We Now Have an Explanation for why Legacy Blitzwing Comes with those Energon Gauntlets

Agent 53 wrote:They've gotta stop doing this, how many times has a gimmick just ruined a line, Hasbro should focus on just making sure the figures a a good representation of the characters for the price point.

ZeroWolf wrote:

Agent 53 wrote:They've gotta stop doing this, how many times has a gimmick just ruined a line, Hasbro should focus on just making sure the figures a a good representation of the characters for the price point.

Gimmicks sell well with kids though, look at the UT stuff

Agent 53 wrote:They've gotta stop doing this, how many times has a gimmick just ruined a line, Hasbro should focus on just making sure the figures a a good representation of the characters for the price point.

Agent 53 wrote:They've gotta stop doing this, how many times has a gimmick just ruined a line

RiddlerJ wrote:The robot mode looks okay. the alt mode still looks kinda dinky.

SpaceEagle wrote:That headsculpt looks really good! Honestly I am not surprised they couldn't retool the car mode to look more like a 959 without getting very angry side-eyes from Porsche, but the lightbar seems less goofy than Elita-1's getup. Definitely picking this up, and hopefully the final product will have more paint. (I did wish the gun wasn't clear plastic but hopefully that'll be changed too? Probably not, it isn't a deal breaker for me anyway.)

william-james88 wrote:

SpaceEagle wrote:That headsculpt looks really good! Honestly I am not surprised they couldn't retool the car mode to look more like a 959 without getting very angry side-eyes from Porsche, but the lightbar seems less goofy than Elita-1's getup. Definitely picking this up, and hopefully the final product will have more paint. (I did wish the gun wasn't clear plastic but hopefully that'll be changed too? Probably not, it isn't a deal breaker for me anyway.)

What you see in those pics is what you'll get.

RiddlerJ wrote:
The robot mode looks okay. the alt mode still looks kinda dinky.


yeah, it aint great. Turns out this looks like it was meant more for Elita 1 afterall.

o.supreme wrote:So I guess we'll call this Minerva from Victory as opposed Masterforce . Anyway, looks cool.

JazZeke wrote:Yeah, aside from Blitzing's silly gloves, the gimmick isn't an intrusive one. It may dip into the plastic budget, but aside from that the toys don't have to be engineered around them like Mini-Cons or combining does.

DeathReviews wrote:And in some measure, it makes me resentful that they forced price point hikes on some figures to dump in these weapons, which many of us didn't even really want, and perhaps diminish the engineering on those figures because they thought the weapons made them 'good enough'.

DeathReviews wrote:The Energon weapon thing may have been a neat concept, but it just doesn't work out that well in real life. There's the fact that they have to force some figures to take weapons which don't make any sense (like Blitzwing), just to carry on the gimmick.

And there's the fact that these weapons just don't 'combine' well. You can jam them all together sure, but they don't look good. And any combo weapon you make out of them would be unwieldy, and ineffective to the point of mockery if you tried to actually use it. Yes, they're toy weapons, so real life doesn't matter. But they're at least meant to allow SOME suspension of disbelief. I don't look at any of the combos in that diagram, and say to myself, "Yeah, that could work".

And in some measure, it makes me resentful that they forced price point hikes on some figures to dump in these weapons, which many of us didn't even really want, and perhaps diminish the engineering on those figures because they thought the weapons made them 'good enough'.

o.supreme wrote:So I guess we'll call this Minerva from Victory as opposed Masterforce . Anyway, looks cool. However, I am a bit surprised. I don't think we ever had confirmation Red Alert ever showed up in a Walgreens store, it was online only ( Pulse very limited, and occasionally on Walgreens.com). Kind of disappointing since I had been able to find all the others going back to TR Brainstorm fairly easily.

Sabrblade wrote:It's basically IDW2 Minerva, who is not a Headmaster.

AcademyofDrX wrote:

DeathReviews wrote:And in some measure, it makes me resentful that they forced price point hikes on some figures to dump in these weapons, which many of us didn't even really want, and perhaps diminish the engineering on those figures because they thought the weapons made them 'good enough'.

That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works

AcademyofDrX wrote:

DeathReviews wrote:And in some measure, it makes me resentful that they forced price point hikes on some figures to dump in these weapons, which many of us didn't even really want, and perhaps diminish the engineering on those figures because they thought the weapons made them 'good enough'.

That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works

You're right, that's not how it works. And I thought I wrote it clearly enough in the article. It's the other way around. None of the engineering is diminished, it is instead improved by having a leader budget for a voyager sized toy. The gauntlets are just there to help sell the figure to people who need a visual aid to substantiate paying leader prices.

DeathReviews wrote:Based on the size and engineering seen in videos, that seems to be all it's worth. Instead, we have to pay leader price for a voyager figure (again) and have our intelligence insulted with the notion that the inclusion of these gauntlet weapons somehow makes Blitzwing "worth" the price of a Leader figure.

DeathReviews wrote:

You're right, that's not how it works. And I thought I wrote it clearly enough in the article. It's the other way around. None of the engineering is diminished, it is instead improved by having a leader budget for a voyager sized toy. The gauntlets are just there to help sell the figure to people who need a visual aid to substantiate paying leader prices.

I'll allow that it 'works' in that it represents what Hasbro is actually DOING. But it doesn't 'work' for many of us in the sense that we're being asked to believe that figures like Blitzwing are 'improved' by mere reason of the inclusion of these gauntlet pieces.

I (for one) would rather have paid voyager price for Blitzwing, because based on the size and engineering, that seems to be all it's worth. In exchange for that, I would have been perfectly happy to live without the energon gauntlets. Instead, we have to pay leader price for a voyager figure (again) and have our intelligence insulted with the notion that the inclusion of these gauntlet weapons somehow makes Blitzwing worth the price of a Leader figure. The only way I could see myself using those silly things is if they could be fitted onto Mensaor's forearms somehow and become proper gloves. Don't see how that's possible though.

Rtron wrote:

DeathReviews wrote:

You're right, that's not how it works. And I thought I wrote it clearly enough in the article. It's the other way around. None of the engineering is diminished, it is instead improved by having a leader budget for a voyager sized toy. The gauntlets are just there to help sell the figure to people who need a visual aid to substantiate paying leader prices.

I'll allow that it 'works' in that it represents what Hasbro is actually DOING. But it doesn't 'work' for many of us in the sense that we're being asked to believe that figures like Blitzwing are 'improved' by mere reason of the inclusion of these gauntlet pieces.

I (for one) would rather have paid voyager price for Blitzwing, because based on the size and engineering, that seems to be all it's worth. In exchange for that, I would have been perfectly happy to live without the energon gauntlets. Instead, we have to pay leader price for a voyager figure (again) and have our intelligence insulted with the notion that the inclusion of these gauntlet weapons somehow makes Blitzwing worth the price of a Leader figure. The only way I could see myself using those silly things is if they could be fitted onto Mensaor's forearms somehow and become proper gloves. Don't see how that's possible though.

You don't lower Blitzwing to voyager price just by removing the gauntlets. I can't say I know how Hasbro specifically budgets, but my educated guess is that those gauntlets are not what makes that figure leader price. Blitzwing's parts count and weight for the figure itself is probably between voyager and leader, with parts count being very close to a "normal" leader. There's now way not including the gloves makes him suddenly a voyager, as they only represent 4 parts. That's less than a Core class worth of parts, and they probably don't represent that much weight percentage either.

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:

Rtron wrote:

DeathReviews wrote:

You're right, that's not how it works. And I thought I wrote it clearly enough in the article. It's the other way around. None of the engineering is diminished, it is instead improved by having a leader budget for a voyager sized toy. The gauntlets are just there to help sell the figure to people who need a visual aid to substantiate paying leader prices.

I'll allow that it 'works' in that it represents what Hasbro is actually DOING. But it doesn't 'work' for many of us in the sense that we're being asked to believe that figures like Blitzwing are 'improved' by mere reason of the inclusion of these gauntlet pieces.

I (for one) would rather have paid voyager price for Blitzwing, because based on the size and engineering, that seems to be all it's worth. In exchange for that, I would have been perfectly happy to live without the energon gauntlets. Instead, we have to pay leader price for a voyager figure (again) and have our intelligence insulted with the notion that the inclusion of these gauntlet weapons somehow makes Blitzwing worth the price of a Leader figure. The only way I could see myself using those silly things is if they could be fitted onto Mensaor's forearms somehow and become proper gloves. Don't see how that's possible though.

You don't lower Blitzwing to voyager price just by removing the gauntlets. I can't say I know how Hasbro specifically budgets, but my educated guess is that those gauntlets are not what makes that figure leader price. Blitzwing's parts count and weight for the figure itself is probably between voyager and leader, with parts count being very close to a "normal" leader. There's now way not including the gloves makes him suddenly a voyager, as they only represent 4 parts. That's less than a Core class worth of parts, and they probably don't represent that much weight percentage either.

I bolded and underlined the crucial part here. When figures in the end fall between two standard price points, Hasbro will always go for the higher one, but adding things to make it seem more worth while isn't necessarily a bad step to take even if it's to "cover up"
Hasbro's no stranger to that you know: when they imported Takara's Car Robots line for RiD 2001, Takara's liberal pricing made quite a few figures not fit with Hasbro's set price points, like Wedge and the Bullet Trains. Wedge was cheaper than Deluxe, but got bumped up to Deluxe anyway, and the trains got bumped to Mega.

Rtron wrote:

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:

Rtron wrote:

DeathReviews wrote:

You're right, that's not how it works. And I thought I wrote it clearly enough in the article. It's the other way around. None of the engineering is diminished, it is instead improved by having a leader budget for a voyager sized toy. The gauntlets are just there to help sell the figure to people who need a visual aid to substantiate paying leader prices.

I'll allow that it 'works' in that it represents what Hasbro is actually DOING. But it doesn't 'work' for many of us in the sense that we're being asked to believe that figures like Blitzwing are 'improved' by mere reason of the inclusion of these gauntlet pieces.

I (for one) would rather have paid voyager price for Blitzwing, because based on the size and engineering, that seems to be all it's worth. In exchange for that, I would have been perfectly happy to live without the energon gauntlets. Instead, we have to pay leader price for a voyager figure (again) and have our intelligence insulted with the notion that the inclusion of these gauntlet weapons somehow makes Blitzwing worth the price of a Leader figure. The only way I could see myself using those silly things is if they could be fitted onto Mensaor's forearms somehow and become proper gloves. Don't see how that's possible though.

You don't lower Blitzwing to voyager price just by removing the gauntlets. I can't say I know how Hasbro specifically budgets, but my educated guess is that those gauntlets are not what makes that figure leader price. Blitzwing's parts count and weight for the figure itself is probably between voyager and leader, with parts count being very close to a "normal" leader. There's now way not including the gloves makes him suddenly a voyager, as they only represent 4 parts. That's less than a Core class worth of parts, and they probably don't represent that much weight percentage either.

I bolded and underlined the crucial part here. When figures in the end fall between two standard price points, Hasbro will always go for the higher one, but adding things to make it seem more worth while isn't necessarily a bad step to take even if it's to "cover up"
Hasbro's no stranger to that you know: when they imported Takara's Car Robots line for RiD 2001, Takara's liberal pricing made quite a few figures not fit with Hasbro's set price points, like Wedge and the Bullet Trains. Wedge was cheaper than Deluxe, but got bumped up to Deluxe anyway, and the trains got bumped to Mega.

Exactly, otherwise, they'd be losing money on the figure. In this case, they'd be losing money on one of the most expensive figures of the "normal" classes. Could Hasbro tank that money loss? I have no idea, but that's not how ANY business works, specially not corporations. They're not going to lose even a single usd per figure just because the design fell in-between classes.

Till-all-R1 wrote:

JazZeke wrote:Yeah, aside from Blitzing's silly gloves, the gimmick isn't an intrusive one. It may dip into the plastic budget, but aside from that the toys don't have to be engineered around them like Mini-Cons or combining does.

Seems this "gimmick" was designed for Legacy Line so I can assume that an obligator reissue/repaint of Blitzwing is going to happen with normal hands within the next two years. lol

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:
Worth noting is that this phenomenon only props up because of their focus on accurate robot mode cartoon scale: as the characters are different heights, their figures end up in different sizes that may or not coincide with any set price points. If you look at other lines, you may find that they are sized to price point, but not current (WFC and later) Generations.

You don't lower Blitzwing to voyager price just by removing the gauntlets. I can't say I know how Hasbro specifically budgets, but my educated guess is that those gauntlets are not what makes that figure leader price. Blitzwing's parts count and weight for the figure itself is probably between voyager and leader, with parts count being very close to a "normal" leader. There's no way not including the gloves makes him suddenly a voyager, as they only represent 4 parts. That's less than a Core class worth of parts, and they probably don't represent that much weight percentage either.

If I was rich, I'd start a youtube channel exclusively dedicated to weighting, taking apart, and counting the parts and plastic distribution of every figure that comes out. Given there's so much people (rightly) worried about what they're getting for their money, it seems like an endeavor that could gain a good bit of traction.

Rtron wrote:If I was rich, I'd start a youtube channel exclusively dedicated to weighting, taking apart, and counting the parts and plastic distribution of every figure that comes out. Given there's so much people (rightly) worried about what they're getting for their money, it seems like an endeavor that could gain a good bit of traction.

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:

Rtron wrote:

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:

Rtron wrote:You don't lower Blitzwing to voyager price just by removing the gauntlets. I can't say I know how Hasbro specifically budgets, but my educated guess is that those gauntlets are not what makes that figure leader price. Blitzwing's parts count and weight for the figure itself is probably between voyager and leader, with parts count being very close to a "normal" leader. There's now way not including the gloves makes him suddenly a voyager, as they only represent 4 parts. That's less than a Core class worth of parts, and they probably don't represent that much weight percentage either.

I bolded and underlined the crucial part here. When figures in the end fall between two standard price points, Hasbro will always go for the higher one, but adding things to make it seem more worth while isn't necessarily a bad step to take even if it's to "cover up"
Hasbro's no stranger to that you know: when they imported Takara's Car Robots line for RiD 2001, Takara's liberal pricing made quite a few figures not fit with Hasbro's set price points, like Wedge and the Bullet Trains. Wedge was cheaper than Deluxe, but got bumped up to Deluxe anyway, and the trains got bumped to Mega.

Exactly, otherwise, they'd be losing money on the figure. In this case, they'd be losing money on one of the most expensive figures of the "normal" classes. Could Hasbro tank that money loss? I have no idea, but that's not how ANY business works, specially not corporations. They're not going to lose even a single usd per figure just because the design fell in-between classes.

Worth noting is that this phenomenon only props up because of their focus on accurate robot mode cartoon scale: as the characters are different heights, their figures end up in different sizes that may or not coincide with any set price points. If you look at other lines, you may find that they are sized to price point, but not current (WFC and later) Generations.

Tuned Agent wrote:A bit of a tangent, but I do worry that the "in between classes" figures are going to end up lowering fan's standards over time. At what point will the not-quite-a-class figure just become accepted as the standard for that class? When ER Cliff and Netflix Bee came out, people complained about their size, but eventually warmed up to them because they felt complex, weren't hollow, were slathered with paint, and had a ton of accessories. Then Huffer comes along, who's simple, has very hollow legs, and has an average amount paint and accessories, but nobody batted and eye. Bee and Cliff were worth deluxe money, so obviously Huffer is too, right? Classes are just price points now, after all. I don't know if an overall lowering of standards will ever really happen, but it's food for thought.

Also, a tad off topic, but there are some businesses/corporations that willingly sell certain products for a loss, usually in order to encourage more sales of other products with higher profit margins. A good example are Sony and Microsoft with the PS5 and Series X, which are sold at a loss to make the consoles more competitively priced and affordable, which in turn encourages more people to buy more games (which is where the real money is made). Not really applicable to transformers of course.

ZeroWolf wrote:

Till-all-R1 wrote:

JazZeke wrote:Yeah, aside from Blitzing's silly gloves, the gimmick isn't an intrusive one. It may dip into the plastic budget, but aside from that the toys don't have to be engineered around them like Mini-Cons or combining does.

Seems this "gimmick" was designed for Legacy Line so I can assume that an obligator reissue/repaint of Blitzwing is going to happen with normal hands within the next two years. lol

Blitzwing has normal hands, the gauntlets are accessories that you don't need to display with Blitzy if you don't want.