The Energon Pub

So the teaser for Dark of the Moon was revealed. I'm without a doubt hyped for it, being a fan of both the previous films and Transformers as a whole. Transformers was literally the first cartoon I ever watched and I try to approach each entry with an unbiased opinion.

However, where the live actions films are concerned I can honestly say I've never seen flame wars of such intensity. The amount of anger and venom spewed from both sides, especially concerning the second film, is shocking and more than a little disheartening. In regards to this, to try and get the message out before July, I've decided to post my opinion on the matter, primarilly directed at the subject of Revenge of the Fallen.

Alot of people like these movies.

Alot of people don't like these movies.

So seriously guys, stop the hate and just respect each other's opinions. The Transformers community will be a happier place if we all take a deep breath and put things in perspective before going at each other's throats.

My apologies if this seems to be flame inducing. I'll delete the post if it is. Was not my intent.

I think you might be reading into things too much.

Sure we have disagreements over the films, but honestly, what you're seeing NOW is NOTHING compared to what it was like before and after the first movie came ou.

Now unless you're referring to other forums, then I think you'll find Seibertron.com to be a pretty tame place that welcomes debates and keeps the flames to a minimum.

Burn wrote:I think you might be reading into things too much.

Sure we have disagreements over the films, but honestly, what you're seeing NOW is NOTHING compared to what it was like before and after the first movie came ou.

Now unless you're referring to other forums, then I think you'll find Seibertron.com to be a pretty tame place that welcomes debates and keeps the flames to a minimum.

Yeah I'm speaking of the internet at large. Ebert's hateful remarks toward fans of RotF, YouTubers defending the films with little concious thought, or 4chan's /tv/ board (Seriously, NEVER GO THERE!).

This is a pretty cool headed place and I've come to read these forums alot, hence why I chose to post it here.

Great post! I take this as truth. I was going to do something like this myself. We do need to stay sane, and we need to tolerate each other. If someone says they like the movies, we shouldn't yell at them because we think they like something evil. If someone says they don't like the movies, we shouldn't yell at them for being stubborn and stuck in the 80's. I'm not using this as an excuse, but the reason why I started out so radical, angry, and yelling at Bay-haters is somewhat because someone did flip out on me for just stating how much I enjoy the movieverse and how good I think it is. It is uncalled for to do something like that, as it is also uncalled for to yell at people simply for saying "I don't like the movies". (However, I will yell at people who say "the movies suck" like it's a fact)
Now, some may disagree with your point that the community would be happier if we just stopped trying to kill each other for our opinions. They may say: "NOOOO. The community would be happier if the movieverse didn't exist or if we boycott it NOW to get rid of it". I honestly have met people who have said things along these lines. It would make some people "happy", but would enrage the other side again. Whether anyone likes it or not, some of the controversial continuites do bring in money and sustain the entire Transformers brand, and many of us need to see every series in that light: if enough people like it, it is actually good for TF. Just because one hates it and a few others agree doesn't mean it is bad for TF. Enough with all that. I have a few sentences that summarize the key to TF community happiness:
1. Always state your own opinion as an opinion, never as a fact.
2. Always respect each other's opinions as long as they are stated as opinions.
3. There are just fans and non-fans. True fans do not exist.
4. Your own opinion does not represent the opinions of the entire fanbase.
5. All Transformers continuities are parts of the Transformers brand as a whole. There aren't spin-offs, fake TF series, or "not real Transformers".

Well see, in regards to Ebert, who cares what he thinks? Who cares what any of those reviewers think? In this world we live in today we have so much information readily available to us reviewers are almost redundant.

And while I have nothing against YouTube, it has unfortunately given a mouthpiece to some people that just shouldn't be heard
No, i'm not on YouTube. You lot just have to "hear" me on the forums.

Yeah ... you're gonna like these forums. We have our spats but for the most part we can respect each others opinions.

I just watched ROTF yesterday, and every time I watch it, I notice more things that people over react with when criticizing this movie. They say it's not stop loudness, and it's not. I watched it yesterday and not all of it is loud. The only loud parts are the forest scene and the final battle. It's not that bad. And every time I watch this movie, I like it a little bit more every time, as opposed to the first movie, when I watch that, it gets worse each time.

I too have a call....

FOR CHAOS!

I believe there was another thread posted here some time ago, addressing the boredom this forum or any forum for that matter would suffer if everyone got along. We need controversey really, some more then others, to keep us interested. Though I know you are addressing the heavy emotional hitters of the internet world when you cry for sanity, I would be clear in saying to have a dis-interest for the live action TF films isn't by far a lack of sanity.

I fall dead middle, with me luving the first film and dreading the second. This final film with be the deciding factor for me on the Bay TF trilogy as a whole.

~Josh

What I want to know is, what in the damn hell is wrong with liking ROTF? Thats my purpose, to find the answer to that question. What is so wrong with it? People act like it's the damn worst movie of all time. It's not even close. You want bad movies, watch Twilight. That's a piece of crap.

Joshua Vallse wrote:I too have a call....

FOR CHAOS!

I believe there was another thread posted here some time ago, addressing the boredom this forum or any forum for that matter would suffer if everyone got along. We need controversey really, some more then others, to keep us interested. Though I know you are addressing the heavy emotional hitters of the internet world when you cry for sanity, I would be clear in saying to have a dis-interest for the live action TF films isn't by far a lack of sanity.

I fall dead middle, with me luving the first film and dreading the second. This final film with be the deciding factor for me on the Bay TF trilogy as a whole.

~Josh

I'm not speaking of dis-interest in the films. Rather I speak of those who lash out on others from both sides of the liked/hated camps. Yeah controversy is good for starting discussions, but it's a far cry between controversy and a vicious verbal attack simply because you disagree with someone else.

Remember, I speak of both sides of the fandom here. No one side is innocent.

SlyTF1 wrote:What I want to know is, what in the damn hell is wrong with liking ROTF? Thats my purpose, to find the answer to that question. What is so wrong with it? People act like it's the damn worst movie of all time. It's not even close. You want bad movies, watch Twilight. That's a piece of crap.

What's so wrong with it and liking it? Everything. So go away and watch your demented evil movie.
If you know me well enough, you know I was kidding there. I don't see why it's so bad either. I didn't realize what an uproar it had caused until I joined the online community. There is no way it is as bad as some movies I've seen. But I really don't understand what's wrong with people liking it. Some have even revived the "true fan" thing on this issue. "You're not a true fan if you like RotF"..."You're not a true fan if you enjoy the movie universe"..."You're not a true fan if you think Michael Bay does good work"...and so on.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:What I want to know is, what in the damn hell is wrong with liking ROTF? Thats my purpose, to find the answer to that question. What is so wrong with it? People act like it's the damn worst movie of all time. It's not even close. You want bad movies, watch Twilight. That's a piece of crap.

What's so wrong with it and liking it? Everything. So go away and watch your demented evil movie.
If you know me well enough, you know I was kidding there. I don't see why it's so bad either. I didn't realize what an uproar it had caused until I joined the online community. There is no way it is as bad as some movies I've seen. But I really don't understand what's wrong with people liking it. Some have even revived the "true fan" thing on this issue. "You're not a true fan if you like RotF"..."You're not a true fan if you enjoy the movie universe"..."You're not a true fan if you think Michael Bay does good work"...and so on.

That's just the internet for you. I'll direct you to the following:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GIFT
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... ueScotsman

The best thing you can do to counter such opinions, the kind that speak of something wrong with you for liking what they don't, is to realize that you liked it and that's all that matters. Joe Somebody from the internet can't change that. As long as you don't fall to their level and fire back with similar tactics, you'll be fine.

Edit: As for being a fan of RotF, I've found that everyone in real life I know who's seen it liked it. Contrary to what critics seem to think, the vast majority of these fans are intelligent individuals with a good taste in movies. It's perfectly ok to see something cerebral like Inception, then turn around and watch a brainless action film like RotF.

Capt.Failure wrote:Edit: As for being a fan of RotF, I've found that everyone in real life I know who's seen it liked it. Contrary to what critics seem to think, the vast majority of these fans are intelligent individuals with a good taste in movies. It's perfectly ok to see something cerebral like Inception, then turn around and watch a brainless action film like RotF.

Right on!

The movie has flaws, but it also has some great moments. At the end of the day, it's a popcorn flick, nothing more, nothing less. A friend of mine likes Bad Boys but does not like Bad Boys II. I prefer Bad Boys II. My friend likes the first Transformers movie for the comedy bits (Bernie Mac, etc.), I like it for the giant robots. As for RotF, I find it just as watchable as Independence Day. I love watching that movie, and I tend to catch at least part of it whenever it's on (a lot, lately). It's a great popcorn flick.

I hope DotM will be a better movie, but if all it ends up being is a great popcorn flick, I'll still enjoy it. At the end of the day, I think it will make a lot of money, and I think the majority of movie goers who went to see RotF did not regret it and will return with new watchers to see DotM. This is the end of a trilogy. Sometimes the best film is the first. Sometimes the best is the middle. Rarely is the best the end. But in this case, the end may be as good as the first, and that would be a big win for Bay and his team.

Capt.Failure wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:What I want to know is, what in the damn hell is wrong with liking ROTF? Thats my purpose, to find the answer to that question. What is so wrong with it? People act like it's the damn worst movie of all time. It's not even close. You want bad movies, watch Twilight. That's a piece of crap.

What's so wrong with it and liking it? Everything. So go away and watch your demented evil movie.
If you know me well enough, you know I was kidding there. I don't see why it's so bad either. I didn't realize what an uproar it had caused until I joined the online community. There is no way it is as bad as some movies I've seen. But I really don't understand what's wrong with people liking it. Some have even revived the "true fan" thing on this issue. "You're not a true fan if you like RotF"..."You're not a true fan if you enjoy the movie universe"..."You're not a true fan if you think Michael Bay does good work"...and so on.

That's just the internet for you. I'll direct you to the following:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GIFT
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... ueScotsman

The best thing you can do to counter such opinions, the kind that speak of something wrong with you for liking what they don't, is to realize that you liked it and that's all that matters. Joe Somebody from the internet can't change that. As long as you don't fall to their level and fire back with similar tactics, you'll be fine.

Edit: As for being a fan of RotF, I've found that everyone in real life I know who's seen it liked it. Contrary to what critics seem to think, the vast majority of these fans are intelligent individuals with a good taste in movies. It's perfectly ok to see something cerebral like Inception, then turn around and watch a brainless action film like RotF.

But it's not brainless. That's the main problem I have with people not liking it. It has symbolism and references to ancient Egyptian myths up my ass, even the Bible and no one ever notices. People don't see it and it's bright as freaking day in the movie. And still every one says it is brainless. I just don't get it. Maybe I over analyze things (and I know I do, every time I see something I think of the individual atoms or cells that make it.) but still, it's there.

SlyTF1 wrote:You want bad movies, watch Twilight. That's a piece of crap.

Well, that's your opinion.

What's wrong with Twilight, huh?

Red 50 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:You want bad movies, watch Twilight. That's a piece of crap.

Well, that's your opinion.

What's wrong with Twilight, huh?

Vampires sparkle.

SlyTF1 wrote:

Red 50 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:You want bad movies, watch Twilight. That's a piece of crap.

Well, that's your opinion.

What's wrong with Twilight, huh?

Vampires sparkle.

The question was more pointing out the inherently neutral nature of opinions. Obviously Twilight is stupidly popular for a reason, just like Transformers. I may hate Twilight with the burning rage of a thousand exploding suns but I will never call someone else out for their enjoyment of it. That's their opinion and choice, and it's my duty to respect that.

Capt.Failure wrote:The question was more pointing out the inherently neutral nature of opinions. Obviously Twilight is stupidly popular for a reason, just like Transformers. I may hate Twilight with the burning rage of a thousand exploding suns but I will never call someone else out for their enjoyment of it. That's their opinion and choice, and it's my duty to respect that.

I'll happily disagree with that. I'll most certainly call someone out for their enjoyment of Twilight, and then strap them down to a chair and force them to watch The Lost Boys.

This, of course, is excluding the highschool tween girl demograph.

Joshua Vallse wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:The question was more pointing out the inherently neutral nature of opinions. Obviously Twilight is stupidly popular for a reason, just like Transformers. I may hate Twilight with the burning rage of a thousand exploding suns but I will never call someone else out for their enjoyment of it. That's their opinion and choice, and it's my duty to respect that.

I'll happily disagree with that. I'll most certainly call someone out for their enjoyment of Twilight, and then strap them down to a chair and force them to watch The Lost Boys.

This, of course, is excluding the highschool tween girl demograph.

Isn't that the whole freking fan base for Twilight?

SlyTF1 wrote:Isn't that the whole freking fan base for Twilight?

*Shakes head*

Sadly......no

I don't think people get picked on in real life for collecting the figures as much as movie fans act like they're persecuted for being movie fans. You don't have to like every single element of any franchise to be counted as a fan of the franchise, but life is a pretty tough road to hoe if you get all upset because everyone does not share your appreciation of something. For crying out loud, we're talking about robots on the Internet, but we get upset that we're not the cool kids?

At this point, you do realize that it's nothing but self-parody, right? We're not really being serious anymore, right?

SlyTF1 wrote:

Red 50 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:You want bad movies, watch Twilight. That's a piece of crap.

Well, that's your opinion.

What's wrong with Twilight, huh?

Vampires sparkle.

So? Maybe they are just some other tribe of Vampires who Don't incinerate in the sunlight!

Haven't you seen Blade-trilogy? They had many different vampire tribes who had different features and abilities. Even Drake(Dracula) was anti-sunlight vampire: meaning he didn't burn in sunlight.

Edward's sparkle was probably just a minor side-effect to his diet and sunlight-immunity.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:If someone says they don't like the movies, we shouldn't yell at them for being stubborn and stuck in the 80's.

Or how about not label them at all, like "being stubborn and stuck in the 80's." Get over yourself. Just because some people don't like the movies, doesn't mean they're stubborn or stuck in the 80s. I liked the first film, didn't care for parts of the second. My opinion. Doesn't make me stubborn just because I disagree with you. Should I call you ignorant just because you weren't even around in the 80s to appreciate G1? No. And I won't. So stop calling people names just because they have a different opinion of a continuity.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:If someone says they don't like the movies, we shouldn't yell at them for being stubborn and stuck in the 80's.

Or how about not label them at all, like "being stubborn and stuck in the 80's." Get over yourself. Just because some people don't like the movies, doesn't mean they're stubborn or stuck in the 80s. I liked the first film, didn't care for parts of the second. My opinion. Doesn't make me stubborn just because I disagree with you. Should I call you ignorant just because you weren't even around in the 80s to appreciate G1? No. And I won't. So stop calling people names just because they have a different opinion of a continuity.

Actually, I do believe what he said wasn't meant to be inflamatory, just worded wrong. Granted I could be wrong too, but I didn't read any hostile intent.

Capt.Failure wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:If someone says they don't like the movies, we shouldn't yell at them for being stubborn and stuck in the 80's.

Or how about not label them at all, like "being stubborn and stuck in the 80's." Get over yourself. Just because some people don't like the movies, doesn't mean they're stubborn or stuck in the 80s. I liked the first film, didn't care for parts of the second. My opinion. Doesn't make me stubborn just because I disagree with you. Should I call you ignorant just because you weren't even around in the 80s to appreciate G1? No. And I won't. So stop calling people names just because they have a different opinion of a continuity.

Actually, I do believe what he said wasn't meant to be inflamatory, just worded wrong. Granted I could be wrong too, but I didn't read any hostile intent.

Maybe so, but unfortunately OM10 created a similar thread to this and has made it no secret that he doesn't like being "vicitimsed" as someone who likes the movie.

Frankly i'm tired of it all. Everyone needs to just get the hell over it. You like it or you don't. One side is as bad as the other. So yes, everyone, just get the hell over it and learn to respect the opinions of others even if they differ greatly from yours.

Red 50 wrote:So? Maybe they are just some other tribe of Vampires who Don't incinerate in the sunlight!

Haven't you seen Blade-trilogy? They had many different vampire tribes who had different features and abilities. Even Drake(Dracula) was anti-sunlight vampire: meaning he didn't burn in sunlight.

Edward's sparkle was probably just a minor side-effect to his diet and sunlight-immunity.

While it IS true some Vampires are immune to sunlight (Carmilla and Dracula, who popularized the genre, were both immune to sunlight, at least in their original books, thought it weakened them greatly), the way Twilight portrayed Vampires was just straight-up wrong. Stephenie Meyer even admitted having absolutely NO knowledge of Vampire lore when she wrote the books. Werewolves in the Twilight books are just as bad.

Back on topic: I can see where people who hate the movies are coming from. I see all the little flaws they're talking about and I recognize it. I like the movie regardless, but I can see why people wouldn't like it and I accept that. It's a pity few people can be like that.

And Distressed Watcher? Saying people should be rounded up into concentration camps for liking Revenge of the Fallen? You are a skid mark on ThatGuyWithTheGlasses.