The Energon Pub

Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:08 am

I'm did my best to speak for the fandom (and other fandoms) as a whole with the things I've brought up. Yet and still, I'm seeing alot of "I think"s and "I dislike"s and "To me it's just"s in regards to what everyone thinks would pass as a compelling argument. Personal opinion is fine -- it's why we are on this forum. And I've done the best I could at both defending Don's new style and being just as objective where I could be...

There's no need to further the debate, but I will say this: to compare Nick Roche's style to Don Figuroa's, and Don's to Guido's doesn't make sense when you consider their skill and talent and visual flare SHOULD speak for themselves; all artists have different sensibilities and style that extend from them, E.J. Su included. Critiquing some of Alex Milne's (or other artists' not named) work comes from an understanding by many that poor page layout and/or rushed work is evident and factual when studied on its own. The same goes for writing. BUT... to be harsh and disrespectful about an art style simply because you're not comfortable with it is immature. I hardly think anyone here can do ''better'' than Don, if that's the way you want to look at it.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:32 am

Starscream6 wrote:the artwork is fresh and detailed,

I agree. I love how the art is a hybrid of classic G-1 looks with the movie TFs intricate designs.

News Credits: 1452 · Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:13 am

Less than a day after the 3 page preview of Transformers Ongoing #1, we get another article concerning the new comic series from Comic Book Resources. Andy Schmidt, editor of Transformers #1, responds to the fandom's opinion of the direction of the issue being methodical and divergent from previous Transformers series, as well as other issues regarding the comic series.

Check out Andy Schmidt's comments here. Be warned though, clicking the link will likely spoil the entire issue of Transformers ongoing. For those who do not want to see the spoilers, it will be better to wait till the issue hits news stands on November 18.

Stay tuned to Seibertron.com for the fastest up to date Transformers news.

News Credits: 5 · Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:50 am

Andy Schmidt, editor of Transformers #1, responds to the fandom's opinion of the art being methodical and divergent from previous Transformers series

I didn't spot any mention of the art style in the interview? I just saw him talking about the death and the setting on earth. Let me know if I missed it, I'm interested in what IDW has to say.

PlasmaPrime, no one was screaming 'OMG it's not G1!!!'. They were saying the art style is ugly. And I completely agree. I find your assumptions that fans don't like change very condescending. Other members pointed out that they have no problems with the movie line, yet they think this art style is ugly. I myself absolutely love Animated, which is a whole different art style for Transformers, but I find this new art direction incredibly unappealing.

Stop trying to tell people they're not fans because they don't like the art direction of the new IDW comics. It has nothing to do with being a fan, and everything to do with personal preference.

News Credits: 5 · Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:58 am

ponycorn wrote:Guys, I can't tell who is the one supposed to be narrating these first 3 pages.

Is it HotRod thinking all that? Or in the end it looks like Optimus? I don't understand.

I'm one of those eat-everything-up type fans but I'm also one of *those* type of fangirls and damnit I want their handsome faces back! With the way things are looking IDW Ongoing Megatron is going to end up looking like his face went through the same blender his Bay-Movie counterpart's went through. I guess my days of swooning over Guido Guidi's work in AHM will have to remain confined to those back issues.

I think it's Prime though I'm not entirely sure either, I expect it would become obvious on the 4th page.

Don't worry too much pony, there's The Last Stand of the Wreckers by Nick Roche to look forward to, and I also recall a Bumblebee miniseries but I don't remember who is doing the art for that.

News Credits: 97 · Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:27 am

I'm 50/50 on the artwork. I actually really like the idea of the G1 and Movie style mix. Hot Rod looks all kinds of win. I will say that the faces bug me a bit. I think they suffer from a bit too much detail really. They just look crowded and busy.

I was assuming that Prime was narrating, and the robot at the end does seem to look like Prime. But he has no smokestacks, and the Prime in the group (promo?) image had smokestacks.

News Credits: 1 · Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:33 am

PlasmaPrime wrote:There's no need to further the debate, but I will say this: to compare Nick Roche's style to Don Figuroa's, and Don's to Guido's doesn't make sense when you consider their skill and talent and visual flare SHOULD speak for themselves; all artists have different sensibilities and style that extend from them, E.J. Su included.

It makes sense just fine, in the sense of being able to point at certain styles as examples of what you think is good art and what constitutes effective storytelling and/or updating of designs.

PlasmaPrime wrote:BUT... to be harsh and disrespectful about an art style simply because you're not comfortable with it is immature.

There's nothing immature about disliking an art style and criticizing it. If anything, I think it's immature to blindly like and worship everything in a certain franchise regardless of quality.

PlasmaPrime wrote:I hardly think anyone here can do ''better'' than Don, if that's the way you want to look at it.

Grah, people really need to stop throwing this tripe out as an argument; it gets more irritating every time I see it.

I don't think anyone here is thinking they can do better than Don; the folks being critical just know this style is badly done compared to what he's done in the past and what other TF artists are currently doing.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:52 am

o.k, as a comic artist myself (low budget, stuck in england stuff) who constantly gets an emotional beating from people whinning about the horrible artwork in our books, can I just say this, hopefully in don's defense:

I hate what I am drawing for this stuff!! It's nothing like my style, I'm forced to draw rushed character (crappy)designs, the pages themselves are rushed due to the heads impatience and blatant mis-understanding of an artist- and my style has to bend to the whole aesthetic of what the context of the book is.
A lot of people in higher places don't give a rats about 'style' they just want someone capable of being a machine,and don has that talent-tried, tested, and proven. To do art of this detail on every panel is proff enough.

I don't like the art either. Don's previous work (that i've seen,)is better than this. Maybe his choice, but more likely idw as a whole.

unless his name is the only one on the art work, He's probably the least responsible for what we see simply on the surface.
People might tell me it sounds like an excuse-if anyone wants to then I'll gladly post links to what I'm made to do, and what I like to do.

News Credits: 21 · Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:08 am

i like it ill go for change g1 faces look to human to me these faces look like movie versions & more robotic to me i like the colors & there desgins i would really like to see toys made from soem of these characters if possible from hasbro

i think in the last panel it is prime in his cybertronian mode befroe he gets an earth mode with smokestacks only leadrs say till all are one correct me if im wrong about the leader part im just comparing the animated movie with the las panel preime death, ultramagnus last stand before feel apart, rodimus at the end of the movie

Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 am

I was not using that as an argument, as you may have been able to tell by the following sentence, "if that's the way you want to look at it". When you look at the extensive engineering, smooth lines, the properly thought-out proportions, and the use of making the images bolder and more dynamic through cross-hatching... it's not about KNOWING that this style is "Bad" or anything of the sort. If anything, because of the fact that very little perspective or clarity is visible, Pat Lee, Alex Milne and Rob Ruffolo would be "Bad". As I said it comes down to what a particular person is comfortable with. My qualm was with those who can't seem to accept change (the only real constant) AT ALL -- those who seem to be disgusted with every new art style of design choice; "Trukk Not Munky", threatening the lives of the 'Beast Machines' writers, hacking Bay's computer out of a hatred for so-called "Bayformers", those who belived Hasbro hit a wall with 'Animated'...

That was my beef, yet I was the one called 'condescending', and ultimately it seems like only Blurrz understood that here, interestingly enough. I have always enjoyed Don's work because it displays consistent attention to detail. 'Nuff said.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:50 am

I'll wait for the trade paper back.

News Credits: 1 · Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:47 am

I read the 3 page preview and honestly I get the impression the events in the first 2 pages are part of Hot Rod's dreaming. I've not been able to keep up w/ All Hail Megatron, I don't have all the issues yet, but I think Ironhide's death is not real. Or perhaps the computers are reading Hot Rod's memory banks and they are actual events. I think we will know for sure once the book comes out. In the meantime I'm going to search for my missing issue of AHM.

News Credits: 1 · Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:07 pm

Not a fan of the movie aestetic, so ... that's just another reason not to buy the comic, I guess. There's lots of other TF stuff out there for me.

News Credits: 1014 · Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:14 pm

Okay, I love the art. I love Don Fig anyway but his blend of G1 touched on Classiverse figs with a movie touch is just pure sweetness to me.

The only question I have is: Do I need to real AHM to understand this?

Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:20 pm

OK, why does Bumblebee have fangs?

Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:22 pm

wow so Hot Rod is responsible for Ironhide'a death indirectly? kinda like what happened with Prime in the animated movie. dude can't get a break.

and man, he got 2 Peter Cullen characters killed...man. lol

Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:30 pm

I am so ready for IDW to lose the licence to TF comics...

News Credits: 1014 · Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:43 pm

PeteJK13 wrote:I am so ready for IDW to lose the licence to TF comics...

Why? When Dreamwave had it all they did was rehash the same storylines over and over. Yeah they did great with the AEC trilogy, but Pat Lee and his TF's were horrible to me. And the stories were okay at best. Even the War Within left alot to be imagined.

At least IDW is trying to venture out of the norm, to give us something new, something else to expand on.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:50 pm

The art is great. The characters actually look a lot more intimidating and fresh. When are they going to make figures based on the idw characters? Human too? Little 1/32 humans this would be great. Of course some of the classics have come from generation designs.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:30 pm

The art is obviously base on Bayverse. I don't like it.

News Credits: 129 · Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:48 pm

The art is well,..I don't like it.

The story concepts sound good though.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:14 pm

I absolutely and totally understand why people might not like this art, but, personally, I think it's drenched in all kinds of Win! Maybe I'm in the minority here but I love the style, I love the alternative look and I LOVE that they genuinely look like robots from another planet (without going as far as the movie-verse did... on page that's always felt too busy).

Personally, this is the best style I've seen for TF since EJ. I give it my blessing. Very excited about the story as well.

Again, I get the dislike. If you're not into it, that's cool. I would recommend though giving it a shot. You never know.

I couldn't stand to miss something awesome. I wouldn't feel I'd wasted my life if it didn't deliver.

News Credits: 2 · Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:35 pm

Storywise, I'm not liking or disliking issue 1. Not terrible but not great. I am, however, perplexed by the "easy" death of Ironhide. I get the intent of killing off an important character for impact but the thought behind how to kill the character was lazy. Sure, people could say he was shot from behind, was hit in a weak spot, so on and so forth, but the visuals should be able to decently explain what happened. We simply get an image of Ironhide getting his torso excavated by a blast from behind.

If we get consistency from here on out with respect to the durability of the Transformers, then they seem to be relatively fragile for robot aliens from what should be a more technologically advanced civilization. If we don't get consistency then it's just something that will bug me and, I imagine, many other readers of the comic.

The art, overall, I'm liking. As I've said before, the faces are the weak point of Don's current style. However, the close shot of Hot Rod's face in page 3 looks great to me. The extra details shown make the design of the faces make sense to me. It's in the less detailed shots where I just don't like the facial design of the Transformers.

I love the detailing in the hybrid movie/animated style that Don is employing. It's familiar enough to make the G1 side of me happy but also has the mechanical elements that the concept design side of me appreciates. As a fan of anime involving mecha, the big/pointy chin is a good thing to me. I've read other people comment that they don't like Transformers looking too "Gundam-ish". From a visual standpoint, I don't get it. I think the mecha designs in Gundam are normally great.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:50 pm

I just thought I'd note btw:

The way I was looking at that 3 pages... I took it to be that Ironhide jumped in front of a blast intended for Hot Rod. And that's mainly because Hot Rod (or whoever the thought bubble comes from - I'm guessing Hot Rod, considering), suggested that the easiest target would be "bright orange and yellow" and that the target crosshairs were directly on him in the blue panel on page 1. At that point, Hot Rod realizes he's a complete tool - a WAR HERO just sacrificed himself for his sorry arse, without a war actually happening - and it's tearing him up inside.

Seriously... I think it's a great story! Ironhide's death is, in my mind, totally warranted to tell it.

News Credits: 1 · Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:37 pm

Agreed. I like the idea of some 'older' characters dying off and giving room for newer ones, or just to give more story archs. Personally I want to see more Rodimus Prime after all these years of Optimus. Reading the first page I thought that was Rodimus and Optimus was no more. I'm looking forward to this series regardless of the artwork, it's better than the original 80's style anyways and what they use in Animated (my opinion of course).