The Energon Pub

[william-james88]

Big news for Hasbro's fight against knock off (KO) toys. There has been an investigation by the Shanghai police which started back in April when Hasbro China reported on Weijiang's activities. For those unaware, Weijiang is a Chinese company that makes knock off Transformers toys. This investigation has lead to a raid of Weijiang's factories and five arrests. The charges are for allegedly designing, producing and selling counterfeit Transformers toys. We also learnt of the process. A designer would take the the official toys apart and map out the designs he would then sell to Weijiang.
You can read more about this in the following article from Shine.cn: https://www.shine.cn/news/metro/2007232766/ .

[Cheetron]

Wondered where all the knockoffs on Amazon went to overnight. Now I know and it's better for that!

[-Kanrabat-]

Look like the Weijiang toys will become rare hot collectibles pretty soon.

[Ultra Markus]

i wonder if those oversized combiner wars figures will be rare now

[LE0KING]

That's a real shame. WeiJiang took alot of the crappier hasbro designs and fixed them. They would upscale some figures, add articulation where needed, overall good things.

[sol magnus]

Welp. Hadda happen eventually.

[-Kanrabat-]

i wonder if those oversized combiner wars figures will be rare now

They will if Ebay suddenly forbid their sale and the authorities command the remaining stocks to be destroyed. This is the most likely scenario.

I wonder if it's just Weijiang that is affected, or is it all the KOs? Because I ordered yesterday the undersized MP-10V trailer for a custom and it would suck if I could no longer receive it despite the thing being marked as shipped.

[DeathReviews]

I think Hasbro is just jealous because some fly-by-night losers can make the toys bigger and better than THEY can...

[sol magnus]

I think Hasbro is just jealous because some fly-by-night losers can make the toys bigger and better than THEY can...

By reverse engineering their designs? Are you joking or is this a "blame the victim" thing?

[-Kanrabat-]

I think Hasbro is just jealous because some fly-by-night losers can make the toys bigger and better than THEY can...

By reverse engineering their designs? Are you joking or is this a "blame the victim" thing?

I think it's the usual troll-n-run tactic.
Replying nonsense via the news article without ever entering the thread, and never replying to anything afterward. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Gauntlet101010]

I don't buy many KOs, but I've bought a couple. So I guess I feel bad for the KO people since they really did make some good toys ... out of designs they outright stole.

A part of me is a bit more tempted to get the oversized combiners while I can find them easily. But that's the relentless consumerist in me.

[DeathReviews]

I think Hasbro is just jealous because some fly-by-night losers can make the toys bigger and better than THEY can...

By reverse engineering their designs? Are you joking or is this a "blame the victim" thing?

Hasbro's got their "Masterpiece" line for high end stuff - except they keep remaking those too. If the normal figures weren't lacking, then 3rd party enhancement companies (and their dark cousins the "KO" outfits) wouldn't have such a huge market. Sure it's better to buy the official merchandise. But it's also better when the official merchandise is made with enough quality that nobody would bother with 3rd party and KO figures....

[sol magnus]

I think Hasbro is just jealous because some fly-by-night losers can make the toys bigger and better than THEY can...

By reverse engineering their designs? Are you joking or is this a "blame the victim" thing?

Hasbro's got their "Masterpiece" line for high end stuff - except they keep remaking those too. If the normal figures weren't lacking, then 3rd party enhancement companies (and their dark cousins the "KO" outfits) wouldn't have such a huge market. Sure it's better to buy the official merchandise. But it's also better when the official merchandise is made with enough quality that nobody would bother with 3rd party and KO figures....

The guy above you would disprove part of your thesis. He buys them not because of quality at all - but because they're oversized versions of Hasbro figures. If Hasbro is "jealous", they'd be right to be, since they are literally selling their stuff and not getting a cut of it.

I don't buy knock-offs. I will buy the occasional 3rd party figure to fill in a collection gap, but I always get the official of any character I do this with. We can debate the merits of IP infringement in both cases, but with the knock-offs it's indefensible. With 3rd party figures, Hasbro isn't actually losing any money (in my case).

[Burn]

Not to mention the investment (time, money, etc) Hasbro has put into each figure, something the KO companies don't have to worry about as reverse engineering is a lot easier than engineering from scratch.

But hey, I'm sure people will still find a way to hate on Hasbro for it, I'm sure if they had something they created stolen they might think otherwise.

[-WonkoTheSane-]

If the normal figures weren't lacking, then 3rd party enhancement companies (and their dark cousins the "KO" outfits) wouldn't have such a huge market.

Exactly. I was just looking across their oversized combiners about a week ago.
My Combiner Wars Superion, For example, Looks downright puny next to Combiner Wars Devastator (As do all of the other combiners, Really).
As you can see from my profile picture, I really like the IDW designs and characters. If Hasbro made more figures of them, 3d party stuff (Like MMC, For example) wouldn't need to exist. This ties back into the combiner thing; I'm not the only one dissatisfied with the size difference, Thus, A company made oversized ones. I'll not get into the legality, But it's simple supply vs demand. If theres a void in a market that a company isn't filling, Someone else will always fill that void. Hasbro can play wack-a-mole forever, But it's like Hydra. Cut off one head, Two more shall grow back.
The only way for Hasbro/Takara to if not permanently stop this, But at least slow it down a bit, Would be to try to fill that void, Lest others inevitably will.

[-Kanrabat-]

Not to mention the investment (time, money, etc) Hasbro has put into each figure, something the KO companies don't have to worry about as reverse engineering is a lot easier than engineering from scratch.

But hey, I'm sure people will still find a way to hate on Hasbro for it, I'm sure if they had something they created stolen they might think otherwise.

Exactly.

It's pretty damn easy to say "HASBLOW MAED CRAP!" when Hasbro/Takara have to...

-- Develop the toy from scratch.
-- Then having a specific limited budget for each toy.
-- And having to deal with safety measures dictated by the laws of so many countries worldwide.

The KO company don't have to deal with any of those points. It's piss-easy to improves things when you don't have to invent anything and having no limitations.

[Regimus Prime]

Good riddance to bad rubbish. Like I've said before when we were discussing the Haslab Unicron vs. whatever copy cat 3rd party option is out there, I really don't see this counterfeit producing and embracing culture in other fandoms like MOTU, Star Wars or G.I. Joe. It's completely frowned upon and you'd be ridiculed to no end if you even tried it in the sneaker head culture. Knock off J's? Pffft!!! GTFOH! But in Transformers fandom, it's welcomed. I don't understand how online retailers like BBTS, TF Source and others carry the official products and the blatant rip off 3rd party figures. The 3rd party companies make some good products, why not create their own lines and market them with accompanying media such as cartoons, comics, video games and movies? Oh, I know, it's much cheaper and far more convenient to lat the official license holder make that investment and then capitalize on it.

[-Kanrabat-]

Good riddance to bad rubbish. Like I've said before when we were discussing the Haslab Unicron vs. whatever copy cat 3rd party option is out there, I really don't see this counterfeit producing and embracing culture in other fandoms like MOTU, Star Wars or G.I. Joe. It's completely frowned upon and you'd be ridiculed to no end if you even tried it in the sneaker head culture. Knock off J's? Pffft!!! GTFOH! But in Transformers fandom, it's welcomed. I don't understand how online retailers like BBTS, TF Source and others carry the official products and the blatant rip off 3rd party figures. The 3rd party companies make some good products, why not create their own lines and market them with accompanying media such as cartoons, comics, video games and movies? Oh, I know, it's much cheaper and far more convenient to lat the official license holder make that investment and then capitalize on it.

I'll give you the TlDr:

3P =/= KO

[o.supreme]

I've only purchased one KO, and it was just recently. I see a lot of people here talking about over sized CW combiners. I think the ones released by TT/Hasbro were very well done for the most pat, it's just that Devastator and Predaking were too big IMHO (they are great toys, and I purchased them, just not to scale with anything else other than other Titans). Better to shrink two combiners, than try to purchase 20+ larger ones. So I just bought Taikongzahns undersized Devastator, and it is actually pretty good.

Not like the $10 combiners original series rips that used to sell at flea markets 10-15 years ago that would literally fall apart when you tried to transform them. I'm still hoping for an undersized Predaking. But we'll see.

I don't expect TT/Hasbro to please all of the fans all of the time, that would be impossible. So since there's always someone that's going to be "I'd rather this toy be "Y", than "X", (bigger, smaller, different colors, different accessories etc...) it's likely some 3P or KO is going to make it, if enough people ask for it.

[Burn]

I'll give you the TlDr:

3P =/= KO

Exactly.

3P, while I don't buy it, only "steals" the character likeness, they do their own design and engineering.

KO just steals everything, does a bit of reverse engineering, slaps together some molds, pours in some questionable plastic, bit of assembly and toss it out there as either a KO, or, and this is what shits me the most, the genuine article.

[-WonkoTheSane-]

Better to shrink two combiners, than try to purchase 20+ larger ones. So I just bought Taikongzahns undersized Devastator, and it is actually pretty good.

Huh. Quite short sightedly, I honestly didn't think of that. Thats a pretty good idea, One I think I'll look into.

[zhaobinis1]

Not sure if this is mentioned, but "Black Apple" himself was arrested as well in this police raid.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Wonko, by majority it's Devy and Predaking who are outsize - the others aren't too small, those two are too big. I mean, yeah, they're at the mass-shifted colossus size from the cartoon and Omega Supreme is made to match. But it's at the cost of being out of whack with their fellows, the individual Predacons and Constructicons being oversize, and being available only as expensive Titan-class giftsets which there's only room for so many of at a time.
I suppose those upsize combiner components had some purpose, but the other oversize stuff just feels like pointless bloat..


Ahem.
On the one hand, Weijiang did make some improvements to HasTak's official designs.
On the other hand, they stole those designs - they didn't do the real work, they only polished it marginally. From HasTak's perspective it's like someone plagiarizing their homework and then getting extra credit because they fixed some typos. Extra bad when it's presented as legit merch.



That being said... I hope the non-Weijiang bootlegs avoid this bullet for now. Especially the non-oversize Combiner Wars KOs. After all, KOs of discontinued stuff like that aren't competing with HasTak - they're competing with the secondary market. And I have zero problem buying a KO when the legit option is "Buy it secondhand or off a reseller for triple or more the retail price".

[-WonkoTheSane-]

and toss it out there as either a KO, or, and this is what shits me the most, the genuine article.

That has always been the most bothersome aspect to me. I remember a few years ago, I went on an MP buying spree on Ebay (Mostly just buying the ones I missed, As I'd fallen behind somewhat on the releases) And it was nearly impossible to find authentic ones. If you looked close enough on the box, Some were labeled in the corner, Using Takara's familiar brand logo , As "Takasa Tony" (Presumably Takara Tomy's less successful cousin ) And other times they'd just use Takara's stock photos, And call it authentic (Even when it wound up not being.) I remember contacting sellers before buying, Asking nicely if the products were KOs, Whereupon the response would usually be angry and belligerent. One of the nicer ones, I remember, Was something to the effect of "If you have any questions or inquiry's, Don't buy from us"
Yikes.
It's one thing to make KOs that people willingly buy, But entirely another trying to deliberately fool people.
That's not cool.

[Toizarus]

I'll give you the TlDr:

3P =/= KO

Exactly.

3P, while I don't buy it, only "steals" the character likeness, they do their own design and engineering.

KO just steals everything, does a bit of reverse engineering, slaps together some molds, pours in some questionable plastic, bit of assembly and toss it out there as either a KO, or, and this is what shits me the most, the genuine article.

While it's correct to say that the two forms of theft are different, 3P putting a lot more effort into what they do, it is still theft, which I believe is the comparison OP was making. This is exactly why the Core Star Unicron was Cease & Desisted last year, and why Hasbro has every right to go to every 3P provider that creates replicas of HasTak IP and do the same, not just the companies banging out direct knock-offs.

I own a handful of 3P and, yes, the same in knock-offs (some deliberately, a couple not) but I've never deluded myself that I'm doing anything other than supporting outright IP theft, something that no other industry in the world tolerates. So I'm not going to point fingers at KOs while hoping 3P somehow escapes notice. Just imagine if over the last decade all the money that had been funnelled into just 3P product alone had gone to Hasbro instead - what Transformers might now exist that don't because Hasbro budgets didn't quite stretch that far?

Anyone who buys or sells non-official TF product is complicit in stealing HasTak IP and those profiting from it are possibly now in for a very rude awakening. I reckon we recipients might have some adjusting to do as well if, as an example, websites start banning posts of this kind of product.