The Energon Pub

You know I think some of you are forgetting that when Hasbro signed the exclusivity contract for the botcon seekers they had no real plan to ever release those characters or even really continue the line at all. The plan was the line would end and that would be the big blow out the complete seeker set albeit at a premium. So those complaining about the rarity and lack of a chance to have the full set get over it you NEVER were going to have that chance.

Now as for repainting if you're good enough you can do your own Dirge and TC. The only one you can't do is Thrust.

EDIT: I see JT beat me to the point.

Koloth wrote:You know I think some of you are forgetting that when Hasbro signed the exclusivity contract for the botcon seekers they had no real plan to ever release those characters or even really continue the line at all. The plan was the line would end and that would be the big blow out the complete seeker set albeit at a premium. So those complaining about the rarity and lack of a chance to have the full set get over it you NEVER were going to have that chance.

Now as for repainting if you're good enough you can do your own Dirge and TC. The only one you can't do is Thrust.

EDIT: I see JT beat me to the point.

See I disagree, we ALL knew there was a chance (with the popularity of the line) that they may have continued the line after the movie was out of the way, just as we all knew the main reason they ended the line when they did was to make way for the movie.

And you both also missed the main point of my post which was, get over it, life goes on. (I may not have made that as clear as I could mind.)

(And for the record, a few lucky americans paying a premium for something I want that may never have existed is scant concolation.)

Grimlock_CA wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:

Grimlock_CA wrote:I too, totally agree with you.

Exclusives should be Repaints/remolds of obscure characters! Failing that they should have there own line.. I fell in love with the classics line.. its what brought me back to TF fandom and I was saddened to see the Botcom exclusive seekers.. I can totally understand most of the seekers (lets be honest if ONE of the cone heads had been mass released we could have just done some repainting and been done with it) but to have 5+ being exclusives is really a bit much.. I just hope if they do dinobots for the classic line they don't give them the same treatment..

There is Gimlock in the classics line!
And they'll be relising more Dinos next year!

I am well aware of grimlock being in the classic line as I mentioned hes the reason I came back.

I'm not playing the woe is me card, far from. I just feel that EVERYONE should be able to get Iconic characters! I love the idea of exclusives but I feel they should be things like MP Prime / Black Convoy, things that appeal to hardcore collectors!

Yea but the Dinobots arn't exclusives!
And there is one Conehead on retail!

I wasn't addressing you personally red. Just everyone in general complaining about it. Did I get the figures? No, I like many others can't afford it. Do I wish they had done it differently? Yes. But I also realise that they weren't going to do it differently.

They had never planned to release those characters any other way. So the fact that some got them and others didn't is perfectly fair. They signed that exclusivity contract long before classics was ever released and before they ever knew it would be so popular. If you remember they continually said it was a filler line with no intentions of continuing usless it proved to be popular with the fans. It did and so we get Sunstreaker Sideswipe and Octane and whoever else they design over the next year.

We can complain about the initial decision to use the seekers. But really you can't do anything about it. Like I said short of the exclusives the rest of us were NEVER going to get those characters.

Koloth wrote:I wasn't addressing you personally red. Just everyone in general complaining about it. Did I get the figures? No, I like many others can't afford it. Do I wish they had done it differently? Yes. But I also realise that they weren't going to do it differently.

They had never planned to release those characters any other way. So the fact that some got them and others didn't is perfectly fair. They signed that exclusivity contract long before classics was ever released and before they ever knew it would be so popular. If you remember they continually said it was a filler line with no intentions of continuing usless it proved to be popular with the fans. It did and so we get Sunstreaker Sideswipe and Octane and whoever else they design over the next year.

We can complain about the initial decision to use the seekers. But really you can't do anything about it. Like I said short of the exclusives the rest of us were NEVER going to get those characters.

We may still get a chance! If they relise a new seekermold! a bigger one, voiger, that yould get it into scale with Megatron! I hope.

lanzajr26 wrote:No one is forcing you to collect exclusives. I'd rather collect a line I find appealing than settle for Animated, they just do absolutely nothing for me.

It's not all about what you're being "Forced" to do. It is detracting from this issue - most people are stuck with an Incomplete Seeker set for Classics. I don't care what anyone says, it's horrible practice.

I agree that the animated line probably excited me more than Classics, especially since most of the figures are G1-based anyway. Though that's because of the better classics and overall fun look of the figures.

Now I'm going to put my neck on the line here and say that I always like to see a thread started by Skywarp 2. I may not always agree with what he's saying, a lot of the time I'm outright opposed to particular viewpoints, but it just fascinates me to see the number of responses he gets and the galvanising of polar opinions that always comes out in these threads. Please though S2, can we just let the exclusive thing drop.

I appreciate your comments about people who have the exclusives tending to be the ones who defend them the most, but as an owner of this years Botcon pieces I would like to give a wee counter argument about my decision to purchase the figures this year. Given the price and the fact that I'm UK based and so wasn't about to be going to the con it wasn't an easy choice.

For the last several years I've been trying to be as completist as possible on a limited budget in a country where full lines aren't even released at retail. I have almost all of Armada, most of Energon and selected pieces of Cybertron. I will be revisiting the Cybertron line and expanding this portion of my collection in time, but while it was widely available at retail I was going through an extended period of unemployment. Rent and bills take priority over toys. My collection from these lines isn't as extensive as Counterpunch's but I approached these lines with a similar aim to his, often frustrated by geography.

So that's a potted history since I got back into collecting at the tail end of Armada. Fast forward to 2007.

The movie designs just haven't moved me. I reserved judgement on the characters until after I actually got to see the movie this weekend and find myself still not impressed. The decission had essentially been made a while ago though that the movie line was one that I was going to give a miss. It seems to be selling well enough, so Hasbro don't need my support of this line for me to feel like I'm doing my bit to support the brand with this particular main line. Depending on how the cartoon takes me I may end up having a similar possition with Animated, but it's early days yet and I'm not prepared to make any sweeping statements about that yet.

Also there is no Auto Assembley in the UK this year, along with the cash saved from avoiding the movie line that means that I haven't had all those impulse buys that inevitably come when I'm let loose in a room full of TF dealers. Plus I couldn't get Glastonbury tickets this year. I had planned to go to Stonehenge for the Solstice instead but that fell through at the last moment. Long and short is that I've ended up without a proper holiday this summer.

So yes, I preordered the GoD box when it became obvious that it was going to sell out. Pretty much all the figures that have come out or are coming out this year that I want have been either exclusives or high price pieces like the MPs or the custom Cyclonus. Classics and Titaniums are about all that I've been after that have seen any UK retail exposure and again we haven't had any full lines released here.

So I've changed my priorities. It's no longer a case of get everything that's out in the UK and import what I want of the best of the rest. My collection has grown to quite a respectable size doing this, but now it's time for a quality over quantity approach. I'll go after what I want and I won't be appologetic about buying exclusives if they fall within that category.

The one thing that I hear time and again that I'm ABSOLUTELY sick of though is 'I couldn't go to the convention so I couldn't get the toys'. This is bull. I couldn't go and got the box set at the same price as anyone who did, albeit with a hefty international shipping on top of that. The other exclusives I had to buy at a mark up, but still nowhere near what flights to the US and best part of a week in hotels would have cost me. I'm still waiting on my Iacon package to arrive, but am certainly very happy with the other exclusives from this years con and expect to enjoy my seekers very much as well.

It has cost me. It's cost me in terms of money that could have been spent on other toys or other things entirely. It's cost me in that I've had to reevaluate the way I approach my collecting entirely. Couple of years back I considered myself lucky to get the Energon SWAT team and wouldn't even have considered Botcon toys as anywhere near within my grasp. This year I made the choice that I wanted them.

Anyone who complains about exclusives could have made the same choice. Wherever in the world you happen to be. Yes, you may have had to cut back on something here or there. Yes you may have had to save up ($5-6 dollars a week for the year to get the box set? Is that really so hard?).

Anyone who didn't order the set when it was available for anyone to order made the choice not to. It was their own decision. Hot Hasbro's. Not FunPub's. Not mine, or Ryan's or Counterpunch's or anyone else who decided differently. And for a lot of us it really wasn't an easy choice to make. I'm not rich. I work not far above minimum wage. This was simply my choice and one that I'm not sorry for.

So please Skwarp 2, please keep coming up with entertaining and contentious points of discussion but let's drop the whole exclusive issue. It's beyond old at this point.

Counterpunch wrote:I've never seen a grown man do so much whining about a toy, ever...

You no longer have an once of credibility because of this:

Say No to classics, yes to "Animated" its cheaper, better, and has a cartoon..!! Plus, it has the Dinobots!!!!

That's right folks, say no to Classics, because Skywarp-2 can't afford them.

Boo, friggen hoo.

You don't really get to spend 2+ months with weekly rants about how great the Classics line is, how unfair the exclusives are, and how perfect these G1 updates are...

and then flip it like this?!?

No sir.

You're ready to drop however many hundreds of dollars it will take to complete the Animated line, and you wouldn't spend $278 upfront, to get a whole BotCon set?

Really now fella. There are standards for reasonable arguments.

You aren't meeting them.

Someone (Probably Punch) needs to call you on it.

and it needs to be said that simply having a complaint, should not dictate policy.

For example:

Exclusives should be Repaints/remolds of obscure characters!

Frankly, this is a very stupid idea.

What brought myself and many others to BotCon this year? The simple desire to NOT miss out on important characters.

What many of the complainers are essentially saying is this:

Haters wrote:If I can't have them, no one else should be able to either!

Well and as my fiance so aptly put it, "F' That!"

Indeed, "F' That."

This is the very definition of an unreasonable argument.

A company should not be allowed to use such disgusting practices to attract people. It is insane and unfair and in other situations it would be under heavy investigation. Just because they can do it, and it makes them money, does not make it acceptable. Examples of good exclusives were the Beast Wars timeliness set from last years - very nerdy collectory things that will probably never get made, not flippin' Thundercracker.

So quite frankly, F' You.

I would have loved those exclusives but, no money I get like €30 a month, and have to buy my Spider-Man comics, and I have to pay €180 so I'm aloud to go to my school + €40 so I can get to my school! And I have to eat something at school which costs at least €50 more each month, so saving isn't an option!

waaaaghlord wrote:Anyone who didn't order the set when it was available for anyone to order made the choice not to. It was their own decision. Hot Hasbro's. Not FunPub's. Not mine, or Ryan's or Counterpunch's or anyone else who decided differently.

Actually, it apparently IS my fault.

Spark Light wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:::AWESOME STUFF!!!::

This is the very definition of an unreasonable argument.

A company should not be allowed to use such disgusting practices to attract people. It is insane and unfair and in other situations it would be under heavy investigation. Just because they can do it, and it makes them money, does not make it acceptable. Examples of good exclusives were the Beast Wars timeliness set from last years - very nerdy collectory things that will probably never get made, not flippin' Thundercracker.

So quite frankly, F' You.

Your bitterness is the sweetness of life.

Gutter Bunny wrote:

What's that for a image? I can't see it!

Sid Burn wrote:No flaming from me, I can see how it would frustrate a collector as this years Botcon Exclusives had some big names involved.

The last of the 6 seekers are especially desirable. As is Alpha Trion for many.

My question to you is, inevitably there will be botcon exclusives for the Transformers Animated series, so does boycotting the classics line make sense?

I think that regardless of whether I own them or not, we should be happy that hasbro generates these exclusives to cater specifically to adult collectors. They have no real obligation to do this.

I think Hasbro and TakaraTomy take good care of its TF fanbase overall. I am thrilled that they are continuing the Classics line because just a few months ago, we all had pretty much accepted the fact that it was finished.

I will be collecting both the Animated and Classics 2.0 line after the movie line wraps up.

Well I would hope that if hasbro was to do any repaints of Starscream in classic colors or in Skywarp, and Thundercracker, that they release that for mass retail as well as a repaint of Bumblebee as cliffjumper at retail...similar to the movie line up..

I just hope that the Botcon exclusives people only center on Classics 2.0 for their exclusives next year, and leave the "Animated" for the mass crowd.. since it's kind of a kiddie design and all, maybe, just maybe they won't go after it.. but I won't hold my breath...

But even if they did do exclusives at Botcon 2008 for the Transformers animated toy line up, it looks like the majority of the figures are being released in mass retail, as apposed to the Botcon Classics and repaints of Cybertron figures that could easily fit into the classics line up!! it was insane the amount of figures reserved for exclusives, which should have been mass released in the first place!!

You know just adding up what my total costs woul be to pick up the entire "Animated" toys so far, I still come in under spending what it would take to purchase that Games of deception box set on ebay!!

skywarp-2 wrote:You know just adding up what my total costs woul be to pick up the entire "Animated" toys so far, I still come in under spending what it would take to purchase that Games of deception box set on ebay!!

but less than the $280 it originally cost.

I feel kinda jaded for not taking advantage of buying the BOTCON exclusives when I had the chance. No worries though. Animated is not a good option in my mind though.

zemper wrote:nice rant,er...point. haha. i thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts.

i for one lament the fact that there is no way in this world that we ordinary mortals who do not have the resources for Botcon exclusives to EVER, EVER complete the classics iteration of the seekers.

i find myself almost brokenhearted to hear that the AMAZING Thrust mold would never be used for mass production. i really couldn't care less about Dreadwing et al, but seeing the seekers almost nearly identical to the G1 animation designs, every TF fanboy's wet dream come true, ready for the picking, and then hearing this sob news...

true, exclusive sets give collectors motivation to come to conventions or shell out grandiose amounts of cash to buy these toys first. but at least they COULD, even at a much later time, produce these exclusives for the general public, even at a limited production run.

it's even worse for international collectors like us, who do not and cannot have the luxury of going into a Botcon. we can only stare at the videos and pics, sigh and wish we had the opportunity to even step into the convention floor and be completely amazed at the sights and sounds.

but i don't hate the fans who got the complete sets. they're so blessed and i'm glad at least some of us are enjoying. but i must agree with you, it's almost not fair...TFs were about enjoyment with others, of equality, not exclusivity.

TF collecting transcends age, racial, gender, political, heck, even religious barriers. with the advent of exclusive sets it again sets divisive barriers; it's either you have this exclusive blah-blah or you don't.

what's worse it feeds the egos of some fans who consider themselves the "True Fans", "Geewuners", "TF purists" et al just because they have completed a certain exclusive set or something like that.

i just hope that this exclusivity will not become a divisive trend in the future. i think equal opportunity should be given to all collectors, regardless of where they are or their circumstances in life.

oh, and on the topic... i like voyager prime, i'm glad he has his faceplate on. hehe.

I completely agree with you... I too am not mad at any collectors who were able to obtain those exclusives from the Botcon..even if I had the cash to purchase just one of those exclusvie figures, I would still feel very much out of the loop without the seeker box sets, and such...to me, there should be a limited run in the future which has alll those Botcon exclusives and prior classics for the fandom at large.. heck why doesn't Hasbro, in conjuction with the company that produced the exclusives offer a "Botcon Price" limited run on the Hasbro Toy shop, with Classics and a Megatron Nerf gun with a Metallic silver repaint as well.. the prices would be at Botcon prices and would still be limited, but would be a special treat for those fans around the world to obtain a few..

Takara tomy does take good care of their fans and if you considr a totla black repaint, and chromium or Gold "lucky draw" figure a comparable exclusive to the Botcon stuff, your sadly mistaken... the Botcon stuff has remolded heads and symbols and colors as apposed to a simple one color repaint!!! there is no comparison..except the prices over there for those repaints are just too outlandish..

overall if I was to buy any of those exclusives, it would hurt even more, because the completist in me would cry out over and over or more, which would mean sacrifising my other hobby tastes and future mass releases..which would end up me shelling out more online after they are sold out of retail..

It's a vicious cycle, of which I Choose to remain out of...

Ratchet looks like he's got a beer gut.

But i am amazed that they have been able to take those ugly ass cartoon designs and turn them into half decent toys....which i wont be buying.

skywarp-2 wrote:, I would still feel very much out of the loop without the seeker box sets, and such...to me, there should be a limited run in the future which has alll those Botcon exclusives and prior classics for the fandom at large.. heck why doesn't Hasbro, in conjuction with the company that produced the exclusives offer a "Botcon Price" limited run on the Hasbro Toy shop, with Classics and a Megatron Nerf gun with a Metallic silver repaint as well.. the prices would be at Botcon prices and would still be limited, but would be a special treat for those fans around the world to obtain a few..
.

umm.. doesn't this contradict your point about how there shouldn't be expensive exclusives? granted.. HTS isn't exclusive, but your previous argument seemed to point out that the inflated price of the botcon sets made them difficult to obtain as well.

Counterpunch wrote:I've never seen a grown man do so much whining about a toy, ever...

You no longer have an once of credibility because of this:

Say No to classics, yes to "Animated" its cheaper, better, and has a cartoon..!! Plus, it has the Dinobots!!!!

That's right folks, say no to Classics, because Skywarp-2 can't afford them.

Boo, friggen hoo.

You don't really get to spend 2+ months with weekly rants about how great the Classics line is, how unfair the exclusives are, and how perfect these G1 updates are...

and then flip it like this?!?

No sir.

You're ready to drop however many hundreds of dollars it will take to complete the Animated line, and you wouldn't spend $278 upfront, to get a whole BotCon set?

Really now fella. There are standards for reasonable arguments.

You aren't meeting them.

Someone (Probably Punch) needs to call you on it.

and it needs to be said that simply having a complaint, should not dictate policy.

For example:

Exclusives should be Repaints/remolds of obscure characters!

Frankly, this is a very stupid idea.

What brought myself and many others to BotCon this year? The simple desire to NOT miss out on important characters.

What many of the complainers are essentially saying is this:

Haters wrote:If I can't have them, no one else should be able to either!

Well and as my fiance so aptly put it, "F' That!"

Indeed, "F' That."

wow got someone's panties and their fiance's panties in a bunch.. flame away!!!! Your a have and not a have not... stop defending it.. just like I said earlier.. look at all these flamers, they are all ones who own a botcon set...!!

And yes the title of the sets is Games of Deception, but it's clearly a take off classics.. especially the seekers sets...come on

And as far a us whinning about it, I guess it has become a crime to feel disgruntled and discuss it in a logical manner.. but expected flaming.. so what ever..

Grimlock_CA wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:

Grimlock_CA wrote:I too, totally agree with you.

Exclusives should be Repaints/remolds of obscure characters! Failing that they should have there own line.. I fell in love with the classics line.. its what brought me back to TF fandom and I was saddened to see the Botcom exclusive seekers.. I can totally understand most of the seekers (lets be honest if ONE of the cone heads had been mass released we could have just done some repainting and been done with it) but to have 5+ being exclusives is really a bit much.. I just hope if they do dinobots for the classic line they don't give them the same treatment..

There is Gimlock in the classics line!
And they'll be relising more Dinos next year!

I am well aware of grimlock being in the classic line as I mentioned hes the reason I came back.

I'm not playing the woe is me card, far from. I just feel that EVERYONE should be able to get Iconic characters! I love the idea of exclusives but I feel they should be things like MP Prime / Black Convoy, things that appeal to hardcore collectors!

I agree with you... the Botocn exclusives are way too much like what a retailed mass release should have been and to have over half the line up end up on the exclusive auctioning block is just sad....

Also let me answer something....



NOT all of us were able to save up for the BOTCON sets in time before the convention...like I spent 3K on fixing my car so I could ge to work and back, and I had that money as a Gift from my family, sure I would have liked to have spent a good portion of that on the Botcon sets, I would have too, had not "Life" gotten in the way!!! so for thos of you stating that we should have saved up before hand, that is no excuse, cause some of us can't and why should we when most of those figures as icons, and mainline characters, should have been released in mass retail in the first place..60% of classics to date was retail, then another 40% ended up exclusives at the Botcon..!!! what a freaking jip!!

I love classics, I say boycott them for those who are completists and who haven't even picked them up the first go around, cause even if you manage to track down all the mass retail ones from ebay, your still out about half that were sold at the Botcon!!! it just doesn't make sense!!!

JTKranix wrote:

Redimus wrote:As some one who lives in the UK, I've taken more than my fiar share of transformer toy related disapointments in the short two or three years that I've been collecting.

Yes, I was fecked of when I found out the goal I had of completeing the classic seekers was utterly out of my reach.

Yes I think it was an exceptionally poor move by hasbro to release these (especilly in the case of thrust) popular charecters to such a small number of people.

Tell you what bugs me more though.

Your once weekly rant about bugger all... now that's REALLY annoying.

In short, here! here! Counterpunch!

It wasn't Hasbro though. It was TFCC. Hasbro had no plans to release those characters. TFCC made it happen.

If it wasn't for them, no one would have those repaints and remolds.

your right, but those people who own them could fill up an elementary gym....Hasbro should have mass released those seekers!!!

yes, please, boycott classics. the more people that do, the easier it will be for me to find them when they are released

time to move on skywarp.. unfortunatly, there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

skywarp-2 wrote:Your a have and not a have not... stop defending it..

And as far a us whinning about it, I guess it has become a crime to feel disgruntled and discuss it in a logical manner.. but expected flaming.. so what ever..

Get off your F'ing cross.

You openly invited flaming in your post.

This issue has been done to death.

It's not the so called "Haves" that keep bringing it up either.

It's you. It's not cool.

You know who is cool though?

waaaaghlord, he's awesome.

In every way possible he addressed the issue in a way that would ensure he was able to get the things he desired.

You know who else is cool?

Redimus

At least he can admit that while he doesn't agree with the situation he understands the situation with a clear degree of clarity.

What is it for you now?

Did you just disapprove of the price, or were you not able to go because of your car/expenses?

If you're having as much financial trouble as you claim, isn't the issue really with you? and not with the toys, companies, or fandom?

side note - skywarp, the next time you put 1804 pictures on the main post.. couldja let me know? or put it in the title or something? ole bessy here just about bought the farm. *rubs monitor*

Life is part "planning for what we think we want" and "working for what we plan on", but it is not true that all people can, even with planning, do all things.

As an ideology many of us are attracted to the idea of equality, of an equal chance; however, this is not actually the way the world works, in nature or in business.

That said, when a system is built up on the idea of equality and changes to one that is not, such as Wizards of the Coast's Magic the Gathering Cards, I can see why some people would be upset.

Rather than bash those people for venting their frustrations, why not try pointing out the basic truth and try to help them?

Punishing does not teach; example and discipline does, which is different.