The Energon Pub

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Batman has mastered every hand to hand fighting technique known to man kind including the "Vibrating hand technique".

And if you follow the myth of the "Vibrating hand technique" you would know that all is required of Batman it to touch his opponent once to bring him down.

Thats one touch if Batman chose.

So Batman can bring his enemies down with one touch? Then how do any of his enemies pose a threat? And why does he have to go through a fist-fight with the Joker if one punch is all he needs?

Shadowman wrote:So Batman can bring his enemies down with one touch?

Its a fact.

Then how do any of his enemies pose a threat?And why does he have to go through a fist-fight with the Joker if one punch is all he needs?

I know you well enough by now to know that your fully aware that theres a big difference between knowing how to do something and being willing to do so.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Then how do any of his enemies pose a threat?And why does he have to go through a fist-fight with the Joker if one punch is all he needs?

I know you well enough by now to know that your fully aware that theres a big difference between knowing how to do something and being willing to do so.

Yes, and a fist fight with the most sadistic madman on Earth seems like the kind of place Batman would be willing to use a one-hit knockout move.

Shadowman wrote:Yes, and a fist fight with the most sadistic madman on Earth seems like the kind of place Batman would be willing to use a one-hit knockout move.

Its actually a "1 hit kill move".

Althou the writers did play with the miyth a bit saying it was possible to control the degree of damaged inflicted by the touch.

But even in that they implied that the technique was far to dangerous.Using the VHT would be overkill in most cases, but my point is he knows how to use it.

And besides, its not the only way he could beat Hal if he needed to.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Yes, and a fist fight with the most sadistic madman on Earth seems like the kind of place Batman would be willing to use a one-hit knockout move.

Its actually a "1 hit kill move".

Althou the writers did play with the miyth a bit saying it was possible to control the degree of damaged inflicted by the touch.

But even in that they implied that the technique was far to dangerous.Using the VHT would be overkill in most cases, but my point is he knows how to use it.

And besides, its not the only way he could beat Hal if he needed to.

Come off it, you're just a deluded Batman fanboy. Hal put Batman on his ass in GL: Rebirth. And again, Batman was only able to lay a hand on Hal in GL 9 because Hal LET him. Hal knew it was the only way for Batman to salvage his bruised ego. Hal even said "Okay, we're even. Now can we just go catch the bad guy?"

God Thundercracker wrote:Come off it, you're just a deluded Batman fanboy.

I'm not the one who's deluded or needs to come off it.

Besides, I prefer Alan Scott [the original Green Lantern] to Batman.So when you call me a Bat fan boy its obvious you dont know what your talking about.

I personally hate what they have done to Batman, making him pretty much unbeatable.....its pretty much the same thing they did to Superman before the first Crisis.

The difference between you and me here is that I'm not letting my personal likes and dislikes govern my assessments of the issue.

Batman's plans took out the entire JLA, thats the whole team consisting of members........

Superman
Wonderwoman
Aquaman
Flash [Wally West]
Green Lantern [Kyle Rayner]
Martian Manhunter
Plastic Man

Thats 7 of the most powerful [arguably]heroes in the DCu and Batmans plans took them all out.

Furthermore Batman's brother eye network took out 80% [more or less] of the villains and heros in the DCU during the last Crisis.

The only reason why the heroes made it out of those situations was because Batman wasnt the one implementing those plans.

Now imagine if he was.

Anyone who's plans can take out the entire JLA and later take out 80% of the heroes and villains in the entire DCU is going to be able to plan out a winning strategy to handle Hal Jordan.

Hal put Batman on his ass in GL: Rebirth.

Thats right, Hal put it all in that punch and Bats still got up.

Hal's not capable of KOing Bats, but Bats it more then cspable of koing Hal if he saw fit.

And again, Batman was only able to lay a hand on Hal in GL 9 because Hal LET him. Hal knew it was the only way for Batman to salvage his bruised ego. Hal even said "Okay, we're even. Now can we just go catch the bad guy?"

[/quote]

Again, in your dreams.

If that were completely true Batman wouldnt have been able to do this....


Batman totally caught Hal by surprise just with a short stop in the car.

Face it, Hal was caught off guard by both that punch and the short stop while driving in just a short amount of time.

And if Batman can catch Hal off guard,which we know he can, Hal doesnt stand a chance.

Even Green Arrow recently took Hal by surprise making it so Hal couldnt use his ring.If GA can do it so can Bats.

Batman only uses his gadgets and etc. So Green Lantern wins

Exic wrote:Batman only uses his gadgets and etc. So Green Lantern wins

So what can Green Lantern do without his ring?

You know even the 60's TV show Batman can take him no problem, yes I'm talking about this guy:

Why you ask? Because he always has what he needs to beat his enemy in his belt and yes he has a yellow wooden pencil in there too, so Greeny is screwed.

Dead Metal wrote:Why you ask? Because he always has what he needs to beat his enemy in his belt and yes he has a yellow wooden pencil in there too, so Greeny is screwed.

Hal was an air force pilot. He can dodge a pencil.

Second, yellow isn't nearly as much of a problem to a Green Lantern as one would think. Yes, they can't effect the color yellow, but they can effect things that aren't yellow, for example throwing a not-yellow car at someone, or blowing up the not-yellow floor beneath their target.

Shadowman wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Why you ask? Because he always has what he needs to beat his enemy in his belt and yes he has a yellow wooden pencil in there too, so Greeny is screwed.

Hal was an air force pilot. He can dodge a pencil.

Second, yellow isn't nearly as much of a problem to a Green Lantern as one would think. Yes, they can't effect the color yellow, but they can effect things that aren't yellow, for example throwing a not-yellow car at someone, or blowing up the not-yellow floor beneath their target.

You haven't read a comic in awhile have ya? The Lantern Rings haven't been effected by yellow in years. If it were still true they would have lost the Sinestro Corps War in about 2 issues.

Hal is an air force pilot sure. And Batman has mastered every fighting style on the face of the planet, is the best strategist in DC, and is one of the smartest men in DC. Hal has average intelligence. It's not hard to outsmart him. And if it came down to an actual fist fight Batman would win.

Having a Lantern Ring doesn't mean you're unbeatable. In Identity Crisis Kyle traps Deadshot in a green energy bubble/cage. Deadshot lines up a shot with his wrist guns and Kyle says not to shoot that his bullet will never make it out of the barrier and it will only ricochet and might kill Deadshot. To which Deadshot replies something like "Yeah, I know." and then fires, the bullet ricochets and hits him in the neck. Kyle drops the barrier just like Deadshot planned. Deadshot then lined up a shot that would have killed Kyle if Superman didn't fly in through a window at the last second and block the bullet, as Deadshot aimed the first shot to just appear to do more damage then it was (he was still going to bleed to death eventually though).

What does that prove? That Green Lanterns can be taken by surprise and then taken out by that surprise. And what's Batman the master at? Preptime. If he has enough time to come up with a plan he can and will beat Hal.

both batman and hal jordan are not killers. if there was no choice though...

if batman had prep time and Jordan did not know that Bats was going to take him out, then batman.

in an even fight though, jordan all the way.

that said that is why Batman can puch outside of his weight class so much, he does not let there be an even fight.

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:You haven't read a comic in awhile have ya? The Lantern Rings haven't been effected by yellow in years. If it were still true they would have lost the Sinestro Corps War in about 2 issues.

You know I actually was wondering about that. I don't keep up with Green Lantern all that well but yeah, yellow is a non-issue. Oh look, another advantage for Batman is gone.

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:Hal is an air force pilot sure. And Batman has mastered every fighting style on the face of the planet, is the best strategist in DC, and is one of the smartest men in DC. Hal has average intelligence. It's not hard to outsmart him. And if it came down to an actual fist fight Batman would win.

See, this is the confusing part. If Batman the world's greatest detective, strategist, fighter, etc, then why is the Joker a threat to him? Because is Batman is so great, he could just stop the Joker after Joker took one step out of Arkham.

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:What does that prove? That Green Lanterns can be taken by surprise and then taken out by that surprise. And what's Batman the master at? Preptime. If he has enough time to come up with a plan he can and will beat Hal.

Yes. I seem to remember saying something like that a while ago. If Batman can take Hal by surprise, Batman wins. If Hal knows Batman is out for his blood, Hal wins.

Shadowman wrote:

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:You haven't read a comic in awhile have ya? The Lantern Rings haven't been effected by yellow in years. If it were still true they would have lost the Sinestro Corps War in about 2 issues.

You know I actually was wondering about that. I don't keep up with Green Lantern all that well but yeah, yellow is a non-issue. Oh look, another advantage for Batman is gone.

Hardly.

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:Hal is an air force pilot sure. And Batman has mastered every fighting style on the face of the planet, is the best strategist in DC, and is one of the smartest men in DC. Hal has average intelligence. It's not hard to outsmart him. And if it came down to an actual fist fight Batman would win.

See, this is the confusing part. If Batman the world's greatest detective, strategist, fighter, etc, then why is the Joker a threat to him?

Because, the Joker is every bit as smart.....and insane.

Shadowman wrote: If Hal knows Batman is out for his blood, Hal wins.

And again doubtful.

Even knowing Batman is coming, Hal just isint smart enough to out think every plan Bats will have at the ready.

Hal isn't stupid. Didn't he almost remake the universe in Zero Hour? I'd say that Hal is at least as smart as the Joker.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:Hal is an air force pilot sure. And Batman has mastered every fighting style on the face of the planet, is the best strategist in DC, and is one of the smartest men in DC. Hal has average intelligence. It's not hard to outsmart him. And if it came down to an actual fist fight Batman would win.

See, this is the confusing part. If Batman the world's greatest detective, strategist, fighter, etc, then why is the Joker a threat to him?

Because, the Joker is every bit as smart.....and insane.

This. A thousand times this. Joker is the single most unpredictable person in the DCU. He's been diagnosed as having an "evolving insanity" it was originally used to explain inconsistencies in how he was written. But it's been expanded to also mean that he's so insane he's constantly reinventing himself and how he thinks. There's almost no way to predict what he's going to do because at times even the Joker doesn't know what he's going to do.

On top of that the Joker has what's called as psychotic strength. You know the news reports you read about how mothers lift cars off of their babies with strength they shouldn't have in real life? Well Joker's insanity keeps him in a high stress, high adrenaline state. He's described as being strong enough to floor professional fighters with a punch, and he's tough as nails. You can't use him as an example of how 'weak' Batman is, when the Joker is actually a bad ass in his own right.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Shadowman wrote: If Hal knows Batman is out for his blood, Hal wins.

And again doubtful.

Even knowing Batman is coming, Hal just isint smart enough to out think every plan Bats will have at the ready.

I agree. Batman can beat Hal. And Hal could potentially beat Batman. But he'd have to use near lethal force to do so and he'd never do that unless he's being mind controlled. Whereas Batman could fake an injury to lure a concerned Hal in and then take him out with a nerve strike. Batman is the smartest and sneakiest man in the DCU. There's a reason why he's usually the default leader of the JLA, if not it's field commander. Batman is the greatest strategist in DC. If he has enough time to formulate a plan against Hal it is all over.

God Thundercracker wrote:Hal isn't stupid. Didn't he almost remake the universe in Zero Hour? I'd say that Hal is at least as smart as the Joker.

I never said he was stupid.

But the Joker has been said to be far smarter then most.

So no, Hal isint as smart as the Joker....he's also not a driven.

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:This. A thousand times this. Joker is the single most unpredictable person in the DCU. He's been diagnosed as having an "evolving insanity" it was originally used to explain inconsistencies in how he was written. But it's been expanded to also mean that he's so insane he's constantly reinventing himself and how he thinks. There's almost no way to predict what he's going to do because at times even the Joker doesn't know what he's going to do.

On top of that the Joker has what's called as psychotic strength. You know the news reports you read about how mothers lift cars off of their babies with strength they shouldn't have in real life? Well Joker's insanity keeps him in a high stress, high adrenaline state. He's described as being strong enough to floor professional fighters with a punch, and he's tough as nails. You can't use him as an example of how 'weak' Batman is, when the Joker is actually a bad ass in his own right.

I could not have said it better.

I agree. Batman can beat Hal. And Hal could potentially beat Batman. But he'd have to use near lethal force to do so and he'd never do that unless he's being mind controlled. Whereas Batman could fake an injury to lure a concerned Hal in and then take him out with a nerve strike. Batman is the smartest and sneakiest man in the DCU. There's a reason why he's usually the default leader of the JLA, if not it's field commander. Batman is the greatest strategist in DC. If he has enough time to formulate a plan against Hal it is all over.

The only way I see Hal beating Bat's is for Hal to launch an attack why Batman is not expecting it at all.

Meaning Batman wouldnt even be aware there was a fight going on.Basicily Hal would have to be completely unpredictable.

And I just dont see that from Hal.

hal picks up bats in giant green fist, squish.

how can batman dodge that.

not really inventive, or partically driven, but well within hal's ablity to do.

Batman is not a killer. it is really his one rule, heck that is why the joker loves him, because even if batman snaps one day, after he has gassed an orphanage, and finally just kills him. he will have won because he will have proved that the batman is just like him. The whole of the joker's existance has been pretty much a dare to bats to off him.

Jordan was a fighter pilot, he has been trained to kill, at least via a fighter plane. if one of them was to cross that line Hal would probably be the one to do it first.

kjyl wrote:Batman is not a killer. it is really his one rule.

Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of Batman snapping people's necks.

kjyl wrote:hal picks up bats in giant green fist, squish.

how can batman dodge that.

not really inventive, or partically driven, but well within hal's ablity to do.

Like he always has. Batman is peak human physical condition. He's shown to be able to fight Captain America to a draw on top of being one of the smartest men on his Earth.

kjyl wrote:Jordan was a fighter pilot, he has been trained to kill, at least via a fighter plane. if one of them was to cross that line Hal would probably be the one to do it first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKfjOYrpbS8

Sure was. He's not a killer. And even in the comics he doesn't like to kill. He'll only do it as an absolute last resort. And even then he still doesn't like to kill.

NSFW. Violence and language. Watch the rest of the movie and see just how screwed up killing that guy made Hal.

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:

kjyl wrote:Jordan was a fighter pilot, he has been trained to kill, at least via a fighter plane. if one of them was to cross that line Hal would probably be the one to do it first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKfjOYrpbS8

Sure was. He's not a killer. And even in the comics he doesn't like to kill. He'll only do it as an absolute last resort. And even then he still doesn't like to kill.

NSFW. Violence and language. Watch the rest of the movie and see just how screwed up killing that guy made Hal.

Actually, most superheroes are willing to kill if they really feel it's necessary. Superman vs. Doomsday, for example, where Superman figured that Doomsday would not stop destroying, and no prison on Earth could possibly contain him. But you saw how well that worked out.

kjyl wrote:hal picks up bats in giant green fist, squish.

how can batman dodge that.

The same way he's dodged being caught by Superman.

By out thinking him.

Further more Batman has any number of devices that can disrupt Hal's control of his ring.

Batman is not a killer. it is really his one rule, heck that is why the joker loves him, because even if batman snaps one day, after he has gassed an orphanage, and finally just kills him. he will have won because he will have proved that the batman is just like him. The whole of the joker's existance has been pretty much a dare to bats to off him.

Jordan was a fighter pilot, he has been trained to kill, at least via a fighter plane. if one of them was to cross that line Hal would probably be the one to do it first.

You might want to "re-check" your facts.

Batman has shown he's willing to kill in some cases.

But he wouldnt need to kill Hal to stop him.

Jeep : That does bring up a good point, which batman are we talking about the one from red son? speeding bullets? Dick grayson?

if it is the current "bruce wayne" batman then hal wins just because Bats is a corpse. Given no specifics I defaulted to, for want of a better term "Iconic Bruce wayne batman" and one of his big "tenets is thou shall not kill". not saying he could not be driven to it, but, it would take a lot and I just think Hal would get to that point faster.

loki: I thought new frontiers was excellent, but that does illistrate my point, Hal will kill, it may screw him up afterwards, but, he can do it.

as for dodgeing, batman is good, but he cannot dodge things at the speed of thought. If green lanterns can catch superboy prime, they can catch batman with an attack. if it gets to the point of a physical confrentation, where both know what is going on, batman just cannot win.

though to be perfectly honest if Batman, and Hal jordan were put in a situation where one had to die, I almost think it would be a race to see who could kill themselves first.

kjyl wrote:Jeep : That does bring up a good point, which batman are we talking about the one from red son? speeding bullets? Dick grayson?

if it is the current "bruce wayne" batman then hal wins just because Bats is a corpse.

Or is he????

as for dodgeing, batman is good, but he cannot dodge things at the speed of thought. If green lanterns can catch superboy prime, they can catch batman with an attack.

Thats not exactly true either.

The speed of thought is a "relative" term....in short its directly related to the one thinking.

Basicly....if one can "out think" a GL and anticapate his next move then he would be able to dodge a GL attack.

Superboy Prime just wasnt that smart....Bats is.

you are saying that batman can dodge an attack that a super genius who can move at more then the speed of light is incapable of dodging?

no human is that fast or that right all of the time. people can and have in the past hit batman. hal jordan himself has punched batman if he can hit him with a fist, he can hit him with a construct.heck just put batman in a 100 foot cube then shrink the cube to 1 inch. dead bat and no way to dodge.



if the question is can batman succesfully attack hal jordan when hal does not know batman is going to attack him , the answer is yes. but so can hal do the same to batman

if they have the same amount of warning ,well, it swings to Hal


and yeah Bruce is dead, Black hand has been carring around his skull like a teddy bear. even used it to manifest him for a short while.

kjyl wrote:and yeah Bruce is dead, Black hand has been carring around his skull like a teddy bear. even used it to manifest him for a short while.

The same was thought of Sparky, Aunt May, Venom, Carnage, Superman, they where all thought to be dead but they all came back even when some of them died on screen. Batman may be dead right now, but just wait till the current story finishes WB knows better than to kill off one of their most successful characters.