes the history lesson....[descends the soapbox]

wildscorpio67 wrote:Just to continue the history lesson...[ascends the soapbox]

Please know that in no way am I defending Hitler, the Nazi ideology, or war in general. I'm just stating historical facts.

Just about all of the German car companies were started or had work commissioned by Hitler in the mid-late 1930's. This was part of his very effective attempt to rebuild the nation's economy, which was devastated by a combination of the Great Depression, and to a great extent the payment of reparations (aka war fines) to Britain and France for losing WWI.

Hitler also commissioned tanks, guns, military aircraft, etc and broke the conditions of the Treaty of Versailles which officially ended WWI (on 11/11/18 - hence the genesis of Veteran's Day, which was originally called "Armistice Day").

All of these public works projects gave people jobs, which in turn gave them money. The affordable products that were produced were then consumed by the very folks who made them. The effort strengthened the economy and was hailed as a triumph by the rest of the world - to the point where Time magazine named Hitler man of the year in 1938. There was a lot of sympathy for Germany at the time b/c most nations felt that they were treated with excessive harshness after WWI.

Then Hitler showed his true colors - as one of, if not the, most evil human to ever walk this earth. Unfortunately, the sympathy card allowed him to build a top notch army and air force which he then unleashed on Europe.

Thus concludes the history lesson....[descends the soapbox]

QFT.

Many ppl blow off the significance of WWI on WWII. I'm glad to see a fellow historian mention that.

wildscorpio67 wrote:Just to continue the history lesson...[ascends the soapbox]

<CUT> ..[descends the soapbox]

Haha, dramatic!

All these posts really highlight just how little I know about history, and how it's really a fascinating topic, not just about memorising dates to regurgitate during the exam. There's a lot more depth to the usual blanket coverage you skim through when discussing WWII, or any other major political happening for that matter.

I just wish I had the time to learn it now that I don't have to do it to pass exams and can just read for general knowledge.

At the very least, I can add one more benefit to my rekindled interest in Transformers!

Bonecrusher27 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:

Bonecrusher27 wrote:Wow thanks! Fascinating bit of political trivia there; had no idea at all what this was about. Thanks!

You askt and I answered, thanks for mocking me, so this is how I react to it:

Mockery??? How can you perceive a simple thank you note to be mockery? You gave me facts that I didn't know, I found it fascinating, I thanked you, and I get this reaction?

Oh sorry, I must have misread it than.
I'm sorry I thought you were taking the piss, cos I read:
Wow thanks! Fascinating bit of political trivia there; and I have no idea at all what this was about. Thanks!

I underlined the change, that's what I read, I must have been tired and angry and so I have miss read it.
I offer you my deepest apologies.
Hope you can forgive me.

Dead Metal wrote:

Oh sorry, I must have misread it than.

No worries mate, these things happen easily on a medium without face to face communication and all the nuances you get in real conversation. Lots could be misread!

But I did mean my thanks. I'll say again I'm an absolute ignoramus when it comes to cars and history. I found especially fascinating the part about Hitler being involved in MR Porsche designing der Volkswagen Käfer. Good info!

Bonecrusher27 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:

Oh sorry, I must have misread it than.

No worries mate, these things happen easily on a medium without face to face communication and all the nuances you get in real conversation. Lots could be misread!

But I did mean my thanks. I'll say again I'm an absolute ignoramus when it comes to cars and history. I found especially fascinating the part about Hitler being involved in MR Porsche designing der Volkswagen Käfer. Good info!

Ahh, good.
We're still friends.

Bonecrusher27 wrote:

wildscorpio67 wrote:Just to continue the history lesson...[ascends the soapbox]

<CUT> ..[descends the soapbox]

Haha, dramatic!

All these posts really highlight just how little I know about history, and how it's really a fascinating topic, not just about memorising dates to regurgitate during the exam. There's a lot more depth to the usual blanket coverage you skim through when discussing WWII, or any other major political happening for that matter.

I just wish I had the time to learn it now that I don't have to do it to pass exams and can just read for general knowledge.

At the very least, I can add one more benefit to my rekindled interest in Transformers!

I was a history minor in college. Not b/c it was going to be useful in my career (I went to school to be a computer programmer) but b/c it always interested me. I'm a nerd, what can I say?

Anyway, I had to memorize only a small handful of dates. Cause and effect was emphasized far more. For example (without getting into nauseating detail), the Crusades indirectly caused the Reformation.

You can trace events from 1096 when the Crusades started to the 1500s when Luther nailed his 95 theses to the church door in Wittenberg.

Now we're WAY off topic and I'll shut up now. Thanks for "listening".