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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:It is always a fine line in Transformers. You can have witty/one liner humour (Rattrap) dark humour (BW Rampage) or, unfortunately all too often, comic relief. Your Silverbolt/Waspinator types.

I'd use Siege examples over Beast Wars. Except I watched it through twice and struggle to remember any comedic moments or characters.

I love how the use of situational comedy in Beast Wars. Like when Scorponok kept saying he was next in line to command but when the time came for him to actually command he had no clue how to do it.

What a great show.

Exactly. That's what I was referring to earlier. That is the other way you can lighten the tone. While towards the end Beast Wars leaned a bit too heavy on "crushed by rock" silly slapstick humour. There is a broad spectrum of comedy, beyond just jokes.

william-james88 wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:It is always a fine line in Transformers. You can have witty/one liner humour (Rattrap) dark humour (BW Rampage) or, unfortunately all too often, comic relief. Your Silverbolt/Waspinator types.

I'd use Siege examples over Beast Wars. Except I watched it through twice and struggle to remember any comedic moments or characters.

I love how the use of situational comedy in Beast Wars. Like when Scorponok kept saying he was next in line to command but when the time came for him to actually command he had no clue how to do it.

What a great show.

I started watching Beast Wars again yesterday, I'm about halfway through season 1. I still think it's the best TV series in Transformers history, followed by Prime, and I have a faint hope that Kingdom ends up being a sort of prequel for it. Or even if it officially won't be, maybe the events play out so that it could be thought of as such. When they showed Dinobot (or was it just a velociraptor?) at the end of ER I could have sworn I was looking at the character from Beast Wars season 1.

I agree, Beast Wars is the best Transformers show ever. I've watched the episodes a zillion times and have never gotten sick of it.

Regarding Siege/Earthrise, it is awful. Thankfully the toys are much much better than the actual shows. But if I was a kid right now watching this, these shows wouldn't be inspiring me to bug my parents to buy the toys.

The voice acting and line delivery is absolutely horrible. The lone bright spot for me is Starscream's voice, which at least sounds close to Chris Latta's. Prime's voice is the worst, especially as someone else already said, when he's yelling.

6 episodes per season is a very low number, and the story suffers because of it. They're really missing out on the opportunity to flesh out more characters. There is also over the top use of Refraktor/Seeker/Impactor/Cog generics to fill out the ranks instead of having more characters that have toys in the line in the show.

Love the toys. Dislike the shows.

o.supreme wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:To get back on track, I'm going to vent for just a second.

It is frustrating how every time we get an "adult-aimed" Transformers cartoon it's something made by people who are convinced that adults only want to watch something miserable and depressing, devoid of any and all joy, charm, or charisma.

Yesterday I was watching this for the 2nd time with my son, and while Humor is not the dominant trait of this TF series, it certainly wasn't devoid of humor.

I didn't say anything about humor.

The writers of Beast Wars are some of the best no doubt, but I'm sure there are plenty of threads to go give praise that BW rightly deserves. All I can say is I can derive some level of entertainment from almost any TF series, Armada, Cyberverse, and Prime Wars being the Exceptions.

o.supreme wrote:The writers of Beast Wars are some of the best no doubt, but I'm sure there are plenty of threads to go give praise that BW rightly deserves. All I can say is I can derive some level of entertainment from almost any TF series, Armada, Cyberverse, and Prime Wars being the Exceptions.

Give the Japanese version of Armada a chance. It's better written, better acted, and makes worlds more sense than the English version. Karyuudo Fansubs subbed it.

I'm sure it is. Similarly Car Robots is actually my preferred way to watch that show, although the RiD version is not awful itself.

Also some fans might prefer to watch the Netflix show in Japanese. The voice acting seems to be better, and they have the original Japanese actor Voicing Optimus Prime to boot.

"I'm always Alert" is definitely a top 10 joke in this franchise, clearly enough of a joke but is also somewhat subtle as well where they don't slap you in the face with it.

Like that was a genuinely great joke overall.

Sad part about any "jokes" is, the only thing that has made me laugh or even chuckle so far in the 2 parts release is Wheeljack calling Bee a "pain in my ass". That's the only thing that gave me an emotional response.

Oh and Cog. Cog to WFC is the Megatron from Prime Wars: the one good thing in an underwhelming experience.

Not to be too contrarian or anything but I'm actually enjoying WFC so far.

The visuals are wonderful, for one thing. But I would say my favorite aspect by far is the way the writers keep putting the heroes in more and more dire situations in every episode until right up to the very end of the show. I just think that makes it a fun show. It's also pretty awesome how often the two factions had to work together in Earthrise.

I like the fact that the creators are taking most of the well-known characters in different directions, most of them exact opposites of what you'd be expecting of them. It lets the show stand on it's own and not just be another "Force Awakens" not-exactly-but-basically-remake.

The acting IS stale most of the time in Siege (less so in ER I thought), and another main gripe of mine is that so many of the characters actually sound the same...Alpha Trion had the most distinct voice. I mean I kept thinking Sky Lynx and Megatron sounded embarrassingly the same and then I looked it up and realized they had two different voice actors. Sorry everyone...I don't NEED Cullen to voice OP for it to be a good TF show (I'm fine with the guy they have now actually, shoot me), but I was looking for more character overall out of the voice acting and we really aren't getting much of that in the show just yet. I won't get my hopes *too* too high for Kingdom in that regard...

I thought Earthrise was a real blast though, and I really can't wait to see Kingdom. This show isn't a masterpiece but I think overall it's a very enjoyable ride.

just_aCloud wrote:Not to be too contrarian or anything but I'm actually enjoying WFC so far.

You are not contrarian. Believe me, like most TF series, opinions are split. There are few that are universally hated (except perhaps the Machinima Prime Wars), or universally beloved (Beast Wars). I have enjoyed Siege/ER as well, and this is definitely the place to express your opinions about what you liked, disliked, etc...As long as personal attacks are kept out, it's all good. Personally, there are multiple series in recent years I've not enjoyed, but I spoke my grievances early and moved on, no need to fill those threads with negativity. I would hope that other fans would pay this thread the same respect, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Still haven't seen the Machinima series. I've heard of Cyberverse and Rescue Bots, but Prime was the last series I actually physically watched before tapping out of TF series altogether. Even then, it was only the first couple of episodes.
Siege could have been more with an extended episode count. Too many faces crammed into essentially a mini-series. Cameos for the sake of flogging the toy/fan service. Bits that didn't make any sense, because there was no time for context to be given.
The most egregious for me, was Megatron's reaction to Skywarp's demise. Skywarp had barely a handful of lines. No characterisation or even personal interaction with anyone. He was just another colour variant in a legion of cannon fodder seekers. Yet Megatron was impacted by his death in particular, because..?

That's why I don't think trying to sell a large cast within the format of a trilogy of consecutive mini-series has done WFC justice.

I know all opinions are different, but as someone who is very much a fan of the original series, TF Prime has to be one of the Best (as different as it is from anything that has come before or since), and is most definitely the best of the last decade, nothing else even comes close. I've rewatched it, and the Predacons Rising Film probably at least once per calendar year since it went off the air; whereas I still have my RiD15 S1 DVD in the shrink wrap, and have zero intentions of watching Prime Wars or Cyberverse ever again.

Rescue Bots was great for my son when he was little. I've not watched RB Academy so I can't speak to whether it is as well written/acted or not. Unfortunately S!F only released random RB single dvd's for the longest time, never a set. I'd purchase it for completion sake, but most likely not ever watch it unless we had friends with young kids come visit. My son could guide them into TF's just as I did for him .

It was the humans. My take on Transformers was always skewed. The Movie was my jump on point. Which had two humans and at the time, I thought that is all there was. Then Beast Wars came along and had none. Even better. By the time it finished, I was old enough to see that isn't the standard for the series. Going through the later UT, Animated and Prime series.

Their prominence is a deterrent to me. The titular characters are what I want. Besides other alien races, I don't want anything else. Always loved robots and sci-fi since I was very young.
Partly the reason the over the years, I have tried to go back and watch the pre-Movie seasons of Sunbow and just can't do it.

One thing that really sucks on that level is that Prime Wars and now WFC have both basically been "no humans whatsoever, just your bots!" and both have set a bad precedent, it's like they want to advertise the toyline but can't figure out how to make the cast and story work properly. WFC has a large toyline, yet most of the onscreen characters are generics using the same couple templates. Heck, what, only maybe 4 ER toys showed up in ER, and that was because the 2 large size classes needed advertised, Doubledealer worked with repaints as mercenaries (the reuse of molds without new heads is a sore spot for me personally), and the Quints showed up. And even with so few characters, its like they can't nail down those characters enough to make them particular good or memorable.

Cog, Impactor, Ratchet (to an extent), and Sky Lynx are about the sum of the characters I care for or feel like I know. I only remember Magnus because he was and still is incredibly disrespected in universe, and that desecration sticks with me because of the cruelty, not because I was vested in this Magnus.

Cyberverse proved that a Transformers show can be set on Earth in the present day without any human characters.

Sabrblade wrote:Cyberverse proved that a Transformers show can be set on Earth in the present day without any human characters.

Also this^

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:It was the humans. My take on Transformers was always skewed. The Movie was my jump on point. Which had two humans and at the time, I thought that is all there was. Then Beast Wars came along and had none. Even better. By the time it finished, I was old enough to see that isn't the standard for the series. Going through the later UT, Animated and Prime series.

Their prominence is a deterrent to me. The titular characters are what I want. Besides other alien races, I don't want anything else. Always loved robots and sci-fi since I was very young.
Partly the reason the over the years, I have tried to go back and watch the pre-Movie seasons of Sunbow and just can't do it.

It's not human vs no humans, it's good writing vs bad writing. Rescue Bots, Prime and the BB film had humans and didn't suffer for it. While Prime Wars had no humans and sucked hard.

I mean Cyberverse may as well had no humans at all because it was hardly an Earth story and a good chunk of the show didn't even have Earth.

And this is only if you consider Cyberverse to be a good show in the first place, it's a pretty divisive show amongst the fanbase. (As for me I consider the show ok, might be longer and have better voice acting then WFC but I still feel it's overall a pretty half baked show with only season 3 being something I consider great.)

There's no point in these being Transformers stories without the human and disguise elements, like I miss a proper good human companion like Spike, Carly or Chip. (Or Sari and Fowler if you want more modern examples)

They might as well never transform and just use vehicles since transportation is all their used for (or in the case of jets/tanks shooting at others in cases hardly any different then somebody piloting them.)

A bad show is going to be a bad show regardless of there being humans or not.

Sabrblade wrote:Cyberverse proved that a Transformers show can be set on Earth in the present day without any human characters.

G1 and Animated proved that you could have them as well and still have a good show.

Ya know, one other thing I forgot about until now that was not delivered but was promised: fan vote characters and their stories.

Impactor v. Mirage, and how Mirage turned Impactor into a bot. "you'll see in the WFC stores!" Yet if anything RATCHET was the one who helped Impactor see the error of his ways, Mirage only had some supplementary commentary and thoughts, he wasn't the direct contributor.

Same with Runamuck, he was supposed to stow away on the Ark right? That would have had Megatron find out they were still alive and gone after them without the need of the Mercenaries and Deeseeus, and could have presented them as an outside threat. But the "fan vote character" didn't even appear.

Both feel like promises unfulfilled and add to my disappointment

william-james88 wrote:It's not human vs no humans, it's good writing vs bad writing. Rescue Bots, Prime and the BB film had humans and didn't suffer for it. While Prime Wars had no humans and sucked hard.

I'm not a big fan of humans myself, but this above statement is true. I didn't mind the humans in Prime, but in Armada especially they are one of the biggest detractors for me. People say Kicker in Energon is the worst. Somehow I can tolerate him. Billy & Fred are unlike any other humans in the history of TF media as while I am normally a very calm person, I wish them a painful death that never happened.

The focus and prominence of the kids in Season one of Prime did put me off watching any more. None are quite as terrible as Kicker, Billy or Fred from UT or the military from Bayformers, of course. Humans shouldn't be written as the focal point of a Transformers show/film.

But as WFC is set within the timeframe that it is, leaning more towards the humanising characterisation of Beast Wars, would be the ideal. Ratchet and Impactor are the only ones that came to mind with a distinct viewpoint and personality from Siege. Everyone else was just by the numbers. Jetfire = Discount Dinobot. Starscream = Usurper etc

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:Ya know, one other thing I forgot about until now that was not delivered but was promised: fan vote characters and their stories.

Impactor v. Mirage, and how Mirage turned Impactor into a bot. "you'll see in the WFC stores!" Yet if anything RATCHET was the one who helped Impactor see the error of his ways, Mirage only had some supplementary commentary and thoughts, he wasn't the direct contributor.

Same with Runamuck, he was supposed to stow away on the Ark right? That would have had Megatron find out they were still alive and gone after them without the need of the Mercenaries and Deeseeus, and could have presented them as an outside threat. But the "fan vote character" didn't even appear.

Both feel like promises unfulfilled and add to my disappointment

I'd assume the show was already in production when the vote was made. So they just bundled the toys together and left it at that.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:Ya know, one other thing I forgot about until now that was not delivered but was promised: fan vote characters and their stories.

Impactor v. Mirage, and how Mirage turned Impactor into a bot. "you'll see in the WFC stores!" Yet if anything RATCHET was the one who helped Impactor see the error of his ways, Mirage only had some supplementary commentary and thoughts, he wasn't the direct contributor.

Same with Runamuck, he was supposed to stow away on the Ark right? That would have had Megatron find out they were still alive and gone after them without the need of the Mercenaries and Deeseeus, and could have presented them as an outside threat. But the "fan vote character" didn't even appear.

Both feel like promises unfulfilled and add to my disappointment

I actually posted about this earlier in the thread. At least there was some interaction between Impactor and Mirage in Siege, but the whole Runamuck thing seems to have been missed. It would be interesting to know if this was cut for time, or they just couldn't get the additional characters rendered for budgetary reasons...

Also I mentioned the Nemesis Prime Spoiler Box didn't happen either, unless you count the "possible" future that SkyLynx showed Prime, which also included Amazon's "Dead Prime", so yay for cameos.

Lastly, I'm sure the Pandemic was partly responsible for this, but I noticed there was no fan vote at all in 2020.

o.supreme wrote:

william-james88 wrote:It's not human vs no humans, it's good writing vs bad writing. Rescue Bots, Prime and the BB film had humans and didn't suffer for it. While Prime Wars had no humans and sucked hard.

I'm not a big fan of humans myself, but this above statement is true. I didn't mind the humans in Prime, but in Armada especially they are one of the biggest detractors for me. People say Kicker in Energon is the worst. Somehow I can tolerate him. Billy & Fred are unlike any other humans in the history of TF media as while I am normally a very calm person, I wish them a painful death that never happened.

It's the dub voices. Armada had some of the worst casting choices of any English dub anime I've ever seen, and I've seen all of these same actors in other shows where they give good performances. So it is baffling to see the choices made for the Armada dub's English voice cast.