The Energon Pub

by **DTR69** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:59 pm

I personally don't like die-cast, as it over weighs toys such as MP convoy and spoils posability, BTs also suffer from this and ALTs prove that the lighter alternative really does help. Also ALTs are a consistent colour where as BTs which use a mixture have miss matching die cast and plastic panels, why use die cast if your not gonna do it fully. Plus die cast has paint that chips where as plastic doesn't. I hate it when they write die-cast on packaging as a selling feature, and only a few parts are die-cast. I remember how MP convoy was advertised as being diecast, when really its just the windows on his chest, the rest is all plastic, or maybe a few other parts up top.

The extra weight is nice to feel, but the weight itself is a disadvantage, it just makes a toy feel more expensive, i can look tasteful if done right, but when mixed with plastic, it is less asthetically pleasing.

So am I missing something about die-cast that makes alot of you love it so much?

News Credits: 2 · by **Convotron** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:17 pm

I agree, the benefits of diecast are outweighed by the issues it brings. I chose to collect Alternators figures over BT mainly because of the diecast content. The higher cost of diecast figures also played a role. I collect Alternity figures despite the diecast content because I really enjoy the character designs and the engineering that goes into the transformation sequences of the figures.

The weight, the tactile feedback from handling a diecast figure is certainly the main benefit for me. It just feels much more substantial in the hand than a largely plastic figure. But, as you said, posing potential is hindered greatly due to balance issues. As I'm primarily a collector concerned with display value, a figure that has limited posing potential just doesn't appeal to me much in general.

The problem with paint chipping is another concern I have. I haven't touched my Alternity figures in months because I just set them up and leave them on my display area. I initially handled them quite a bit to practice transforming them but after I achieved that goal, I don't want to mess around with them too much to reduce risk of damaging the paint.

Now, I do like diecast in other types of action figures when done well. S.H. Figuarts figures, for example, put good use to diecast parts.

by **ang3l3s** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:56 pm

I'm neutral on this topic as with everything you can rationalize for or against but i do think we should get touch up paint with or die-cast figures or it should be available like for your car or bike. I take posing over weight though.

News Credits: 5749 · by **El Duque** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:30 pm

I'm not that big of a fan of die-cast, although there are practical applications for it's use at times. I think there are a couple psychological factors at play with die-cast. One, the nostalgia factor, if you were around when G1 first hit the shelves a lot of the figures had die-cast parts and for some reason people always seem to think fondly of things from the past. Two, the wieght factor, people tend to think things that are heavier are better. If you knew nothing about the differences in Alternators and Binaltechs and I handed you one of each in identical packaging and told you they were the same price chances are you would go with the heavier Binaltech.

by **Prime Riblet** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:04 pm

El Duque wrote:I'm not that big of a fan of die-cast, although there are practical applications for it's use at times. I think there are a couple psychological factors at play with die-cast. One, the nostalgia factor, if you were around when G1 first hit the shelves a lot of the figures had die-cast parts and for some reason people always seem to think foundly of things from the past. Two, the wieght factor, people tend to think things that are heavier are better. If you knew nothing about the differences in Alternators and Binaltechs and I handed you one of each in identical packaging and told you they were the same price chances are you would go with the heavier Binaltech.

Everything you just said totally apply to me. The die-cast weight and feel are something I completely associate with growing up in the 1980's with TFs. The first transformer that I purchased as an adult was made fully from plastic (light-weight and maleable). I was very upset at how "cheap" I thought the newer figures felt. After I got used to it and realized how much better a figure can be without the die-cast metal, I was fine. I haven't worried about it since.

News Credits: 33 · by **Amelie** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:23 pm

If you tried to take the die-cast off my G1, it'll be after you've prised the dammed thing from the hand of my rotting corpse. :evil:

I don't neccessarily thing that it is weight why people like die-cast, but also metal feels more "real" than plastic, like you've actually bought something special. I always loved the metal and chromed parts when I was a kid - toys didn't do that very often, and it made the toy feel special and for me, it still does.

I appreciate what people say about the paint chipping, but that's more the fault of the paintjob itself - using thin paints or blobbing the paint on can (and will) do that. My vintage toys, even my heavily played with stuff from my childhood seems to have retained its paintwork fairly well, yet my reissue Jazz has already chipped and the paint is noticably thinner than on my vintage - the same goes for my TFC00 Convoy.

by **Valandar** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:25 am

As for why it was there in the 80's in the first place... well, I'm not really sure.

by **Emperor Primacron the 1st** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:47 am

I never cared for metal, either.
If they use it, fine; if they don't, fine.

Only Binaltech I have is Smokescreen, and that's mainly for the colors being better than the Alternator counterpart. Plus mine came as a free bonus in a trade 6 years ago.

News Credits: 12 · by **GuyIncognito** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:40 am

What's the deal with airline food?

by **mechabooks** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:59 am

Die-cast just seems to go with, uh robots. I love buying a vintage TF because of the heft and density that the metal brings. Plastics like the Classics series seem really cheap to me. If its not A.B.S. plastic it better be die-cast!

News Credits: 5 · by **--B--** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:06 am

GuyIncognito wrote:What's the deal with airline food?

When I saw the title of this thread I read it in a Seinfeld-ish type of voice too.

by **thedistinctroom** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:40 pm

I prefer die-cast figures because of the beautiful sheen that painted metal has. Another reason I like it is because of the weight and nostalgia factor.

by **Shadowstream** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:20 pm

My only experience with die-cast has been on my old G2 Optimus and while I could understand metal being used in the feet or legs to keep a figure grounded for display, Prime has some in his chest and thus falls over at the slightest touch, though I blame his age more than I do the die cast.

No solid opinion otherwise, as I never collected G1 or Binaltech.

by **DTR69** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:36 pm

thedistinctroom wrote:I prefer die-cast figures because of the beautiful sheen that painted metal has. Another reason I like it is because of the weight and nostalgia factor.

But how do you feel when that beautiful finish isn't consistent, around the whole figure, it's very rare die-cast is 100% used especialy on convoy/primes it's usualy the chest is dies cast and the rest of the cab is plastic. The weight is nice, but that weight has it's cons. The weight is nice when holding the figure, but the figure spends most of it's life on display, and thats when that extra weight has it's downside. As someone else mentioned, diecast in the lower half is understandable, as it can help stabilaty.

And that feeling of nostalgia is unique to dialone based transformers, so an all plastic transformer can encourage a feeling of nostalgia to later g1 figures, can it not :-]

I just feel if they want to make cost cuts, die-cast in premium figures is a feature I could do without happily.

by **thedistinctroom** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:09 pm

DTR69 wrote:
thedistinctroom wrote:I prefer die-cast figures because of the beautiful sheen that painted metal has. Another reason I like it is because of the weight and nostalgia factor.

But how do you feel when that beautiful finish isn't consistent, around the whole figure, it's very rare die-cast is 100% used especialy on convoy/primes it's usualy the chest is dies cast and the rest of the cab is plastic. The weight is nice, but that weight has it's cons. The weight is nice when holding the figure, but the figure spends most of it's life on display, and thats when that extra weight has it's downside. As someone else mentioned, diecast in the lower half is understandable, as it can help stabilaty.

And that feeling of nostalgia is unique to dialone based transformers, so an all plastic transformer can encourage a feeling of nostalgia to later g1 figures, can it not :-]

I just feel if they want to make cost cuts, die-cast in premium figures is a feature I could do without happily.

I agree with you. These things are true. Yr right about the Diaclone based Transformers. Those are my favorite verses the likes of say, those clunky 6inch Titanium Cybertron Heroes.

:KREMZEEK:

News Credits: 9 · by **Mykltron** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:31 pm

When I started collecting Alternators I decided I wanted one BT and ended up getting three. I love the hefty feel of them and only managed to buy them because I paid less than the price of an Alt.

The paint mismatch isn't really noticeable at a glance and the chipping is a bugger but as for the poseablility, I've never found it a problem except in MP Prime and Alternity Prime.

by **heltskelt** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:38 am

I think that for those of us who grew up with G1, die-cast always meant quality. By the time the 90's came around, die-cast was dead and neon missiles and oversized missile launchers had infected our beloved toy lines. This added to the nostalgia factor: everything else just seemed cheap.
My first tranformers was Ramjet, and the metal is chipped, but the metal should be stripped, considering the play value it gave me! I remember being somewhat disappointed when i got Crosshairs: no metal to be found. But, i accepted it pretty soon, and it became one of my favorite figures.
Yes, the weight does tend to compromise posing/playability, as anyone who owned Bionic 6 figures knows (I remember when Glove lost toughness points for his tendency to "faint". Eventually, Glove became useless as an action figure, but great at playing dead).
Since Hasbro's plastic quality is declining, it makes us long for "the good ol' days", but other companies have proved that quality plastic and finish make quality figures. I'm looking at my 1/48 Armored Yamato Valkyrie, and that thing uses die cast only in its joints, which is where it belongs now.

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:10 am

Die-cast isn't very important imho. It's how it's use is applied that is important. It is in this regard that G1 excels. Convoy, the diecast were on his feet and chest (gives added stability and oomph). Same with the other Autobot cars. Same with the Destron cassettes Rumble and Frenzy and even Soundwave.

Binaltech.....aside from Convoy, that I avoided like the plague because of all the chipping issues. The worst example of poorly implemented diecast/paint applications was War Within Optimus Prime....the paint like peels for just touching him.

News Credits: 128 · by **Counterpunch** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:44 am

Who are these people?

Anti-Die-Cast here. For me it's a longevity issue. I don't mind die-cast in a frame of a toy, but I hate places where it has paint applied.

On the other hand, I was immensely overjoyed that the reissue Predaking was die-cast and not plastic.

So, the point is, I'm a hypocrite.

Website · by **Flux Convoy** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:45 am

I like die cast metal, on G1 figures. In some case, like the Predacons, I could do without it. Those early figures like Prime and so on will always carry that Diakron, Gobot, transforming robot mystique for me. It's just an unexplainable feeling, more than nostalgia. Having said that, I skipped the entirety of Binal Tech and went with Alternators. I only own one BT and it's Convoy. The Alternity figures I have seem ok with what they've got and they're probably about the perfect size for the metal they have. Stability doesn't seem to be an issue. So you know, die cast? I loved ya and still do in some cases (MP figures,

) . As far as new figures go? I don't need it.

by **Valandar** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:34 am

As for paint peeling, I have a 1983 GoBot Screw Head with not a single bit of paint peeling, or even chrome peeling. Not on the die-cast, not on the chromed plastic, nowhere. Only the sticker windows on the back of the head area are peeling, and even then only slightly.

News Credits: 3 · by **Dread_Wing** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:57 pm

I agree that die-cast components can be a blessing and can be a curse. In G1, it gives the 'feeling' of quality, whether that is real or not is up for discussion. I do not think the Classics series loses anything by not containing any die cast, their posability means that the presence of die-cast anywhere but in their feet would seriously compromise stability.

However, in the Masterpiece line, die-cast is more noticeable. My MP Prime suffers from more paint chips than my G1 prime! This must be due to paint quality, and the amount of metal in him does make me a little concerned when posing him for display as the metal in the chest makes him very topheavy. However, in the MP Seeker mould, the Diecast framework is essential to the strength of the mould, taking stresses that plastic simply couldn't, I think this is a perfect use of die-cast. MP Megs uses a die cast frame as well, but it is not enough to overcome the general fragility of the mould. I have the add on, which puts die-cast in the legs, adding a bit of stability to displaying in robot mode.

I think the best use of die-cast is where it is needed as a structural component, taking strains that plastic should not. Superfluous die-cast parts that serve nothing more than making the toy unstable and top-heavy are normally more trouble than they are worth.

News Credits: 5 · by **Mr O** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:29 pm

The best use of Die-Cast in my experience was G1 Sideswipe. Good tough legs to aid the stability and to stop the transformation destroying the figure.

by **Cobalt Prime** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:37 pm

"Die-cast construction...it's a lost art."

by **alternator77** » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:01 pm

Valandar wrote:As for why it was there in the 80's in the first place... well, I'm not really sure.

back then we had alot of metal production and fabrication done in the us which we exported to china and elsewhere but as time went on it became more expensive as most of it went to construction so alot of toy manufacturers discontinued its use. today alot of the metal thats produced in china is for some reason cheaper hence its use everywhere there. also some of our toy laws here suck so metal toys with paint are few and far in between.