The Energon Pub

Dark Zarak wrote:From terms of cinematography, it was god-awful. Bad writing with plotholes the size of texas. "Let's take the cube and hide it in the city!" I'm almost sure that was the exact line.

How stupid can you get.

The TF's were probably the most visually impressive thing I've seen on screen in my life. And I can appreciate the process because I'm going into the field.

Too bad they transformed too quick to watch, and you have to look at a bloody artwork to see what they actually looked like.


The human characters were annoying and stupid, the humor insultingly childish and retarded, and the action editing senseless, shaky, and loud.

Yeah, I'm pretty depressed.

In YOUR opinion it was all of those things.

Imo, at this rate, things may take a turn for the worse (just my opinion of what is worse, not claiming to claim my opinion of worse is the right one), and 90% (again imo; 90% is an estimate and not a scientifically proven amount) of all posts will be filled with constant disclaimers spelling things out as if all readers are 5 year olds (again based only on my opinion of what a 5 year old's intelligence is, not actually basing it on the actual proven IQ of 5 year olds in any given country) in case someone thinks I may believe I'm speaking proven fact.

Jumping on people who say "this killed Transformers", "most fans hate the movie" or "only fans like the movie", is good. They're claiming to speak for multiple people or stating factual statistics that aren't proven.

Jumping on people who state what is obviously opinion as it only can be opinion until they then have to consider every word just in case someone get's snarky, is anal and just sucks fun out of forums.

I mean how many times did movie haters jump into movie threads when someone said something rocked or was good to point out that they spoke their opinion like fact just because they hated the movie and were being douche bags?

Too many, and every time it annoyed people because it was unneccessary fanboyism.
Acting like them makes you just as big a fanboy, but worse, it makes some of you hypocrites.

What, are humans just gonna sit back and watch while the robots blow up cities?

Go away, you troll.

Dark Zarak wrote:From terms of cinematography, it was god-awful. Bad writing with plotholes the size of texas. "Let's take the cube and hide it in the city!" I'm almost sure that was the exact line.

How stupid can you get.

The TF's were probably the most visually impressive thing I've seen on screen in my life. And I can appreciate the process because I'm going into the field.

Too bad they transformed too quick to watch, and you have to look at a bloody artwork to see what they actually looked like.


The human characters were annoying and stupid, the humor insultingly childish and retarded, and the action editing senseless, shaky, and loud.

Yeah, I'm pretty depressed.

Agreed.

I dont want Bay touching this thing again. The first one was bad enough. Hell, I would rather watch Armagedon than another Bay TF movie.

The photography was "awful", explain as it all looked great to me and im not just some random fanboy either, i know what im talking about when it comes to movies.

I hope "Depressed" is a bad choice of words. If you're perpetually down, or upset over a director for a movie, then that's incredibly F'Ing sad. Here's the deal: You don't like MIchael Bay, don't watch the movie. You don't have to. Just because it has "Transformers" on it, and you're a fan of Transformers doesn't mean it's mandatory for you to see it. I wish OTHER PEOPLE would realise that as well. I'm tired of people who bitch about character designs and diorectors, and other petty crap getting pissed off. It won't kill the franchise, and there's gonna be other Transformers stuff in the future. Life goes on, deal with it.

Quick shots that barely show and good detail even in the IMAX version is terrible photography.

Sonray wrote:"Am I the only person who is depressed about Bay doing TF2?"

Yes.

Bay has set the tone and benchmark for the series now, and for him not to return for the sequels would be like the Wachowski Brothers not returning for the Matrix sequels, or Lord Of The Rings and Peter Jackson, etc etc.

I was more than impressed by the movie and i simply cant wait for whats next.

You're awesome, Sonray!

I'm glad someone here is supporting Michael Bay.

Dark Zarak wrote:Quick shots that barely show and good detail even in the IMAX version is terrible photography.

Really? And you would know better because you are a director of photography?

In reality shots like that are used to give a sense of speed and make the action seem by showing you more. They don't work in some films but in a Bay flick the movie wouldn't work without them.

As far as lighting and how each shot was set up most of it was pretty good apart from a few mistakes where i could see the camera shadow.

ZeroZero wrote:

Sonray wrote:"Am I the only person who is depressed about Bay doing TF2?"

Yes.

Bay has set the tone and benchmark for the series now, and for him not to return for the sequels would be like the Wachowski Brothers not returning for the Matrix sequels, or Lord Of The Rings and Peter Jackson, etc etc.

I was more than impressed by the movie and i simply cant wait for whats next.

You're awesome, Sonray!

I'm glad someone here is supporting Michael Bay.

Thanks. Unlike most of the stuck up, snot nosed film "critics" here i like his films for what they always claim to be and nothing more: Blockbusting ,action-filled popcorn flicks.

When people get that through their thick skulls and stop expecting some artsy fartsy, or Oscar-winning director to take the helm of a film about toy robots whose whole basic underlying plot line is as simple as George W Bush (i.e giant robots kicking the shite out of each other) then these forums will be a better place.

If you want a deep, involving, complicated and award winning film: WATCH SOMETHING ELSE THAT ISN'T ABOUT GIANT ROBOTS THAT TRANSFORM THAT ARE BASED ON A KIDS TOY!

This whole attitude of thinking that Transformers needs to be some deep and involving saga just makes me want to

When people get that through their thick skulls and stop expecting some artsy fartsy, or Oscar-winning director to take the helm of a film about toy robots whose whole basic underlying plot line is as simple as George W Bush (i.e giant robots kicking the shite out of each other) then these forums will be a better place.

If you want a deep, involving, complicated and award winning film: WATCH SOMETHING ELSE THAT ISN'T ABOUT GIANT ROBOTS THAT TRANSFORM THAT ARE BASED ON A KIDS TOY!

This whole attitude of thinking that Transformers needs to be some deep and involving saga just makes me want to
.

Ya I know what you mean. This whole attitude of thinking that Transformers can only, or has to, be nothing more than a dumb action filled popcorn movie just make me want to . I mean where do people get off having expectations, hope of something better than a dumb action flick, not just liking whatever hollywood crap thats spoon fed to them. Once people get that though their thick skulls, this forum will be SO much better.

There is a happy medium between completely stupid and badly written, and oscar winning.

Die Hard, for instance, is the perfect example of a good action movie.

Starscreams bad comedy wrote:

When people get that through their thick skulls and stop expecting some artsy fartsy, or Oscar-winning director to take the helm of a film about toy robots whose whole basic underlying plot line is as simple as George W Bush (i.e giant robots kicking the shite out of each other) then these forums will be a better place.

If you want a deep, involving, complicated and award winning film: WATCH SOMETHING ELSE THAT ISN'T ABOUT GIANT ROBOTS THAT TRANSFORM THAT ARE BASED ON A KIDS TOY!

This whole attitude of thinking that Transformers needs to be some deep and involving saga just makes me want to
.

Ya I know what you mean. This whole attitude of thinking that Transformers can only, or has to, be nothing more than a dumb action filled popcorn movie just make me want to . I mean where do people get off having expectations, hope of something better than a dumb action flick, not just liking whatever hollywood crap thats spoon fed to them. Once people get that though their thick skulls, this forum will be SO much better.

Oh so you think that transformers has always been a part of high brow culture?

Get over yourself. It has never, never is, never has and never will be nothing more than a dumb, fun action movie/series of cartoons.

To expect anything more is totally idiotic. Like i said, if you want high-brow entertainment, go and watch something other than a movie based on a kids toy intended purely to make millions of bucks.

Bottom line: Get real.

Dark Zarak wrote:There is a happy medium between completely stupid and badly written, and oscar winning.

Die Hard, for instance, is the perfect example of a good action movie.

Yes there is a happy medium and Transformers is in that medium. What you may think is totally stupid and badly written someone else might think is fantastic. Same goes for Die hard. Someone might think that was a load of crap, others will consider it one of the best action movies ever made (like me).

What you people need to learn is to stop expecting a subject matter like Transformers to ever be anything more than a simple action flick/toy line made to fill the pockets of fat studio execs/and cooperate machines, and not a standard setting evolutionary piece of film making like Die Hard.

Sonray wrote:Really? And you would know better because you are a director of photography?

Haha, fanboyism at it's finest.

First you pick on someone who states an obvious opinion for not including "in my opinion", then when he does express his opinion, you play the "your opinion is not as informed" card.

I know why Bay does what he does, but I still think it's poor and that other directors can achieve what he does better.
He himself has aknowledged that not everyone likes his style.
It's a taste issue, and Bay has, since day one, had as many who dislike his style as he does those that do.

Sonray wrote:Get over yourself. It has never, never is, never has and never will be nothing more than a dumb, fun action movie/series of cartoons.

In your opinion.

Factually, there was way more.

The G1 comic was based on the same children's toy line and offered a deeper, involving and complicated story.
It was more successful too, as it lasted from 1984 til 1991, something the free show came nowhere near.

They didn't use the fact it's a toyline as an excuse to make dumb, no brain crap (except in the middle where Budiansky had a strop) and it lasted longer.
Not only that, but it's complicated involving stuff, such as Primus/Unicron and the religious aspects, the organic aspect, the swarm etc, went on to shape everything since Beast Wars which is why the franchise is even alive today and why the name was strong enough to scrape through and get a movie.

Just because that was YOUR experience doesn't mean that's all there was.

Or are you going to suggest we like it wrong?

CHILDREN'S TOYLINE DOES NOT MEAN WITHOUT DEPTH.

Just as some expect too much, want Full Metal Jacket with robots, you expect too little, something like the G1 show, creatively the weakest TF fiction ever that we used to mock at 8 years old for being stupid.

And that's not from a highbrow snob, that's froma guy who spends most of his TV time watching children's cartoons.

Just as some expect too much, want Full Metal Jacket with robots

Ok going with this premise, who is going to play the drill instructor?

Lycantendencies wrote:

Sonray wrote:Really? And you would know better because you are a director of photography?

Haha, fanboyism at it's finest.

First you pick on someone who states an obvious opinion for not including "in my opinion", then when he does express his opinion, you play the "your opinion is not as informed" card.

I know why Bay does what he does, but I still think it's poor and that other directors can achieve what he does better.
He himself has aknowledged that not everyone likes his style.
It's a taste issue, and Bay has, since day one, had as many who dislike his style as he does those that do.

Exactly!
So everyone stop acting like having an opposing taste means you are factually right about everything, which is what most 2007 movie haters tend to forget. That is my main problem here, and i also couldn't care less if you call me a fan boy. If anything i appreciate it as it isn't a negative thing IMO, so i am sorry you failed to insult me.

And i don't agree with the rest of your comment. At the end of the day the subject matter is still just based off a kids toy, and thus it can NEVER, EVER, nor ever has been a high brow piece of film making or philosophy. It is only, and was only ever intended to entertain and the fact remains it is still doing that to this day.

800 million at the box office is obvious proof that people found the movie entertaining and embraced this new continuity of the franchise. You don't get stats like that if it "sucked because Micheal Bay directed it and the camera was too shaky, waah waah" (that there is fanboyism btw, but not in a positive sense.) now do ya?

<i>At the end of the day the subject matter is still just based off a kids toy, and thus it can NEVER, EVER, nor ever has been a high brow piece of film making or philosophy.</i>

Thats like saying because the old Batman tv series was full of camp and cheese that it can NEVER ever be serious or dark or "high brow"....then explain to me what the hell Batman Begins was? I mean come on its based off a comic book about a guy in a bat outfit flying around and fighting criminals in equally ridiculous outfits, surely this can never have a serious tone or adult sense to it, its only for kids.

Sonray wrote:So everyone stop acting like having an opposing taste means you are factually right about everything

Nobody was. The closest was you and one of the anti movie speakers saying you know what you're talking about, which implies (intentionally or not) that you're more qualified to speak or have better informed opinions, but no one else stated an opinion as fact.
A few people didn't say "imo" but unless you actually believe that the words good or bad are factual, there's no way you can mistake their opinion for statement of fact.

Sonray wrote:At the end of the day the subject matter is still just based off a kids toy, and thus it can NEVER, EVER, nor ever has been a high brow piece of film making or philosophy. It is only, and was only ever intended to entertain and the fact remains it is still doing that to this day.

Not high brow, just not dumbed down.

Here's one way to sum it up.
In G1 show, Grimlock was a Dinosaur so he was dumb. It was that simple. Dinosaurs are dumb, he was one, so they made him dumb.
They also built him as a dino in modern times, which made no sense.

In the G1 comic, Grimlock was highly intelligent.
However, he saw intelligence as a weakness. Intelligence leads to overthinking, reconsidering, hesitation.
So he acted stupid, impulsively, so as to never allow himself to give in to weakness. Nor be exploited.
The Me as opposed to I was to make him appear stupid to others, but he told his collegues who knew better that there'd been a glitch when he was reformatted and it affected his speech.
Oh, and he wasn't a dinosaur built in modern day. The Ark built them in prehistoric times, where they battled Shockwave.

He still kicked ass, it was still "ME Grimlock" smashing stuff up like a badass, it was still entertaining, but there was actual character with motivations, plots and arcs where he grew and developed.

Everything in the comic was handled in this way.
That's not highbrow, it's just decent writing in a children's comic.

It took on religion, and that went on to be used in BW/A/E/C.
It took on other issues too.
Whilst the show blew things up without consequence, the comic introduced us to actual casualties.
Whilst Archeville was putting chips in heads in easily reversable mind contol schemes, Proffessor Morris was using Swoop to murder a security guard.
And he went on to help the Autobots as a good guy.
That's not highbrow, it's doing things like other comics such as X-Men or Batman, in a universal way that credits it's audience with intelligence.

Like I said, if you grew up with the very simplified version of TF that the show delivered, that's your experience.
But many of us had a much different experience. Not an imaginary one, one that they gave us.

You can think it shouldn't have been like that all you want, but it was.
It outlasted the simple cartoon , it went on to inspire the series that kept TF going and it is a big part of Transformers.

It has as much right to be included as the big flashy explosions and high speed car chases.

Sonray wrote:800 million at the box office is obvious proof that people found the movie entertaining and embraced this new continuity of the franchise. You don't get stats like that if it "sucked because Micheal Bay directed it and the camera was too shaky, waah waah" (that there is fanboyism btw, but not in a positive sense.) now do ya?

Yes you do. It's called personal taste.

Would you honestly say that artistically, creatively, muscially, the Crazy Frog was good?
It was imaginative and funny originally, and kids loved the Frog himself.
And it was these things that made him popular, and through that highly successful financially.
That doesn't mean that the allegations of lazy, unoriginal, etc were wrong. It was these things too.

The movie is like that. It is undoubtedly popular, it does some things right for a great many people, but it gets a lot wrong for a great many people too.

Also, Bay has been attacked since he first made films for shaky camera work.
Again, among that 800 million dollars you bring up there are people who both liked and disliked the film who critisized the camera work.

Are they all fanboys?

*sigh*
I cant be bothered with these TF movie arguments anymore. Its almost 2am, im tired and its just constantly the same bollocks repeated and recycled over and over again. No one is willing to listen to sense, no one is willing to make any either.

I'm just glad that Bay is coming back, and things are gonna stay the way they are. Thank goodness he doesn't come to these forums...

Sonray wrote:*sigh*
I cant be bothered with these TF movie arguments anymore. Its almost 2am, im tired and its just constantly the same bollocks repeated and recycled over and over again. No one blindly agrees with me, no one is willing to change their mind and do so either.

I'm just glad that Bay is coming back, and things are gonna stay the way they are. Thank goodness he doesn't come to these forums...

Fixed.

homelessjunkeon wrote:

Sonray wrote:*sigh*
I cant be bothered with these TF movie arguments anymore. Its almost 2am, im tired and its just constantly the same bollocks repeated and recycled over and over again. No one blindly agrees with me, no one is willing to change their mind and do so either.

I'm just glad that Bay is coming back, and things are gonna stay the way they are. Thank goodness he doesn't come to these forums...

Fixed.

Go away. It was broken to begin with before i even got here and tried to talk some sense into you people.

Have a good life by trying to fool yourselves into thinking Transformers should be more than its intended to be.

homelessjunkeon wrote:

A round of applause for the troll please.

Sonray wrote:Have a good life by trying to fool yourselves into thinking Transformers should be more than its intended to be.

You are the first one to jump on people that state opinion as fact, yet you are the only one doing so.

I have told you why Transformers is more for many than it was for you.
I have offered evidence to support this.

You have not disproven or even debated any evidence, just ignored it and continued to repeat the same opinion that it is not more than you got from as though it is fact, tell us we're deluding ourselves.

Then you start whining about us not seeing sense.
All the suddenly, your view becomes the sensible one and anyone who doesn't agree is not seeing sense, laiming to be of the "right" opinion and we of the "wrong" one.

You can't even accept a differing view as different but equally valid.
You insult us by calling us deluded.
You refuse to debate the points.

You're being a troll.

Please stop.