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Sabrblade wrote:Hence why his logic is faulty.Doctor McGrath wrote:Yes, by that logic they are unnecessary.
Solid gray figures with no color (besides gray)...Doctor McGrath wrote:I think a lot of people feel that way about their deluxe Cannonball too. And yes, I'd go with solid dark gray over bright red any day of the week.
Yeah, that sounds exciting.
I just don't understand how it makes sense to make and sell a set gray prototype-looking figures as high-end collector-oriented products that are supposed to have premium grade color schemes.Doctor McGrath wrote:Maybe not exciting(I don't think red is either), but it makes more sense to me at least.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:Oh come on. Now you're just looking for things to complain about. Of all of the CW mold heads out there, that one is closest to any of these character's heads. It's practically dead on with the same overall helmet shape.Genericon #378 wrote:Speaking of retooling, I'm appalled that they chose to not retool Cicadacon's head.
Sabrblade wrote:I just don't understand how it makes sense to make and sell a set gray prototype-looking figures as high-end collector-oriented products that are supposed to have premium grade color schemes.Doctor McGrath wrote:Maybe not exciting(I don't think red is either), but it makes more sense to me at least.
*cut pictures for space
Doctor McGrath wrote:Sabrblade wrote:I just don't understand how it makes sense to make and sell a set gray prototype-looking figures as high-end collector-oriented products that are supposed to have premium grade color schemes.Doctor McGrath wrote:Maybe not exciting(I don't think red is either), but it makes more sense to me at least.
*cut pictures for space
You're arguing just to argue. They'd be gray bc that's screen accurate. 3 gray transformers walked up to that table. They can still have paint apps on the face & to bring out details. Just bc a TF is gray doesn't make it look like a prototype.
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Doctor McGrath wrote:Sabrblade wrote:I just don't understand how it makes sense to make and sell a set gray prototype-looking figures as high-end collector-oriented products that are supposed to have premium grade color schemes.Doctor McGrath wrote:Maybe not exciting(I don't think red is either), but it makes more sense to me at least.
*cut pictures for space
You're arguing just to argue. They'd be gray bc that's screen accurate. 3 gray transformers walked up to that table. They can still have paint apps on the face & to bring out details. Just bc a TF is gray doesn't make it look like a prototype.
But it would make it look plain, which is a sin for any designer. Besides, I'd expect the casual fan to accept the red as their dominant colors no matter the circumstance, like the color of the lighting. Keeping that in mind, when a figure looks good, it sells better, perceived show-accuracy be damned.
william-james88 wrote:If ever Sabrblade decides to go on vacation, I am glad to know we can rely on you.
Doctor McGrath wrote:I agree some expectations are too high. That's saying it nicely. But, without critique, how is the Club ever going to get better? If all we ever did was pat them on the back, what would they learn from us? Without differentiating opinions, this thread would be pretty boring. Also, just bc someone points out a negative, or critiques something about the figure, doesn't mean that the product as a whole is bad.
All that said, I know we as fans, myself included, don't always give critiques in a constructive manner & more often than not post comments that do nothing to advance an ongoing debate or add anything positive to a discussion. But, I dont agree that we should just be happy bc we are getting something.
william-james88 wrote:Am I the only one who feels kind of bad for the club right now? Hasbro has given little to no indication that they are doing something for Beast Wars' 20th anniversary and so the Club steps in to make it happen for us fans, giving us show accurate interpretations we never had before and using the best combiner system the TF Brand has ever had to homage a Beast Wars combiner.
And what do we do, we pee all over it, on the official Club boards no less, where the very same guys who came up with these figures actually post stuff for us fans to get excited about. They are reading all these comments from the fans they were hoping to please, and I have no clue how they feel right now. Here's hoping they have thick skin. Instead of arguing and nagging on about things that just cant happen (like wanting new molds from a second party company, really?!), we should be asking some questions and using this board to its advantage.
I'll give it a shot:
TF_JW if you are reading this, THESE ARE PRETTY GREAT
And thanks Hellscream, I saw them more as stripes, like on a tiger. Glad you caught that, I bet the club will be happy!
william-james88 wrote:If ever Sabrblade decides to go on vacation, I am glad to know we can rely on you.
Doctor McGrath wrote:I agree some expectations are too high. That's saying it nicely. But, without critique, how is the Club ever going to get better? If all we ever did was pat them on the back, what would they learn from us? Without differentiating opinions, this thread would be pretty boring. Also, just bc someone points out a negative, or critiques something about the figure, doesn't mean that the product as a whole is bad.
All that said, I know we as fans, myself included, don't always give critiques in a constructive manner & more often than not post comments that do nothing to advance an ongoing debate or add anything positive to a discussion. But, I dont agree that we should just be happy bc we are getting something.
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Doctor McGrath wrote:I agree some expectations are too high. That's saying it nicely. But, without critique, how is the Club ever going to get better? If all we ever did was pat them on the back, what would they learn from us? Without differentiating opinions, this thread would be pretty boring. Also, just bc someone points out a negative, or critiques something about the figure, doesn't mean that the product as a whole is bad.
All that said, I know we as fans, myself included, don't always give critiques in a constructive manner & more often than not post comments that do nothing to advance an ongoing debate or add anything positive to a discussion. But, I dont agree that we should just be happy bc we are getting something.
In the end, some people just don't feel like saying "good enough". I do appreciate the effort and creativity that went in this given some of the constraints, but I will freely admit that Ravage and Tarantulas will look off in the combined form, unless they're the arms, giving "Predacus" a unified deco top to bottom.
william-james88 wrote:If ever Sabrblade decides to go on vacation, I am glad to know we can rely on you.
william-james88 wrote:Doctor McGrath wrote:I agree some expectations are too high. That's saying it nicely. But, without critique, how is the Club ever going to get better? If all we ever did was pat them on the back, what would they learn from us? Without differentiating opinions, this thread would be pretty boring. Also, just bc someone points out a negative, or critiques something about the figure, doesn't mean that the product as a whole is bad.
All that said, I know we as fans, myself included, don't always give critiques in a constructive manner & more often than not post comments that do nothing to advance an ongoing debate or add anything positive to a discussion. But, I dont agree that we should just be happy bc we are getting something.
I wasnt talking about constructive critique. I think your discussion on colour choice is awesome (though super nerdy, but hey thats why we are all here). I was referring to the expectations of getting new molds and people simply saying that these were the worst (the non constructive criticism).
william-james88 wrote:If ever Sabrblade decides to go on vacation, I am glad to know we can rely on you.
william-james88 wrote:Doctor McGrath wrote:I agree some expectations are too high. That's saying it nicely. But, without critique, how is the Club ever going to get better? If all we ever did was pat them on the back, what would they learn from us? Without differentiating opinions, this thread would be pretty boring. Also, just bc someone points out a negative, or critiques something about the figure, doesn't mean that the product as a whole is bad.
All that said, I know we as fans, myself included, don't always give critiques in a constructive manner & more often than not post comments that do nothing to advance an ongoing debate or add anything positive to a discussion. But, I dont agree that we should just be happy bc we are getting something.
I wasnt talking about constructive critique. I think your discussion on colour choice is awesome (though super nerdy, but hey thats why we are all here). I was referring to the expectations of getting new molds and people simply saying that these were the worst (the non constructive criticism).
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Doctor McGrath wrote:I agree some expectations are too high. That's saying it nicely. But, without critique, how is the Club ever going to get better? If all we ever did was pat them on the back, what would they learn from us? Without differentiating opinions, this thread would be pretty boring. Also, just bc someone points out a negative, or critiques something about the figure, doesn't mean that the product as a whole is bad.
All that said, I know we as fans, myself included, don't always give critiques in a constructive manner & more often than not post comments that do nothing to advance an ongoing debate or add anything positive to a discussion. But, I dont agree that we should just be happy bc we are getting something.
In the end, some people just don't feel like saying "good enough". I do appreciate the effort and creativity that went in this given some of the constraints, but I will freely admit that Ravage and Tarantulas will look off in the combined form, unless they're the arms, giving "Predacus" a unified deco top to bottom.
Doctor McGrath wrote:I agree some expectations are too high. That's saying it nicely. But, without critique, how is the Club ever going to get better? If all we ever did was pat them on the back, what would they learn from us? Without differentiating opinions, this thread would be pretty boring. Also, just bc someone points out a negative, or critiques something about the figure, doesn't mean that the product as a whole is bad.
All that said, I know we as fans, myself included, don't always give critiques in a constructive manner & more often than not post comments that do nothing to advance an ongoing debate or add anything positive to a discussion. But, I dont agree that we should just be happy bc we are getting something.
Doctor McGrath wrote:Right on man. I didn't feel like you were attacking me & I honestly wasn't trying to disagree with you. I just wanted to add to it a little bit so people werent thinking everything had to be all rainbows & butterflies.
Hellscream9999 wrote:Uh, yeah, a whole lotta unnecessary craziness goin' on here; but uh, to Will, or whomever asked, there are painted lobster legs on the arms so the vehicle looks like it has 'legs'.
I actually like him for some reason, I also don't mind the use of the silverbolt base mold either. It yeilds the most solid combiner torso which means that the combined mode should be epic. But I do wonder if they will try to emulate the tripredacus head, or go with something new
william-james88 wrote:Doctor McGrath wrote:Right on man. I didn't feel like you were attacking me & I honestly wasn't trying to disagree with you. I just wanted to add to it a little bit so people werent thinking everything had to be all rainbows & butterflies.
Perfect! And I totally agree. This is the place to be critical and to discuss opinions but there are also limits before its no longer fun to read and follow. It's not always easy to find a balance but I think we here at Seibertron are a smart bunch overall
william-james88 wrote:If ever Sabrblade decides to go on vacation, I am glad to know we can rely on you.
Nemesis Primal wrote:Hellscream9999 wrote:Uh, yeah, a whole lotta unnecessary craziness goin' on here; but uh, to Will, or whomever asked, there are painted lobster legs on the arms so the vehicle looks like it has 'legs'.
I actually like him for some reason, I also don't mind the use of the silverbolt base mold either. It yeilds the most solid combiner torso which means that the combined mode should be epic. But I do wonder if they will try to emulate the tripredacus head, or go with something new
They look like stripes to me. It's not nearly as big a thing as Cicadon's wings. (Though honestly, Cicadon's wings work for me.) Besides, there are jets in the real world with shark face nose art, so painting your vehicle mode to evoke lobster legs or bug wings doesn't strike me as that different.
william-james88 wrote:If ever Sabrblade decides to go on vacation, I am glad to know we can rely on you.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:To make my case fully clear, I'm not fully satisfied by this set. There are a number of things about this set that I don't like and wish had been done differently.
That said, I also understand what they were trying to do with this set, and appreciate some/most of the efforts that were put into making it the way they did (other efforts I feel could have been served better via alternative means than those we got).
I look at this set and I see flaws. But I also see pros. The good and the bad. As Will stated, it is disheartening to see so many viewing only the bad point and (whether intentionally or unintentionally) overlooking the good points.
And it isn't just with this year's set. This kind of thing happens on this board virtually every year. So much vitriol. So much venom. It's come to the point where it's as though this board's general reaction to BotCon toy reveals is an anticipation for failures and abominations. Sometimes I wonder how and why this board, of all of them, was given the honor and privilege of becoming the official home for the Transformers Collectors Club Forum. With how ugly and spiteful the overall attitude of so much of this board tends to be towards TCC toy reveals, it is astounding that we deserved such an honor.
To be clear, I am not saying that every single person on this board is like this, I'm speaking more in a generalizing sense. But that the overall impression of there being more negative than positive reactions towards TCC toys on this board every year is, as I sad, really disheartening to behold.
As I said, this set is not perfect. No set is perfect. No set has ever been or ever will be perfect. And now that we've seen every figure in this set, I'll gladly give a rundown of all the things I like and dislike about each one.
The concept: A Beast Wars combiner made up of the Tripredacus Council (whose original toys were also a combiner) as it was depicted in the Beast Wars cartoon, along with its two agents who also appeared in the cartoon (Ravage and Tarantulas).
The good: I like this concept for the most part. I've always wanted toys of the Council as they were seen in the show and always wished that we could perhaps get a redeco of the original toy in the red and silver colors of the show characters, perhaps even with new show-accurate headsculpts. I always knew this was a pipedream that was likely never going to happen, but it's alright to like an idea even if it's an unlikely one. And now, we're finally getting some kind of figures for the three that are in the spirit of how they were depicted in the show. Like Doctor McGrath, I too am a fan of show-accuracy and want toys of what I see in the shows, and what I saw in the show was three red guys wearing silver robes. That's how I remember them, that's what I wanted, and that's what we're getting. And the addition of the two agents from the show also makes sense since one of them is a super popular G1 character and the other is one of the most popular BW characters of them all. It is very logical to go with these two iconic characters from the show, instead of two new nobodies who have far less fan appeal. Plus, the use of Combiner Wars molds adds another layer of fun to this as the CW Combiners are very fun Combiner toys overall, arguably the best/most fun Combiner toys we've ever had in the Transformers brand.
The bad: While I understand the choosing of Tarantulas in this, I don't like we're getting another Pre-Beast Tarantulas so soon after our having just gotten one in this year's subscription service. Plus, the first episode of the BW cartoon showed that everyone's Cybertronian bodies were the same colors as their Season 1 bodies. Tarantulas was purple aboard the Darksyde, like his TFSS toy. So now the Transmetal colors don't mesh with the show, requiring that Tarantulas now undergo an seemingly unnecessary body-switch before the cartoon's events. I would have greatly preferred if they had gone with a different agent like Onyx Primal, even though he isn't nearly as known or as popular as Tarantulas is.
Now, onto each figure
Tripredacus Agent Ravage: A retool of CW Breakdown with a new headsculpt as Beast Wars Ravage
The good: It's Ravage, he's awesome in and of himself. And he pay homage to Alternators Battle Ravage, another awesome Ravage-as-a-car toy. And that new headsculpt does a very good job at resembling whom it's supposed to. And the Breakdown mold provides enough space to allow the head to be properly sized and look good.
The bad: I really, REALLY don't like the blocky look of the figure. Traditionally, Ravage (either in his G1 or BW forms) had a look that is sleek, smooth, agile, and nimble, as though every move he makes is quick, silent, and deadly, yet elegant, graceful, and majestic. This look, however, is anything but. The huge, chunky lower legs especially ruin the look of one who is supposed to be a swift and steathy master of infiltration and espionage. But as I said above, I understand why this mold was chosen: Of all the CW Deluxe car molds, it provides the most space for a wide enough head. And I really can't see them making Ravage out of either a jet, a helicopter, an F-1 racer, a truck, an APC, an ambulance, a buggy, or a tank. There were two car molds to choose from, and the Breakdown mold gives more space for a wider head. But that said, I still don't like how the Breakdown mold makes Ravage look. And the altmode is too Earthen for a strictly Cybertronian form.
Predacon Secret Police Tarantulas: A retool of CW Rook with a new head as Beast Wars Tarantulas.
The good: If there's one thing Transmetal Tarantulas had going for itself, it was its deco. That is a gorgeous deco this figure has, looking really good overall. And the new headsculpt is nice too, bearing a strong resemblance to the character. And I probably don't have mention how cool the Rook mold already is on its own.
The bad: I've already stated how I don't like how this is Tarantulas instead of someone else, so all of that applies here as well. To state something differently, I really don't dig this mold being chosen for Tarantulas. Like with Ravage, I understand the logic behind its being chosen, that it has some rudimentarily similar proportions to Tarantulas's Transmetal body, but I don't agree with a lot of it. The explanation that it's like if Tarantulas was wearing a protective body suit for his Secret Police duties feels really specific, so much that it takes away from this being a normal form for Tarantulas and raises more questions as to why it was chosen over any other CW limb mold that might have fit better. And those big orange feet look silly. And, personally, I wish this mold had been used for Sea Clamp instead.
Predacon General Ramhorn: A retool of CW Brawl using a pretooled drill and with a new head as Beast Wars Ram Horn.
The good: The addition of a pretooled drill is a nice surprise that also calls back to the horn the character had back on his original toy's beast mode. The new head is great and the use of a lesser-used mold (one that currently looks to be only seeing one release at retail by Hasbro and Takara each) is a nice bonus. And the little zigzag patterns that evoke the six legs of the original toy's rhinoceros beetle beast mode is a nice touch.
The bad: I don't like how the turret is pointed backwards in vehicle mode. I'm hoping that it can be rotated to point forward and still be set in place or at least look good. I also kinda wanted him to be the torso, using the Scattershot mold even, as I felt two other Deluxe limb molds were better suited for Sea Clamp and Cicadacon. Though, I also envisioned some torso mold choices for the other two as well. And based on that image alone, those sure look like some stubby small forearms the Brawl mold has.
Predacon General Ciciadon Cicadacon: A redeco of CW Skydive as Beast Wars Cicadacon
The good: That wing pattern is awesome! And I really dig the overall Armada Starscream-esque look of the jet mode deco. And since we were going to be getting five new headsculpts out of six, of all the CW headsculpts out there, Skydive's head was the perfect one to choose for the redeco slot. And in spite of it being the one redeco among four retools, it's this one that I find myself the mold excited about. I also like the red stripes on the silver chest that homage the chains he wore in the show, and the little black outline separating the red face from the red helmet. And the Skydive mold is awesome in and of itself.
The bad: I had hoped that this would have been the Air Raid mold with Skydive's head instead of just the Skydive mold wholesale. Or, as he was the biggest of the three in the cartoon, the Cyclonus mold with a new headsculpt.
Predacon General Seaclamp: A retool of CW Scattershot with a new head as Beast Wars Sea Clamp
The good: That is one mean-looking headsculpt. And this mold is the one that creates the best-looking combiner torso of them all, so the combiner is already set to look good. And the choice of the Scattershot version of the mold enables it to look particularly alien/futuristic to fit right at home as a Cybetronian vehicle mode. I also like the little lobster leg patterns on the sides of the altmode. And as Jesse said, the tailfils do resemble the end of a lobster's tail. Him being the torso also kind of makes some sense as his original toy was the largest of the Tripredacus components. And choosing this mold also further differentiates this combiner from Thunder Mayhem.
The bad: I wanted him to be the Rook mold. I really really wanted him to be the Rook mold. But if he had to be the torso, I wanted him to be the Hot Spot mold. I know that would have made this combiner somewhat too similar to Thunder Mayhem, who uses the Onslaught version of the Hot Spot mold, but then again, I also wanted the torso of Thunder Mayhem to be Thunderwing made from the Cyclonus mold, not Bludgeon made from the Onslaught mold. but I digress. I also don't like how, because this set is so heavily influence by the cartoon, Sea Clamp as the torso makes him the biggest of the three when he was the smallest one in the show while Cicadacon was the biggest.
Final verdict: This set is rife with flaws and bits of unlikeability just like any other BotCon set. But I recognize and understand the nature of these negatives and am willing to justly forgive some of these shortcomings. And also like any other BotCon set, it has a lot of good things going for it as well, and they are enough to make me still want this set, warts and all, even if it looks like I might have written about more negatives than positives.
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