The Energon Pub

These are stats from DK's Transformers Ultimate Guide updated edition If anyone cares to look at them:

Gen 1

Opti:
Intell:10
Endurance:10
Speed:8
Skill:10
Strength:10
Courage:10
Rank:10
Firepower:8

Megs:
Intell:10
Endurance:8
Speed:4
Skill:9
Strength:10
Courage:9
Rank:10
Firepower:10

srry, the only stats I have for any of the comics is Powermaster Prime:

Intell:10
Endurance:10
Speed:6
Skill:10
Strength:10
Courage:10
Rank:10
Firepower:9

Beast Wars (technically they are different bots but just in case people wanted to know)

Optimus Primal
Intell:10
Endurance:10
Speed:10
Skill:10
Strength:10
Courage:10
Rank:10
Firepower:10

Megatron:
Intell:9
Endurance:10
Speed:10
Skill:10
Strength:10
Courage:10
Rank:10
Firepower:10

Beast Machines (ditto on the different people thing)

Optimus Primal:
Intell:10
Endurance:10
Speed:10
Skill:10
Strength:10
Courage:10
Rank:10
Firepower:10

Megatron:
Intell:9.9
Endurance:9.9
Speed:9.9
Skill:10
Strength:9.9
Courage:10
Rank:10
Firepower:10

Transformers: Armada

Opti
Intell:10
Endurance:10
Speed:10
Skill:10
Strength:10
Courage:10
Rank:10
Firepower:10

Megs:
Intell:10
Endurance:10
Speed:10
Skill:10
Strength:10
Courage:10
Rank:10
Firepower:10

Transformers Energon is The same as the above.


Of course, stats aren't set in stone, Megatron is better when innocents are in danger, and Optimus Prime is better when Megatron is unable to exploit that weakness or when Prime is just ticked off (which doesn't happen that often.)

ZeroZero wrote:Didn't Optimus hold his own against all the Dinobots in some G1 episode? Could Megatron ever do that? Of course not.

Actually, Prime got his ass handed to him by the Dinobots, through a combination of reluctance on Prime's part and sheer tag-team Dinobot whupass. The Cartoon Dinobots may be dumb, but they break things real good.

As to the real question, Megatron is the more powerful and skilled. He's a warrior-born. He conquered Cybertron. He has more firepower, he's literally built for it. Optimus wins as much as he does because he is wiser and more patient. And he knows his opponent well enough to play to Megatron's few weaknesses. Also, unlike Megatron, Optimus is willing to accept the loss of his own life to defeat his enemy.

But since the question is about fighting who has more combat skill and power, Megs clearly comes out on top.

Tasbirk wrote:But since the question is about fighting who has more combat skill and power, Megs clearly comes out on top.

I'm interested in what makes you say this. If you're referring to the G1 cartoon versions, could you list some episodes that support this view? I recall very few, if any, episodes that show Megatron being Prime's physical superior.

This is really too hard a topic to discuss just because there's so many variables that people can draw into it. Which continuity are we talking about? Do we include such intangibles as Prime's "Heroic will to fight" or Megatron's ability to utilize innocent bystanders to press his advantage? Too many variables make it really tough to nail down a solid answer.

However, I'd back up Megatron as the better technical fighter based off pure fighting prowess. In the G1 Cartoon, he's programmed from the beginning to be a military robot. In both Marvel and Dreamwave's comics, he rose from to power fighting in the Decepticon gladiatorial arenas. The Decepticons are built and bred for fighting, and as their commander, Megatron could be assumed to be the best of them. By the time Optimus becomes Prime in most of those continuities, Megatron has already been living a life of pure combat for years. Megatron simply would out experience Optimus Prime in most any case.

This doesn't mean that Megs will mean all the time. Doesn't mean that Prime doesn't have the will/drive/desire to win. It just means that Megs has the most time clocked in a pure combat role. Sadly, old dogs sometimes lose the ability to see outside their experience, and this might very well be the reason that Prime wins more often.

Should be noted, though, that you see Megatron kill a Prime far more often that you see the reverse...

MagnusPrimal wrote:

Tasbirk wrote:But since the question is about fighting who has more combat skill and power, Megs clearly comes out on top.

I'm interested in what makes you say this. If you're referring to the G1 cartoon versions, could you list some episodes that support this view? I recall very few, if any, episodes that show Megatron being Prime's physical superior.

You do raise an excellent point. I'm afraid that all I can truly offer in defense of my statement is this- Both the cartoon and comic book G1 universes portrayed Megatron as an incredibly powerful and ruthless dictator. One that, as I said before, had lead the oft-divisive Decepticons to conquer Cybertron. And yet, it seems as on as soon as he sets foot on earth he cannot even keep a few energon cubes away from the Autobots.

To be perfectly honest, I feel a certain amount of Prime's victories (especially in the cartoon) must be chocked up to a simple conceit of the story: He wins because he is the hero. Even then I would say that many of the Autobot victories we do see owe more to Prime's leadership than his prowess.

But I still believe to fully answer the question of who is the better fighter we must consider the visible result of all of the battles we don not see: The Autobots were nearly extinct, having lost almost all of Cybertron to Megatron's Decepticons.

The simple fact that we clearly and repeatedly see that only through skill and power does Megatron maintain his position tells me that those unseen victories cannot be credited solely to the might of his army.

To sum up, I suppose I would say that Megatron rules through power, and is the more powerful of the two. Optimus guides by wisdom, and is the superior leader.

Thank you for your comment, MagnusPrimal. You really made me think!

No problem!
I think the Autobots were nearly extinct because overall the Decepticons are much better fighters than the Autobots. But in the show, it seemed to me that Prime was superior to Megatron. The movie backed this up, as Prime had Megatron beaten. If Prime had just blasted Megatron when he was down, before Hotrod rushed him, it was over. Even after being mortally wounded, Prime landed a blow on Megatron that finished trashing him, and quite possibly would have lead to Megatron's death.
If you think about it, Prime being at least Megatron's physical equal makes sense, considering that Alpha Trion probably built him that way. And, as much as I hate the idea, the Matrix may have boosted his strength as well, as well as giving him the experience of past Autobot leaders to call on.
Also, the Decepticons may have appeared to lose the battles in the cartoon, but look closer. Sure, they always retreated, but they always had a lot of energon cubes as well. So many, in fact, that they had conquered Cybertron by 2005, only 20 years in the future, which isn't that long to a race with the lifespans of the TFs. Just because they retreated, it didn't mean they'd lost.
The comics are different. At least in the UK ones, Megatron himself believed a Prime going full-out would beat him. In the Dreamwave and IDW continuities, I don't know. In Dreamwave, Megatron had more actual experience, but Prime was boosted by the Matrix, so it's hard to tell who had the advantage there. We don't know Prime's past in IDW, and we're just learning some of Megatron's.

MagnusPrimal wrote:No problem!
I think the Autobots were nearly extinct because overall the Decepticons are much better fighters than the Autobots. But in the show, it seemed to me that Prime was superior to Megatron. The movie backed this up, as Prime had Megatron beaten. If Prime had just blasted Megatron when he was down, before Hotrod rushed him, it was over. Even after being mortally wounded, Prime landed a blow on Megatron that finished trashing him, and quite possibly would have lead to Megatron's death.
If you think about it, Prime being at least Megatron's physical equal makes sense, considering that Alpha Trion probably built him that way. And, as much as I hate the idea, the Matrix may have boosted his strength as well, as well as giving him the experience of past Autobot leaders to call on.
Also, the Decepticons may have appeared to lose the battles in the cartoon, but look closer. Sure, they always retreated, but they always had a lot of energon cubes as well. So many, in fact, that they had conquered Cybertron by 2005, only 20 years in the future, which isn't that long to a race with the lifespans of the TFs. Just because they retreated, it didn't mean they'd lost.
The comics are different. At least in the UK ones, Megatron himself believed a Prime going full-out would beat him. In the Dreamwave and IDW continuities, I don't know. In Dreamwave, Megatron had more actual experience, but Prime was boosted by the Matrix, so it's hard to tell who had the advantage there. We don't know Prime's past in IDW, and we're just learning some of Megatron's.

*Momentarily dumbstruck at having found myself in an internet debate that is both well though out and civil*

Well said. Good point about the Marvel UK comics. I remember that. All of the differing versions do make this a difficult question to hammer out, but perhaps that's what makes it one of the most interesting questions in the TF universe.

It is an anomaly, isn't it?
Well, there's little question in the Armadaverse who's better, imo. Megatron all the way. Prime has to combine with something or someone to stand up to him at all. So Megatron gets some props there, at least!
Also, in Marvel G2 comics, didn't Megatron tear right through Prime?

Totally agreed on Unicron Trilogy Megatron. He was one of the high points of those shows. He was *gasp* a credible threat!

I think you're right about Megatron in the G2 comics, but it's been at least 12 years since I've seen my G2 issues, so I can't quite put my finger on when it happened.

Megatron is a better fighter beacuse his made for destruction.

i have always felt that in the first few eps of the series megatron seemed to always have the advantage but once fire in the mtn came bout the tide starting to turn for optimusprime in how he dealt w megatron and the rest of the decepticons
im refering to the g1 toons of course

So, the next question would be, how about Optimus Primal and BW Megatron? The majority of this discussion has dealt with the G1 characters, what about their Beast Wars namesakes?k

I personally find it much harder to make a call on that one. Both Primal and Megatron seem to be hardened combatants, so experience might not be as big an issue. I'd almost have to choose Primal, myself, just because as the series goes on he realizes just how desperate his struggle really is, giving him stronger motivation to win. 'Course... same could be said of Megatron...

Thenedain wrote:So, the next question would be, how about Optimus Primal and BW Megatron? The majority of this discussion has dealt with the G1 characters, what about their Beast Wars namesakes?k

I personally find it much harder to make a call on that one. Both Primal and Megatron seem to be hardened combatants, so experience might not be as big an issue. I'd almost have to choose Primal, myself, just because as the series goes on he realizes just how desperate his struggle really is, giving him stronger motivation to win. 'Course... same could be said of Megatron...

I think, first season of BW, Primal wins. Second season, I'm not sure, the Transmetal bodies. Third season, Optimal Optimus until Megatron gets his dragon alt. mode, then he seems more powerful. Of course, we only saw him in action when he still had the spark from G1 Megatron, so it's hard to say.

Optimus Prime

I think prime is the better fighter but megatron is more powerful and prime seems to suffer from a.d.d.

ZeroZero wrote:Didn't Optimus hold his own against all the Dinobots in some G1 episode? Could Megatron ever do that? Of course not.

Well that would depend on what continuality you are talking about in the cartoons it seems the Dinobots as a unit would have the clear advantage over Megatron however in the comics Megatron was clearly the superior and far more powerfull combatant and has been known to take out all the Dinobots at once. Of course Shockwave in the comics has also managed the same thing.

At points in time during war within, idw, g2, beastwars 2nd 1/2 of season 3, and beast machines megs seems to be a better fighter. In war within and i think idw, megs was a gladiator (u prob have to be a good fighter to get the support that he gets), and in g2 megas had a new and improved body. In some cases and maybe most of the time megs is prob a better fighter than op, however op wins because some kind of intervention or out wits megatron

it depend on the situration

IF Prime was 2 walk in alley and Megs was there........Prime will be rip 2 pieces. But....If Prime was 2 walk in a alley and see Megs beating the carbon brakes off of Bumblebee or Jazz then Megs body will be on the 6 o clock news.


In energron and cybertron......Prime always preach 2 Megs/Galvtron that since he always fight 4 himself while Prime fight 4 others that Meg/Galvtron will always lose at the end


I aslo think the Matrix Prime got aslo pay a big roll. Just as Rodiumus in the Movie when he needed strength

I will say it this way... please hear me out.

If the Decepticons were not in a cartoon situation, which has been dumbed douwn to have evil bumble and do stupid things to make it funny, I feel the decepticons would have been a more dangerous force.

Admittedly so are the autobots, who in essense are defending their home land. Defenders can be incredibly powerful against the worst of odds. Rorkes Drift which had 150, mostly wounded or injured (It was a hospital) british soldiers against 4000 zulu warriors.

Megatron, and I draw my basis mostly from Generation One, so please forgive me, is a made warrior. He was designed from the outset as a robot of war. Wether this is because he was made as "military hardware" or if he was designed by the construticons or whatever creation plothole you accept. Megatron is made and programmed for war. In reality a lot of Military Commanders can become absorbed in their greatnesss and start to flounder over time.

Optimus Prime, again I draw this from Generation one and all its plotholes, was also a made warrior. However he was made and programmed to fight and at the same time protect and try to maintain peace. He was made after Megatron injured/killed Orion Pax. He may privately doubt himself and worry over decisions that he makes and hesitate at a critical moment.

Megatron and Optimus Prime are characters of roughly equal strenth and equal skills. They both have things that would be considered flaws. However, I feel Megatron would be the "stronger" commander and likely win a battle because he, unlike Prime, would do anything to win a situation. Moral and immoral.

However, in the end...only time will tell how a battle will go. A cruel commander may or may not win and a peaceful commander may or may not win. Good does not always triumpth and evil...is not always bad.