The Energon Pub

Tramp wrote:Actually, yes, we can apply DW rules because they are considered as the main core G1 continuity based upon the Ultimate Guide which uses mainly the material found within the DW books as its source So, yes, those rules do indeed apply. Secondly, the manga are just as canon as the anime, US cartoons, and US comics. They are officially licensed and produced by Takara and its affiliates. Wikis are not reliable sources, because they have no accountability. The thing that it suniversal accross most TF continuities is that TFs have genders, romantic relationships, etc, there are examples of children in multiple sources, as well. None of this discounts the protoform method of creating new Transformers. These are all simply other methods they appear to have available to them based upon evidence found in multiple canon sources from many different continuities.

We can go back and forth on this. It won't matter.

I am listening to your points, acknowledging where they are correct and applicable and you in return are not receptive to anything anyone else says. So in essence, this is all moot.

We can take this to a public debate on who acknowledges the DW continuity as canonical. You will not win. Dreamwave borrows heavily from all existing canon. They have added some good ideas to the TF universe, told some good stories ever, they did not however create a lasting definitive TF source, much less source material. Ultimate Guide? based on DW material? No. It has no credibility

Look dude, you have a relatively new joining date. I don’t know if you’re a long time fan or not. I don’t think you are because frankly, I’ve never heard any long time fans put forth an argument like yours. If you are kind of or relatively new, it’s cool. I’ve got no problem discussing stuff and thinking things through.

But right now, you’re kind of the flat-earth scientist with all this arguing for parents the way you are. I’ve seen other members acknowledge your points and ideas, be open to them, only to have you be dismissive. You’ve been cool with me thus far, but just give it a think. If you still want to go with your theory on the matter, that’s cool.

but it will be your theory. You won’t convince others and you can’t state that your point of view is the one and only. You get to be a dissenting opinion against an overwhelming majority.

The genetic codes are probably refering to the personality circuits in G1.

Counterpunch I thougth Hasbro said that the Lithonians were distant relations to the Transfomers on Cybertron. Like a lost colony, the same way the Junkions were. They're just not the kind that can transform.

As counterpunch said, give a listen to what others have to say Tramp, becuase so far, all you keep doing is citing the same thing over and over in MtMtE, which wasn't even aknowled in the same guide that you cite as well.

Night Striker wrote:The genetic codes are probably refering to the personality circuits in G1.

Counterpunch I thougth Hasbro said that the Lithonians were distant relations to the Transfomers on Cybertron. Like a lost colony, the same way the Junkions were. They're just not the kind that can transform.

Show me where.

It seems to me that they were only in the movie because it was easy to kill a whole planet of robot people rather than humanoid fleshy things.

Robot Genocide still has no blood, hence why it wouldn't raise the rating of the movie beyond what it already was.

Oh jeeze I'm going to have to dig through all the old Marvel things. I know that in a profile book about the movie it was shown that the Lithone's could transform into spaceships. I think it was assumed by most that it was a lost colony. I'm going to have to go digging. I know I heard it somewhere. *thinks*

The reason why there's talk about that is in the episode where the Dinobots stayed on Cybertron the disk carly played mentioned that a lot of Autobots left to colonize other worlds when the Decepticons attacked them. So It's assumed that Junkion and Lithone are, most likely, two of those coloneies. I don't think the Sharkticons are though.

Night Striker is correct, there is definately a connection between the Lithonians and Cybertronians. If you have read the marvel universe TTF guides, their write-ups on Kranix anbd Arbelus showed alternate forms, even though they never used them in the movie. If I recall correctly, originally they were supposed to transform in the original movie script.

There are definate implications though for both groups.

I'm not sure, I've read it, I own it, I just have to find it. *laughs*

Dude, EVERYTHING Transformed in that movie. DANIEL transformed in the movie. (Yeah, it was his exosuit, but that's not the point here.) And besides, Tramp, I thought those Marvel guides were obsolete. Oh, sorry, they help your arguments. Right.

And I think this argument's over. Night Striker and Counterpunch stated what most of us have been trying to say for the last while, and Tramp, when you've got at least 3 or 4 people telling you MTMTE doesn't count, you know it's true. Counterpunch doesn't bullshit, and Counterpunch knows what he's talking about. You see, Tramp, there's good, there's great, and then there's Counterpunch. (/Cheap Sucking up.)

But seriously, You can say what you want about me, but when you've got people such as Glyph, or Counterpunch, or Cyber Bishop or peple along those lines telling you you're wrong, you're wrong.

None of the material is "obsolete" they all remain canon. Each is part of its own universe and tied to each other through the multiverse.

Uh huh, then why do you keep saying that the Ultimate Guide is correct in retconing the Transformers' Origins in the cartoon? That sounds like trying to dictate something as being obsolete to me.

Shirogoshi wrote:Uh huh, then why do you keep saying that the Ultimate Guide is correct in retconing the Transformers' Origins in the cartoon? That sounds like trying to dictate something as being obsolete to me.

No, it isn't what it has done is retcon certain factors within all of them to tie them all together into a greater multiverse using infirmation established by Hasbro themselves, creating a single overriding continuity connected to sevaral alternate realities and unviverses, each inteconnected through Primus and the Original 13.

OK, seriously, Tramp, what's up here? Are you, like, just delibrately doing this to annoy people, or are you actually completely ignorant of the fact you know a hell of a lot less than you think you do? NOTHING TIES ANY TRANSFORMERS CONTINUITY TOGETHER! They're all seperate in their little blocks. There is nothing to tie them together. You've been told by every man and his dog they can't be connected to each other, so stop trying to bloody argue that point.

But even though you've been told by peopel they aren't, however, you're still trying to say they are. Seriously, Tramp, I've gone over a lot of topics you've posted in, and you do not compromise on anything. You have to be right. It's can't be "OK, maybe I'm right and maybe they're right", or "OK, I'm wrong and I apologise for that." it's "I'm right, and I'll continue arguing with people who have clearly superior Transformers knowledge than I do just to make a nuisance of myself." KNock it off, it's getting old.

Tramp, thank you for acknowleding that I'm correct about the connections. I should note that the Lithione were used in other parts of the cartoons. That said...

Firstly the Ulitmate guide is just that, an Ulitmate guide, no where on there does it state, say it's endorsed in anyway by Hasbro or has anny connections to it. Unlike say the Offical guide of Starwars, which was put together by Lucus film and published by Delray in association with DK. That's an offical guide.

You can't really cite or count on the Ulitmate guide becuase it's just that. An Ulimate guide, subject to change. The closest thing to anything offical is the Alternaters storyline published and designed by Hasbro. In it they show that there is a mutiverse and show that there's all sorts of realities. This is the closest and parallel world to the G1 continunity and our own reality. This is the one that has the most "Proof" that the mulitverse does exisit and that in various realities various types of Transformers can produce, reproduce, clone, protoform or whatever way you want to see it, create new life.

This whole debate was supposed to be about the possiblities of various ways of having a child, not trying to determine whos way is correct. That stated can we please agree to disagree civily and acknowladge what each has so far contributed.

Or are we too imature to share in the sandbox?

Yeah, but the problem is, how do you talk about something we A) know the answer to, and B) will have people like Tramp talking about Elita-1's infamous "One Night in Elita" video, which he heard about from the back of some postcard saying 'Elita one released a sex tape with Optimus.'

I mean, what kind of warped freak thinks something created from metal, transistors, computers, circuits and activated using the Matrix and/or Vector Sigma can or needs to have sex? It's ridiculous, and any sane person looks at a Transformer and think "Yup, it's a robot." Why would machines have sex?

Tramp wrote:Actually, yes, we can apply DW rules because they are considered as the main core G1 continuity based upon the Ultimate Guide which uses mainly the material found within the DW books as its source So, yes, those rules do indeed apply. Secondly, the manga are just as canon as the anime, US cartoons, and US comics. They are officially licensed and produced by Takara and its affiliates. Wikis are not reliable sources, because they have no accountability. The thing that it suniversal accross most TF continuities is that TFs have genders, romantic relationships, etc, there are examples of children in multiple sources, as well. None of this discounts the protoform method of creating new Transformers. These are all simply other methods they appear to have available to them based upon evidence found in multiple canon sources from many different continuities.

Can someone track this guy down an hit him for me please?

TRAMP, for once in your life, stop thinking you know what you're talking about. You really, really don't. You've been told by a ridiculous number of people your crappy obscure hentai comic doesn't count. It doesn't matter if Transformers have relationships. They BUILD children, they don't make children. You can have a fighting, Transfoming warrior robot with a womb. If a female Transformer has to transform, she'd crush the baby. And Dreamwave isn't the main G1 source, the ORIGINAL G1 is the definite G1 source, and some lame book that came out two or less years ago doesn't change that fact.

The fact you don't take into account ANYTHING ANYONE ELSE tells you proves you think you know more than everyone else. YOU DON'T. All you're doing is proving how LITTLE you know. You have the most knowledgable fans on the net discounting you- you have mods, you have people such as me and Counterpunch, it's RIDICULOUS how many people are arguing AGAINST you!

Damolisher, did you read Mkall's post? If not, here it is—

Mkall wrote:Rule #1 in the TF continuity, there is no solid 100% accurate continuity that everyone agrees to. Therefore it is quite possible that every theory could be right in the accepted continuity of the poster. That being said, I'm tired of seeing the "I am right, everyone else is wrong" mentality going on in this thread.

Discussions are cool; baiting and flaming are not.

Thank you

Yeah, well instead of trying to preach to others, how about you take that lead and follow it too, hm? What you call baiting, I call telling you exactly what you are. You seem to have a problem with others being 100% truthful, don't you Tramp? You don't like to face the music.

How about we all stop arguing and just post how we think Transformers could have children, and if you don't like that, leave. This is an interesting topic and (at the moment) all this thread is is one giant cyber-brawl. If all you want to do is fight, than start a tread for that and leave everyone else alone.

Thank you Whiner-tron.

Damolisher wrote:Yeah, but the problem is, how do you talk about something we A) know the answer to, and B) will have people like Tramp talking about Elita-1's infamous "One Night in Elita" video, which he heard about from the back of some postcard saying 'Elita one released a sex tape with Optimus.'

I mean, what kind of warped freak thinks something created from metal, transistors, computers, circuits and activated using the Matrix and/or Vector Sigma can or needs to have sex? It's ridiculous, and any sane person looks at a Transformer and think "Yup, it's a robot." Why would machines have sex?

Here's the thing though, there has been some indications that transformers do have something akin to sex. Rattraps many comments in the cartoon indicate that there is some sort of legitimate connections to various robots. His great Aunt Arcee, the number of times he indicated fembots at the bars. Not to mention the depiction of romantic relationships in both G1 (the Search of Alpha trion, Arcee and Springer) and later in Beast Wars (BA, SB and Cheetor triangle) and Machines (Rattrap and Botanica). Not to mention the sequence where BA and SB merged sparks. To add to this, Wheelie's story has been stated that he had parents. This is to assume that they're probably his biological parents, meaning that there had to be some sort of way for him to come about. And considering his age, this means that he was created off world of Cybertron. So that would mean that there had to be a way to created him away from Vector Sigma.

Also of note some robots in various other series have had sexual relations. Or at least things akin to it.

Agree with Whiner-tron. We all need to calm down. We're not going anywhere if we keep bickering like this.

Night Striker wrote:

Damolisher wrote:Yeah, but the problem is, how do you talk about something we A) know the answer to, and B) will have people like Tramp talking about Elita-1's infamous "One Night in Elita" video, which he heard about from the back of some postcard saying 'Elita one released a sex tape with Optimus.'

I mean, what kind of warped freak thinks something created from metal, transistors, computers, circuits and activated using the Matrix and/or Vector Sigma can or needs to have sex? It's ridiculous, and any sane person looks at a Transformer and think "Yup, it's a robot." Why would machines have sex?

Here's the thing though, there has been some indications that transformers do have something akin to sex. Rattraps many comments in the cartoon indicate that there is some sort of legitimate connections to various robots. His great Aunt Arcee, the number of times he indicated fembots at the bars. Not to mention the depiction of romantic relationships in both G1 (the Search of Alpha trion, Arcee and Springer) and later in Beast Wars (BA, SB and Cheetor triangle) and Machines (Rattrap and Botanica). Not to mention the sequence where BA and SB merged sparks. To add to this, Wheelie's story has been stated that he had parents. This is to assume that they're probably his biological parents, meaning that there had to be some sort of way for him to come about. And considering his age, this means that he was created off world of Cybertron. So that would mean that there had to be a way to created him away from Vector Sigma.

Also of note some robots in various other series have had sexual relations. Or at least things akin to it.

Exactly. And it is those things that we wish to discuss. Damolisher, you may not want to accept the concept of Transformers being capable of some form of sexual reproduction, but there is canon evidence to support it throughout the multiverse. And it is those possible methods we wish to discuss. You are welcom e to participate and put forth ideas on how it would be possible and what form it might take, but please, do not keep on spouting about it being impossible because they're machines. It is irrelevant to the discussion and is simply causing fights; none of which any of us want to deal with.

Despite what some people hear are saying, self-replicating machines are quite possible and some very (very, VERY) simplistic ones have already been made in real life: nano-bots. Nano-bots are desined to be self replicating and to create very complex machines. Given that in many of the Transformers universes (univie?) nano-bots are stated to be the bases of Transformer self repair technology and appear to be the basis of the Beast Wars/Machines proto-form technology, there is a president for it.

Given this, two Transformers could, conceivably, combine their nano-bots, containing their personalities and blue prints, and allow them to create a new transformer containing elements of both their personality’s and physical attributes, AKA, a child.

I personally don’t see the mechanism/point of a child hood period (physically speaking), but I’m willing to listen to reason.

Why they would have a childhood phase is the same reason why we and other life forms do. Childhood is the time when we learn and grow the most and the fastest. In contrast, it is also when a life form is most vulnerable, which is why nature made most babies so cute so that their parents and others of their kind would want to protect them. The more intelligent the life form, usually the more helpless the offspring and the longer the development time. Predators usually have rather helpless young at birth, and their growth takes longer because there is more to teach. This is especially true of us. The longer the life-span also plays a part. TransFormers, with their life-spans, and their complexity, have a lot of knowedge to pass on, and a lot of experience to teach. Another factor is if there were no child phase, the offspring would tear the mother apart from the inside because it would be too big. It needs to be small, either as an egg or growing within the mother because there is only so much room inside her for the offspring or eggs within her. Thus, the size of the offspring (or egg if an egg layer) is determined by her body. That small size makes them vulnerable. The more intelligent they are, typically the more vulnerable, and thus the more parental care they need.

For me I don't see how the nanites could carry dna. Or for that matter why would they when with cables and such the data could be downloaded between the two transformers. I know that they can exists, and I have no doubt that they play some part in the repair and functions of the transformers. But I highly doubt that they would create a new life form inside the body of a female transformer.

As I said, I don't think there is a child growing inside the transformer, but rather in a spark chamber until it's matured enough to be placed inside a body.

Night Striker wrote:For me I don't see how the nanites could carry dna. Or for that matter why would they when with cables and such the data could be downloaded between the two transformers. I know that they can exists, and I have no doubt that they play some part in the repair and functions of the transformers. But I highly doubt that they would create a new life form inside the body of a female transformer.

As I said, I don't think there is a child growing inside the transformer, but rather in a spark chamber until it's matured enough to be placed inside a body.

Well, what is DNA? What are genes? They are a specific code sequence, and the individual codes within that sequence, which determines everything about a life form, which is encoded within every cell within a life form. Thus, given that even we can hardwire a code sequence into a chip, and genes and DNA are really nothin mor ethan a code sequence, it would make perfect sense for a mechanoid's genetic code to also be so encoded within his or her very basic make-up on the microscopic level—in his or her Nanomachine "cells", in the very circuits and nanites which make up every part of his or her body. Thus for reproduction, it would thus be nanites which would carry a random cocktail of half the male's genetic code and a small fragment of his spark, to a single corrisponding nanite egg also containing a cocktail of half her genetic code, as well as a small fragment of her spark; and one would combine with the "egg" nanite and create a new spark as well as begin the growth and development of a new Transformer child.