What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

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What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:28 am

The Agenda - Arguably the biggest love letter to G1 onscreen to date. While Season 2 of Beast Wars featured some of the best Transformers stories ever told: Code of Hero, Transmutate etc It was the Finale that gave the ultimate pay off to fans of old. Back then for the first time we were shown the Ark and Most of it's occupants, in CG for the first time (That ugly old G2 intro to Sunbow repeats doesn't really count). More than that we saw a Megatron that did the unthinkable.. follow through with a plan and it actually succeeded.

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"Say goodbye to the universe, Maximals! The future has changed, yessssss. The Autobots lose! Evil triumphs! And you...YOU NO LONGER EXIST!"


:APPLAUSE: I cheered! He did it. Megatron had won. Not just the Beast Wars, but the Great War too by proxy.

I was reeling at the possibility of the next season. Would it be set on Cybertron? Earth? Would we still follow the Predacons or would Megatron's actions have meant the Decepticons endured until the BW era?
Obviously there would be a small "ragtag" group of Autobot/Maximal survivors. Which BW toys would form this New Cast? Would they know time was altered? Would the Vok come into play? Would they mirror the beginning of Season One, with this ragtag band on the run trying to fix what Megatron had done?


So much amazing potential, so many new possibilities. A true fresh start for a series that was going from strength to strength.

All this in mind you can imagine how "thrilled" I was when they completely squandered all of that potential and through plot contrivance, resolved the immediate danger in a single episode. They would come back to it by the finale but to me the damage had been done. Season 3 was a near total reverse on the momentum built up with the previous season and even following on the Beast Machines they never delivered on the premise on offer through The Agenda.

If only they did, what a season that might a been.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby ZeroWolf » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:20 pm

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
Actually it would have caused a universe destroying paradox. After all if the decepticons won and the predacons were never established, then who went back in time to kill optimus to ensure that the decepticons won? Bw megs couldn't have done it as he would never have existed and normal megatron would never have told anyone to go back in time, after all, if he did there would have been someone else there to destroy optimus!

That however is still ignoring the biggest elephant in the room which is Unicron, with out the matrix (which no decpticon could open) then the chaos bringer destroys everything thus there's no one to travel back in time to destroy prime...

A final thing though, the episode is perfect as it is because of the loop hole that optimus spark survived, megs would have got what he wanted if not for that (which as I pointed out above was probably a good thing)
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby Daniel Adkins » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:49 pm

Well, technically we did see what happened. It was called Beast Wars: Uprising. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Beast_Wars_Uprising
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby Rodimus Prime » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:10 pm

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ZeroWolf wrote:Actually it would have caused a universe destroying paradox. After all if the decepticons won and the predacons were never established, then who went back in time to kill optimus to ensure that the decepticons won? Bw megs couldn't have done it as he would never have existed and normal megatron would never have told anyone to go back in time, after all, if he did there would have been someone else there to destroy optimus!

That however is still ignoring the biggest elephant in the room which is Unicron, with out the matrix (which no decpticon could open) then the chaos bringer destroys everything thus there's no one to travel back in time to destroy prime...

A final thing though, the episode is perfect as it is because of the loop hole that optimus spark survived, megs would have got what he wanted if not for that (which as I pointed out above was probably a good thing)
I second this in its entirety, especially the last paragraph. I will say, however, that season 3 of Beast Wars could have been better, if they kept the focus on the events of The Agenda entirely, or at least much more closely. Also, I don't think Transmutate was good at all. It was one of the worst episodes, and the series didn't have many bad ones. And I understand the need to market new toys, but I also think the series would have been better if not as many new characters were introduced and the originals didn't undergo so many changes. I really dislike the Transmetals. That's one of the reasons I liked Rhinox, Waspinator and Inferno more than the others. They never changed. I really liked Megatron as well, but it would have been better if he went from T-Rex straight to dragon.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby ZeroWolf » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:28 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
I would of preferred it to be either fuzors or transmetals and then give it the full attention, it might of gave more money to be allocated to new characters.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:24 am

ZeroWolf wrote:Actually it would have caused a universe destroying paradox. After all if the decepticons won and the predacons were never established, then who went back in time to kill optimus to ensure that the decepticons won? Bw megs couldn't have done it as he would never have existed and normal megatron would never have told anyone to go back in time, after all, if he did there would have been someone else there to destroy optimus!


A Paradox, exactly. Think about that.. Instead of Season 3 opening with Optimal Situation it was instead Time Wars Part 1. The Agenda paid homage to Sunbow, Time Wars would have paid homage to the G1 comic.

This is why I thought the Vok would have played a key role in Season 3. Think about it, throughout Season One and two Megatron hadn't been confronted by the Vok directly, only through their machines, this action would have crossed that line. It would have been the Tigerhawk episode, but fully fleshed out over a season.

ZeroWolf wrote:That however is still ignoring the biggest elephant in the room which is Unicron, with out the matrix (which no decpticon could open) then the chaos bringer destroys everything thus there's no one to travel back in time to destroy prime...


Depends on the Unicron. Sunbow Unicron was indifferent to Cybertron (He was merely the creation of a monkey after all :roll: ) Also, who is to say Starscream wouldn't have pulled off a similar coup and Megatron wouldn't have found himself adrift in space...

Plus, other than being spoken, has the "Decepticons can't open the Matrix" ever been physically shown in canon?


ZeroWolf wrote:A final thing though, the episode is perfect as it is because of the loop hole that optimus spark survived, megs would have got what he wanted if not for that (which as I pointed out above was probably a good thing)


Cataclysmic and fatal damage was shown to have been done by Megatron to Optimus Prime in Part 3 of The Agenda. Fast Forward to Optimal Situation. His head was only a little singed and fixed with a Macguffin bucket (Never once shown in G1) being put on his "damaged" head. It didn't mesh well with the previous episode events in the slightest. It was along the same lines as Inferno being vaporised by a Raw Energon explosion, only to walk out of the cave completely unharmed.

Rodimus Prime wrote: I second this in its entirety, especially the last paragraph. I will say, however, that season 3 of Beast Wars could have been better, if they kept the focus on the events of The Agenda entirely, or at least much more closely. Also, I don't think Transmutate was good at all. It was one of the worst episodes, and the series didn't have many bad ones. And I understand the need to market new toys, but I also think the series would have been better if not as many new characters were introduced and the originals didn't undergo so many changes. I really dislike the Transmetals. That's one of the reasons I liked Rhinox, Waspinator and Inferno more than the others. They never changed. I really liked Megatron as well, but it would have been better if he went from T-Rex straight to dragon.


First off, Great Name. One of only two Autobots I actually like.

I think with the Transmetals they should have gone all or nothing. There was no real reason why Rhinox and Waspinator should have been left out (Waspinator's Transmetal toy was actually pretty awesome)It also would have made it even more poignant if Dinobot was the only one not to become Transmetal. Making him completely "obsolete" in his own mind.
Plus, discounting the skates, Transmetal Megatron was one of the best designs in the show. TM Primal.. not so much.
The Fuzors were a wasted opportunity as well. Considering they only ever gave us two and they were two of the worst characters in the entire series. Depthcharge was the only new design from Season 3 I actually liked.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby ZeroWolf » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:47 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
First off, we know why some transmetals designs weren't used, budget. It costs a lot to model and then to rig character's for 3d animation, this is why in the live action movies the cast expanded each time. As much as I agree that it would have been to see more toy only designs in the show, it sadly was not to be...unless mainframe was somehow able to get a lot of money together.

Now on to the other points:

Unicron being indifferent...yeah that's not accurate at all. Unicron started attacking cybertron as soon as be was sure it's last defence (the matrix) was rendered useless. He wanted cybertron gone. After all this is what Simon Furman built on, to create a rivalry between primus and Unicron.

Also worth noting that beast wars referenced both the toon and the comics as the Vok were heavily hinted to be the reformatted Swarm from G2.

Cataclysmic damage? Unless Optimus primes body completely exploded then there's no issue as his spark is what was important.

Now on to paradoxes, my interepatation is that as soon as the paradox happens that's it, there wouldn't have been a season three to explore this idea as reality would of tore itself apart. The writers for bw knew what they doing when they did it and resolved it
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:08 am

ZeroWolf wrote:Now on to the other points:

Unicron being indifferent...yeah that's not accurate at all. Unicron started attacking cybertron as soon as be was sure it's last defence (the matrix) was rendered useless. He wanted cybertron gone. After all this is what Simon Furman built on, to create a rivalry between primus and Unicron.


As I said, it depends on what Unicron would have been used. None of what you say really applied to Sunbow Unicron. He only attacked Cybertron due to Galvatron's attempt at betrayal. He wanted the Matrix destroyed, because it could destroy him.. Because unexplored reasons
ZeroWolf wrote:Also worth noting that beast wars referenced both the toon and the comics as the Vok were heavily hinted to be the reformatted Swarm from G2.

I am aware, however, much like "Unicron's Spawn", what was said in unused documents and interviews is largely redundant if it was never expressed directly in the show.

ZeroWolf wrote:Cataclysmic damage? Unless Optimus primes body completely exploded then there's no issue as his spark is what was important.

The attack created a temporal storm, that is pretty cataclysmic. Considering the size and power of the blast (shown onscreen) Megatron hit Prime with, his head and perhaps upper torso too should have exploded, along with his spark being at least damaged. The Temporal storm, full power energy blast hit and mortal wound don't gel with the "boo-boo" he was sporting in Optimal Situation.

ZeroWolf wrote:Now on to paradoxes, my interpretation is that as soon as the paradox happens that's it, there wouldn't have been a season three to explore this idea as reality would of tore itself apart.


Target 2006 says otherwise. That being from Transformers canon on time paradoxes too. How I understood it is that each such time "event" generates a crack in reality. Depending on it's severity equates to the size of the damage to time and space.

Future character killing past character generally would splinter time and the paradox usually generates an alternate reality in most fiction. It wouldn't have ended reality but reality would have been heavily damaged, hence the Vok would have had to proactively address it.

ZeroWolf wrote:The writers for bw knew what they doing when they did it and resolved it

By the end of Season 2, I would have agreed with you. By the same time in Season 3, no.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby ZeroWolf » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:50 pm

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
But did they take target 2006 into account? After all it was said in interviews after the fact that bw was set in a timeline where some events from the cartoon and comics happened. You're presuming like I did what's cannon and what's not. So let's look at just the show. So the shot happens and the time storm starts, as you say in most other fictions this is where there would be a split (like IDW where it's been established that changing timelines creates new universes that are parallel to each other...like dragonball z with its take on time travel) if that were the case there wouldn't be a time storm as their future would still exist, it's just that megs actions would of caused a new one. However, because we see a time storm it becomes clear that there's going to be a rewrite, and with it a paradox as megs couldn't of gone back in time to kill optimus as the original megatron wouldn't have needed anyone to kill op as he was already dead. So thanks to primal and co, disaster is averted...and primal gets a nifty upgrade. So yeah the writers knew what they were doing...it's just that you didn't like the direction you wanted :-) but to be fair, megs achieved his goal of taking over cybertron in beast machines.

As for Unicron, in the Movie he was already targeting cybertron (remember the moons? Galvatron hadn't betrayed him yet) when galvy upset him, he turned to robot mode to prolong the planet (and Galvatron) suffering. As I said, Unicron wanted cybertron gone, regardless of what Galvatron did. I would think that if galvy played along he would be to Unicron what the silver surfer was to galactus.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:26 pm

ZeroWolf wrote:But did they take target 2006 into account? After all it was said in interviews after the fact that bw was set in a timeline where some events from the cartoon and comics happened. You're presuming like I did what's cannon and what's not. So let's look at just the show. So the shot happens and the time storm starts, as you say in most other fictions this is where there would be a split (like IDW where it's been established that changing timelines creates new universes that are parallel to each other...like dragonball z with its take on time travel) if that were the case there wouldn't be a time storm as their future would still exist, it's just that megs actions would of caused a new one. However, because we see a time storm it becomes clear that there's going to be a rewrite, and with it a paradox as megs couldn't of gone back in time to kill optimus as the original megatron wouldn't have needed anyone to kill op as he was already dead. So thanks to primal and co, disaster is averted...and primal gets a nifty upgrade. So yeah the writers knew what they were doing...it's just that you didn't like the direction you wanted :-) but to be fair, megs achieved his goal of taking over cybertron in beast machines.


I'm not saying Target 2006 had any basis behind the temporal storm of The Agenda. They have nothing in common, in canon or otherwise. Again, interviews after the fact are superfluous unless they contain information stated in the show.
What I'm saying is that the results of time paradoxes have already been explored before and it doesn't end in the erasure of reality.
The temporal storm would have birthed the new alternate reality, it was a distortion of time and space. The storm itself merely being a visual indicator of Time trying to right the paradox. Unable to do so, it would splinter.
Basically after Megatron's speech, scene fades out, comes back and we are in the new reality.

And no the writers didn't know what they were doing, regardless of individual preferences. The quality of writing rose dramatically midway through Season 2 and plummeted just as quickly for Season 3, on par with Season 1. That's not a good indicator of reassurance.


ZeroWolf wrote:As for Unicron, in the Movie he was already targeting cybertron (remember the moons? Galvatron hadn't betrayed him yet) when galvy upset him, he turned to robot mode to prolong the planet (and Galvatron) suffering. As I said, Unicron wanted cybertron gone, regardless of what Galvatron did. I would think that if galvy played along he would be to Unicron what the silver surfer was to galactus.


Unicron's dialogue and actions indicates complete indifference to Cybertron, the moons again were a demonstration to Galvatron, of who is in charge.

Galvatron: "How dare Unicron! Cybertron and all it's moons belong to me!"
*Cue torture*
Scourge: "But remember, we belong to Him"
Galvatron:"I belong to nobody!"


Galvatron: Unicron, my master... with this, I shall make you my slave.
*Unicron Roars*

Galvatron: Unicron! Unicron! Answer me! See this, the Matrix. I now possess that which you most fear.
*Unicron Roars (again)*
Galvatron: You'll do my bidding or taste my wrath!
Unicron: You underestimate me, Galvatron.
Unicron:"For a time, I considered sparing your wretched little planet, Cybertron. But now, you shall witness... its DISMEMBERMENT!"
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby ZeroWolf » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:45 pm

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
Target 2006 just shows that Furman explored the idea...other shows also explore the idea with different results which means it's down to the writers preference. They are only beholden to what they do. If they wanted the time storm to show that megs idea would of eradicated reality as we know it (remember this is from the person behind all the failed season 1 and season 2 plots, the way he could conquer cybertron is through off screen writing where they just gave it to him) then that's what it was supposed to represent. It seems as though we are arguing in circles at this point; you are of the opinion that the writers squandered an idea, while I believe they knew what they were doing and pulled it off quite well, I didn't see any problem with the season 3 writing and enjoyed it (while I'll agree season 2 is where the show hit it's stride, Season 1 isn't a mess and still runs rings around the best of G1...which isn't hard in my opinion)

Before I agree to disagree, Unicron, while I admit I forgot the part about sparing the planet I still think he wanted the planet gone as the bit about the moon doesn't really prove he did it to taunt galvy, it more looks like galvatron running his mouth off.

Still this is assuming that it's the toon Unicron (although I've never known how the club fiction sorted that bit about Unicron being created by primacon and him being a singularity in the multiverse and constantly going after primus)

@gobots that is actually complicated as they've don't own the cartoon rights (I.e. the fiction) as there still with warner bros and the original molds for the toys belong to Bandai (who own machine robo) so all hasbro have is names
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:12 am

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ZeroWolf wrote:Unicron being indifferent...yeah that's not accurate at all. Unicron started attacking cybertron as soon as be was sure it's last defence (the matrix) was rendered useless. He wanted cybertron gone. After all this is what Simon Furman built on, to create a rivalry between primus and Unicron.
That’s not entirely accurate, And based on unicRoma own words he did seem indifferent about cybertron

He only started attacking the planet after Galvatrons attempted betrayal failed , And based on his own words he considered sparing cybertron

As for Unicron, in the Movie he was already targeting cybertron (remember the moons? Galvatron hadn't betrayed him yet) when galvy upset him, he turned to robot mode to prolong the planet (and Galvatron) suffering. As I said, Unicron wanted cybertron gone,

I don’t see how the moons help your argument in fact they seem to hurt

Do you remember the first planet he destroyed?
Do you remember the words of the last survivor of the planet?

Seen he was pretty much targeting anything in its path not cybertron in particular, Think about it if you want to cybertron only then why to bother stopping with the moons And not go direct to the target you clean it was after?




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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:28 am

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Plus, other than being spoken, has the "Decepticons can't open the Matrix" ever been physically shown in canon?
.


In the cartoon....No
But in the comics it was a decepticonthat was able to open the matrix and use it for power
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby ZeroWolf » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:41 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
ZeroWolf wrote:Unicron being indifferent...yeah that's not accurate at all. Unicron started attacking cybertron as soon as be was sure it's last defence (the matrix) was rendered useless. He wanted cybertron gone. After all this is what Simon Furman built on, to create a rivalry between primus and Unicron.
That’s not entirely accurate, And based on unicRoma own words he did seem indifferent about cybertron

He only started attacking the planet after Galvatrons attempted betrayal failed , And based on his own words he considered sparing cybertron

As for Unicron, in the Movie he was already targeting cybertron (remember the moons? Galvatron hadn't betrayed him yet) when galvy upset him, he turned to robot mode to prolong the planet (and Galvatron) suffering. As I said, Unicron wanted cybertron gone,

I don’t see how the moons help your argument in fact they seem to hurt

Do you remember the first planet he destroyed?
Do you remember the words of the last survivor of the planet?

Seen he was pretty much targeting anything in its path not cybertron in particular, Think about it if you want to cybertron only then why to bother stopping with the moons And not go direct to the target you clean it was after?




A

Thanks for the input sto :-) I always value what you post especially in regards to the very early days. I can see I was wrong with Unicron, maybe letting later interpretations affect my thinking on him but we don't know which Unicron beast wars mentioned...

Actually a thought, in beast wars neo it turns out that Unicron was manipulating certain events in order to revive himself, which take did takara go with him? (Comic or toon?)
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:36 am

ZeroWolf wrote:@gobots that is actually complicated as they've don't own the cartoon rights (I.e. the fiction) as there still with warner bros and the original molds for the toys belong to Bandai (who own machine robo) so all hasbro have is names


I see. So Gobots is in the same Rights limbo as Bravestarr.. wonderful. Given all the 80's properties, nothing could merge with Transformers easier (aside from Rock Lords, please don't bring them back :lol: ) and yet with no greater irony.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Plus, other than being spoken, has the "Decepticons can't open the Matrix" ever been physically shown in canon?
.


In the cartoon....No
But in the comics it was a decepticon that was able to open the matrix and use it for power


Thunderwing, yes? My knowledge of G1 comics is even sketchier than my Season 1 & 2 knowledge but I did read something about The Matrix becoming some kind of corrupted energy demon?

ZeroWolf wrote:Actually a thought, in beast wars neo it turns out that Unicron was manipulating certain events in order to revive himself, which take did takara go with him? (Comic or toon?)


After hearing about the Japanese Dub of Beast Wars season 1 aka how Japan didn't get Beast Wars. I did decide to seek out Beast Wars 2 & Neo once. I got as far as the pilot of BW2 and tapped out. It reminded me of the awful dialogue and humour of the Unicron Trilogy. Plus, that teeth gritting Thing is no Galvatron. I think it's safe to assume the canon of BW doesn't mesh with these Takara BW series, given the team up between Leo Convoy and base form Optimus Primal...
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:51 am

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ZeroWolf wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
ZeroWolf wrote:Unicron being indifferent...yeah that's not accurate at all. Unicron started attacking cybertron as soon as be was sure it's last defence (the matrix) was rendered useless. He wanted cybertron gone. After all this is what Simon Furman built on, to create a rivalry between primus and Unicron.
That’s not entirely accurate, And based on unicRoma own words he did seem indifferent about cybertron

He only started attacking the planet after Galvatrons attempted betrayal failed , And based on his own words he considered sparing cybertron

As for Unicron, in the Movie he was already targeting cybertron (remember the moons? Galvatron hadn't betrayed him yet) when galvy upset him, he turned to robot mode to prolong the planet (and Galvatron) suffering. As I said, Unicron wanted cybertron gone,

I don’t see how the moons help your argument in fact they seem to hurt

Do you remember the first planet he destroyed?
Do you remember the words of the last survivor of the planet?

Seen he was pretty much targeting anything in its path not cybertron in particular, Think about it if you want to cybertron only then why to bother stopping with the moons And not go direct to the target you clean it was after?


A

A

Thanks for the input sto :-) I always value what you post especially in regards to the very early days. I can see I was wrong with Unicron, maybe letting later interpretations affect my thinking on him but we don't know which Unicron beast wars mentioned...

Actually a thought, in beast wars neo it turns out that Unicron was manipulating certain events in order to revive himself, which take did takara go with him? (Comic or toon?)
Thanks for the compliment

As to your question initially they went with the G1 cartoon idea but over the years and the million different rep cons I don’t know where they stand with the big U, God or just a big TF I’m not sure anymore
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:53 am

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
ZeroWolf wrote:@gobots that is actually complicated as they've don't own the cartoon rights (I.e. the fiction) as there still with warner bros and the original molds for the toys belong to Bandai (who own machine robo) so all hasbro have is names


I see. So Gobots is in the same Rights limbo as Bravestarr.. wonderful. Given all the 80's properties, nothing could merge with Transformers easier (aside from Rock Lords, please don't bring them back :lol: ) and yet with no greater irony.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Plus, other than being spoken, has the "Decepticons can't open the Matrix" ever been physically shown in canon?
.


In the cartoon....No
But in the comics it was a decepticon that was able to open the matrix and use it for power


Thunderwing, yes? My knowledge of G1 comics is even sketchier than my Season 1 & 2 knowledge but I did read something about The Matrix becoming some kind of corrupted energy demon?

ZeroWolf wrote:Actually a thought, in beast wars neo it turns out that Unicron was manipulating certain events in order to revive himself, which take did takara go with him? (Comic or toon?)


After hearing about the Japanese Dub of Beast Wars season 1 aka how Japan didn't get Beast Wars. I did decide to seek out Beast Wars 2 & Neo once. I got as far as the pilot of BW2 and tapped out. It reminded me of the awful dialogue and humour of the Unicron Trilogy. Plus, that teeth gritting Thing is no Galvatron. I think it's safe to assume the canon of BW doesn't mesh with these Takara BW series, given the team up between Leo Convoy and base form Optimus Primal...
Yes on Thunderwing, Which by the way was a great story arc if you ever get the chance to pick up some of the books and read them you should
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T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:07 pm

A while back I started collecting a Transformers part-work that chronicles all TF comics. It's jumping around between series a bit but I will keep my eye out for that Thunderwing story. Although I am told Thunderwing isn't quite the same force of nature in G1 as when I first read about him in Stormbringer?
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:46 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:A while back I started collecting a Transformers part-work that chronicles all TF comics. It's jumping around between series a bit but I will keep my eye out for that Thunderwing story. Although I am told Thunderwing isn't quite the same force of nature in G1 as when I first read about him in Stormbringer?

I can agree with that assessment there is the issue with some of the G1 comics sometimes it was written very dark other times they were written with a kids mind as the primary target so it’s like a mixed bag of nuts
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby ZeroWolf » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:21 pm

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:A while back I started collecting a Transformers part-work that chronicles all TF comics. It's jumping around between series a bit but I will keep my eye out for that Thunderwing story. Although I am told Thunderwing isn't quite the same force of nature in G1 as when I first read about him in Stormbringer?

I can agree with that assessment there is the issue with some of the G1 comics sometimes it was written very dark other times they were written with a kids mind as the primary target so it’s like a mixed bag of nuts

Well you do go from stories like car wash of doom to matrix quest ;-)

To answer the question about thunderwing, he's a different kind of force of nature in G1, he's not an all powerful monstrosity but he's one of the best villains the comics had.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:19 am

Loved Stormbringer. The redesigns for all of the (Former) Pretenders in that story were fantastic. As an aside, where is Thunderwing in IDW currently? I think they used him again briefly in Chaos??
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby ZeroWolf » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:33 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
For the most I think he's dormant as spotlight: sideswipe was his last proper appearance. It could be that they reframe from using him because he was one of Furman's signature characters but that's just conjecture on my part
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:56 am

ZeroWolf wrote:For the most I think he's dormant as spotlight: sideswipe was his last proper appearance. It could be that they reframe from using him because he was one of Furman's signature characters but that's just conjecture on my part


It's one of those things. He is a mindless yet unstoppable engine of destruction, that no one can defeat. Doesn't really mesh with either of the ongoings. Never know he may end up as a Herald for Unicron?

Bludgeon's fate post-Stormbringer still bothers me too, to be honest. How do they reconcile his fate at the end of Stormbringer with his subsequent appearances? They virtually ignored the finale to Stormbringer and just used him regardless.

He is another one I hear is a real big deal in G1.. When I get to read about him.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:45 am

So Tigatron

Originally supposed to be Wolfang. The first wave of Beast Wars toys seem to have Polar Claw fill that role in the roster. I like to think the dialogue, especially in his debut, would have been unchanged IE his talk of remaining with his animal kin. Now obviously, the boring answer was budget made him a Cat Bot too. But in hindsight, would you have preferred one of the other choices instead, would it have made a difference?

Personally, although it is inkeeping with TF Lore, I didn't like the duel Cat and Spider Bots. Were budget not a factor I would have preferred other BW characters instead of body clones.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby ZeroWolf » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:09 pm

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
I would of actually liked a wolf (one day I'll get around to doing that wolf pack combiner fan art), I know we got one in silverbolt but I would still have liked one before then.
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