Which is your favorite original cast?

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Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:55 am

Out of all the Transformers series that you have read or watched, which original cast is your favorite and why? By "original cast" I mean the Autobots and Decepticons that appeared in a specific series' very first issue or episode, before any others were added.
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Re: Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby Kurona » Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:59 am

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Suppose I can't say MTMTE if we're assuming the 'first episode' in this case would be Infiltration as IDW...

Comes down to TFP, Animated or Beast Wars then. Can't decide, all of them were fantastic. BW does lose points for Scorponok and Terrorsaur being boring and forgettable though.
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Re: Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:25 am

TFA and TFP had nearly identical Autobot casts when each started. Which did you like better?
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Re: Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby Kurona » Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:35 am

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Rodimus Prime wrote:TFA and TFP had nearly identical Autobot casts when each started. Which did you like better?

Once again I feel it's hard to decide - I suppose Animated might have the edge due to having a far, far better Optimus and Bumblebee.
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Re: Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:45 pm

And what about the odd one out? Prowl or Arcee? They were both bikes and had similar skills, but their personalities were very different.
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Re: Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby Kurona » Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:44 pm

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Both are among my favourite characters of each show; doing very different things and accomplishing them very well. I think I prefer Ratchet and Bulkhead in TFP though, but prefer TFA Optimus and Bumblebee... so might be a draw.
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Re: Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:37 am

I always thought Ratchet and Bulkhead from both series were pretty much identical, especially Bulkhead. TFA Ratchet might have been a bit grumpier, but TFP Ratchet was a better fighter. I prefer Prowl over Arcee, but only by a smidge. If I had to select characters to make 1 cast from both series, I would go with Prowl, Bee and Bulkhead from TFA and Ratchet and Prime from TFP.

Now how about the 'Cons?
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Re: Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby Kurona » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:41 am

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I agree with you on Ratchet and Bulkhead, but for what it's worth I feel Ratchet was pulled off better in terms of performance in TFP which led me to love him more - his outburst at the rest of the team at the end of Season 2 really got to me.

Cons are pretty difficult. I would go with TFP, but going by the strictest adherence to the guidelines set out by the thread; Knock Out and Breakdown only joined the cast right after Darkness Rising. Starscream and Soundwave are great, but Knock Out just made that cast...

It's a hard one. 'Cons usually get the shaft due to the focus being on the good guys most of the time, allowing for a lot more development and interesting characteristics. This feels weird to say since I'm only on Issue 13 so far, but Marvel UK could be a good contender - Ravage is impressing me decently.
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Re: Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby Rodimus Prime » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:41 am

Kurona wrote:I agree with you on Ratchet and Bulkhead, but for what it's worth I feel Ratchet was pulled off better in terms of performance in TFP which led me to love him more - his outburst at the rest of the team at the end of Season 2 really got to me.
I haven't seen TFP since it originally aired, so I can't remember specifics. I am currently going through TFA, and as soon as I'm done watching it, it's onto TFP. Maybe I will have my opinion swayed...

Cons are pretty difficult. I would go with TFP, but going by the strictest adherence to the guidelines set out by the thread; Knock Out and Breakdown only joined the cast right after Darkness Rising. Starscream and Soundwave are great, but Knock Out just made that cast...
Then let's just narrow it down to the ones both casts had in common, namely Megatron and Starscream. (Those are the only ones I remember.)

This feels weird to say since I'm only on Issue 13 so far, but Marvel UK could be a good contender - Ravage is impressing me decently.
You're in for a treat! Personally, I prefer the US version of the G1 comics, due to the streamlined stories compared to some of the excess and unnecessary sidetracking the UK version has, but it also has great stories like Target: 2006, Space Pirates, and Time Wars. If you have the patience to sit through the entire 332-issue series, you will more than likely not regret it. :)
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Re: Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby PrymeStriker » Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:18 pm

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Yeah, I'll take a swing at Prime, Beast Wars, and Animated.

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Beast Wars' pilot cast aren't particularly that memorable for me. Maybe that's 'cause I haven't watched the damn show in four years, but the only characters that were in that first episode that spring to the forefront are Dinobot, Waspinator, Rattrap, Megatron, and Tarantulas. So, out of those characters...Rattrap was an irritating piece of sh*t that was melded from the simplest comedic writing. Waspinator could be considered the same, but for all my disdain for slapstick comedy, which I always single out as a bland way to get a cheap laugh, I actually didn't mind him as a character. Megatron was very entertaining in that show, Dinobot is basically an idol, and Tarantulas was pretty interesting. Still, considering the other six characters were either bad, forgettable, or uninteresting, I'd be hard-pressed to say that I actually prefer the deck we started with in Beast Wars. The characters that were added later were much more integral.

....Except for Inferno, Quickstrike, Tigatron, and Airrazor......

Also, I agree with Kurona. Scorponok and Terrorsaur were wastes of time, and the way they were lazily written out of the show is one of those clumsy Breakdown/Airachnid moments in Beast Wars that I'm surprised nobody complains about. I mean, Scorponok was just a shell with no personality whatsoever, so his death is less...I don't know...nauseating? But Terrorsaur was working on something of an arc in the first season to my recollection, and I remember kind of watching him and thinking "I wonder where he's going next season". Then that Transmetal crap happened and then it was like, NOPE, HE DOESN'T HAVE A TOY IN THE NEW WAVE. F*CK HIM AND ANY POTENTIAL FOR STORY HE HAD. WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON THE VOK ARC THAT'S GOING TO WASTE EVEN MORE OF YOUR TIME. WE'RE TALENTED WRITERS. OUR SHOW IS GREAT. PRAISE US.

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Alright, alright, enough of that. Animated's pilot cast was a lot better off. On the Autobots' side, we have a really nice set of characters. All with distinct and stand-out personalities for once. Yay. That said, not all of them were interesting personalities. I mean, I kinda liked Animated Optimus, but I find that the young guy that aspires to be something amazing stales a little when he's the main character of the show. Bulkhead got pretty interesting later on in the second and third season, and I love Prowl. Animated Ratchet.......eh. I think Prime won that game considering Prime Ratchet had a far more interesting arc. Animated Bumblebee was even okay too.

On the Decepticons we've got............................Blitzwing. That's about it. Yeahhhh, Animated Decepticons sucked hard. They were mostly these flat, one-dimensional villains with the most standard villain personalities because the Transformers Animated almost refused to give equal depth, focus, and development to both sides, which is something both Prime and Beast Wars did gracefully. Blackarachnia had an arc that was never resolved 'cause the show got cancelled. But even with that in mind, her writing was lazy as f*ck. She had a token episode each season, and they all followed the same dull, stagnate formula. Blackarachnia does something evil, Optimus gets involved somehow, we're reminded that they have a past relationship together, so that means she might still care about him, she might not, who cares, her plans are foiled, she escapes, see you guys next season where we'll write the same episode but this time with even more Beast Wars references. Pitiful. Anyways, we had a great set of good guys this time around, but the bad guys very literally ruined the parade.

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Transformers Prime had probably the most limited cast of the three series. With Beast Wars and Animated we at least had 10 characters to choose from and love/criticize. In Prime, we had eight. That's okay, though, because this time, we've gone back to the days where both "good" guys and "bad" guys were all just guys by the end of the day and all had some level of depth and some distinct personality. No less is true with the characters that came along after the pilot, which like Beast Wars, I think are the strongest characters. The starter deck, on the other hand....yeah, still kind of limiting. Optimus, Bumblebee, and Bulkhead were all Bland McBoringf*cks. However, let it be known, the character Bumblebee became in Predacons Rising and ultimately Robots in Disguise (2015) worked out for the better, and made him one of my favorite Bumblebees. Too bad he sucked in Prime. So we're just left with Arcee, Ratchet, Megatron, Starscream, and Soundwave....'cause Cliffjumper was literally nothing. I liked Arcee. Megatron was a menacing warlord, but was only ever really that interesting in Predacons Rising. Prime Starscream is GOD. They even had an interesting take on Soundwave in the series.

Ratchet was the only one that was both an entertaining and interesting character front-to-back of the show. Starscream started out entertaining (in the sense that he was a menacing character), got interesting around the middle of the first season and into the second, went back to entertaining in the third (this time moreso as comic relief). Even Arcee took a little while to jump up to speed. Ratchet stayed both of those things consistently, with growing out of his disdain for humans as well as becoming less of a detachment from the rest of the team. With every episode you saw this come closer and closer into full fruition until "Deadlock", where it was all tied up well and good. Ratchet is easily the best character of the pilot cast, before other characters debuted and made equal impact.

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So, really, I don't know. Picking just one pilot cast is kind of hard. All of them have their strengths and their weaknesses. Beast Wars and Prime both had a mixed bag of great and bland characters in their starter packs, and as those shows went on it became clear that the characters that were added later on were more consistently impactful than what we started with. And with Animated we started off with a good collection of Autobots that were tainted by f*cking awful Decepticons. I guess I'll just sort this by ratio of good-to-bad characters in each respective starter deck and then choose my "favorite" based on which one's percentage is higher. 'Cause, you know, statistics dictate my life. >:oP

Prime - 5/8: 63%
Animated - 5/10: 50%
Beast Wars - 4/10: 40%

Yeah...okay, Prime I guess. Big shock. :roll:
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Re: Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby Kurona » Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:39 pm

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PrymeStriker wrote:NOPE, HE DOESN'T HAVE A TOY IN THE NEW WAVE.

Actually...

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This is also the mold they used for Armada Terrorsaur. Quite a few Season 1 cast characters had new Transmetal toys that didn't get used - Terrorsaur, Rhinox, Airazor, Waspinator; there's that whole thing where Scavenger was originally going to be Inferno... but for whatever reason, these characters didn't get the upgrades in the show. Very weird. In general characters don't get dropped from the show just because they don't have a new toy out - Rhinox and Waspinator stayed in their original bodies to the very end of the show.

Terrorsaur and Scorponok were instead dropped because, according to the shows' creators; they just weren't as popular as the other cast members. Which... yeah, I can easily see that. They were easily the least interesting of the original cast with Terrorsaur being as basic a Starscream as you can get while Scorponok, as you said, was basically a pile of nothing. The biggest trait of him I can remember is that he was loyal to Megatron, but that fluctuates and I think I'm mostly remembering it that way to make a desperate parallel to Soundwave. So I didn't mind them leaving the show and it's actually kinda symbolic to me - the Starscream ripoff leaving meant Beast Wars could fully embrace its own individuality. And yes they did use Generation 1 stuff a LOT, but what I mean is that it's interacting with that as a sequel would rather than trying to copy what it did. Season 1 felt a lot like that, so the greater focus on character development and long-term plotting which started with Terrorsaur's death really feels like it's fully coming into its own. But that's just me.
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Re: Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby PrymeStriker » Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:05 pm

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I forgot about that toy. Still, you don't have to lazily write out your characters to "free" yourself from writing a better story. You can give them more satisfying conclusions than "freak accident causes them to burn to death and the other characters act like they never existed", no matter how early into the series you are. Just getting rid of characters because they aren't "popular" isn't a good reason to write them out when they have active arcs in the series. Nobody hated Terrorsaur. His cruel and abrupt fate was not called for.
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Re: Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby Kurona » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:49 pm

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Rodimus Prime wrote:
This feels weird to say since I'm only on Issue 13 so far, but Marvel UK could be a good contender - Ravage is impressing me decently.
You're in for a treat! Personally, I prefer the US version of the G1 comics, due to the streamlined stories compared to some of the excess and unnecessary sidetracking the UK version has, but it also has great stories like Target: 2006, Space Pirates, and Time Wars. If you have the patience to sit through the entire 332-issue series, you will more than likely not regret it. :)



Off-topic, but I just finished Target: 2006 and... yeah, that was hella. Easily the best part of the UK comic so far.

Since we're talking about original casts; I'm really liking Marvel Ratchet, and I'm surprised at how much I like Marvel Soundwave too. He's like Shockwave and Megatron's marriage counsellor.
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Re: Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby shajaki » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:52 am

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I was gonna say Beast Wars, but actually no. And that's cause of the Predacons. I've always thought Scorponok should have been named Genericbot #204. And poor Terrorsaur was inexplicably offed at the end of S1.

So I gotta go with Beast Machines. Primal, Rattrap, Megatron, and Jetstorm. So much love :x
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Re: Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby Rodimus Prime » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:33 pm

shajaki wrote:So I gotta go with Beast Machines. Primal, Rattrap, Megatron, and Jetstorm. So much love :x
Really? Beast Machines is the worst TF series I have seen. Ever. I did like Megatron and the surprise we got with Rhinox/Tankor, but the rest of the cast was just not doing it for me. Especially Nightscream (ugh) and Savage/Noble.

Kurona wrote:Since we're talking about original casts; I'm really liking Marvel Ratchet, and I'm surprised at how much I like Marvel Soundwave too. He's like Shockwave and Megatron's marriage counselor.
Yes, Ratchet was very well done in the comics. I especially loved his recurring conflicts with Megatron. It was honestly 1 of the best character arcs in the comics, especially with how it ended. And Soundwave? I'm not sure about the UK version, but I know that in the US version, he is the only character to survive the entire comic series without being killed, knocked off-line, or even hurt.
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Re: Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby shajaki » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:54 am

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shajaki wrote:So I gotta go with Beast Machines. Primal, Rattrap, Megatron, and Jetstorm. So much love :x
Really? Beast Machines is the worst TF series I have seen. Ever. I did like Megatron and the surprise we got with Rhinox/Tankor, but the rest of the cast was just not doing it for me. Especially Nightscream (ugh) and Savage/Noble.
In your opinion, sure.
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Re: Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby Kurona » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:34 pm

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I've been meaning to rewatch Beast Machines more than any other series. At the time I was hating on it due to pre-conceptions and the fact that it is REALLY not a good sequel to Beast Wars... but since then having considered quite a few things about it, I want to approach it from the angle of it being its own thing and seeing if it's any better. I don't think anything will convince me that it works as a sequel to Beast Wars, but it might just be good on its own.
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Re: Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby shajaki » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:55 am

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Kurona wrote:I've been meaning to rewatch Beast Machines more than any other series. At the time I was hating on it due to pre-conceptions and the fact that it is REALLY not a good sequel to Beast Wars... but since then having considered quite a few things about it, I want to approach it from the angle of it being its own thing and seeing if it's any better. I don't think anything will convince me that it works as a sequel to Beast Wars, but it might just be good on its own.
Not really sure I understand that... how does it not "work"? Its the same characters, and it picks up from where they left off at the end of BW...
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Re: Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby Kurona » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:53 pm

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shajaki wrote:
Kurona wrote:I've been meaning to rewatch Beast Machines more than any other series. At the time I was hating on it due to pre-conceptions and the fact that it is REALLY not a good sequel to Beast Wars... but since then having considered quite a few things about it, I want to approach it from the angle of it being its own thing and seeing if it's any better. I don't think anything will convince me that it works as a sequel to Beast Wars, but it might just be good on its own.
Not really sure I understand that... how does it not "work"? Its the same characters, and it picks up from where they left off at the end of BW...

Due to how it was handled. It's an extremely different tone and type of story from Beast Wars, and the characters I feel had drastic changes with no explanation - Rhinox's complete 180 is the worst offender, but there are others that just feel off. It -technically- continues the same story with -technically- the same characters, but I only know it's the same story and characters because I'm told that rather than it actually feeling like a continuation. To me at least; maybe you feel different but to me this just wasn't what a continuation of Beast Wars would look like.

Again though, that doesn't mean it's a bad show and it's why I want to rewatch it - especially since having been watching RiD 2015 for a while, I've come to accept it as a fine show and its own thing rather than being annoyed that it doesn't make a good sequel to Prime. Being a bad sequel is I believe a valid criticism, but it shouldn't invalidate the rest of the show so I dearly want to give Beast Machines another chance.
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Re: Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby shajaki » Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:03 pm

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Kurona wrote:Due to how it was handled. It's an extremely different tone and type of story from Beast Wars, and the characters I feel had drastic changes with no explanation -
I agree it was handled completely differently. But I think it was amazing, and we'll likely never see the likes of it again. It is hands down the most adult oriented series we've ever seen on the screen, and its all about the kiddies these days. And actually, the no explanation thing adds mystique. It was hella interesting. After watching episode 1 I was instantly hooked because "WHATTHEHELLWASTHATWHATHAPPENEDOMGWHAT???!".

Kurona wrote:Rhinox's complete 180 is the worst offender, but there are others that just feel off.
Huh. I thought his character change was the easiest to understand. The BW episode "Dark Designs" might as well be a blueprint for Tankor, and completely justifies his change.

Kurona wrote:It -technically- continues the same story with -technically- the same characters, but I only know it's the same story and characters because I'm told that rather than it actually feeling like a continuation. To me at least; maybe you feel different but to me this just wasn't what a continuation of Beast Wars would look like.
Change is good though! Were you around in the days BW first started? The Geewunners? Truk not munky? I guess I'm just a minority. I grew up with G1, but instantly accepted BW, love BW, and instantly accepted BM.

Kurona wrote:Again though, that doesn't mean it's a bad show and it's why I want to rewatch it - especially since having been watching RiD 2015 for a while, I've come to accept it as a fine show and its own thing rather than being annoyed that it doesn't make a good sequel to Prime. Being a bad sequel is I believe a valid criticism, but it shouldn't invalidate the rest of the show so I dearly want to give Beast Machines another chance.
I'm glad you have resolve, I hope you find what I see in it ;)
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Re: Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby Rodimus Prime » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:06 pm

shajaki wrote:It is hands down the most adult oriented series we've ever seen on the screen
And that was its main drawback. It was too serious. It was what I imagine Transformers would be if George Orwell had written it. Unlike Kurona, I accept it as a sequel to Beast Wars. It was just taken totally to the extreme, and after a while it just wasn't fun to watch anymore. (It might also have to do with the fact that my sociopath ex-girlfriend made me watch it almost all at once, so I just got sick of watching it) Even looking at it as its own thing, if I totally disregard Beast Wars, it's still an extremely dark and dystopian setting for a series. It was just too much.

In my opinion, of course.
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Re: Which is your favorite original cast?

Postby shajaki » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:46 pm

Motto: "A man who wants nothing is invincible."
Rodimus Prime wrote:
shajaki wrote:It is hands down the most adult oriented series we've ever seen on the screen
And that was its main drawback. It was too serious. It was what I imagine Transformers would be if George Orwell had written it. Unlike Kurona, I accept it as a sequel to Beast Wars. It was just taken totally to the extreme, and after a while it just wasn't fun to watch anymore. (It might also have to do with the fact that my sociopath ex-girlfriend made me watch it almost all at once, so I just got sick of watching it) Even looking at it as its own thing, if I totally disregard Beast Wars, it's still an extremely dark and dystopian setting for a series. It was just too much.

In my opinion, of course.
Of coarse. A similar comparison would be 70's comic Batman and (RIP) Adam West vs the current dark Batman in the comics and Nolan trilogy. Only in this instance is the darker version people seem to prefer.
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