The Energon Pub

I don't know, its well written enough, but I can see how it would've created a huge fuss amongst fandom. My perspective is different of course, I know the transformers brand recovers, but I can imagine that the future must've looked rather bleak. Some main issues I have with the series:

1. Too Preachy. WAY too preachy. They never miss a beat to clobber you over the head with the benefits of spirituality over the evils of personal gain.

2. Illogical character development. Primal suddenly becoming this 'blessed be the matrix brother brother' guru is a little hard to swallow, and the only time you see any of his previous gusto is when he's chewing out his troop for not being enlightened enough. Go Primal!

3. They don't transform. Well the vehicons do, but the maximals chant their mantra, open their chakra's and then the animal character model sucks into a glowing vanishing point from which the robot mode then sprouts. That's crap. And the fact they hung onto 'I am.... Transformed' for the entire first season sounds really awkward.

4. It didn't make me interested in the toys. Every other transformers series I have walked away thinking 'man oh man would I like to own Thundercougarfalconscream, off to the shops I go' whereas with this one I didn't even care what the toy looked like, never mind any desire to have one.

So yeah, I've caught up now, I know what all the complaining was about, but its hard to begrudge it because it was, at the end of the day, a good story. It just wasn't Transformers.

This is one of those series that people are seeing in a far different light than when it originally aired.
As you said, Primal changed, and it's totally understandable as to why. I could see the character turning spiritual after such a tramatic event, which would then become fanatical. People also blasted then changes in personality of Cheetor and Rattrap. But Rattrap has always been self-serving, and his confidence was shot after recieving a basically weak body. I see Cheetor's change as a result of growing up and becoming rebellious in his own way. Not blindly following the Oracle was a perfectly valid direction to take the character.
And to be fair, when Primal first converts to robot mode you can see that he is transforming and morphing at the same time. It something that was kind of skimmed over after you see it up close after the first time.
On the other hand, the Vehicons were some pretty good toys. They only really had vague similarities to thier cartoon counterparts.

I think you pretty much summed up how I feel about Beast Machines in your post. It is a decent cartoon, but following Beast Wars it should have been so much better.

Beast Machines = Unholy Abomination to the Transformers mythos

Techno Organic Cybertron? Plant bots? Vehicons that look like Captain Power/Go Bot villians? Wheels on Rattrap? Morphing?

I actually liked beast machines (it's my second favorite TF series) but I didn't watch it until AFTER it came out on DVD (enough time for me to be upset at armada and other modern series) so that may effect things. I was also fearing it being worse than it was. After all everyone went GASP! rat trap is a cowards, arachnia is love sick, primal is a hippy, nightscream is annoying, their are plant formers and a vegetable cybertron, etc.

I mostly loved BM and I didn't mind the idea of plantformers. I had a few issues with it though, but not quite the same as those others have had.

1. RATTRAP: Rattrap of all the personality changes seemed the most natural. He was always a coward, just in BW he ended up being a coward who learned to rely on his friends helping him out of a tight spot. With being small, weak, organic, and non transforming in a world where giant, metal, powerful, transforming machines dominate would be enough to explain away any changes he had, with the memory/personality resets they had helping a bit. but as soon as they tried explaining it away with weapons it seemed a bit forced. Rattrap was never a weapons guy, he was a gadgets guy.Unlike some I have no problem with a cowardly rattrap, just their explanation as to why.

2. ARACHNIA: Black Arachnia really needed a character introspection episodeto explore her feelings for silverbolt and explain her shift. As soon as Tankor was revealed to be Rhinox she suddenly went from her old self to sappy. This would not be bad IF they had an introspection episode explaining it. (also a character episode focusing on megatron showing him secretly disliking his beast mode in BW but not wanting to show weakness in front of his troops and thinking a cure would be found on cybertron would have helped alot too).

3, MOST OF SEASON 3: Though I deply enjoyed season 1 and 2, season three left much to be desired. Replacing the sneaky tankor and the amusing jetstorm with Obsidian and Stryka, two characters with uninteresting personalities whose "general" command styles made megatrons forces too faceless and impersonal was a step down in feel. Also Primal absorbing the power of sparks for a needless power up was an annoing reflection of what was to come. I had no problem with the idea of a techno organic cybertron, but how the artists depicted it (A green world with metal trash strewn about and a urban river running through it) made it look too organic. I'd have much rather prefer the place looking like cybertron overrun by cybernetic plants that merge and fuse with the technology seemlessly.

as I said, I loved BM and thecharacters in it, just I had issues with season 3, and how a couple concepts were presented.not trying to force an explanation of weapons on rattrap, a character focus episode for arachnia and megatron, and a different artist depicting techno organic cybertron would have been a good quick fix for most of the issues with it and all of the ones i had with season 1 and 2.

Loki120 wrote:This is one of those series that people are seeing in a far different light than when it originally aired.
As you said, Primal changed, and it's totally understandable as to why. I could see the character turning spiritual after such a tramatic event, which would then become fanatical. People also blasted then changes in personality of Cheetor and Rattrap. But Rattrap has always been self-serving, and his confidence was shot after recieving a basically weak body. I see Cheetor's change as a result of growing up and becoming rebellious in his own way. Not blindly following the Oracle was a perfectly valid direction to take the character.
And to be fair, when Primal first converts to robot mode you can see that he is transforming and morphing at the same time. It something that was kind of skimmed over after you see it up close after the first time.
On the other hand, the Vehicons were some pretty good toys. They only really had vague similarities to thier cartoon counterparts.

I totally agree with Loki here Flashback, especially on he vehicon toys. I have been collecting them as of late and though they look bizarre they are solid toys. The only Maximals I have seen that I would reccomend would be Blackarachnia, the smaller Cheetor and the lion...but I have seen very few.

As for the show, my only major MAJOR quibble is Evil Rhinox Tankor. The explanation of how he became evil was weak. Sure you could cite trauma from the crash/virus/enslavement but Rhinox was the mentally and spiritually strongest of all of them. I would have sooner bought Silverbolt going evil from Jetstorm, as his explanations after becoming the somber brooding loner said that a sick part of him enjoyed being Jetstorm. That, Nightscream being too whiny at times and Rattrap's kiddie face in bot mode were my three real problems.

MYoung23 wrote:Beast Machines = Unholy Abomination to the Transformers mythos

Techno Organic Cybertron? Plant bots? Vehicons that look like Captain Power/Go Bot villians? Wheels on Rattrap? Morphing?

Beast Machines is the canon ending to G1.

No way around it.

Counterpunch wrote:

MYoung23 wrote:Beast Machines = Unholy Abomination to the Transformers mythos

Techno Organic Cybertron? Plant bots? Vehicons that look like Captain Power/Go Bot villians? Wheels on Rattrap? Morphing?

Beast Machines is the canon ending to G1.

No way around it.

Luckly there is the Wreckers who gave us at least the Transmetals and the reicarantion of G1 Prime back.

Rhinox was a natural development for me. He always had an agressive dark side lurking just below his surface. Just watch any ep when he's in a bad mood (like Aftermath when he goes after Inferno). Rattrap was also natural for rme. He even said in BW he feels naked without his gun. So imagine how he feels knowing he will NEVER have one. Even Primal, in a way. He wakes up on Cybertron, nbo memeory of anything after teh start of teh BW, hunted, his nemesis in control. He had a mental breakdown. The Oracle provided him with the strength and leadership he needed.

The only character that wasn't fully explained was Megs. Why does he want drones? That was explained. But why his sudden hate of organics? Thats they only thing not explained.

I also didn't like the organicness of Cybertron.

Other than that, it was a great show. Loved teh plots, the overall story archs. Had me routing for both sides for different reasons. And its not often that happens to me. I'll be getting it in DVD when it comes out in a week.

Dynamax wrote:I totally agree with Loki here Flashback, especially on he vehicon toys. I have been collecting them as of late and though they look bizarre they are solid toys.

Okay, must admit I did kinda want Jetstorm and Thrust, and I have universe skywarp who's a redeco of the smaller jetstorm figure.

And I actually liked Rattraps robot design in the series, except every now and again he'd pull an expression that vaguely unsettled me, looked too much like a sad child less like an experienced Maximal warrior. Also liked Silverbolts robot design except for his huge bulging eyes.

Counterpunch wrote:Beast Machines is the canon ending to G1.

No way around it.

To this day, I'm still in denial about that. I hope that one day I'll be able to accept this. I still haven't been able to accept it as the "rest" of BW, but I'm working on it...:shruggin: I mean, it exists so what are you gonna do

Counterpunch wrote:

MYoung23 wrote:Beast Machines = Unholy Abomination to the Transformers mythos

Techno Organic Cybertron? Plant bots? Vehicons that look like Captain Power/Go Bot villians? Wheels on Rattrap? Morphing?

Beast Machines is the canon ending to G1.

No way around it.

And you wonder why Bob Forward got death threats.


And it is still a humongous POS

how did the series end? when it was on Fox i missed the last ending and all i can remember was like a final showdown between megs and primal and there was lava everywhere? i could be wrong but ya....

MYoung23 wrote:And you wonder why Bob Forward got death threats.


And it is still a humongous POS

Think you meant "Bob Skir".

..and it's refreshing to find other people's views of Rattrap that are similar to my own. Take away all the toys and you're left with a frightened young boy who becomes unsure if the toys made him who he is, or if he was an individual to begin with. I loved how he had to build his self-confidence back up, even switching sides in desperation.

Rattrap made Beast Machines for me.

Bob Forward wrote The Agenda. He can't get death threats.

One other thing that confused me. When the maximals lost control of their emotions, they reverted back to beast mode because of the virus. Why did that happen to Megs? He wasn't exposed to the virus, evidenced by the fact he was in robot mode.

Rattrap didn't switch sides. He agreed to protect Megs for 1 night in return for a crapload of weapons. And teh Maximals weren't even supposed to be there then.

Insurgent wrote:Bob Forward wrote The Agenda. He can't get death threats.

Brillant quote! Bob Forward could have written Armada episode "Carnival", and people still wouldn't have hated him.

It's funny that if Hasbro had continued the series with Transtech, bringing back vehicles and G1 characters with beast wars/machines characters, the whole Beast Machines series could have been seen in better light, and the whole G1/BW/BM universe would not have had to ended as it did.

Also, thanks to the haters, instead of a well produced North American series, we got 4 poor anime series.

Bob Skir then.

Still crap on a stick.

You can keep your half rat half wheelchair robot.

RUINED TRANSFORMERS FOREVER

Beast Machines was awesome in my opinion. It was something new to conclude the G1 series with

3, MOST OF SEASON 3: Though I deply enjoyed season 1 and 2, season three left much to be desired. Replacing the sneaky tankor and the amusing jetstorm with Obsidian and Stryka, two characters with uninteresting personalities whose "general" command styles made megatrons forces too faceless and impersonal was a step down in feel.

Well, there wasn't a season 3, that was season 2.

And I actually liked Obsidian...maybe it was just the name.

One other thing that confused me. When the maximals lost control of their emotions, they reverted back to beast mode because of the virus. Why did that happen to Megs? He wasn't exposed to the virus, evidenced by the fact he was in robot mode.

The Maximals lost control over their robot modes not because of the virus, but because they needed total focus to remain in robot mode. The reformatting destroyed the virus, and changed their bodies to techno-organic forms. They needed to find a whole new way of tranforming which required a lot of concentration.
Megatron reverted back to beast mode because it was beginning to overwhelm him, hence his desire to remove it. It was kind of funny to see that he still lost his temper, even after his body was destroyed.

how did the series end? when it was on Fox i missed the last ending and all i can remember was like a final showdown between megs and primal and there was lava everywhere? i could be wrong but ya....

For a complete synopsis of the final episode...
http://bwtf.com/bm/tvshow/episodes/seasontwo/eg3/

Beast Machines was okay as a show.

It was just horrible as a Transformers show.

Fang Wolf wrote:RUINED TRANSFORMERS FOREVER

Every true fan of Transformers knows that!

For all its faults, I feel like Beast Machines deserves a little credit for attempting something new with the franchise: taking the idea from Beast Wars one step further and pitting the "soul" of Technorganicism against the cold, mindless Vehicon hordes had the potential for a multi-layered, ideological conflict that was never fully realized. Unfortunately, between the sudden drop in characterization for some characters (i.e. the strong female goes all lovesick puppy, the new Vehicon generals made into mere puppetmasters, Nightscream's clichéd personality) and the feeling that somewhere along the lines, the story became a little muddled and lost, a bit of potential was lost.

Still...I'd agree that it doesn't deserve a lot of the bashing it gets.

I bought every toy, I watched it every saturday. I liked it then, don't care for it now. The toys are sorta cool still, especially with the designs being pretty close to the movie stuff now.

Beast Wars didn't deserve that. Was BW not doing well? They couldn't have just continued it anyway? Hasbro always having to reinvent the transformers is what usually mucks it up. Started with the original show/toyline. Awesome. Reinvented with the animated movie and tf lost popularity, even though season 3 was pretty cool. Restarted with Beast Wars = awesome. Reinvented with Beast Machines = fan hatred, low profits, man down!
Restarted with RiD.. okay well they're vehicles again. Reinvented with Armada, Energon, Cybertron (cool toys)... GAH ANIME OVERLOAD!

Restarted with the movie. Awesome. Reinvented with the new animated series....

Quote:
One other thing that confused me. When the maximals lost control of their emotions, they reverted back to beast mode because of the virus. Why did that happen to Megs? He wasn't exposed to the virus, evidenced by the fact he was in robot mode.



The Maximals lost control over their robot modes not because of the virus, but because they needed total focus to remain in robot mode. The reformatting destroyed the virus, and changed their bodies to techno-organic forms. They needed to find a whole new way of tranforming which required a lot of concentration.
Megatron reverted back to beast mode because it was beginning to overwhelm him, hence his desire to remove it. It was kind of funny to see that he still lost his temper, even after his body was destroyed.

Ah, got it. I only watched BM once and can't remember things properly. Fortunatly, series 1 is out on DVD this week so I can have a refresher.

Insurgent wrote:Bob Forward wrote The Agenda. He can't get death threats.

One other thing that confused me. When the maximals lost control of their emotions, they reverted back to beast mode because of the virus. Why did that happen to Megs? He wasn't exposed to the virus, evidenced by the fact he was in robot mode.

Rattrap didn't switch sides. He agreed to protect Megs for 1 night in return for a crapload of weapons. And teh Maximals weren't even supposed to be there then.

and that episode might just be the best Transformers story ever seen on the small screen.