The Energon Pub

Tramp wrote:

Damolisher wrote:The only reason you're backing out is because I'm giving more logical reasoning to why Robots wouldn't grow than you are for why they would. OK, clearly, you don't understand what METAL is. Because you keep likening healing technology to human hormones, you liken metal to skin, and you liken computer circuits to bones and organs. Why would Transformers grow when they don't have to? They're machines. They're not organic creatures. Only organic creatures grow. Transformers don't go through puberty. There is no childhood. There's no sudden metallic hairs in places there were none before. There are no robo-STDs. There is no Transformers high school. They are simply advanced machinery that can Transform, and think and feel. That's all there is to it, and that's what we're told. I for one, am happy with that.

There is nothing in Transformers canon which mentions growing of new computer chips. They don't come out of nowhere, they don't develop, and the nanomachinery is simply an anti-virus. That's all, Tramp. Stop trying to alter the meaning of things to suit your crazy bastardised human-ifying of Transformers. And as for that crack about creators, yes, they humanise Transformers in ways that are actually possible, like personalities.

It's not camparing healing technology to human hormones. It's comparing the nanomachine regenerative circuitry to organic cells. A self-replicating nanomachine is analogous to an organic cell. Their base components are simply different. Organic cells are carbon based, self-replicating nanomachines are silicon and metal based. Both contain a genetic code, both self-replicate, thus facilitiating healing and homeostasis in the larger organism. Secondly, the regenerative systems in a Transformer are not an "anti-virus" system. Anti-virus systems in a computer don't heal physical damage. They kill viruses that screw-up software causing computer crashes. The regenerative systems of a Transformer heal physical damage. They do this by self-replication to fill in the damaged areas and close off the wounds. This is exactly how organic tissue heals as well. Thus, there is a direct correlation between them—there is a direct parallel and comparison. The function is identical. Thus, the regenerative systems of a Transformer should conceivably facilitate growth from childhood to adulthood in those born from parents.

They don't HAVE a GODDAMNED childhood! What the hell is wrong with you?

I defiantley agree solid foods are only needed in limited qualities. because it is really only needed to supply raw material for the regenerative systems. The matter has to come from somewhere.

As for the cogs and such, yes, there are tolerances, but by the same token, the regenerative systems do regenerate those parts as well. If a joint os damaged, the regenerative systems heal that joint. If a rotator is damaged, the nanomachines that make-up that rotator replicate and repair the damage. Thus, there is already "tissue" growth, and yet these parts still manage to maintain their tolerances. This should therefor be true while a child TF grows. The nanites which make up their systems would logically be genetically hardwired to maintain the necessary tolerances.

Tramp, are you blind or just delibrately ignorant? I've said it about 4 or 5 times in this topic:


CHEETOR STATES IN BEAST MACHINES THAT ALL TRANSFORMERS NEED FOR SUSTAINANCE IS ENERGON! And there is no tissue growth in machines. Stop claiming Transformers have organic-like internal organs. All your retarded theories consist of is throwing a mechanical sounding term in place of a human part. That's all. You're implying Transformers are exactly like humans, only metal. and you're not even allowing for things such as the scientific properties of metal.

Damolisher, I heard you the first time. Let it go. There is already proof within canon that Transformers consume things other than just Energon. All energon does is supply energy. Where does the matter come from for their regenerative systems to heal damaged parts? Where does the lubricants and hydraulic fluids their internal systems require come from? They can't come from Energon. Thus, Transformers would have to consume other substances besides just Energon, though not all the time. Energon is their energy supply. That is all it is.

Secondly, You say Transformers don't have childhoods? tell that to the creators of Wheelie and the writers of the Victory mangas, and to the writers of TFtM. It is those people who gave TFs children in children's bodies. Therefore, yes, there are Transformer children, and these children would need to be capable of growing up physically. They can't remain in child form forever.

Ok, you're now officially just going out of your way to piss me off. As I told you before, Wheelie is PROGRAMMED as a *****ing child. The Dinoforce DO NOT EXIST OVER HERE! THEY ARE CANON IN JAPAN ONLY! (We have th Monster Pretenders.) And there's plenty of courses in canon which tell everyone Transformers don't make babies, but you reckon they do, and other things contradict that. Cheetor POINTBLANK STATES THEY CONSUME NOTHING BUT ENERGON! Christ, stop arguing with me when I know what I'm bloody talking about. You're just ignoring everything I say and trying to argue with hard-based facts in order to antagonise the piss outta me, and it's working.

Primal to Rhinox: Eat some, it won't be much but it will build up your energon level.

Cheetor to Trantulus: I only have Mech fluid.
Trantulus: Ah but I can convert it. (Or something like that)

Primal is shown eating a bannana.
Dinobot ate his own clone.
Terrorsaur ate a eagle.
Trantulus nearly ate a dear.
Rhinox eats the wild beans.

Armada they apparently have a compactor to make energon out of food.

Which season did Cheetor say that anyway? IF it was season one a lot of that was changed on by season two and three.

Damolisher wrote:Ok, you're now officially just going out of your way to piss me off. As I told you before, Wheelie is PROGRAMMED as a *****ing child. The Dinoforce DO NOT EXIST OVER HERE! THEY ARE CANON IN JAPAN ONLY! (We have th Monster Pretenders.) And there's plenty of courses in canon which tell everyone Transformers don't make babies, but you reckon they do, and other things contradict that. Cheetor POINTBLANK STATES THEY CONSUME NOTHING BUT ENERGON! Christ, stop arguing with me when I know what I'm bloody talking about. You're just ignoring everything I say and trying to argue with hard-based facts in order to antagonise the piss outta me, and it's working.

No, I simply disagree with you. Secondly, we are not just talking abut the US series anyway. All of it is canon—US and Japanese. There is nothing in canon that completely eliminates the possiblity of TFs making babies. On top of that TFs are not "programmed" like a computer is. This too is canon. They learn and develop their personalities naturally. Wheelie acts like a child because he is a child. He looks like a child because he is a child. He is referred to as a child and treated as a child in multiple sources. Physically, and mentally, he is a child. The Lithonian children are children. The Dino Force's children are children. These are all canon evidence of Transformer children—not minibots, not minispies—children. And as Night Sriker kindly printed out, there are numerous examples even in Beast Wars of TFs consuming things other than Energon. On top of that, TF:MtMtE #8 specifically states that Enrgon is the primary fuel source for transformers, not its only fuel source. It is not their only food, just their primary one.

Nano-tech can do more than repair, not just in the Transformers universe, but in real life. One proposed use of nano-bots is construction, making something from nothing. Also, you could quite easily write a program for them so they could combine the blue prints (DNA) and personality of two (or more) bots since the nano-bots would already HAVE the blueprints. Theoretically, you could even base this off of the mechanisms organic life use to replicate.
I still say the nano-bots would mass outside the body and convert the materials at hand to form a physically mature body, no “egg”, no “fetus”.

(edit) the self repair system would require raw materials, so Transformers would have to eat metal, oil, etc. on occasion in order to repair. Also, organics could possibly be converted into energy in the form of oil or ethanol.

What you're describing there in your last sentence, is protoforms, which is the most well known method of creating a new Transformer. Even then, they need a containment vessel and nutrient gel in which to develop. For a Transformer born from the union of two parents, they would need to grow from a smaller being into an adult, and we have such smaller children in canon both US and Japanese. They obviously can't remain children forever. Therefore, there must be some internal mechanism to allow them to grow into adulthood. Their nanomachine-based regenerative systems seems to be the most logical solution.

It is possible that a Transformer only needs the nutriant fluid in order to stay a protoform for extended periods of time, not just to form.

Whiner-tron wrote:It is possible that a Transformer only needs the nutriant fluid in order to stay a protoform for extended periods of time, not just to form.

The nutrient gel is what sustains the nanomachines which makes up the protoform until it is imbued with a spark and completes its reformatting. It isn't until it has been formatted into a complete Transformer that it can exit the stasis pod. This is clearly stated in canon. For a naturally born TF child, obviously, since it too is growing from the same type of nanomachines, the developing fetus would need to grow within a protective environment surrounded by a nutrient fliud such as within the mother or in an egg pod, until it has fully developed and formatted into a Transformer child. Only then could it survive in the outside world. Personally, I would lean more towards internal develoment within the mother over an egg., except perhaps in the cases of Transformer species who's primary forms are avian, reptilian, or fish. Humanoid or other "mammilian" type Transformer offspring, I would say would definatley develop within the mother rather than in an "egg" pod.

they build each other?

tom brokaw wrote:they build each other?

Who are you asking?

tom brokaw wrote:they build each other?

We don't know, that's what we're debating
(in creepy zombie voice) join usssss

Whiner-tron wrote:

tom brokaw wrote:they build each other?

We don't know, that's what we're debating
(in creepy zombie voice) join usssss

OOOh. I'm trembling...

The concept of "growing" for robots, is not physical. But rather mental.

Auto Bot wrote:The concept of "growing" for robots, is not physical. But rather mental.

In the case of Transformers, I would also say physical growth as well, especially in the cases of actual chilren like Wheelie and the Dino Force's children. Figuring out the mechanics of that growth is what's really up for debate though.

I like the idea that they 'grow up' by gaining permanantly attatched armor as they gain sentience, ot 'grow up'.

Eradicator wrote:I like the idea that they 'grow up' by gaining permanantly attatched armor as they gain sentience, ot 'grow up'.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Transformers are sentient from the moment they're born, whether from protoforms or from parents. Can you elaborate?

Tramp, reading your posts, you are beginning to freak me out with the whole egg pod, nozel, and that stuff. (perverted, much?)

Lets agree that METAL cannot grow.
ROBOTS are not gonna start humping each other. No way.

Can I give you my theory on the reproduction? Well too bad, cuz I am.

Ok, so you have a female and a male robot. you put them together. Their SPARKS mingle together, forming a seperate spark (but the 'parent's' sparks still remain). Ten, the sark is taken to a protoform. The protoform is uploaded the genetic code of the 'parents'. The spark is then placed in it. It wakes up after scanning an object. After a SHORT time of the robot gaining sentience and understand the history and whatnot of Cybertron, it is given armor. The more aromor, the taller. Thus 'growing up.'

So is this a good theory or not??

Plus, as for the human esque 'sex' emotions (Blackarachnia kissing Silverbolt), you have to remember that the Transformers have learned our cultre. Maybe it just means a sign of love, not anything sexual, get the point?

The only "growing up" i've seen among the Transformers, was Hot Rod literally growing up into Rodimus Prime!

But there's a catch.

The bot should be holding a Matrix!

Well, I disagree on both accounts. The first issue is that what we're looking at is creation of new Transformers without the use of protoforms at all, as indicated as possible in MtMtE#8. So, just having sparks mingling and placing the "new spark" into a protoform isn't the same thing. On top of that, a spark can't exist outside the body. Sparks aren't placed in a body, they form within them. The only time we see a spark separate from the body and not returning to Primus, is when they are held in a containment vessel within a stasis chamber along with the protoform. Thus, how would the sparks "mingle" to begin with? If the male and female are physically linking up, through some form of ports, that is the same thing as I've described, and it makes more sense to use nanomachines to create the new life. They don't have to "hump" as you so colorfully put it. It's just interfacing a plug into a socket. Prime actually does this to save Elita-1 in The Search for Alpha Trion.

Secondly, through the use of nanomachine-based regenerative systems, metal could very well "grow" through the nanomachines replicating and adding mass to the crystaline structure of the metal. Think about it, their entire crystaline structure is made of these self-replicating nanomachines. Every part of their body is composed of them. This is what allows them to heal, and what they start out as in "protoform" state—a masss of nanomachines in a nutrient gel. Therefore, wouldn't it also make sense for these nanomachines to facilitate physical growth provided they consume the right raw materials? Think about it, What is growth? It's the increase in size and substance through the addition of mass facilitated by the assimilation of nutrients, and replication of the 'Cells"(in this case, nanomachines) within the organism. If all you're doing is tacking on more and more armor, all that will do is make him bulky and eventually immobile, because the underlying limbs haven't lengthened to accomidate the added mass and facilitate greater range of motion. In order for the body and limbs to become larger and longer, they need to grow from within. This can be done through nanomachines. Thus, by conuming raw metals, silicon, and other substances,which are then broken down by their internal systems and supplied to the nanomachine "regenerative circuitry" which makes up their bodies, The nanites utilize these raw materials to replicate and thus increase the overall size and substance of the Transformer, thus allowing him or her to grow, maintain homeostasis, and repair internal and external damage.

As for kissing and other displays of romantic emotion, (ala Black Arachnia/Silverbolt, et.all), Transformers were doing that even before meeting Humans. In the G1 cartoons, before they became Optimus Prime and Elita-1, Orion Pax and his girlfriend Ariel were showing those exact same types of shows of affection. They were engaging in the same types of romantic activities, and they did not have any contact with Humans. Modern Humans didn't even exist yet. On top of that, when both Black arachnia and Silverbolt were "born" from their stasis pods, Humans did not exist at all. They were still pre-human hominids. Once again, their behavior is not something they learned watching Humans. It was perfectly natural behavior for them, not behavior copied from another race. Therefore, it isn't something they learned from watching Humans. Also remember that these activities have only a single purpose, and that is choosing a mate with whom to have offspring. That is inherently why males and females of any species engages in these activities.

It's a good start to your theory, but there are bugs that would need to be worked out.

Auto Bot wrote:The only "growing up" i've seen among the Transformers, was Hot Rod literally growing up into Rodimus Prime!

But there's a catch.

The bot should be holding a Matrix!

Not entirely true. We do see Transformer children, and Lithonian children all at various stages of growth, even if we don't see them individually growing before our eyes.

Tramp wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:The only "growing up" i've seen among the Transformers, was Hot Rod literally growing up into Rodimus Prime!

But there's a catch.

The bot should be holding a Matrix!

Not entirely true. We do see Transformer children, and Lithonian children all at various stages of growth, even if we don't see them individually growing before our eyes.

Correct. Orion Pax is one example.

Eradicator wrote:Tramp, reading your posts, you are beginning to freak me out with the whole egg pod, nozel, and that stuff. (perverted, much?)

Lets agree that METAL cannot grow.
ROBOTS are not gonna start humping each other. No way.

Can I give you my theory on the reproduction? Well too bad, cuz I am.

Ok, so you have a female and a male robot. you put them together. Their SPARKS mingle together, forming a seperate spark (but the 'parent's' sparks still remain). Ten, the sark is taken to a protoform. The protoform is uploaded the genetic code of the 'parents'. The spark is then placed in it. It wakes up after scanning an object. After a SHORT time of the robot gaining sentience and understand the history and whatnot of Cybertron, it is given armor. The more aromor, the taller. Thus 'growing up.'

So is this a good theory or not??

Plus, as for the human esque 'sex' emotions (Blackarachnia kissing Silverbolt), you have to remember that the Transformers have learned our cultre. Maybe it just means a sign of love, not anything sexual, get the point?

HEY! THAT'S MY THEORIE! I WAS ABOUT TO POST THAT! ah well, great minds think alike