The Energon Pub

Because they're poor and lack reasons to 'not die' for a cause.

Let's hook them up with McDonalds, affordable cars, candy, starter homes, and white collar jobs. They will have to be beaten the same way the Russians were, with money and the power of economy.

General Magnus wrote:Do they realize who they are dealing with? I mean the west has fought two bloddy world wars and showed that it can be a brutal and ruthless power block. We have military, and technicological power over them. Do they ingore what happen in WWI, WWII and Vietnam? Because those wars are a perfect examples of what the west can do wen put up agaisnt a wall.

They see the West as pure evil, which is understandable in a way...because there value are completetly opposite to the Western Value.

Because they are jealous little bitches? Who knows.

General Magnus wrote:Do they realize who they are dealing with? I mean the west has fought two bloddy world wars and showed that it can be a brutal and ruthless power block. We have military, and technicological power over them. Do they ingore what happen in WWI, WWII and Vietnam? Because those wars are a perfect examples of what the west can do wen put up agaisnt a wall.

however when God is on your side those things are as nothing. rationality and sanity aren't part of a faith based philosophy.

While I think the original post in this topic is poorly written (sounds like the historical aspects are based on movies) and sounds like a "Don't mess with Texas" bumper sticker, I am intrigued to why Muslims are such a violent religion. The problem I have is that while peole say that these people are just the extremists, how come the "regular' Muslims don't protest the extremists; they seem to except the violence and actually promote it? Then when they are the targets of what they consider "racism" they make excuses and say that you can't judge them by extremists...well maybe if they started demonstrating against violence (especially in other countries), they wouldn't feel so singled out. But then again, maybe I'm just barking up the wrong tree with a culture where a woman is executed for being a whore if she is raped.

Oh and another reason:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/11/fortdi ... index.html

GetterDragun wrote:While I think the original post in this topic is poorly written (sounds like the historical aspects are based on movies) and sounds like a "Don't mess with Texas" bumper sticker, I am intrigued to why Muslims are such a violent religion. The problem I have is that while peole say that these people are just the extremists, how come the "regular' Muslims don't protest the extremists; they seem to except the violence and actually promote it? Then when they are the targets of what they consider "racism" they make excuses and say that you can't judge them by extremists...well maybe if they started demonstrating against violence (especially in other countries), they wouldn't feel so singled out. But then again, maybe I'm just barking up the wrong tree with a culture where a woman is executed for being a whore if she is raped.

Oh and another reason:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/11/fortdi ... index.html

You don't hear about it because no one really cares to hear about it. It's around, and it happens, especially with Muslim youth setting up awareness weeks, seminars, etc. Truth be told, and whether you want to believe me or not, but the actual word "Islam" describes 'peace', or an invitation for peace. Why don't we start up angry protests? Wouldn't that be just facilitating the whole "Muslims are just an angry bunch"? It takes one person to do something stupid, or say something terrible because something or someone drove them to that end, and suddenly it reflects on the whole culture. It seems that the general mass has accepted this extremist quality of Muslims, and despite efforts to challenge this notion, it's hard to fight it without becoming the very thing that we want to denounce.

I tried to stay away from this topic because the whole thing pisses me off, but this needed to be said. Sadly enough everything comes full circle that Muslims are enraged activists, in one perspective or another. I could tell you that it is actually a very peaceful culture for the millions other of non extremists out there, and fighting really isn't in their teachings. Chances are you won't believe me.

now that's arrogant, to call our culture more mature, when we have our own religous fanatics who blow up abortion clinics, and of course the whole northern Ireland conflict that only this week has actually had a politcial step forward, sure the catholic and protestant communities re still divided by brick and barbed wire "peace" walls, but at least their not blowing each other up anymore.

on the other hand we have the the very peaceful protests in turkey, a secular country with a very large muslim population, all of which manage not to blow up in the recent religio-political affair of abdullal Gul.

the persistance of this "us and them" way of thinking is detrimental to society. life is not a number of disceet pigeon holes in which you can convientely place people, but a large smear across a spectrum of everthing.

Why do they want a war with The West? Well, it probably has something to do with The West being (at least in part) responsible for a LOT of their problems. You can only lose so many friends, family members, and limbs to Western guns and so many children to poverty supported by Western sanctions before you start thinking that stuff needs to change. Then there's the whole Israel thing. You know that thing where The West felt so bad about (letting Hitler get away with) The Holocaust that they gave the Jews the most sacred piece of Muslim land...and enough guns, bombs, tanks, and atomic know-how to defend it.

Who do you know that wouldn't be ready to go to war with the powers who caused me to live in such terrible circumstances?

As for "knowing who they are dealing with," I assume that you mean The United States. This would be the same country that hasn't won a decisive victory in war for over 50 years despite spending billions of dollars every year on the military. The only thing that the United States knows how to do in war is bomb the hell out of people (mostly civillians, it seems), leave an unbelievably large (and expensive) mess, completely decimate the economy, and leave when the people living in the country FINALLY get wise to what an utter travesty it has become.

Maybe they fear the superior intelligence of the United States. I know I would be absolutely terrified of a country that, after terrorist attacks, go to war and kill 600,000 people in a country that had nothing to do with said attacks.

Maybe they want a war with The West because they know they can win. Nothing, short of the extermination of damn near everyone in the middle east, could win the "war" for The West. The war would be ongoing. It would probably stop only after a few WESTERN cities lay in ruins, most likely as the result of some manner of atomic weapon. And perhaps, after reflecting on it for 60 years, the general consensus would be detonating an atomic bomb in a US city was necessary to end the war.

They wouldn't want a war with The West if The West didn't have their guns pointed at them every minute of every day.

Professor Smooth wrote:Why do they want a war with The West? Well, it probably has something to do with The West being (at least in part) responsible for a LOT of their problems. You can only lose so many friends, family members, and limbs to Western guns and so many children to poverty supported by Western sanctions before you start thinking that stuff needs to change. Then there's the whole Israel thing. You know that thing where The West felt so bad about (letting Hitler get away with) The Holocaust that they gave the Jews the most sacred piece of Muslim land...and enough guns, bombs, tanks, and atomic know-how to defend it.

Who do you know that wouldn't be ready to go to war with the powers who caused me to live in such terrible circumstances?

As for "knowing who they are dealing with," I assume that you mean The United States. This would be the same country that hasn't won a decisive victory in war for over 50 years despite spending billions of dollars every year on the military. The only thing that the United States knows how to do in war is bomb the hell out of people (mostly civillians, it seems), leave an unbelievably large (and expensive) mess, completely decimate the economy, and leave when the people living in the country FINALLY get wise to what an utter travesty it has become.

Maybe they fear the superior intelligence of the United States. I know I would be absolutely terrified of a country that, after terrorist attacks, go to war and kill 600,000 people in a country that had nothing to do with said attacks.

Maybe they want a war with The West because they know they can win. Nothing, short of the extermination of damn near everyone in the middle east, could win the "war" for The West. The war would be ongoing. It would probably stop only after a few WESTERN cities lay in ruins, most likely as the result of some manner of atomic weapon. And perhaps, after reflecting on it for 60 years, the general consensus would be detonating an atomic bomb in a US city was necessary to end the war.

They wouldn't want a war with The West if The West didn't have their guns pointed at them every minute of every day.

You realize that most weapon manufatcers are western and we have the most nukes, do you? And if they ever try to nuke a western city, well retaliation would be devastating and would reslut in alot of arab nation nuked. We have city to loose, they have entire nation to loose, think about that They can´t win, the only problem here is that they don´t realize that.

Hot Rod- I want you to look at this clip. VERY carefully. This is but an example of the problems in the Muslim world, last summer with the war with Israel. Maybe you can expand your education a little bit while we're on the subject. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=249JaIaubVw
You bring up all sorts of occasions where Muslims have done terrible things, and you blame it on the way that they must have been raised and so on, but you're missing the most basic idea of WHY the wars and acts even started. Professor Smooth is RIGHT in bringing up HISTORY, and Tammuz is RIGHT in pointing out the arrogance in your statement. Take some time and learn the facts before you pass judgmental comments like "their culture is not as modern as ours" and "people doing the attacks themselves".

As for the culture, if your mind is already set on what you have posted, then I guess what I have said in my other post doesn't mean a thing. Are you saying that my culture teaches me to hate Israel and the West? It PAINS me to see that this is what people honestly of us. Where are all the "sane" Muslims? They're in your neighborhood! They're in your country, on every continent, and exist in the millions. You're looking at the few, destructive extremists, and the survivors of war torn countries and calling them the overall reflection on the whole Muslim culture. How can you possibly say that there are only a few "sane" Muslims in the world by only looking at the most desperate of types?


Magnus- The life lesson I am learning from you is that if I exist in a life of oppression, I should do nothing and continue to live this way. The fact is when people are oppressed, they stand up what what they think is right. I'm not just talking about Muslims, I'm talking about any single individual who has been part of a mass demonstration, who in some way express their beliefs and oppose what their government (or another government) is doing. Oppression itself has a vast context. Whatever the case, there are those who are willing to stand up for what they believe in.