The Energon Pub

by **budmaloney** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:14 am

Hey gang, I was wondering if you might help out a noob.

I noticed there are many reissue's being sold. Are these types with the back cardboard that says " Transformers" fake? No where does the ebay ad say Hasbro or Tak. This is the link http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Transformers-G1-OPTIMUS-PRIME-Re-issue-Collection-SET-MISB-Brand-NEW-/181299474552?pt=US_Action_Figures&hash=item2a364a7078

Because I see the common Optimus reissue don't have that extra cardboard. link here http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Hasbro-Transformers-G1-Reissue-Optimus-Prime-Mint-in-Box-/321242369088?pt=US_Action_Figures&hash=item4acb898c40

Is the first link a legit thing?

by **Yotsuyasan** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:43 am

Yeah... I could be wrong, and if I am I am sure someone more knowledgeable then I will say so, but I'd say that's a fake.

The packaging looks pretty much like a copy of the G1 packaging. A reissue would have different packaging. And also, if it was a Hasbro reissue (rather then a Takara one) it would have the shortened smokestacks because of U.S. toy safety laws.

Heck, even the second one you linked to, that you posted as an example of one you're more secure about, I have my doubts on. The packaging says Hasbro, but it has Asian writing on it. Shouldn't it be a Takara release, then? And that one is pictured with shortened smoke stacks, which makes no sense if it is an Asian release of the toy.

Also, mind you it's been a while since I've shopped for a G1 Optimus, so perhaps the prices have gone down, but under $60.00 with free shipping for either of those, as MIB reissue G1 Optimus Primes being sold out of China, seems a bit too good to be true to me.

So, bottom line, I'd call them both fake. (But as I said, I could be wrong, and if someone more knowledgeable wants to say so, then awesome.)

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:33 am

1st is 90% orig while the second is a KO

News Credits: 241 · by **Jelze Bunnycat** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:39 am

The first Optimus Prime reissue: FAKE. Any US reissue Prime came in a different box and had shortened smokestacks for Toy Safety.

The second one could be legit tho. The box matches the 2002 Reissue, and so do the smokestacks, and it seems imported into China. I'd be iffy on it tho.

by **Yotsuyasan** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:49 am

fenrir72 wrote:1st is 90% orig while the second is a KO

How is it "90% orig(inal)"? Are you somehow saying that it has some reproduction part on it? If so, then the seller is a liar and shouldn't be trusted, since the description claims, "New: A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item."

Also, I could accept something as 90% original as a one-off. Say, someone comes across an almost complete G1 Prime, finds a reproduction part to replace what is missing, and clearly sells it as such. Fine. But this eBay listing was for well over 100 units! ("More than 10 available / 109 sold") I do not accept that, with that many items, the seller just happened across over a hundred G1 Optimus Primes missing (for example) a left fist, and then found a stash of over a hundred reproduction left fists. (And then is lying by calling them new and unopened, in this scenario.)

by **Yotsuyasan** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:56 am

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:The second one could be legit tho. The box matches the 2002 Reissue, and so do the smokestacks, and it seems imported into China. I'd be iffy on it tho.

How does the box match?

2002 reissue:

The auction in question:

Unless the big white box with Asian text in it is a label slapped on after the fact, rather then something printed on the box itself. I suppose there's no way to know unless someone asks the seller.

Has anyone ever seen examples of this item being imported from the US to China, and sold with such a sticker added to the back of the box, before now?

News Credits: 12 · by **GuyIncognito** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:25 pm

fenrir72 wrote:1st is 90% orig

What does that mean? They cut off 10% and replaced it?

by **budmaloney** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:58 pm

Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it.

So it is the smokestacks that determines, I didn't even notice that. The first auction looks exactly like original G1, hell I'd get it just to see how accurate it is.

The same seller is selling a fake Blitzwing, Springer, and Weirdwolf with the same type of item description and box, no Hasbro mentioned anywhere.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/171202482349?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

I guess it's no surprise they have fake Louis Vitton handbags, why not Transformers.

Honestly, I'm tempted to buy one, perhaps Optimus, just to test the authenticity. The G1 novelty look alone may be worth $60. It is a lot of money for a KO. Either way, if I get one I'll take pictures and update you guys.

Yotsuyasan wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Has anyone ever seen examples of this item being imported from the US to China, and sold with such a sticker added to the back of the box, before now?

I have seen a bunch of Rodimus commemorative editions having this exact same sticker. I asked the ebay seller and he said that is how they come. The sticker ruins the box art if it was authentic anyways.

I didn't find many KO comparisons of silver Optimus, but take a look at this youtube vid ,the box in the back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zcPIlcd5CI

Edit: This vid is very clear about the box. It's not the red Optimus but black. He goes in detail in what the differences are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqZjpouR2oE

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:03 pm

GuyIncognito wrote:
fenrir72 wrote:1st is 90% orig

What does that mean? They cut off 10% and replaced it?

Meaning, I am leaning there is 10% possibility that it is a KO.

Maybe the KOer will read this but if you check ALL the Optimus Primes/Convoys released up to 1986-1987, there is an inherent mis painting on them. In others words, it ain't perfect. In the Japanese version, the "part" I mean isn't painted all the way to the left part while the USA version, it isn't fully painted all the way to the right.

I was looking at the pics posted by the seller and given the bad lighting, I can't commit to a 100% original.

WHat is harder are those released after 1987. They don't have the blemish and their boxes (not an accurate indicator of course) don't have an area of original country printed on them. Same with the Takara embossment......all gone. Just the Hasbro and year (1984 is now covered up)

I know what I'm talking about btw. Same with a particular printing blemish on an original Fortmax USA release.

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:07 pm

Yotsuyasan wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:The second one could be legit tho. The box matches the 2002 Reissue, and so do the smokestacks, and it seems imported into China. I'd be iffy on it tho.

How does the box match?

2002 reissue:

The auction in question:

Unless the big white box with Asian text in it is a label slapped on after the fact, rather then something printed on the box itself. I suppose there's no way to know unless someone asks the seller.

Has anyone ever seen examples of this item being imported from the US to China, and sold with such a sticker added to the back of the box, before now?

That's a sticker on it for the China market. It also happened back around 1988 to 1990 where China marketed G1 TFs had a poorly printed boxes (but legit)with a Chinese character decal pasted over the english logo

News Credits: 9 · by **triKlops** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:19 pm

Just a couple educated guesses but:

The first one would automatically be a Ko as the manufacturer is listed as "21st Century Toys" .
The smokestack thing would be a giveaway as well but I am no expert and might have missed that.

The second one, with the sticker, should be a Hasbro Asia (Asia- not Japan) re-release.
This should explain the English on the package as well as the white sticker which generally relates a mainland Asia distribution. China would be the premier market in that marketing region, thus denoting the sticker text.

Again, I am no expert, so please correct me if I am wrong.

Good luck with the hunt Budmaloney!

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:14 am

I'd rather not risk buying from ebay. Especially those originating from China.

Also, concerning vintage Optimus Prime, there is a design defect on his axle. You'll know what I mean for those who on one.

News Credits: 3599 · by **Seibertron** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:19 am

budmaloney wrote:Hey gang, I was wondering if you might help out a noob.

I noticed there are many reissue's being sold. Are these types with the back cardboard that says " Transformers" fake? No where does the ebay ad say Hasbro or Tak. This is the link http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Transformers-G1-OPTIMUS-PRIME-Re-issue-Collection-SET-MISB-Brand-NEW-/181299474552?pt=US_Action_Figures&hash=item2a364a7078

Because I see the common Optimus reissue don't have that extra cardboard. link here http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Hasbro-Transformers-G1-Reissue-Optimus-Prime-Mint-in-Box-/321242369088?pt=US_Action_Figures&hash=item4acb898c40

Is the first link a legit thing?

It's a KO. The price alone should tell you all you need to know. The only reissues have been in Takara style boxes with the Takara exclusive box artwork. Even the Hasbro reissue used the Takara box artwork.

News Credits: 3599 · by **Seibertron** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:21 am

Yotsuyasan wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:The second one could be legit tho. The box matches the 2002 Reissue, and so do the smokestacks, and it seems imported into China. I'd be iffy on it tho.

How does the box match?

2002 reissue:

The auction in question:

Unless the big white box with Asian text in it is a label slapped on after the fact, rather then something printed on the box itself. I suppose there's no way to know unless someone asks the seller.

Has anyone ever seen examples of this item being imported from the US to China, and sold with such a sticker added to the back of the box, before now?

Why does the 2002 reissue have the Transformers Collector's Club on it when that didn't start until 2005?

Ah, nevermind. Reissued in Asia. Listed on BBTS at http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/prod ... ode=retail

News Credits: 3599 · by **Seibertron** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:27 am

fenrir72 wrote:1st is 90% orig while the second is a KO

The 1st one is 100% guaranteed a KO. Again, the price folks. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. These KO "reissues" have been around for since at least 2008. The market has a lot of these sub-standard KO figures in the market. You must educate yourself first if you are looking for official reissues or vintage originals.

The second one appears to be the Asia reissue of the Hasbro 2002 reissue of Optimus Prime, which explains why the Transformers Collector's Club logo is on the box. It looks like it has the light gray trailer from the 2009 25th anniversary reissue that was sold here in the States. In fact, here it is on BBTS: http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/prod ... ode=retail

by **budmaloney** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:37 am

So I bought the figure to see how KO's feel like. It was the Optimus from the first link in my original post.
It finally arrived from China.

I took some close up pictures right out of box.
Things I noticed:
- lettering in character bio were horrible, just look at "the Autobot scout car"
- neanderthal Prime
- bad plastic points all over
- smokestacks don't have clear holes
- It smelled horrible

- The figure was shoddy quality.
- It took me forever to take the trailer out of the box too.

But damn you guys knew your stuff

Thanks for the advice It helped me make a more informed decision. even if the decision was to buy the fake knowing it is a fake.

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:12 am

arrgh! You went for it? Anyway, it would make for good customs I guess. if you want an original Encore I can refer you to a legit link For an original 1980s version, well, I don't advice it because you run the risk of buying a fig that may disintegrate by simply transforming him.

Happened with my 2001 GodGinrai re-issue. He just broke apart :sad:

News Credits: 12 · by **GuyIncognito** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:46 pm

Generally speaking, if the price seems too good to be true and it's shipping from China, it's probably a KO.

News Credits: 241 · by **Jelze Bunnycat** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:50 pm

Nothing wrong with wanting to dive into KO's and bootlegs to evaluate them for yourself. Experience is the best teacher after all.

News Credits: 12 · by **GuyIncognito** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:01 pm

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Experience is the best teacher after all.

Yes, but it can be an expensive teacher!

News Credits: 241 · by **Jelze Bunnycat** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:04 pm

GuyIncognito wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Experience is the best teacher after all.

Yes, but it can be an expensive teacher!

Once you do your research and know what you're getting into, it's not so bad. Unlike that one time I unwittingly bought a KO of Sports Label Convoy (the shoe). It had all the signs too; packaging was off, low price... My wife still likes the figure, KO or not