The Energon Pub

when it comes to rid about halfway through the series the 3 Autobot brothers x-brawn prowl and Sideburn were given the ability to power up into their supercharged modes.

now i have been giving this a bit of thought lately

when it comes to the matrix, vector sigma, cybertron, and the allspark, they are all parts of the same greater being that is primus


each living Cybertronian as a living being possesses a spark bond to the matrix , vector sigma , cybertron and the eternal Allspark of Primus itself

now imagine for a moment that each individual/ or at the very least certain individuals could actually possess to their person the potential to power up/supercharge/self evolve / self ascend at will for want of a better way of wording it as a way for that person to over time work their way up through the various stages of enhanced and upgraded Cybertronian that separates the average individual in question, say a minibot like bumblebee or cliffjumper from a bot or con like Optimus or Megatron in terms of over all physical strength, stamina, endurance, speed, agility, intelligence and over all firepower .

and through that bond possess the potential over time to go from being a relatively normal Cybertronain to being one who has used that bond to self enhance and otherwise evolve their body over time to being at the most extreme a Cybertronian who's overall power levels could potentially rival or even surpass those of even the most powerful of Autobots or Decepticons such as Optimus Prime or Megatron

in essence it being a case of the spirit being willing though the flesh be weak

so to speak with the individual in question using a severely brutal combination of training , determination, their sparkbond to cybertron,vector sigma, the allspark, and primus and the power of their very life spark to achieve over time that which would be the presumably impossible when seen through the optics of a cybertronian who has worked their way up through the ranks to achieve that same set of personal power levels through full body enhancements and upgrades

in short people think of this as being a reasonable comparison to a saiyan character from the dragonball/z/gt mythos ascending to super saiyan, 2, 3, 4

That is to say that one could look at this scenario as being a transformer adaption of the concept as it were.

I actually think it would be interesting to see that idea explored throughout a animated series or comic storyline.

I actually think it would be possible for a g1 era Autobot or Decepticon or a beast era Maximal or Predacon to achieve that kind of self evolution assuming that the individual in question can successfully learn to control and properly channel the power of their lifespark , can also master processor over matter and in doing so use the two simultaneously together as a way to self evolve their body through the use of willpower as a way to both control and direct that persons metamorphosis into a more powerful being on a full body submoleculer/nanotechnological level.

what are your thoughts on the matter?

when it comes to idw's beast wars comic continuity i could all to easily see this idea being explored throughout a number of storylines set on pre/beast machines cybertron in which said storylines is a faithful comic adaption of the show but with said storyline being set some time just before the events of beast machines season 1 episode 1.


[link]

that article on burning justice is what got me thinking on the whole idea of a cybertronian posessing the ability to self evolve/ascend
me i could understand the idea being tweaked to the point that only certain cybertronians would have the potential to self evolve like that when it comes to the whole chosen one scenario

say with the person having the potential to one day become his generations prime leader but with said individual using those abilities to self ascend /evolve over time as they work there way up through the ranks over time

about the only way i could see their being any serious negative side effects would be if the person in question were to aid a fellow ally in gaining that ability but with it playing out in such a way that for a time the person who posessed that abilityoriginally would be left in a severely weakend state for a time

like what happened when optimus primal reformated nightscream into his technorganic form

could be interesting

sounds like you'veput ALOT of thought into this.

heres the link for that burning justice article i tried linking to in my original posthttp://tfwiki.net/wiki/Burning_Justice

just out of curiosity

say a protoformed cybertronian were to scan a saiyan or a kryptonian for its humanoid alternate form

would the cybertronian in question be as powerful as the person it scanned originally for its human form or would that cybertronians sparkbond make it even more powerful then the average saiyan or kryptonion would be under optimal conditions


its a idea like that that can open up a a large number of potential elseworld possibilities

link still broke. move url to after word "post"

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Burning_Justice

Transformers Cybertron plays on this theme, especially with Megatron. He turned in to Galvatron just by being pissed off enough.

yeah i know

optimus also had his moments throughout the cybertron series

his using metroplex's axe on galvatron that first time being one such example

another example being when optimus deflected that dark enery blast galvatron hit him with in the second to final episode

I kinda zoned out reading your thread when I had this thought that was inspired by your thread. What if when a character died in one reality, his spark went to another. Like Ironhide is killed in the G1 movie, it goes to the A/E/C reality.

Kinda dumb and interesting at the same time.

SentinelA wrote:I kinda zoned out reading your thread when I had this thought that was inspired by your thread. What if when a character died in one reality, his spark went to another. Like Ironhide is killed in the G1 movie, it goes to the A/E/C reality.

Kinda dumb and interesting at the same time.

Would sorta suck for Ironhide. There was only 1 annoying little kid in his reality, not 3.

In answer to the earlier pondering about the scanning, I would have to assume that it would only allow for a resemblance of the outward physical form that was scanned. Like 'Bees '74 Camaro mode in the movie. Outside it looked crappy but under the hood, that was not a stock '74 engine.

genozaur, I like where your ideas are going especially when you threw in the processor-over-matter aspect. All of it is not too dissimilar to how I feel the human mind works. The spiritual and philosophical approaches in the study of the martial arts are something I think everyone should study to at least some degree. Explains a lot of how we do what we do and how we can make our bodies do more with less effort by shifting more of the load to the mind and spirit.
The possible offshoot lines (comic,cartoon or toy) that could come from this could be way cool. Could be a way of adding more about Metallikato into the mix as well. Your idea could well be a springboard for a broader, future series. Keep developing this, I know it already has my brain going. I know I would rather contemplate this stuff than think about the RotF toy line.

this idea tmacks is just the beginning my friend

this is a further change i have made to the idea

when it comestot he transformers mythos the combiner teams were more or less a rarity among their kind over the years while in the brave mythos the combiner teams were the so called exception to the rule as it were

over time as the cybertronian gains a greater degree of mastery and self control over their ability to self evolve they would over time also gain a greater degree of mastery and self control over their ability to combine with any other fellow evolving cybertronian with the ability to combine making it possible for either cybertronian to combine with each other

with the combiner forms ranging from 2 person combiner teams at the very least with the 3 and 4 person combiner teams being the norm and the 5 and 6 person combiner teams being the most extreme but with the 5 and 6 member combiner forms being allowed to include anywhere from 1 -5 additonal members as power up armor /booster pack armor or weapon pack armor as well


with each level of cybertroian combination exploring 3 different ways to combine the 3 different levels


this would be a good example of what i am talking about
check this out for the basic 2 person formed super robot style combiner form level 1.1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG1V1ujs ... A&index=22

this one here wouldd be a enhanced version ofthe basic 2 person combiner form in which either individual could combine with the other as a sort of weaponpack/boosterpack style brute mode for level 1.2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyt2gYx2xAM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKlG2v-0 ... re=related



with this third version being perhaps the closest a 2 person self evolving cybertronian combiner team could come to pulling off a comparable transformer mythos adaption of the whole saiyan fusion scenario this would be level 1.3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THsjlkIWzPU


now apply that line of thought to the 3 member, 4 member , five member , and 6 member plus combiner teams

YouTube - Might Gaine Joint Dragon Fire

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uODpVhtH824



basicly think of this as being a alternate way of exploring the whole super saiyan fusion scenario from the dragon ball/z/gt mythos while at the same time adapting this to the transformers mythos and expanding on it to the ultimate degree

it being in some equal part a transformer adaption of saiyan fusion beyond the basic 2 person into one fusion form and at the same time being a way to adapt it to the combiner teams gestalt forms and in such a way that said combiner teams while in combiner form can over time also work it/their way up through the various levels of cybertrian self evolution

Thus leading to the conclusion that over time, the same principles employed in the evoloved individuals being able to combine can also, with further study, be applied to the collective consciousness of the new combiner allowing later generations of evolved combiners to further join into near city scale mode. The power and collective intelligence being on par (eventually) to near Primus like scale. (just a theory anyway)


Abilities like Vector Primes could, in a way be attributed to such evolution although originally presented as directly Primus granted or other similar explanations.

I don't know how familiar you are with the Batman Beyond cartoon or the short-lived Spider-Man 2099 comic, but I could very well
see this study itself evolving into it's own stand alone series along the same line as either of those.
I think Marvel certainly went down the wrong path when they took the evolution of the Transformers (mainly the Decepticons) down the path that led to us seeing the Decepticon demi-god Liege Maximo. Astounding creation but it could have been done so much better and I think that what you have going is a great example of how it should have / can be improved upon. It would be a pleasure to continue brainstorming and I'm curious to hear what the rest of you think as well.

Sentinel A, to add to your earlier idea, after giving it a second thought you hit on something great. Energy doesn't just simply vanish, it changes forms. So where DOES that Spark go or What does it change into? Your thought/idea could actually tie into genozaurs continuity given that the evolutions would likely require more energy than normal or possibly something on a whole different frequency or wavelength. If the Sparks of Primus' children simply alter wavelengths rather than dissipating than an evolved Cybertronian may be capable of recieving or harnessing these wavelengths to enhance their own forms. Rare instances may even give rise to a Transformer able to directly read the original pattern. Not necessarily commune with the dead but incorporate the hard information of those past experiences into ones own processor while utilizing the rest of the wavelength for the evolution process. I don't mean to step on your toes genozaur, I'm just "thinking outloud" here since Sentinels idea inspired me like yours did with him.

Anyone else want to make smoke roll out of our ears?

this idea is just so incredible

for me anyway this idea started out as a set of individual thoughts set up around a set of loosely similer though not actually interconnected topics i had going in my head the past couple weeks or so

that first post i put up starting discussion on the matter got all the subjects and thoughts i had on the matters gelling together in my head at the time of my first post on the matter

but right now

i swear its like this idea just keeeps going on its own ,growing and evolving on and on in my head by itself

its almost like its feeding on and self sustaining itself

i swear its like my subconscious mind is just going on automatic pilot examining the matter at its own pace in real time
and in dream time as well even when i choose to dream in a lucid state while i sleep at night

this kind of thing has never actually happened to me before as ideas pertaining to science fiction/science fantasy go

to me the whole experience is fun, freaky and even a little bit scary at times in its own way

right now though i am punch drunk, i'm letting my mind drift and i am enjoying every second of the trip

seriously though i'll let you know in my next post if i manage to come up with another breakthrough on the matter.

peace out

Well then, Pack your bags because your're REALLY going on a Head Trip now!

Ever consider the possibility that the concept(s) you are proposing for the Transformer characters are, in fact, real
and that you yourself could be the one experiencing this process? In an effort to maintain a solid grasp upon what you think you know as "normality" your conscious mind is anchoring the occurence of your sub-concious to an established and "stable" fantasy concept (Transformers mythos) in an effort to process and rationalize changes at a pace that won't overload your system.

I know, sounds like the messed up plot of a Total Recall sequel. I can't really relate it in better terms without knowing more about your possible religious or philosphical beliefs. Anyone else out there have a good working knowledge of the Martial Arts and the religion, or "Zen" behind it? I only ask because my own understanding and study are such that I fear I would "lose" most folks in trying to explain fully my beliefs in these concepts and in many of the higher aspects that could be associated with this thread topic. I've seen and experienced things in my time that most folks can't wrap their brains around and that others that have experienced the same things, well...it scared the Hell out of them. Humans are capable of far more than they realize but it is their own minds and their own selfish need to hold onto what they consider "safe" that is holding them back.
Science has laid down it's strict, unbreakable laws and mankind foolishly sticks to them even though, being a flawed species, man was the one who made these "perfect" laws and decreed that the whole Universe follows them. How arrogant is that?

Keep writing down concepts, keep thinking on new aspects and new theories to explain the Cybertronian evolution. Let the floodgate of ideas open and most of all, Fear Nothing! No idea is too outlandish. I, for one, look forward to seeing how far this process can be taken. I'm also wanting to hear from anyone else following along on this ride. This is something that could totally take blow your Transformer Universe out of the water with it's sheer awsomeness. I can't be the only one totally stoked about what genozaur has come up with.

speaking of lucid dreaming did you know that with enough experience a person can use it as a way to in dream time literally reexperience/relive in lucid dream time in a thoroughly first person viewpoint any event that the person has a thoroughly clear memory of as a living person?

seriously man its a true fact

back in the day when i was going through jnr and snr high school i got into the habit of smoking 10t at the time

i never did it more then one day out of the month and never did more then 2 hits at a time


long story made short i managed to avoid getting hooked on it in the long term and wutie the habit completely after i graduated from high school

only reason i brought that point up though is because the night before last i managed while in a lucid dream state to successfully remember the whole experieince of taking a hit off the stuff memory wise

the next morning i swear i was so out of it and mellowed that for all intents and purposes i might as well have taken that hit in real time
it took me the better part of a hour to figure it out for myself but i had actually succeeded in exploring the very memory of the experience and the event itself with such extreme detail memory wise that for all intents and purposes i had actually fooled my own brain into believing that event had actually happened in real time

i am still not quite entirely certain how i managed to pull it off but the whole experience just blows my mind

Interesting you should bring that up. Way back in my high school days I did something similar as a study aid. Smoked the night before while studying for biology finals, next morning went into class so smoked I could barely feel my feet under me and got a B+ on what should have been the hardest test of the year. Haven't done the stuff but maybe a handfull of times in the last 12-14 years. It's the experiences without any assistance, especially the perceptions of the "minds eye" that prove to be the most surprising. Sadly, this is an ability that has become lost to me over recent years, for reasons that I have not been able to figure out or be able to counter. Almost like there is a wall in front of me at all times. Or worse, like trying to catch a glimpse of something you know is there but you only see it's shadow disappearing just around the next corner every time.
I'll reconnect with it again someday, of that much I'm sure.
If you are around the point where I think you are in terms of exploration of midscape than start letting go of all you have learned about conventional scientific standards and laws. Rules were, after all, made to be broken.
This is going to sound so damn geeky and retarded, but I don't know how else to put it and make it easy to comprehend so I'll just say it...try thinking like a Jedi. God, that sounded lamer than I thought it would. O.k. try thinking like a Shaolin Jedi drinking shroom tea at a Scientology convention being protested by Wiccans. That sounds much better. At some point you should either experience a) a mild to moderate head-ache, b) come one step closer to Zen enlightenment or c) sparks will shoot out of your ass in a fit of terror in which case you may want to stop.
Nobody ever said evolution was pretty...

getting back to the original matter of discussion at hand

when it comes to the very concept of fusion as it has been adapted to the transformers mythos and explored in this topic when it comes to this subject i believe that it could also bring with it a possible counterpart ability as well

that is to say that this other ability would be similer to it but at the same time it being a entirley alternate way of exploring it

take the whole idea of cybertronian fusion reverse it and apply it to a single cybertronian that has the ability to self evolve but with that person doing it in such a way that the person instead over time prooves successful in mastering cybertronian fission for want of a better term

with this other person using a combination of determination, willpower, mediatation, mind over matter ,the very power of their lifespark, and their bond to the allspark /vectorsigma/cybertron /primus to successfully subdevide their very being

physically/emotionally/and spiritually speaking in which the individual uses it as a way to successfully make the transition from being a single person to being two individuals in which each are but a single half of that same person


with the person who has subdevided their self doing this as a way to successfully remove/overcome/ and otherwise expunge of their person any and all spiritual/physical/psychological imperfections they originally had to their person as a single living being


say for example the person did this as a way to gain a greater degree of self control over their inner darkside

or for that matter as a way for that person to gain a greater degree of self control over their person

or in general simply as a way for that person to take a objective look at their self from the other persons view point as it were with it being a way for a person to successfully psychologically debug their mind as it were

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punch/Counterpunch
From a purely psychological viewpoint, Punch's character could be seen as an individual who has quite literally split his personality in half with all of the positive qualities which make Punch who he is as an Autobot warrior making up the light side of his personality, his conscious mind and his very spark and his minor alternate personality of Counterpunch being made up of all the negative qualities which make Punch who he is as a living person. These negative qualities quite literally make up the dark side of his spark.

that is what got me thinking on the whole idea of cybertronian fission as a possible counterpart to the fusion scenario


with it though the fission scenario could also serve as a fresh way to explore the whole evil twin angle

thats all the new thoughts i have managed to come up with on the matter so far

thoughts people?

http://infinituswolf.deviantart.com/art ... 3-58641674

http://arkanjel8.deviantart.com/art/Prime-Time-41281107

change the hair bit to achain metal like wire hair look and i could actually see that look work for a self evolving cybertronian

hey tmachsimus you still here man hello?

genozaur wrote:hey tmachsimus you still here man hello?

he's been m.i.a. for over a week. Real life responsibilities and stuff.

quick everyone focus your minds and call out to him.

don't know about anyone else here but i have been doing some more brainstorming lately whe it comes to the whole zoids/transformers/dragonball stuff me we have been talking about off and on lately

heres what i got so far

let me know what you think of this idea

a self evolving cybertronian goes through with cybertronian fission to become 2 biengs

one half of the two chooses to downsize to micromaster scale while the other chooses not to

they both go on a planet hopping journey with one of the planets they explore being a jungle planet/beast planet style world in which the larger one leanrs the variouse fighting styles of that planet

while the second planet is a planet z zoida like world inwhich the micromaster of the 2 evnetually decides to scan and adopt a zoid like form for their alternate mode

i can think of anumber of possiblitiies that could come with exploring that scenario

one of which being that when they evnetually undergo cybertronian fussion to refuse back into their original single form is that a potential bonus would be that the fused single form would have that indivdiual sporting a set of sentient armor in which the the larger individual of the fissioned duo has inherited the survival and fighting instincts of the smaller zoidformer half of the fissioned duo

or at the most extreme it could also play out in such a way that the smaller zoidformer half of the fissioned duo in their fusioned single form would essentually serve a role of a hybrid cybertronian zoidformer organoid turned powermaster/godmaster warrior for the larger fissioned partner of the duo in thier single enhanced fuisoned form

the end result of this mixed fusion of autobot and beastformer beingthat the duo in their fusioned single form would have such a set of enhanced abilities that they would be a mix of the abilities one would find in a two member self evolving cybertronian combiner team in which either partener serves as power up armor for the other in their combiner form and would also find in a headmaaster partnership such as the one which existed between abraham dante and scorponok's characters in the idw g1 continuity

i actually think this could further expand on the whole fusion fission scenarios what are your thoughts on the matter?

let me know what you think of this

check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OZxO...eature=related

that whole scene from 241-245 where it shows energon galvatron becoming a giant as he sheds his body shell from its original somewhat smaller size

and then in this scene from 702-706 it shows his entire body pulsing with energon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OZxO...eature=related

and in this scene it continues from 1-26

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zjlK...eature=related

just like when goku, gohan, goten, trunks, or vegeta would ascend to the next level of super saiyan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKDjmCXNQx0

the scene from 449-532 shows optimus powering up all the way as he goes super gold

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xvZ2...eature=related

from 057-137 its a scene that shows prime being damn near enraged


now lets apply each of those power up scenes to a single characterusing a combination of those scenes playing out in such a way that it visually explores the very idea of a cybertronian transcending to the next power level.

done just right animation wise i could actually see the scene being, well, yuusha brave epic man

we are talking seriously mind blowing awesome right there man


in a nutshell take THIS SCENE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIHx7xNGZ18

that transformation scene from dragonball z the buu saga the one where goku goes ssj3 for the very first time and aply that to a cybertronian instead

DAMN i can't even begin to describe how many flavors of awesome sauce that would be right there

personally I'm not a fan of the DBZ/TF cross over idea.

super god jinrai-powermaster-headmaster-targetmaster-action master-planet master optimus prime with 12 minicon ports, 19 "different" alt modes, and a vaccumm cleaner attachment. lets add a digital watch, a base and don't forget 4 "d" batteries. Really, why does Robo-christ prime need a kameha meyha?


its too over the top rediculous. i kinda like the zoids thing, but it could use a few tweeks.

also alot of the above links don't work.

I find this topic very interesting.

I dont have any input but its interesting.

question when itcomes to saris character in transformers animated she happesn to be a hybrid human/cybertronian/metahuman right?

i have been giving this a bit of though lately when it comes to the very idea of a transformer character unlocking thier hidden strentgh and using it processor over matter their willpower and dermination and fighting spirit and training to self evolve at will when it comes to this being a case of the transformer literally having to earn their uprade over time

jsut how far could one go in exploring that very idea if said character happens to be a human cybertronian hybrid like sari but is instead one in which their huamn form is actually a saiyan kryptonian hybrid of the 2 races

just how far could one go in exploring the caracters ability to self evolve/ascend/power up at will?

on the one hand i can understand how it would be entirely possible for the saiyan kryptonian cybertronian hybrid to use the abilitys of their kryptonian, saiyan, and cybertronian heritages to affectivly self enhance each of the other 2 and to also effectively compensate the inhirent weakness of one heritage with the abilities of each of the other 2

for example

that person using their abilities as a yellow sun impowered kryptonian hybrid to easily max out their power levels as a hybrid saiyan so that they can more easily make that first change in ascending to super saiyan

or also using their ability to ascend to a super saiyan 3 as a way to effectivly channel enough yellow sun radiation to at least temporarily nullify the affects that kryptonite would have on that beings partial kryptonian dna while handling the kryptonite outside of a lead suit

or for that matter using their ability to self evolve at will so as to effectivly amplify and literally overclock their bodies over all power levels with that person using their abilities as a hybrid kryptonian/saiyan/cybertronian being in such a way that each of the 3 effectivly compliment the other two to such a extreme degree that the person's overall peak powerlevels could potentually be truly limitless in a truly self perpetuating manner of speaking

i've never seen a tf keep weird abilities of the alt mode. granted fire trucks can use a hose, but we never saw a bee-tf make honey. kryptonian/saiyan/cybertronian? what the mary sue are you rambling about? seriously thats just the most over the top thin i've ever heard. ooh ooh if it dies can it be resurrected with spawns powers too? and give it a my little pony and a katana so its more betters