The Energon Pub

[Seibertron]

I hope to do a gallery of Black Zarak before the end of the year. I bought a beautiful MIB stickers unapplied unbroken Black Zarak finally. The figure scares the **** out of me. It's one thing to have a $10 to $20 toy crumble before you that's made of gold plastic, but it's a whole other ball game with Black Zarak.

My occupation of photographing Transformers toys has me on a crash collision that could be disastrous with Black Zarak if I don't think this through carefully. I figure that the more of us that contribute ideas and suggestions, the better off we'll be and I can finally give the world an extremely detailed gallery of this very expensive Japanese exclusive figure.



My objective is to do a very comprehensive gallery of Black Zarak and causing very minimal damage to the toy, if at all possible. Here are some ideas that I've got about how to handle gold plastic syndrome. I'd love to get some feedback from you guys about these thoughts. If you have any other suggestions or ideas, please toss them my way. You might save one of the few remaining undamaged Black Zaraks from falling apart thanks to GPS.

Let me preface this whole thought process with this: I am very well aware of how fragile gold plastic is. I own just about every gold plastic figure released over the years and have had varying degrees of success and catastrophic failures with gold plastic. I am determined that there has to be a way to lessen risk of potential damage or even possibly preventing it all together by reversing the problem prior to a catastrophic event. It's plastic. There has to be a way to restore the plastic back to being malleable. Even a rock or glass becomes malleable under enough heat without breaking.



1. Don't do it! Don't do a gallery of him! Don't even think about transforming him! Hell, don't even think about looking at him wrong!

We all know this isn't going to happen. I'd even bust out the G2 Protectobots from their packages if I ever had a chance to own them. I think First Aid is made of gold plastic. It'd be a suicide mission, but I'd do it just to have a chance to have photographs of it.

2. Would a lubricant of some sort help lessen the amount of force/pressure needed to move/transform parts? What types of lubricants are OK to use on the plastics of Transformers toys? What about WD-40, baby oil, or a silicone spray? I've used WD-40 many times before but have never thought to ask if that's the best to use for a lasting lubricant.

3. What about warming up the parts in boiling or very hot water for ten minutes? 30 minutes? Something to soften up the plastic or maybe even melt the metallic flakes? Or would the plastic melt first before the flakes?



4. What about a hair dryer to soften up parts where there's a peg connector or where a peg is inserted (such as Black Zarak's shield attaching to his arm, or a gun inserting into a figure's hand)?

5. Skip the gold plastic parts and proceed directly to buying a second Scorponok, strip out the parts from Scorponok that are gold plastic on Black Zarak, and ship the parts off to Chrome Tech USA (http://www.chrometechusa.com/
) to have them gold chrome all of those parts. This achieves the proper color scheme for this toy (but the chrome will make photographing it a complete bitch) and would look beautiful or possibly a little too "bling"-ish. Has anyone had any success with having parts chromed professionally or at home? Would chroming the parts, such as the shield, make it impossible to attach the shield to his arm peg because of the added thickness from the chrome?

6. What about gold painting some Scorponok parts to closely resemble the color of the gold plastic? Are there companies that do this professionally so that the parts will look as perfect as possible?



OK, so those are my thoughts and ideas off the top of my head. PLEASE, for the love of Primus and for the sake of saving a Black Zarak, share your ideas, suggestions, thoughts, etc with me. We're smart people, let's figure out how to preserve a toy so that I can give the world a proper Seibertron.com gallery of Black Zarak at long last.

[DISCHARGE]

Gorgeous! Congrats, that is my number 1 grail I hope to own. I would contact a plastics corporation and discuss the issue, or maybe get a hold of a Hasbro plastics scientist, I'm sure they have them. What ever you do, once again congrats.

[Seibertron]

Gorgeous! Congrats, that is my number 1 grail I hope to own. I would contact a plastics corporation and discuss the issue, or maybe get a hold of a Hasbro plastics scientist, I'm sure they have them. What ever you do, once again congrats.

Thanks for the congrats! It was a secondary holy grail to me. I was on the hunt for a Grand Maximus in the right condition and price for the past fifteen years. I finally obtained Grand Maximus about two weeks ago. I wasn't planning on buying a Black Zarak but I couldn't say no because of the pristine condition the toy is (was?) in. I'll at least be able to do a very proper gallery of both of them duking it out.

[Skullcrunchberries]

It seems like you've got a plethora of good ideas already - unfortunately I can't answer any of the ones on heating the plastic or companies that paint. My only real experience with gold plastic in recent years is my G2 Slingshot, which I handle like a glass ball full of VX gas on the rare occasions I even touch it, and got an extra G1 Slingshot just so I could combine Superion without having to use him as a limb. My first one as a kid got its head broken off and stuck in Silverbolt's shoulder/arm connector :\

The only thing I can think of to suggest is maybe using latex or nitrile gloves to prevent the oils on your hands from possibly causing any further damage or weakening to the plastic? They're extremely cheap and easy to find in any pharmacy (and probably Walmart), and even if I'm wrong it can't hurt. It'll also give you much more dexterity in posing than say, trying to use tweezers or something retarded.

:edit:

Oh, a second thought, on the off chance you're not already aware: when handling the gold plastic, especially the moving parts, do your best to use your whole hand instead of just a couple of fingers. This spreads the pressure out a little more across the piece, offering a bit more stability and less chance of a piece snapping or crumbling due to too much pressure exerted on too small an area. Connection points may be tricky or downright impossible with this (his shield comes to mind), so one possibility is to lubricate the connector port and/or cover the peg (plastic wrap is an option) to reduce the amount of direct contact, and thus the "grip" the gold plastic will have on the other plastic. Even if this makes it a bit loose, as long as it stays for long enough to photograph I think it'll serve your needs.

Well, that's all I can think of, and hopefully I've given you some kind of idea and haven't just spouted a bunch of nonsense you've already thought of. Excellent find, btw - I can't wait to see the finished gallery :3

[Skyfire77]

Option 5 is your only hope (though I'd suggest gold paint rather than plating as it would look more like the original plastic). GPS is due to the plastic depolymerizing, there's nothing you can do to halt or reverse bad chemistry.

[Seibertron]

Option 5 is your only hope (though I'd suggest gold paint rather than plating as it would look more like the original plastic). GPS is due to the plastic depolymerizing, there's nothing you can do to halt or reverse bad chemistry.

Depolymerizing. Now if there was only a way to reverse or prevent depolymerization.

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&h ... 99&bih=800

[Flux Convoy]

Wow, congrats on both figures. I'd love to have a Grand Max! If BZ didn't have such fatal problems and sky high price point, I'd be chasing one of those too.

Pertaining to fixing the GPS, I don't know that it can be done. What I do know is that there is a guy on TFW2005 that goes by Darkov. He produces repro parts and makes a BZ kit that replaces the GPS bits among others. From what I hear he's reliable and makes great stuff. I know it wouldn't be your first option but it's an option. You know, Counterpunch's wife might be able to give you a little insight on this(The GPS not the repro parts). I'd ask him.

[Galvatron X]

Ryan, I think you touched on the two best methods - lubrication and heat. Anything you can do to reduce the stresses on the brittle gold plastic would be beneficial.

I would think that a tiny bit of light oil and LIGHT heat would help the joints, making posing easier.

In my experience, oils (in the long-term) will make plastic and rubber brittle, but a one-time dot of any oil wouldn't harm it, IMO.


I looked up "plastic compatible oil" and this came up:

http://www.amazon.com/Labelle-Industrie ... B001W8XD44

If you're really nervous about it (as you should be!), maybe you'd be interested in buying some of that.


Good luck - and don't ban me if something breaks!

[robofreak]

Lubricant won't do jack except for a well lubricated fracture.

Heat won't work either. The unfortunate thing about GPS is the fact that you have millions of micro air bubbles in the plastic. Apply heat, and the air will expand and in turn raise the likelyhood of a fracture.

Basically, it's a matter of time before that figure either breaks on it's own, or it becomes a sacrifice for the galleries.

I'm not trying to shoot you down here. I'm just bracing you for the reality of the situation. You have a figure that was one of the first G1 GPS blunders and no matter which way you look at it, Black Zarak is basically a well built sand castle waiting for the tide to come in.

[Seibertron]

Lubricant won't do jack except for a well lubricated fracture.

Heat won't work either. The unfortunate thing about GPS is the fact that you have millions of micro air bubbles in the plastic. Apply heat, and the air will expand and in turn raise the likelyhood of a fracture.

Basically, it's a matter of time before that figure either breaks on it's own, or it becomes a sacrifice for the galleries.

I'm not trying to shoot you down here. I'm just bracing you for the reality of the situation. You have a figure that was one of the first G1 GPS blunders and no matter which way you look at it, Black Zarak is basically a well built sand castle waiting for the tide to come in.

Fair enough ... but I can't help but think that some lubricant would help reduce friction/pressure between moving gold plastic parts. For example, Black Zarak's feet ... if you watch the following video, you can see how difficult it is for the reviewer to move one of the feet. It seems like some lubricant would help ease this problem.



It seems like any time I've had problems with gold plastic in the past it's always because I put too much pressure on a piece that wouldn't move that was made of gold plastic.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

Holy cow...

I agree that fighting GPS is the most futile thing one could ever do in the toy collecting business. Hell, I'm narrowly avoiding BW Neo Randy in favor of repainting a spare Razorbeast, and that's saying a lot.

With so many breakable parts, it's hard not to think about "cheating" by replacing them with repros for the gallery. Let's face it, that's the most viable option while preserving the value of the figure. I know there's at least a repro of Scorponok (the head) in a set of Headmaster Warrior repros. You know, the very rare ones with the sometimes wacky names?

If you do end up winging it, you have all of my respect.

[Screamfleet]

Replacement parts is the best way to go.
I'm pumped some gold plastic full of super glue before. Using baking soda, sanding, it and repainting it, it's a huge hassle. Being that it's a repaint that's the easiest solution I can see. As well as being a solid solution.

[robofreak]

That foot issue may be a issue with that Black Zarak toy in particular. Joints are different for each toy at times.

For Example, I have a Victory series Blacker whose leg joint is so tight, that you feel like it's going to break each time you transform it. I've tried everything I can think of to fix it.

A lubricant might help, but you don't know exactly what's going to happen until you pull yours out of the box and see what it's like.

For the areas where it's hollow and you can hide it, you might want to try reinforcing the plastic with a layer of Aves Apoxy sculpt.

This will only work for hollow areas though and I would need to assess the figure to see if this route is possible.

It would give you the greatest amount of strength.

[Counterpunch]

There has to be a way to restore the plastic back to being malleable. Even a rock or glass becomes malleable under enough heat without breaking.

I'm stepping aside for my wife, a PhD in chemical engineering to speak specifically on this point.

(Ph.D. in Chemical Engineering, but more importantly, I've been doing research on polymers, i.e. plastics, for the last 5 years.)

The quoted statement is not necessarily true for plastics. It depends on the reason the plastic pieces are breaking. There are two possible reasons for the plastic to become brittle over time:

First, if the plasticizers in the plastic have leached out, the plastic will become more brittle. Plasticizers are small molecules that are usually leftover in the plastic from the manufacturing process ("new car" smell actually comes from the plasticizers leaching out of the plastic parts in your car), but they are sometimes added to brittle plastics on purpose to make them more malleable.

Second, if the plastic breaks down on a molecular level, it will become more brittle. On a molecular level, the plastic is primarily made up of long polymer chains (think of a pile of spaghetti noodles). Originally, these chains are long and entangled with each other (like unbroken noodles straight from the pot), so that when you move one, you move them all. This entanglement gives the plastic its malleability; when you pull on some of the polymer chains by applying stress to the plastic, they give, but are still connected/entangled with other chains, so the plastic stays whole. However, if the plastic has degraded on a molecular level, the polymer chains have become cut (think of a plate of spaghetti where you've cut the noodles with a knife). Now, when you pull on some of the polymer chains by applying stress, they are too short to stay entangled with other polymer chains and the plastic breaks (just like if you forked out a few cut noodles, you'd only get those noodles instead of the whole pile of pasta).

So... with regards to restoring the integrity of the plastic...

If the cause is the first one (loss of plasticizers) then you could in theory heat the plastic while exposing it to a plasticizer to restore some of the malleability. However, without knowing what the plastic is (polyethylene, polystyrene, something else?) I can't make any recommendations on how to do this.

However, if the cause is the second one (polymer degradation), you're out of luck and heating the plastic could actually make it worse if it hastens the degradation process.

If it were my toy, I would definitely try to get my hands on some scrap plastic from the same era of toy-making and experiment on that first.

-Mrs. Counterpunch
----

That's the basics of the science behind it. -cp

[Screamfleet]

Wait....so your wife is like, a toy doctor? That's awesome.

[Overcracker]

Congratulations on scoring a pristine Blaxk Zarak. And ooh boy, I hope everything turns out all right with him.

I'm not sure there's much that can be done with the gold plastic, other than not moving him around much.

[Seibertron]

I have some candidates that I could try my theories with. It sounds like I'm back to lubricating the parts and finding a way to paint or chrome Scorponok parts. I emailed the company in my original post in this topic to inquire about chroming parts. Hopefully they'll respond in the next few days.

[fenrir72]

Congratulations Ryan on Black Megazarak! Awesome holy grails together with Grand Maximus.

I don't think converting his parts to chrome would help. The damage has already started from the day he got off the assembly line (which was years ago. Unless you get yourself an old junker and fabricate new parts to be "chromed".

On a related note, nearly purchased a pristine though 2nd hand Skyquake in Japan a few months ago but hesitated.......same reason with your fears of GPS.

[Dead Metal]

Buy a normal Scorponok, take him apart. Take the parts that are gold on Black Zarak and then make molds out of them, then cast them with the following:

http://www.smooth-on.com/Urethane-Plast ... index.html

http://www.smooth-on.com/Urethane-Plast ... index.html

They have step by step videos and photo galleries that should help you get exactly what you want.

It'll be the most expensive option, but probably the best.

[alldarker]

Wow... That's a very pretty pair of grails, Seibertron!
We've discussed GPS before, and I'm still interested in what happens if you heat gold plastic in a microwave. That would of course mean testing with some junker GPS affected toy and perhaps also a junker microwave!

Anyhow, for BZ, I'd definitely go with the previously mentioned tip of contacting Darkov. He does very good work with the recreation of custom replacement parts for many transformers including Black Zarak; he has the equipment AND the experience. And to be honest, he's not even that expensive. I had very good communications with him, even during a time when he wasn't able to be as productive.

EDIT: it looks like Darkov's Black Zarak parts might not be available any more

[3.8TransAM]

First off Ryan, Congrats on that bad boy. Secondly u suck I score a Fort Max and you one up me with a Grand Max followed by a Black Zarak. One day can I at least touch either of them?

I have one Darkov repro piece and depending on the plastic situation(if anything can be done at all), I would recommend that route as it probably would be your cheapest most reliable way to go looking at it for the long term..

Also, if your scared to transform Black Zarak, I will totally come out by you or u can bring it down here and I'll do it

[Seibertron]

:BOWDOWN:

Congratulations Ryan on Black Megazarak! Awesome holy grails together with Grand Maximus.

I don't think converting his parts to chrome would help. The damage has already started from the day he got off the assembly line (which was years ago. Unless you get yourself an old junker and fabricate new parts to be "chromed".

On a related note, nearly purchased a pristine though 2nd hand Skyquake in Japan a few months ago but hesitated.......same reason with your fears of GPS.

Thanks for the congrats!

I think you misunderstood the chrome discussion. I don't want to chrome Black Zarak's parts. I want to gold chrome Scorponok parts that correspond to where gold plastic is used on Black Zarak.

[Flux Convoy]

Oh sure, just ignore me. That and my shout out to CP's wife. See if I try to be helpful again. Haha.

[DREWCIFER]

Congrats on the grailz!

I have Killbison, and have only transformed him like twice. I have a KO that I use when I make LioKaiser. Sometimes, I just open the package to make sure he hasn't disintegrated into a pile of dust.

Man, it's scary business, dealing with GPS. There have been many discussions on many boards, but I do not believe that there is a way to reverse engineer the process. I looked into sealant for a little while, but since the damage is at the molecular level, all that would do is keep the outer shell together.

Your ideas are valid and may be worth while, you already spent some $$$ on the toys, so what's a little more $?

However, I think, you may be able to get away with a gallery, without, adding more $.

What are the known weak points on BZ? Obviously the Gold plastic, but every gallery that I have seen, mostly show the same breaks. Maybe we could all list them, and when you make the gallery, you try to avoid causing the breaks that are most likely to happen.

1) Mega Zarak: Arms are known to break from body.
2) Fast Track: Same as above, plus the guns are know to fracture the hands.
3) Black Zarak: The feet break at the hinges, the shield breaks at the female tab and hinges. The tab for the gun breaks once inserted. The cannons female tabs break. Laser "stinger" breaks from tail.

I am sure that there are more, and that everyone here can come with what they are.

Once we establish the weak points, just take extra special care while X-forming them. Have an exacto knife ready to cut away any burrs left from the sprue/tree-I'm thinking mostly about the feet here. Plus it may be a good idea to make sure there are no burrs in the female holes, for the cannons and shield.

Best 'o luck!

DREWCIFER

[Seibertron]

According to the very thread that you guys are linking to, Darkov is no longer a viable option unfortunately. Hopefully someone else can help me with reproducing Black Zarak parts, painting Scorponok parts to look like gold plastic, or gold chroming Scorponok parts for use on Black Zarak.