The Energon Pub

[El Duque]

The official Transformers YouTube channel has uploaded a new Beast Bites video titled "A Beast Hunters Music Track". It's a new take on the classic Transformers cartoon theme, check out the video embedded below.

Check out this original music track for the Transformers Beast Hunters story like you've never "heard" it before. You may even see some new moves from your favorite Autobots, Decepticons and even Predaking! For more Beast Hunters go to http://www/Transformers.com/beasts.

[Slashercon]

I got a mild Unicron trilogy feel with that music track.

[Mkall]

Meh, I can see them trying to make parallels to the original G1 theme song, but it was mostly unoriginal and flat.

[Bumblevivisector]

I got a mild Unicron trilogy feel with that music track.

Agreed. The backbeat was similar to the intense version of the TF theme that started popping up in Armada about halfway through.

The recycled animation was funny, but somehow not Predaking's antics. Maybe the belching made him seem like less of a real threat, driving home the fact that the series proper never had more than one beast that needed huntin'? Still, the mentions of Predacons plural make the current timing appropriate, as a promo for the upcoming movie.

Nice to get some new lyrics. And a mere half decade after Animated's bold experiment with that new couplet! Just don't push it too far, or we'll end up with more of that G2 rap music.

Oh yeah, cool video overall!

[Doubledealer93]

my god this sucks.

[griftimus prime]

lame. focus on making a better show. not this crap

[Sabrblade]

More exciting than the show's actual theme song, at least.

Just change the lyrics to the more traditional "Transformers"-themed words, and change the visuals to something more action/epic-based instead of comedy-based, and we'd have something worth using in a TF cartoon.

[Metrosuplex]

This video reminds me of a wise quote: "He who chases two hares catches neither."

The G1 aspect is aimed at adult collectors (or arguably teens who enjoy retro-G1 TFs), while the video (and "Beast Bites" presentation) is aimed at CHILDREN.

How do you try and please adults AND children at the same time? The goofy, spastic "dancing" of the TF's in the video may please children, but it looks incredibly stupid to most discerning adults who, frankly, have seen a lot better done with a lot less effort/budget.

Personally, this is where I see the main problem with Prime - the show is clearly darker and more adult-themed than previous TF shows, but it seems like management (COUGHHASBROCOUGH) is trying to make it more "kid-friendly". It's like turning a bloody biker gang into an amusement park attraction: it just don't work!

Hasbro and TF Prime crew: get your priorities straight. Don't make a Star Wars and add Jar Jar Binks to get the children to buy toys. If that's your entire goal, you might as well make it the Jar Jar show and stop pretending you are remembering the collectors/fans!

This clip made me lose a TON of respect for Prime. I remember someone telling me (on this site) that Prime had integrity and came before the toys. HAHAHAHAHA. But hold on, Hasbro said that Prime stood on its own and wouldn't be a toy-selling-machine, right? This is why I caution everyone not to take a corporation's word so seriously. Hasbro is perfectly content to sit in one panel and tell you fans that Prime is for collectors only, while simultaneously hosting a children's panel and telling them it's all about kids and screw the adults!

[Mkall]

More exciting than the show's actual theme song, at least. :roll

I disagree.

The Show's theme presents an aura of epicness to the characters it represents. There's the majestic opening for the noble Autobots, and then the harder 2nd movement where the Decepticons come into it and create tension.

This sounds like a couple people riffing simple chords on guitars and auto-tuning their lyrics.

[Sabrblade]

How do you try and please adults AND children at the same time?

Beast Wars and Animated managed to do just that.

Personally, this is where I see the main problem with Prime - the show is clearly darker and more adult-themed than previous TF shows, but it seems like management (COUGHHASBROCOUGH) is trying to make it more "kid-friendly". It's like turning a bloody biker gang into an amusement park attraction: it just don't work!

What about all the comedic moments in the show like Knock Out scrubbing himself in "Hurt" and Starscream disco dancing in "Patch"? Both audiences enjoy the show's funny parts.

This clip made me lose a TON of respect for Prime.

Why? Hasbro's just having some fun. No harm in that.

I remember someone telling me (on this site) that Prime had integrity and came before the toys. HAHAHAHAHA. But hold on, Hasbro said that Prime stood on its own and wouldn't be a toy-selling-machine, right? This is why I caution everyone not to take a corporation's word so seriously. Hasbro is perfectly content to sit in one panel and tell you fans that Prime is for collectors only, while simultaneously hosting a children's panel and telling them it's all about kids and screw the adults!

For as long as the Transformers brand has been around, the name of the game has always been, and always will be, to sell children's toys and to make money off of them.

And, the idea of TF: Prime originally going to having no toyline is a falsehood. Here's the actual explanation:

The toy line for Transformers: Prime was very delayed, debuting roughly a year after the associated cartoon had premiered. Previously, at a BotCon 2010 panel about the then-upcoming Prime cartoon, a Hasbro representative had made a statement that they weren't talking about toys just then. Transformers fandom being what it is, a widespread belief developed that Hasbro was never going to make Prime toys at all. As additional information gradually surfaced, this evolved into a rumor that Prime would only have a small number of toys, with some further speculating that they would also be limited to the Deluxe size class (since initially only Deluxes had been seen). The eventual revelation of a full Prime toyline caused the belief to evolve once more, with the new theory being that there wasn't originally going to be a Prime toyline, but Hasbro changed their minds due to demand.
The reality, as usual, was much less apocalyptic. The statement from the Hasbro Studios panel was never intended to refer to anything except the panel itself—the people in that room weren't going to be discussing toys at that panel. (In fact, Eric Siebenaler expressed excitement about Bulkhead's toy at the very same panel.) As for the delay in the line's launch, put simply, this was for appearance's sake. Hasbro wanted to establish Prime as a strong fictional franchise, rather than merely a glorified toy commercial, and reasonably concluded that launching a toyline immediately would detract from that goal. There was a point when a few Prime toys were planned to be released under the Transformers: Generations banner, but since Generations is exclusively Deluxes, the aforementioned Bulkhead (a Voyager) indicates that this idea had already been abandoned when the rumors started.
In short, this is just a matter of fans jumping to conclusions based on misinterpreted statements.

[Sabrblade]

More exciting than the show's actual theme song, at least. :roll

I disagree.

The Show's theme presents an aura of epicness to the characters it represents. There's the majestic opening for the noble Autobots, and then the harder 2nd movement where the Decepticons come into it and create tension.

This sounds like a couple people riffing simple chords on guitars and auto-tuning their lyrics.

I'll give you that on the second version that we got in season 3, but the seasons 1-2 opening just felt so mellow and calm, as though, if I were to listen to it while in a hot tub, it would feel appropriately soothing and relaxing.

This one, however, has some energy to it, with some hints of life and excitement.

[Bumblevivisector]

More exciting than the show's actual theme song, at least. :roll

I disagree.

The Show's theme presents an aura of epicness to the characters it represents. There's the majestic opening for the noble Autobots, and then the harder 2nd movement where the Decepticons come into it and create tension.

This sounds like a couple people riffing simple chords on guitars and auto-tuning their lyrics.

I'll give you that on the second version that we got in season 3, but the seasons 1-2 opening just felt so mellow and calm, as though, if I were to listen to it while in a hot tub, it would feel appropriately soothing and relaxing.

This one, however, has some energy to it, with some hints of life and excitement.

We can probably all agree that the original theme left some room for improvement. For example:

[VirusCarnage]

When I first read the title I thought it was going to be the BH soundtrack. I was wrong

I really hope they do release it one day.

[Sabrblade]

We can probably all agree that the original theme left some room for improvement. For example:

I remember that, yeah.

Though it is cool, I've often wondered how "Till All Are One" would fit as theme song.

[Metrosuplex]

How do you try and please adults AND children at the same time?

Beast Wars and Animated managed to do just that.

Actually, BW was a Hodge-podge of experimentation. I think it'd be more accurate to say that SOME episodes appealed more to children than adults, and vice versa. I watched the entire series recently on Netlix, and I can tell you it veers drastically between episodes in terms of theme and tone. Plus, you know, that energon-farting episode which (at this point) you can argue as for or against the adult-collectors. Irregardless, BW is a good example of how you cannot grab both audiences at once: it does, after all, ping pong between kiddy episode and adult episodes.

Can't really say much on Animated, as I didn't get a chance to watch it yet!

Personally, this is where I see the main problem with Prime - the show is clearly darker and more adult-themed than previous TF shows, but it seems like management (COUGHHASBROCOUGH) is trying to make it more "kid-friendly". It's like turning a bloody biker gang into an amusement park attraction: it just don't work!

What about all the comedic moments in the show like Knock Out scrubbing himself in "Hurt" and Starscream disco dancing in "Patch"? Both audiences enjoy the show's funny parts.

You say that like it's enough example - but if you watch the remix above, you'll note they don't have too many stupid moments to capture on, and so, must instead rely on horrible, twitchy cuts played in loops.
A few sophomoric or juvenile jokes in Prime does NOT prove it can capture both audiences - it proves the opposite.

This clip made me lose a TON of respect for Prime.

Why? Hasbro's just having some fun. No harm in that.

I suppose putting Optimus in a prom dress would also be categorized as "fun", but I find it just a little... I don't know... stupid? I guess there's nothing wrong, as you say, with making Prime stupider... unless, of course, you find that annoying. Prime was a pretty well-written, serious drama that often exceeded its own pedigree. Yeah, you can make stupid clips out of it, but doing so really dilutes the caliber of the show. Or to put it in another way, it's always sad to see a beloved show whoring itself for better ratings. If Prime did stupid clips like that regularly, I would applaud the marketing team for properly presenting the program to prospective audiences; however, if you've NEVER SEEN THE SHOW, this sort of clip is tasteless and an incredibly injustice to the quality of Prime.

Hasbro wanted to establish Prime as a strong fictional franchise, rather than merely a glorified toy commercial, and reasonably concluded that launching a toyline immediately would detract from that goal. There was a point when a few Prime toys were planned to be released under the Transformers: Generations banner, but since Generations is exclusively Deluxes, the aforementioned Bulkhead (a Voyager) indicates that this idea had already been abandoned when the rumors started.
In short, this is just a matter of fans jumping to conclusions based on misinterpreted statements.

I agree with most of what you said, if you didn't understand the post you were reacting to. The point at which I have HIGH DOUBTS is when you say "Prime should be established, then toys." Yeah, whatever Hasbro says is true is not necessarily true: there's simply no reason to delay a toy line for a premiering show, as demand is like a burst of fire - it goes out as quickly as it ignites (especially if it has nothing to burn on). I.e. it would behoove ANY company to publish the toys as soon as the cartoon hit (or close to) in order to capitalize on any demand created by the program; on the other hand, it makes little sense to make fans wait an entire year in order to sell them toys they wanted MONTHS AND MONTHS ago. Most people (GASP) will spend their disposable income regardless of whether or not the product they want is available - i.e. money that could be spent on Prime toys will be spent on other toys.
Anyway, long story short, it's much more believable to say that something got f*cked up at Hasbro development and either the factories were slow or the toy development was so slow that the toys got here ONE YEAR LATE. But I sincerely do not believe that Hasbro would purposefully wait a year to make Prime toys - maybe they decided they had too much on their plate with other TF toys and non-TF toys, wanted to cut factory costs, and just delayed it out of a fiscally sound point of view. They do pay for factory lines and production, and current economic conditions dictate a more conservative approach to manufacturing: why not spin it as "let's give Prime integrity because it's sooooo not a toy-selling-machine! Sooooo not! Come on, guys! We don't do that!"

[bluecatcinema]

That's not bad, actually. I like the restyled lyrics.

[Red 50]

Well, here's the deal: The first thing I did today was to get myself a cup of coffee and then log in here, Seibertron.com, where the first thing I did was to watch that remix or what-ever. I laughed at most of it and it really lit up the rest of my day.

So whoever made the vid and whoever uploaded it - I thank you all. You made my day.

[Sabrblade]

Actually, BW was a Hodge-podge of experimentation. I think it'd be more accurate to say that SOME episodes appealed more to children than adults, and vice versa. I watched the entire series recently on Netlix, and I can tell you it veers drastically between episodes in terms of theme and tone. Plus, you know, that energon-farting episode which (at this point) you can argue as for or against the adult-collectors. Irregardless, BW is a good example of how you cannot grab both audiences at once: it does, after all, ping pong between kiddy episode and adult episodes.

Back in its heyday, it received critical appraisal from the adult fanbase (eventually, after the "Trukk not Munky" nonsense died down), and kids loved it (I was part of that age group then).

You say that like it's enough example - but if you watch the remix above, you'll note they don't have too many stupid moments to capture on, and so, must instead rely on horrible, twitchy cuts played in loops.
A few sophomoric or juvenile jokes in Prime does NOT prove it can capture both audiences - it proves the opposite.

The comedic moments didn't have to be over-the-top levels of campiness to be funny. Starscream and Knock Out were practically a hoot for 80% of the time they were on screen. Even the stiffs Ratchet and Agent Fowler get moments of hilarity at times where they come out of their shells.

And you can't deny Smokescreen brought elements of childlike fun and endearment ever since he first arrived.

I suppose putting Optimus in a prom dress would also be categorized as "fun",

Okay, now you're just being ridiculous. A jestful dance number is nowhere the same as distasteful crossdressing.

but I find it just a little... I don't know... stupid? I guess there's nothing wrong, as you say, with making Prime stupider... unless, of course, you find that annoying. Prime was a pretty well-written, serious drama that often exceeded its own pedigree. Yeah, you can make stupid clips out of it, but doing so really dilutes the caliber of the show. Or to put it in another way, it's always sad to see a beloved show whoring itself for better ratings. If Prime did stupid clips like that regularly, I would applaud the marketing team for properly presenting the program to prospective audiences; however, if you've NEVER SEEN THE SHOW, this sort of clip is tasteless and an incredibly injustice to the quality of Prime.

Why are you being such a hardcase over something that's not meant to be taken seriously at all? Do you not think that the show is self-confident or secure enough in itself to be able to poke fun at and humble itself in a good-natured act of nonseriousness? It's not like it's making every character take a dump in front of the audience or strip down for some sick attempt at grossness. It's just dancing! The Autobots danced back in episode 8, remember?

I agree with most of what you said, if you didn't understand the post you were reacting to. The point at which I have HIGH DOUBTS is when you say "Prime should be established, then toys." Yeah, whatever Hasbro says is true is not necessarily true: there's simply no reason to delay a toy line for a premiering show, as demand is like a burst of fire - it goes out as quickly as it ignites (especially if it has nothing to burn on). I.e. it would behoove ANY company to publish the toys as soon as the cartoon hit (or close to) in order to capitalize on any demand created by the program; on the other hand, it makes little sense to make fans wait an entire year in order to sell them toys they wanted MONTHS AND MONTHS ago. Most people (GASP) will spend their disposable income regardless of whether or not the product they want is available - i.e. money that could be spent on Prime toys will be spent on other toys.
Anyway, long story short, it's much more believable to say that something got f*cked up at Hasbro development and either the factories were slow or the toy development was so slow that the toys got here ONE YEAR LATE. But I sincerely do not believe that Hasbro would purposefully wait a year to make Prime toys - maybe they decided they had too much on their plate with other TF toys and non-TF toys, wanted to cut factory costs, and just delayed it out of a fiscally sound point of view. They do pay for factory lines and production, and current economic conditions dictate a more conservative approach to manufacturing: why not spin it as "let's give Prime integrity because it's sooooo not a toy-selling-machine! Sooooo not! Come on, guys! We don't do that!"

For what it's worth, that body of text was not mine. I was quoting the explanation given on TFWiki's "Misconceptions and urban legends about Transformers".

[Metrosuplex]

Back in its heyday, it received critical appraisal from the adult fanbase (eventually, after the "Trukk not Munky" nonsense died down), and kids loved it (I was part of that age group then).

I think you mean "appraise", not "appraisal". To be honest, I still don't quite get why adults loved this show so much. The show seemed very schizophrenic to me. It was fun, sure, but it just lacked a cohesion that made the show stand out for me. That is to say, I'm not sure what the central theme was supposed to be, other than "let's go out and have fun with TF's! BLAST SOME PREDACONS!" I mean, half of the fan-love, IMO, seems to be for the quirky dialogue ("YESSSS!").

The comedic moments didn't have to be over-the-top levels of campiness to be funny. Starscream and Knock Out were practically a hoot for 80% of the time they were on screen. Even the stiffs Ratchet and Agent Fowler get moments of hilarity at times where they come out of their shells.

And you can't deny Smokescreen brought elements of childlike fun and endearment ever since he first arrived.

But all that you describe is more ADULT humor than child humor. Where are the Energon fart jokes, for example?

Smokescreen... so if a character is a little green and eager, he's automatically for the kids? I hate to disagree on this, but he is not a kid. If they wanted to appeal to kids like that, wouldn't a Wheelie-type of character fit the bill better? That is, why not make Smokescreen smaller and more kid-friendly/kid-like? I'm not sure he's intended for kids at all, though I do see kid-appeal in the adult character. Back in the day, you could actually market to kids with adult programming because kids like adult things. But nowadays? There are clear lines - so when you say these things appeal to kids, it's really not meant to (in a way). I mean, the show is still aiming for teen/adults, and catching some kids (sure), but that's not a show meant for kids. Still waiting for the Energon fart jokes!

I suppose putting Optimus in a prom dress would also be categorized as "fun",

Okay, now you're just being ridiculous. A jestful dance number is nowhere the same as distasteful crossdressing.

Hold on... I wouldn't be so against the idea. Cross-dressing, as "distasteful" as it may appear to you, is actually very common in British humor. Ergo, putting him in a dress wouldn't be "ridiculous" so much as it would be a little British. You really don't see how making Optimus do a stupid twitch dance is not similar to wearing a dress? Does Optimus ever dance? Stupidly?

Why are you being such a hardcase over something that's not meant to be taken seriously at all? Do you not think that the show is self-confident or secure enough in itself to be able to poke fun at and humble itself in a good-natured act of nonseriousness? It's not like it's making every character take a dump in front of the audience or strip down for some sick attempt at grossness. It's just dancing! The Autobots danced back in episode 8, remember?

Maybe because the clip felt cheap and badly made? But hey, maybe you're right: what possible harm could there be in making bad products or bad media snippets of a GOOD show? Surely they could do worse, right? And showing concern for junk-food churned out by a AAA restaurant is overboard, I guess.

For what it's worth, that body of text was not mine. I was quoting the explanation given on TFWiki's "Misconceptions and urban legends about Transformers".

I appreciate you disowning the quote, even if you perpetuated it. I guess I'm asking this: if you don't REALLY agree with the quote or support it specifically, why are you quoting it?

This is just what I'm talking about: a lot of board peeps here like quoting stuff and referring to quotes as facts, simply because they're published quotes. I've said it before: a lot of people lie in public; there are plenty of reasons to lie in public, even if you represent a corporation such as Hasbro.

Anyway, thanks for the replies and know that I'm not trying to troll you specifically. I'm just raising some concerns I have, and no, I don't REALLY care that much about this Prime clip. I've noticed your presence on this site a lot, and you're one of the more respectable members on here!

[Sabrblade]

I think you mean "appraise", not "appraisal".

Indeed.

To be honest, I still don't quite get why adults loved this show so much. The show seemed very schizophrenic to me. It was fun, sure, but it just lacked a cohesion that made the show stand out for me. That is to say, I'm not sure what the central theme was supposed to be, other than "let's go out and have fun with TF's! BLAST SOME PREDACONS!" I mean, half of the fan-love, IMO, seems to be for the quirky dialogue ("YESSSS!").

Well, to use another TFWiki quote:

The show won over many viewers through fun, intriguing stories and generally high production values. Strong characterization, top-notch scripting and voice acting, and complex, overarching plot threads are among the reasons cited for the show's enduring popularity. Some of the show's mysteries and machinations remain topics for fan debate over a decade after it aired.

The G1 references also didn't hurt.

But all that you describe is more ADULT humor than child humor. Where are the Energon fart jokes, for example?

"Energon fart jokes"? Children aren't immune to clean-toned humor.

Smokescreen... so if a character is a little green and eager, he's automatically for the kids? I hate to disagree on this, but he is not a kid. If they wanted to appeal to kids like that, wouldn't a Wheelie-type of character fit the bill better? That is, why not make Smokescreen smaller and more kid-friendly/kid-like? I'm not sure he's intended for kids at all, though I do see kid-appeal in the adult character. Back in the day, you could actually market to kids with adult programming because kids like adult things. But nowadays? There are clear lines - so when you say these things appeal to kids, it's really not meant to (in a way). I mean, the show is still aiming for teen/adults, and catching some kids (sure), but that's not a show meant for kids. Still waiting for the Energon fart jokes!

He's no different from other kid-appeal characters like Hot Rod, Cheetor, Side Burn, Wedge, Hot Shot, Ironhide (Energon), and Bumblebee (Animated), who were all "green and eager" teenager-type bots. That is the very mold used to create the common kid-appeal character in TF cartoons.

The only exceptions to this are G1 Bumblebee (who was a good boy and not rambunctious), Wheelie (who was a childbot instead of a teenbot), Movie Bumblebee (who was more of a youthful adult instead of a teen), ROTF Skids and Mudflap (who were just... ugh), and Prime Bumblebee (who, like his Movie counterpart, was also more like a youthful adult instead of a teen)

Hold on... I wouldn't be so against the idea. Cross-dressing, as "distasteful" as it may appear to you, is actually very common in British humor. Ergo, putting him in a dress wouldn't be "ridiculous" so much as it would be a little British. You really don't see how making Optimus do a stupid twitch dance is not similar to wearing a dress? Does Optimus ever dance? Stupidly?

I meant in this particular case it would be distasteful since it would be more humiliating than Optimus to dance a bit.

Some might even LIKE it if Optimus loosened up enough to do a jig or two. I can't tell you how many people complained about this Optimus being so dull and stoic as to be overbearing in his formality. Having him lighten up and relaxing every now and then would do him some good.

Maybe because the clip felt cheap and badly made? But hey, maybe you're right: what possible harm could there be in making bad products or bad media snippets of a GOOD show? Surely they could do worse, right? And showing concern for junk-food churned out by a AAA restaurant is overboard, I guess.

No one's expecting it to win any awards or anything. It's just a quick 70-second gag not meant to be anything great or special at all.

I appreciate you disowning the quote, even if you perpetuated it. I guess I'm asking this: if you don't REALLY agree with the quote or support it specifically, why are you quoting it?

When did I say I disagree with the explanation?

This is just what I'm talking about: a lot of board peeps here like quoting stuff and referring to quotes as facts, simply because they're published quotes. I've said it before: a lot of people lie in public; there are plenty of reasons to lie in public, even if you represent a corporation such as Hasbro.

I think I need to go back and look at your previous post, since I think I missed something.

I agree with most of what you said, if you didn't understand the post you were reacting to. The point at which I have HIGH DOUBTS is when you say "Prime should be established, then toys." Yeah, whatever Hasbro says is true is not necessarily true: there's simply no reason to delay a toy line for a premiering show, as demand is like a burst of fire - it goes out as quickly as it ignites (especially if it has nothing to burn on). I.e. it would behoove ANY company to publish the toys as soon as the cartoon hit (or close to) in order to capitalize on any demand created by the program; on the other hand, it makes little sense to make fans wait an entire year in order to sell them toys they wanted MONTHS AND MONTHS ago. Most people (GASP) will spend their disposable income regardless of whether or not the product they want is available - i.e. money that could be spent on Prime toys will be spent on other toys.
Anyway, long story short, it's much more believable to say that something got f*cked up at Hasbro development and either the factories were slow or the toy development was so slow that the toys got here ONE YEAR LATE. But I sincerely do not believe that Hasbro would purposefully wait a year to make Prime toys - maybe they decided they had too much on their plate with other TF toys and non-TF toys, wanted to cut factory costs, and just delayed it out of a fiscally sound point of view. They do pay for factory lines and production, and current economic conditions dictate a more conservative approach to manufacturing: why not spin it as "let's give Prime integrity because it's sooooo not a toy-selling-machine! Sooooo not! Come on, guys! We don't do that!"

Okay, now that I've read through that more thoroughly, I think there's a bit of a mix up here. First of all, by the time the Prime cartoon rolled around, the DOTM toyline was still releasing new toys and taking up the majority of the toy shelf space, what with it being the main line of the year at that point. And seeing as how the DOTM toyline is still lingering to this day ( ), I get the feeling the delay wasn't purposely instigated by Hasbro, but by the retailers wanting to sell off their existing product before shifting over to the next line, which took quite a while based on how hard it seemed to be for the DOTM toys to finally get off the shelves. There's also the factor of the Prime toyline being the first main line that wasn't a movie line, so the stores might have been hesitant to make the switch over so soon since they see the movie lines as being more successful and likely thought that they could squeeze out more money from the DOTM line before dropping it (their favoritism of the movie lines is also partly the reason why many of the final Reveal the Shield toys got skipped by the main retail stores and were forced into Market Six stores like Ross and TJ Maxx). What makes matters worse is how the Prime First Edition toys barely made it to U.S. stores, with only three Deluxes actually showing up at TRU stores in 2011, which DOTM's presence also seemed to have a hand in. Thankfully, the switch over to the Prime Robots in Disguise in 2012 finally commenced, but one would think that Hasbro would have wanted it to happen sooner and not have had DOTM stick around for as long as it had has.

On a similar note, the Animated toyline also came out long after its cartoon started, hitting the shelves during the Summer of 2008, despite the first and second season having already (almost) run their course. What could have been the cause of this case? Well, the Movie 1 toyline from 2007 was still lingering, and had not one but two subline imprints of toys to sell ("AllSpark Power" and "Premium Series").

Anyway, thanks for the replies and know that I'm not trying to troll you specifically.

No prob, Bob. These kinds of intellectual back-and-forths happen here often between various members. It's just how it is and we have to make the most of it.

I'm just raising some concerns I have, and no, I don't REALLY care that much about this Prime clip. I've noticed your presence on this site a lot, and you're one of the more respectable members on here!

Likewise. you've had some pretty good posts, yourself.

[Dead Metal]

What's with all the demand for fart jokes to make a show more kids orientated? Since when are fart jokes the bee all end all of children's shows?
Or do we live in the world of South Park now and Terrence and Phillip are the greatest children's entertainers ever?
Why did a silly and fun clip that has nothing to do with the show itself or have any bearing on the brand whatsoever spark a debate on what's appropriate for children and what isn't?
Why do I need to type in so many questions?
All this and more will be revealed once pigs can fly - or will it?

[njb902]

What's with all the demand for fart jokes to make a show more kids orientated? Since when are fart jokes the bee all end all of children's shows?
Or do we live in the world of South Park now and Terrence and Phillip are the greatest children's entertainers ever?
Why did a silly and fun clip that has nothing to do with the show itself or have any bearing on the brand whatsoever spark a debate on what's appropriate for children and what isn't?
Why do I need to type in so many questions?
All this and more will be revealed once pigs can fly - or will it?

I only know this, if they do start to fly we will all need to invest in highly durable umbrellas

[Sabrblade]

When I was growing up, children's shows had to have humor that was of good taste and not gross out stuff in order to abide by the standards and practices of the networks that aired them. FOX, UPN, WB, PBS, ABC, CBS, the earliest days of Nick/Disney/CN, all had (and some still have) high moral ethics to their BSnP related to their children's programming, requiring that the jokes be clean and inoffensive (Ren & Stimpy, notwithstanding, for some reason). Slapstick comedy, so long as it wasn't gruesome, was also acceptable. But anything suggestive was usually only mild and only for "Parental Bonus".

The fact that Beast Wars got away with some things back like Rhinox's fatal flatulence, when it was censored by various networks for other content, is a little surprising. On the other hand, though it did happen, the visuals did keep most of it off screen, like zooming in on Megatron's reaction to it, or showing an exterior shot of the Earth in space during it, rather than showing Rhinox's butt crack up close. And that kind of humor was also very far and few in that show, with the aforementioned Rhinox moment pretty much being the only major case.

[Metrosuplex]

I think you mean "appraise", not "appraisal".

Indeed.

Actually, you were right and I was wrong. "Appraisal" is correct, even though it sounded wrong to me... like, how sometimes you say a word and it doesn't feel right? Anyway, sorry about that! I thought you'd catch my erroneous correction, though!

Well, to use another TFWiki quote:

The show won over many viewers through fun, intriguing stories and generally high production values. Strong characterization, top-notch scripting and voice acting, and complex, overarching plot threads are among the reasons cited for the show's enduring popularity. Some of the show's mysteries and machinations remain topics for fan debate over a decade after it aired.

The G1 references also didn't hurt.

"High production values" is an ironic statement, as they don't look too "high" by today's standards: i.e. that point only proves BW as a time-specific piece to be forgotten by spoiled, future generations!
Strong characterization? I agree with that.
Scripting and voice acting = dialogue choice - I mentioned that. It does not really refer to horrific plot and generally bad writing throughout. By that, I mean there really was no over-arching plot tying the entire series - i.e. you'd be hard pressed to summarize the show in a couple of sentences, as the show... really didn't have a central theme, IMO.
Wait, "complex over-arching plot threads"???? WTF??? Hardly. There were some mysteries, but if you don't develop them properly, fan-boy debate is hardly a consolation or proof of good writing. It's like talking about a monster that never showed up - that may intrigue the lesser mammals, but I can tell when the writers ran out of space (and that's poor planning) or ideas (and that's lack of creativity). If you mention a monster, I want to be wowed, not distracted and then have the monster be dropped completely. I guess, specifically, I'm referring to how badly the "other force" was explained and portrayed, culminating in a rather confusing and unnecessary manifestation of Unicron (but not REALLY Unicron, so... who cares?).

"Energon fart jokes"? Children aren't immune to clean-toned humor.

"Aren't immune" does not = laughter. Those "children" who aren't "immune" tend to be the outliers, whereas most of them enjoy a good fart joke. I mean, if 10 out of 100 kids laugh at an adult joke, it's proving what I'm saying, even though, yes, you are correct that some children do laugh at adult humor (whether or not they understand what they're laughing at - the writer-intended joke, that is - is an entirely different, psychological matter).

He's no different from other kid-appeal characters like Hot Rod, Cheetor, Side Burn, Wedge, Hot Shot, Ironhide (Energon), and Bumblebee (Animated), who were all "green and eager" teenager-type bots. That is the very mold used to create the common kid-appeal character in TF cartoons.

The only exceptions to this are G1 Bumblebee (who was a good boy and not rambunctious), Wheelie (who was a childbot instead of a teenbot), Movie Bumblebee (who was more of a youthful adult instead of a teen), ROTF Skids and Mudflap (who were just... ugh), and Prime Bumblebee (who, like his Movie counterpart, was also more like a youthful adult instead of a teen)

So you agree? "Blunt" is the king of communication. Believe me, kid-friendly characters will be portrayed as kids (most of the time). I mean, Anakin Skywalker in SW. No, this is more of a yesterday versus today: yesterday, teenagers could be aimed at kids; today, kids are aimed at kids. That's my point. So yes, your points are true... yesterday. I think marketing is just more direct today, and we have "Raf" for the kids, with his friendly, non-threatening, mute servant BB.

I meant in this particular case it would be distasteful since it would be more humiliating than Optimus to dance a bit.

Some might even LIKE it if Optimus loosened up enough to do a jig or two. I can't tell you how many people complained about this Optimus being so dull and stoic as to be overbearing in his formality. Having him lighten up and relaxing every now and then would do him some good.

A stupid dance does not re-write a bad character, especially when the dance is for a stupid promo. I know where you're coming from, as I hate Grandpa Optimus, too... but this dance does not fix Grandpa Optimus. Instead, it shows him to be a Hollywood whore (that is: all show, no integrity). The dress idea? That's next!

No one's expecting it to win any awards or anything. It's just a quick 70-second gag not meant to be anything great or special at all.

Mission accomplished - it's embarrassing and the kind of special only your mom talks about.

When did I say I disagree with the explanation?

So you agree with the quote and think the quote is proof? I have no idea what one liners like this mean!

I think I need to go back and look at your previous post, since I think I missed something.

Yeah, some things are lost in translation from delayed, board communication. Seibertron should consider a chat room?

Okay, now that I've read through that more thoroughly, I think there's a bit of a mix up here. First of all, by the time the Prime cartoon rolled around, the DOTM toyline was still releasing new toys and taking up the majority of the toy shelf space, what with it being the main line of the year at that point. And seeing as how the DOTM toyline is still lingering to this day ( ), I get the feeling the delay wasn't purposely instigated by Hasbro, but by the retailers wanting to sell off their existing product before shifting over to the next line, which took quite a while based on how hard it seemed to be for the DOTM toys to finally get off the shelves. There's also the factor of the Prime toyline being the first main line that wasn't a movie line, so the stores might have been hesitant to make the switch over so soon since they see the movie lines as being more successful and likely thought that they could squeeze out more money from the DOTM line before dropping it (their favoritism of the movie lines is also partly the reason why many of the final Reveal the Shield toys got skipped by the main retail stores and were forced into Market Six stores like Ross and TJ Maxx). What makes matters worse is how the Prime First Edition toys barely made it to U.S. stores, with only three Deluxes actually showing up at TRU stores in 2011, which DOTM's presence also seemed to have a hand in. Thankfully, the switch over to the Prime Robots in Disguise in 2012 finally commenced, but one would think that Hasbro would have wanted it to happen sooner and not have had DOTM stick around for as long as it had has.

On a similar note, the Animated toyline also came out long after its cartoon started, hitting the shelves during the Summer of 2008, despite the first and second season having already (almost) run their course. What could have been the cause of this case? Well, the Movie 1 toyline from 2007 was still lingering, and had not one but two subline imprints of toys to sell ("AllSpark Power" and "Premium Series").

Ahhh, excellent. See, that makes more sense to me than the lame Hasbro rep excuses. The movie lines stuck on the shelves like old, hard gum... well, the proof of that is undeniable. We will have giant garbage dumps of these unsold movie toys, right next to Bart dolls and AOL trial discs!

Anyway, thanks for the replies and know that I'm not trying to troll you specifically.

No prob, Bob. These kinds of intellectual back-and-forths happen here often between various members. It's just how it is and we have to make the most of it.

To be fair, GuyIncognito accused me of trolling on a future news post, so my fear was not unfounded. I appreciate these back and forths, but some loud minorities tend to destroy intelligent discourse with obnoxious accusations like that. So... yeah, I'm pretty irritated with the Seibertron boards, to be honest.

I'm just raising some concerns I have, and no, I don't REALLY care that much about this Prime clip. I've noticed your presence on this site a lot, and you're one of the more respectable members on here!

Likewise. you've had some pretty good posts, yourself.

[/quote]
THANKS! But I'd be remiss to leave out that I've noticed your particular focus is on correcting and/or providing unsolicited information to other members. Sometimes it's awesome, other times... ehhh, unnecessary. I mean, if I say fishing nets hurt intelligent fish like dolphins, it's not necessary for you to correct me and say, "mammals". Really, the point was on the nets... but the correction derails that, doesn't it?

[Metrosuplex]

When I was growing up, children's shows had to have humor that was of good taste and not gross out stuff in order to abide by the standards and practices of the networks that aired them. FOX, UPN, WB, PBS, ABC, CBS, the earliest days of Nick/Disney/CN, all had (and some still have) high moral ethics to their BSnP related to their children's programming, requiring that the jokes be clean and inoffensive (Ren & Stimpy, notwithstanding, for some reason). Slapstick comedy, so long as it wasn't gruesome, was also acceptable. But anything suggestive was usually only mild and only for "Parental Bonus".

The fact that Beast Wars got away with some things back like Rhinox's fatal flatulence, when it was censored by various networks for other content, is a little surprising. On the other hand, though it did happen, the visuals did keep most of it off screen, like zooming in on Megatron's reaction to it, or showing an exterior shot of the Earth in space during it, rather than showing Rhinox's butt crack up close. And that kind of humor was also very far and few in that show, with the aforementioned Rhinox moment pretty much being the only major case.

Censorship is not really a factor of the era, but rather of the people (arguably from said era). I offer this idea: you can have a more liberal censorship board in any era that might allow more things than a conservative censorship board (or maybe it has more to do with who is running the censorship board/organization - the man on top). Ren & Stimpy, most likely, got away with it because someone liked the show OR it was seen as a big enough money-maker to be allowed through (i.e. you have to grease some palms). That's not to say that there weren't banned episodes - I believe at least one Ren & Stimpy episode was banned from TV. And I remember one of my favorite episodes (when they pretend to be babies in order to have the "easy" life) got removed from the reruns - I don't understand why, either, as it wasn't any more offensive... . Wait, I remember now: it portrayed the family taking a censored, but naked bath together (ma, pa, and babies), so maybe the censors thought it was too graphic???

The Rhinox fart episode was actually entertaining and clever because they didn't make it so gross. I appreciate your crediting the censorship, but I like to think it was one of the better written episodes - maybe we're both right and it was the writers being brilliant in their avoidance of censorship while telling a silly story.

Back to censorship today... I blame the video games. Seriously. Video games take a lot more heat than TV, so I think it's easier to pass crap on TV. Literally! It's all about the money - graphic and crude sells well, and while the politicians and parents set their cross hairs on evil video games, TV gets away with showing bare ass on national broadcast channels.

But hey, how can we NOT think back on the simpler days of yesteryear and not feel some melancholic nostalgia. I guess I would say that the speed of technology is aging us faster than our forefathers.

It's pretty alarming to say things like, "When I was a kid..." at our age demographic. Unless you're really 80. I tip my hat to you, Grandpa!