The Energon Pub

News Credits: 668 · by **Autobot032** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:16 am

I found this picture, after a long time of searching, only to find it sitting on the Wikipedia page for the first film: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... hicles.jpg

And as you can see, all of the vehicles show their real world scale.

And when you look at your toys, you know you're screwed.

I tried so hard to make them all fit the correct scale, really look like that ensemble in the pic.

It just about fractured my brain.

The two biggest problems in the line up? Ironhide and Ratchet. They're the biggest culprits and throw everything out of whack. Not just a little, but a lot.

In the film, Ironhide is bigger than Ratchet, in robot mode.

In the toys, Ironhide's vehicle mode is slightly bigger, all the way around, compared to Ratchet. Not by much, but just enough to barely match the scale shown in the pic.

In robot mode, however, this all changes. Ratchet is quite a bit larger than Ironhide, not just height, but bulk too. I had noticed it before, but not as closely as I did tonight. I mean, there's a huge discrepancy.

So, I put my DOTM Ironhide toe to toe with Ratchet and the size difference is laughable. Just absolutely ridiculous.

Problem is, the DOTM version is leaps and bounds better than the original. He looks like Ironhide and with an accurate chest, while the original is a box of truck parts wrapped around a robot.

It made me think that perhaps I should go and get my hands on Leader Class Ironhide, because his vehicle mode is slightly out of scale, but closer to reality than any of them. His robot mode, however...yikes. He's not squat and hunched over like he needs to be, not to mention the colors are just horrendous.

So, it was at this point my brain said "Here's an idea. Take the best looking figure that's going to work and screw scale."

As soon as that incredibly obvious thought rattled around my brain, I realized I've wasted too much time and effort giving a damn about something that ultimately doesn't matter because everything is close, while not being perfect.

Would I like them to be movie accurate? Sure. Will it happen? No. This should not prevent me from enjoying great figures.

The Deluxe versions of these guys don't cut it for me. The Leader Ironhide doesn't either. What's left to me? Suck it up and deal with it, and oh by the way...I end up having great figures in my collection.

After a while, you kinda just have to go with what works for you and say "Aww screw it. This is fine. These will do."

It finally worked for me. I hope this post helps you, even just a little bit. Sometimes we focus on the things we can't change or fix, and they're also things that shouldn't ruin the experience for us.

If scale were so important, all the time, we'd all go mad trying to make it work. They're toys, it's not worth it. Enjoy them, don't go crazy over them.

Learn from my mistake.

News Credits: 1 · by **Starscream GaGa** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:39 am

Scale-wise, my collection goes something like:

Display 1: Battle Opps Bumblebee and Deluxe Chromia, Arcee, Ravage, Laserbeak

Display 2: Leader Optimus, Ironhide, Starscream, Megatron, Sentinel and Deluxe Bumblebee, Skids, Mudflap, Sideswipe, etc and Legends Ravage.

Display 3: Deluxe Optimus, Starscream and Voyager Megatron, Shockwave

Its not perfect, but its the best you can get really.

News Credits: 10 · by **gavinfuzzy** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:54 am

i never cared about scale... lol. i still display HFTD ratchet and ironhide next to buster prime and hftd BB

by **bdougwrx** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:05 am

gavinfuzzy wrote:i never cared about scale... lol.

Same here, I have all my movie figures separated by size class. Leaders on one shelf, voyager/HA on another shelf and deluxe/scouts on another.

News Credits: 4 · by **freaky777** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:03 am

bdougwrx wrote:
gavinfuzzy wrote:i never cared about scale... lol.

Same here, I have all my movie figures separated by size class. Leaders on one shelf, voyager/HA on another shelf and deluxe/scouts on another.

Yup. I just care about how the figure looks, transforms and amazing it is, scale is not really at the top of my buying priority.

News Credits: 10 · by **gavinfuzzy** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:09 am

freaky777 wrote:
bdougwrx wrote:
gavinfuzzy wrote:i never cared about scale... lol.

Same here, I have all my movie figures separated by size class. Leaders on one shelf, voyager/HA on another shelf and deluxe/scouts on another.

Yup. I just care about how the figure looks, transforms and amazing it is, scale is not really at the top of my buying priority.

Whoever is behind the maintanence and web design of seibertron.com, please add a "like" button to people post. thanks. :grin:

News Credits: 127 · by **Counterpunch** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:09 am

I can't stand DotM Ironhide. He's too thin and his arms are wacked out.

I still use the 2007 Ironhide with the head from the RotF version and the accurate cannons.

The real culprit in my opinion is Ratchet's look in robot mode. They cheat so badly to get him to slim down for that vehicle.

My set up is:

Leader RotF Prime
Voyager 2007 Ironhide
Voyager 2007 Ratchet
Battle blades BB (deluxe)
Other deluxe toys: Skids, Mudflap, Sideswipe, Jazz etc.

Autobot32, I think you gave up on the original Ironhide too quickly. The new one is so small and lanky that he just doesn't fit anywhere.

by **Cobalt Prime** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:22 am

The biggest movieverse offenders IMO would be the deluxe figures with aircraft alt modes. Figures like Breakaway, Dirge, Tomahawk, Terradive, etc are terribly out of scale; even as voyagers they wouldn't be right given the size comparison between an average car and a jet or helicopter.

I've learned to just deal with it by using my imagination.

Spongebob's voice: "With imaaaginaaation, Transformer toys are all in perfect scale!" 8-}

News Credits: 1 · by **dirk2243** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:24 am

Yeah, scale is gone. Someone should have smacked someone long ago and threw in someone who uses common sense.

To be perfect you can't narrow it down to scout, deluxe, voyager, and leader. It would have to be multiple sizes. But if your going with 4 sizes, someone with common sense should have stepped in long ago. Look at the scouts from ROTF alone. Rollbar, Depthcharge and Breacher alone are way out. And the Arcee sisters probably should have been scouts. The twins in icecream truck mode could have been done as a voyager? And demolisher...... blah. way out to lunch. And Blackout not a leader....etc, etc, etc.

But then G-1 is out too....so it's a never ending just gotta push the I believe button and enjoy em.

News Credits: 2 · by **paul053** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:28 am

If you really care about the scale, you should read this article and see the pictures, then no matter what, WE ARE ALL SCREWED.

by **Xterminator** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:58 am

I DO CARE A LOT ABOUT SCALE!

The only way I found o cope with it is to divide my Movieverse collection into sub-sets according to the best scale matching:

Sub-set 1) That's the my main display: OP, Megatron, Starscream are Leader class; Ironhide and Ratchet are Voyager class; BB, Sideswipe, Twins, Jolt , Sideways, Scorponock and Barricade are Deluxes; Legends Ravage. A Voyager Crankcase would fit here very well.

Sub-set 2) Supreme Devastator & Leader Jetfire; OP, Megatron, Fallen, Starscream, Lugnut, Mindwipe, Black-out & most constructicons are Voyager class; Ironhide, Ratchet, Rampage are Deluxe class; the Twins are Legend class.

Sub-set 3) All Human-alliance figures + Deluxe Ravage

Sub-set 4) ROTF Battle Ops BB + Deluxe Arcee, Cromia & Elita-1.

News Credits: 1 · by **Optimus1138** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:27 am

For some reason, I care a lot about scale for my Bayverse figures, but hardly at all for my Classics figures (I still don't want Windcharger because of his size, however). I'm thinking about having two Bayverse displays. One would have figures in their "main/best" size (Deluxe for cars, Leader Prime and Starscream, etc) but would not have characters like Blackout who have no figures that are anywhere near in scale. The other would have either Deluxe or Voyager Prime, Voyager Megatron and The Fallen, and figures like Blackout and Bonecrusher.

Anyway, here's what I think the best scales for figures are:

For vehicle modes:
-Voyager Prime
-Voyager Ratchet
-DOTM Voyager Ironhide
-Deluxe cars
-Leader Starscream
-Either Leader or Voyager Megatron (not DOTM, though)
-Leader Brawl

For robot modes:
-Leader Prime
-Voyager Ratchet and Ironhide
-Deluxe Cars
-Leader Starscream
-Leader Megatron (would have to be Movie 1 or ROTF, obviously)
-Leader Brawl

Characters like Blackout, Bonecrusher, the Constructicons, the Fallen, and Jetfire don't fit into this at all, which is why, fi you want to have perfect scale, a display with smaller figures, like Voyager or Deluxe Prime, is necessary.

Leader Prime is out of scale with most car figures in vehicle mode, although I think he's pretty much perfect for HA figures, as well as Leader Ironhide (Ironhide might be a tiny bit too big for him, although he'd probably be close enough for me).

However, despite how much I care about scale, I sometimes break my rules. I have HA Skids and Jazz, since they're sightly smaller than other HA figures, and their Deluxe figures aren't nearly good enough for me. I would have HA Mudflap, to, but I never found him.

by **Dean ML** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:31 am

I hear you and agree, Autobot032. Scale is almost as important as accuracy of the mold to me. The movies do cheat with scale as you noted, which makes it easier for me to live with scale discrepancies. The F-22 is three times bigger than a Peterbilt, but Prime and Starscream are roughly the same height in RotF in the forrest fight. Ironhide's size seems to shift constantly, too. Sometimes he is only just above Prime's hips in some scenes and in others he is just below his shoulders. Leader Ironhide was a disappointment for me, too, as they should've used his mass to make him squat, not lanky. Like you, I feel DotM Ironhide is the best we're going to get. Now I'm really hoping we'll get a new voyager Ratchet mold to match DotM Ironhide's size and accuracy.

Here's my collection, which is as scale accurate as I could manage...

Shelf #1: Leader Starscream and RotF leader Megatron vs. RotF leader Prime

Shelf #2: DotM deluxe Bumblebee vs. legends Ravage and deluxe Rampage, RotF voyager Ratchet and Dotm voyager Ironhide vs. voyager Mixmaster, and RotF Sideswipe and legends Arcee vs. deluxe Sideways

Shelf #3: Battleblades Bumblebee vs. RotF Barricade, RotF voyager Ironhide (in truck mode) and premium deluxe Jazz vs. premium leader Megatron (2007), though I'd LOVE to have leader Brawl for this shelf!

Shelf #4: deluxe Topspin and Roadbuster. Looking forward to adding leader Sentinel Prime, deluxe Leadfoot, deluxe Mirage, deluxe Wheeljack, and deluxe Soundwave. Really hope they eventually release a leader Shockwave, voyager Decepticon SUVs, voyager Ratchet, and legends Lazerbeak and Steeljaw.

News Credits: 9 · by **Mykltron** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:00 pm

I really want the scale to be right. My Classicsverse and Movieverse are divided into different sections. Sure, nothing is quite right, but I've got the best matches as I can manage without going mad!

News Credits: 12 · by **robofreak** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:24 pm

Counterpunch wrote:I can't stand DotM Ironhide. He's too thin and his arms are wacked out.

You startled me for a moment, but then I realized you weren't referring to the leade class version.

Scale has never been an issue for me. I just like good figures.

by **shockwavedude** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:15 pm

hasbro just put them into voyager/deluxe/leader depending on character popularity, who likes who.

For example Everyones gonna love optimus, megatron, ironhide and shockwave, dats why there voyagers.

Bumblebee became a fan fav so he is now leader, they reckon we will love sentinel so hes leader.

Deluxes: Not many people like crankcase, sideswipe, jolt, barricade etc. also dont see why deluxe starscream :BANG_HEAD:

starscreams cool

*edit* also the only figure that they have got in an almost correct size, wid deluxe skids n mudflap is dev. even for legends they did dat

News Credits: 1 · by **dirk2243** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:18 pm

Xterminator wrote:I DO CARE A LOT ABOUT SCALE!

The only way I found o cope with it is to divide my Movieverse collection into sub-sets according to the best scale matching:

Sub-set 2) Supreme Devastator & Leader Jetfire; OP, Megatron, Fallen, Starscream, Lugnut, Mindwipe, Black-out & most constructicons are Voyager class; Ironhide, Ratchet, Rampage are Deluxe class; the Twins are Legend class.

I have Devastator also, but honestly he is out of scale with himself and I use him with my legends / Cyberverse.

by **Xterminator** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:27 pm

I know, I know ... Devastator is a mess ! But that is the best place I can fit him right now.

With all his intrinsic problems, I still like him a lot. I would like to see in the future a 3rd-party company releasing Leader Class versions of his limbs. That would be huge !

News Credits: 3 · by **Midnight_Fox** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:36 pm

robofreak wrote:
Scale has never been an issue for me. I just like good figures.

This. One billion times, this.

by **decepta-scott** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:15 am

Autobot032 wrote:I found this picture, after a long time of searching, only to find it sitting on the Wikipedia page for the first film: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... hicles.jpg

And as you can see, all of the vehicles show their real world scale.

And when you look at your toys, you know you're screwed.

I tried so hard to make them all fit the correct scale, really look like that ensemble in the pic.

It just about fractured my brain.

The two biggest problems in the line up? Ironhide and Ratchet. They're the biggest culprits and throw everything out of whack. Not just a little, but a lot.

In the film, Ironhide is bigger than Ratchet, in robot mode.

In the toys, Ironhide's vehicle mode is slightly bigger, all the way around, compared to Ratchet. Not by much, but just enough to barely match the scale shown in the pic.

In robot mode, however, this all changes. Ratchet is quite a bit larger than Ironhide, not just height, but bulk too. I had noticed it before, but not as closely as I did tonight. I mean, there's a huge discrepancy.

So, I put my DOTM Ironhide toe to toe with Ratchet and the size difference is laughable. Just absolutely ridiculous.

Problem is, the DOTM version is leaps and bounds better than the original. He looks like Ironhide and with an accurate chest, while the original is a box of truck parts wrapped around a robot.

It made me think that perhaps I should go and get my hands on Leader Class Ironhide, because his vehicle mode is slightly out of scale, but closer to reality than any of them. His robot mode, however...yikes. He's not squat and hunched over like he needs to be, not to mention the colors are just horrendous.

So, it was at this point my brain said "Here's an idea. Take the best looking figure that's going to work and screw scale."

As soon as that incredibly obvious thought rattled around my brain, I realized I've wasted too much time and effort giving a damn about something that ultimately doesn't matter because everything is close, while not being perfect.

Would I like them to be movie accurate? Sure. Will it happen? No. This should not prevent me from enjoying great figures.

The Deluxe versions of these guys don't cut it for me. The Leader Ironhide doesn't either. What's left to me? Suck it up and deal with it, and oh by the way...I end up having great figures in my collection.

After a while, you kinda just have to go with what works for you and say "Aww screw it. This is fine. These will do."

It finally worked for me. I hope this post helps you, even just a little bit. Sometimes we focus on the things we can't change or fix, and they're also things that shouldn't ruin the experience for us.

If scale were so important, all the time, we'd all go mad trying to make it work. They're toys, it's not worth it. Enjoy them, don't go crazy over them.

Learn from my mistake.

I completely understand. I am having a hell of a time coming to terms with the fact that my universe prime is super tiny next to most of my other classic figs.
I have a master plan though. When I get enough figures I intend on setting up a massive battle scene and so you see I need to keep my figures to scale as best I can.
I simply cannot have an optimus prime that is a full half ince smaller (in all dimensions) leading a charge against the decepticons.
Luckily for me it will be a while until I am done with my collection. Perhaps between now and the day I am finished we will have a perfectly scaled prime for the six inch figs and you will have your bots scaled to what you deem perfect as well.
Im glad you faced and defeated your demon though.

by **Screamfleet** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:31 pm

If it seemed like a viable thing that I could work around, I'd care about it more.
Though, I'm not about buying more than one of the same guy. Like, if I get sentinel prime, it's leader or voyager, not both.
In The past, I didn't have this option. Growing up with beast wars, I just got who they had. Beast Machines started this issue with me, but, it was obviously off then. With the best nightscream coming with a happy meal.
So, Movie-universe, I can't care either. I get who I like and they size up however.

News Credits: 668 · by **Autobot032** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:47 pm

Hate to bump this, but I just finished watching ROTF and clearly, Ratchet is taller than Ironhide.

Not just in one scene, but in all of them. Heck, even Sideswipe is taller than Ironhide in robot mode! Watch the scenes after Prime's body is dropped off, and the final battle in Aqaba, and you'll see that both Ratchet and Sideswipe are taller than Ironhide.

So, I'm starting to wonder if the scale of the toys (minus their vehicle modes) is correct? (Well, except for Sideswipe.)

Just confusing and odd. I truly don't understand it.

News Credits: 9 · by **Mykltron** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:45 am

Autobot032 wrote:Hate to bump this, but I just finished watching ROTF and clearly, Ratchet is taller than Ironhide.

Not just in one scene, but in all of them. Heck, even Sideswipe is taller than Ironhide in robot mode! Watch the scenes after Prime's body is dropped off, and the final battle in Aqaba, and you'll see that both Ratchet and Sideswipe are taller than Ironhide.

So, I'm starting to wonder if the scale of the toys (minus their vehicle modes) is correct? (Well, except for Sideswipe.)

Just confusing and odd. I truly don't understand it.

Are you sure it's not because the camera is at human head height and Sideswipe is nearer the cammera?

News Credits: 668 · by **Autobot032** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:46 am

Mykltron wrote:
Autobot032 wrote:Hate to bump this, but I just finished watching ROTF and clearly, Ratchet is taller than Ironhide.

Not just in one scene, but in all of them. Heck, even Sideswipe is taller than Ironhide in robot mode! Watch the scenes after Prime's body is dropped off, and the final battle in Aqaba, and you'll see that both Ratchet and Sideswipe are taller than Ironhide.

So, I'm starting to wonder if the scale of the toys (minus their vehicle modes) is correct? (Well, except for Sideswipe.)

Just confusing and odd. I truly don't understand it.

Are you sure it's not because the camera is at human head height and Sideswipe is nearer the cammera?

No. Both times, Sideswipe is either standing behind him or nearly beside him. And at one point, Ironhide is standing straight up.