The Energon Pub

by **trarcks** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:17 am

What is your professional opinion (as a fan of Transformers) on this show? I mean, do you like it? Do you not? Why?

If you could keep this rational, as in, no OHMYGODBEASTMACHINESSUCKSAHMAHGAWD! kind of thing.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:20 am

Honestly, Beast Machines is the most highbrow and most tightly-written series we've ever gotten. From start to finish, it feels like the writers knew exactly what they were doing going into it with very little of anything feeling like it was forced in at the 11th hour (there are traces of such things in there, but it's exceedingly minor). It took its audience seriously and engaged us on an intellectual and philosophical level (You know, for kids!

), asking and exploring big questions and high-minded concepts that no other series (let alone other kids cartoons of the time) were willing to ask and explore. It dug deep into the soil of the lore to plant the seeds of its own mythos to add to all that came before. It took risks and pushed itself to show just how far it could go with its potential, revolutionizing the brand's mythology and forever changing it for years to come.

News Credits: 1 · by **RhA** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:28 am

I liked it. Sure it's an unconventional show, but it worked for me.

The artstyle was a great improvement over BW, it really showed what Mainframe had learned to do with CGI in a few years, it struck a great balance between a flashy graffiti look and a dark, serious undertone. Cybertron looked desolate and the maximals where portrayed as a splash of color.

I couldn't always get behond the character development, though. Rattrap was really dumbed down. His storyline didn't sit right with me. I know it was meant as a humbling experience for him to be to unable to transform (maybe becase he has a materialistic nature), but eventually his shift to a more emotional Rattrap didn't feel like he had gone through a big enough paradigm shift. It felt 'forced'.

Still, it was a kids show that dared to explore themes like that. Giving up on old patterns and egos to attain an ideal. Megatron was well done, he was a complete megalomaniac and he grew to be that way all through Beast Wars and idealized himself and everything around him to what he believed was a harmonic state for the planet. He strived towards an ideal, which he felt was best for everyone and he had an Optimus to match that.

News Credits: 4838 · by **william-james88** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:37 pm

I recommend it. It is very interesting and, like other said, very tightly written. I met one of the executives once (he is now the head of DC Comics Dan Didio) and told me that the themes the show explores and the bigger reveals of Cybertron were all proposed up front and carried out.
The animation is a lot better than Beast Wars and has a style all on it's own, especially the way they show explosions.
It is sad to see what happens to the characters you may have loved on Beast Wars because for the most part, everyone changes either during or in the gap between the shows. But at least it shows that characters can change depending on the situation. Cheetor and Optimus change roles as the series expands and it is very interesting to witness. But I do warn you, they change pretty much everything in terms of character personality and you might not like where they take some characters. I have never seen a show take more risks.

Enjoy but please keep an open mind!

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:01 pm

Cheetor didn't change much. He mostly grew more defiant of Optimus, but that is typical of adolescence. And he was able to grow up in the long run. In a way, from the beginning of Beast Wars to the end of Beast Machines, Cheetor was arguably the most developed character of both series, and had his growth executed very natural and believable.

News Credits: 1 · by **RhA** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:42 am

Sabrblade wrote:Cheetor didn't change much. He mostly grew more defiant of Optimus, but that is typical of adolescence. And he was able to grow up in the long run. In a way, from the beginning of Beast Wars to the end of Beast Machines, Cheetor was arguably the most developed character of both series, and had his growth executed very natural and believable.

Agreed. With Megatron as a close second.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:23 am

RhA wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Cheetor didn't change much. He mostly grew more defiant of Optimus, but that is typical of adolescence. And he was able to grow up in the long run. In a way, from the beginning of Beast Wars to the end of Beast Machines, Cheetor was arguably the most developed character of both series, and had his growth executed very natural and believable.

Agreed. With Megatron as a close second.

The only speed bump I can see in Megatron's development was his change of opinion about beast modes and organic material in general, as the end of Beast Wars had him proud of and embrace the might of his dragon form. While there were probably some months that occurred between the time of his return to Cybertron and the time of the Maximals' return, 'twould have still been nice to actually see how he grew to resent his beast mode.

Supplementary material only scantly touches upon Megatron's activity in this time period, with most of it focusing instead on how he got the Transformation virus rather than focusing on his changing viewpoints.

by **TurboMMaster** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:08 pm

Beast Machines is a great series with serious attitude and a lot of new ideas. Sadly, it isn't great as Beast Wars sequel, since it turned everything upside-down. That is why this series was so hated until 2004 and relase of Energon.

All in all, it's the best if you consider this as a completly new series.

However there is a few things I don't understand, the decide "Let's create dark, serious series" and they introduce Power Rangers style of fightning? How dark could they give a series designated for teenagers transformations and battles with style from series designated for younger audience? WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?

Plus Maximals are ugly

News Credits: 1 · by **RhA** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:15 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
RhA wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Cheetor didn't change much. He mostly grew more defiant of Optimus, but that is typical of adolescence. And he was able to grow up in the long run. In a way, from the beginning of Beast Wars to the end of Beast Machines, Cheetor was arguably the most developed character of both series, and had his growth executed very natural and believable.

Agreed. With Megatron as a close second.
The only speed bump I can see in Megatron's development was his change of opinion about beast modes and organic material in general, as the end of Beast Wars had him proud of and embrace the might of his dragon form. While there were probably some months that occurred between the time of his return to Cybertron and the time of the Maximals' return, 'twould have still been nice to actually see how he grew to resent his beast mode.

Supplementary material only scantly touches upon Megatron's activity in this time period, with most of it focusing instead on how he got the Transformation virus rather than focusing on his changing viewpoints.

Yes. That was a bump in the road. He didn't just dislike his organic half, he was ashamed of it. Still, his turnaround wasn't illogical. The pychological process was already complete at the start of BM. And while I understand that the writers skipped it, as it could be a boring element for the target audience, a short comment about it would have been nice.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:40 pm

TurboMMaster wrote:However there is a few things I don't understand, the decide "Let's create dark, serious series" and they introduce Power Rangers style of fightning?

Where do you see martial arts fighting and the combining of personal weapons to make a bigger weapon in this series? :???:

News Credits: 15 · by **PrymeStriker** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:33 pm

The only complaints I have with Beast Machines regard to how some of the old characters were handled. As mentioned by others, what they did with Rattrap, Silverbolt, and Megatron felt like the writers didn't want to keep consistent with Beast Wars and ignored some of their development. However, I try not to connect these two shows when I don't have to, making Beast Machines among the three greatest Transformers cartoons of all-time.

News Credits: 4838 · by **william-james88** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:28 pm

PrymeStriker wrote:The only complaints I have with Beast Machines regard to how some of the old characters were handled. As mentioned by others, what they did with Rattrap, Silverbolt, and Megatron felt like the writers didn't want to keep consistent with Beast Wars and ignored some of their development. However, I try not to connect these two shows when I don't have to, making Beast Machines among the three greatest Transformers cartoons of all-time.

What are the other 2?

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:44 pm

william-james88 wrote:
PrymeStriker wrote:The only complaints I have with Beast Machines regard to how some of the old characters were handled. As mentioned by others, what they did with Rattrap, Silverbolt, and Megatron felt like the writers didn't want to keep consistent with Beast Wars and ignored some of their development. However, I try not to connect these two shows when I don't have to, making Beast Machines among the three greatest Transformers cartoons of all-time.

What are the other 2?

Beast Wars and Animated, of course.

News Credits: 4838 · by **william-james88** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:08 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
william-james88 wrote:
PrymeStriker wrote:The only complaints I have with Beast Machines regard to how some of the old characters were handled. As mentioned by others, what they did with Rattrap, Silverbolt, and Megatron felt like the writers didn't want to keep consistent with Beast Wars and ignored some of their development. However, I try not to connect these two shows when I don't have to, making Beast Machines among the three greatest Transformers cartoons of all-time.

What are the other 2?
Beast Wars and Animated, of course.

No G1? Blasphemy!!!!!!!!! Just messing, my favourites are Bw, BM and Prime. I do enjoy watching G1 though, it has a fun and comfortable feel to it.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:14 pm

william-james88 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
william-james88 wrote:
PrymeStriker wrote:The only complaints I have with Beast Machines regard to how some of the old characters were handled. As mentioned by others, what they did with Rattrap, Silverbolt, and Megatron felt like the writers didn't want to keep consistent with Beast Wars and ignored some of their development. However, I try not to connect these two shows when I don't have to, making Beast Machines among the three greatest Transformers cartoons of all-time.

What are the other 2?
Beast Wars and Animated, of course.

No G1? Blasphemy!!!!!!!!! Just messing, my favourites are Bw, BM and Prime. I do enjoy watching G1 though, it has a fun and comfortable feel to it.

Truth be told, Beast Machines is only in top #4 spot, and in a three-way tie, at that.

#1 is Beast Wars, #2 is Animated, #3 is a tie between Super-God Masterforce and Rescue Bots, and #4 is the three-way tie between Beast Machines, Robots in Disguise (2001), and Prime. I'd rank Prime higher on list (or bump the other two down to #5) if not for Prime's haphazard mess of a first season.

News Credits: 4838 · by **william-james88** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:27 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
#1 is Beast Wars, #2 is Animated, #3 is a tie between Super-God Masterforce and Rescue Bots, and #4 is the three-way tie between Beast Machines, Robots in Disguise (2001), and Prime. I'd rank Prime higher on list (or bump the other two down to #5) if not for Prime's haphazard mess of a first season.

Ha! Where does G1 fit in all of that?

News Credits: 1 · by **RhA** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:19 am

william-james88 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
#1 is Beast Wars, #2 is Animated, #3 is a tie between Super-God Masterforce and Rescue Bots, and #4 is the three-way tie between Beast Machines, Robots in Disguise (2001), and Prime. I'd rank Prime higher on list (or bump the other two down to #5) if not for Prime's haphazard mess of a first season.

Ha! Where does G1 fit in all of that?

...the number 3 spot.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:09 am

william-james88 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
#1 is Beast Wars, #2 is Animated, #3 is a tie between Super-God Masterforce and Rescue Bots, and #4 is the three-way tie between Beast Machines, Robots in Disguise (2001), and Prime. I'd rank Prime higher on list (or bump the other two down to #5) if not for Prime's haphazard mess of a first season.

Ha! Where does G1 fit in all of that?

Further down at #7 (also in a three-way tie with Armada and Victory).

News Credits: 293 · by **shajaki** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:56 pm

i disagree with the opinions of rattrap. given his physical changes, i think the changes in his character are quite fitting.

try to remember a few key episodes of BW. they feature rattrap showcasing his skills quite fearlessly. "a better mousetrap" had rattrap take on sentinel, the axalons security system, and rose to the occasion. during "the agenda" he single handedly takes down ravage and his ship. not to mention that rattrap had taken command of the maximals in times of great duress.

then the maximals are triumphant and return home, only to be separated, stripped down, and confused. i think this made rattrap regress. recall the beginning of the BW where rattrap had little respect and was downright insubordinate. and when the group find eachother on cybertron after the crash, its as if they didnt remember one another until they were actually seen. so imagine rattrap landing back on cybertron, not only powerless, but with little to no memory of the BW. a regression of his old traits makes perfect sense.

he once again had to find himself, but now had to do so without any of his previous arsenal. being reformatted didnt help much either as he couldnt transform. and even after all that, he learns to transform only to find a robot mode devoid of weapons. which leads to the other doing worse than hating him, they pity him and find him useless. these feeling come to a head in the BM episode titled "the weak component" which i found equally as powerful as "code of hero".

after this, rattrap finds new strengths and abilities which evidently make him cast off his doubt and gain acceptance with the rest of the maximal crew.

to me anyways, thats a powerful amount of character development.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:05 pm

shajaki wrote:i disagree with the opinions of rattrap. given his physical changes, i think the changes in his character are quite fitting.

try to remember a few key episodes of BW. they feature rattrap showcasing his skills quite fearlessly. "a better mousetrap" had rattrap take on sentinel, the axalons security system, and rose to the occasion. during "the agenda" he single handedly takes down ravage and his ship. not to mention that rattrap had taken command of the maximals in times of great duress.

then the maximals are triumphant and return home, only to be separated, stripped down, and confused. i think this made rattrap regress. recall the beginning of the BW where rattrap had little respect and was downright insubordinate. and when the group find eachother on cybertron after the crash, its as if they didnt remember one another until they were actually seen. so imagine rattrap landing back on cybertron, not only powerless, but with little to no memory of the BW. a regression of his old traits makes perfect sense.

he once again had to find himself, but now had to do so without any of his previous arsenal. being reformatted didnt help much either as he couldnt transform. and even after all that, he learns to transform only to find a robot mode devoid of weapons. which leads to the other doing worse than hating him, they pity him and find him useless. these feeling come to a head in the BM episode titled "the weak component" which i found equally as powerful as "code of hero".

after this, rattrap finds new strengths and abilities which evidently make him cast off his doubt and gain acceptance with the rest of the maximal crew.

to me anyways, thats a powerful amount of character development.

Now do the same to justify Silverbolt's personality change. ;)^

News Credits: 4838 · by **william-james88** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:10 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
Now do the same to justify Silverbolt's personality change.

Oh man, I wish I had time for this because I believe Silverbolt's change is far more believable. I still don't get his alt mode though and how it came to be.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:15 pm

william-james88 wrote:I still don't get his alt mode though and how it came to be.

It was just the first animal fossil the DNA scanner scanned. Simple as that.

News Credits: 4838 · by **william-james88** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:31 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
william-james88 wrote:I still don't get his alt mode though and how it came to be.
It was just the first animal fossil the DNA scanner scanned. Simple as that.

Sure, but what was it and why in those colours?

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:22 pm

william-james88 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
william-james88 wrote:I still don't get his alt mode though and how it came to be.
It was just the first animal fossil the DNA scanner scanned. Simple as that.

Sure, but what was it and why in those colours?

Why the colors for everyone else? Why pink for Blackarachnia? Why green for Rattrap? Why chocolate and teal for Nightscream? Primal and Cheetor are the only ones whose colors made sense.

Plus, it continues the trend of color changes with each upgrade that happened in Beast Wars:

Optimus Primal

Pre-Transmetal: Dark gray, white, red, some navy
Transetal: Blue, brown, purple, gray
Optimal Optimus: Orange, gray, blue, maroon
Technorganic: Black, gold, blue, dark orange

Cheetor:

Pre-Transmetal: Yellow, gold, blue, black spots
Transmetal: Gold, silver, turquoise, black spots
Transmetal 2: Dark yellow, dark gray, maroon, some red
Technoganic: Yellow, green, red, purple spots

Rattrap:

Pre-Transmetal: Brown, gray, silver, peach, some red
Transmetal: Blue, silver, brown, red, some gold
Technorganic: Green, silver, red, some yellow, some black

Blackararachnia:

Pre-Transmetal: Gold, black, orange, some yellow
Transmetal 2: Black/navy, maroon, gold, some purple
Technoganic: Pink, green, purple, some gold

Megatron (oh boy, here's a doozy!):

Pre-Transmetal: Purple, black, silver, some violet
Transmetal: Brown, purple, black, silver
Transmetal 2: Red, gold, black, some purple
Ruler of Cybertron: Dark blue, light blue, magenta (dragon mode), tan (dragon mode), gold (dragon mode)
Noble: Dark blue, light blue, some purple, some tan
Savage: Red, golden-tan
Grand Mal: Light blue, dark blue, some red, some green
"Optimal Megatron": Orange, gray, blue, maroon

Tarantulas:

Pre-Transmetal: Purple, black, green, gold
Transmetal: Navy, purple, gold, green

In all of these, it's only Cheetor and Tarantulas who remained the most consistent in their color schemes per body.

News Credits: 293 · by **shajaki** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:08 pm

william-james88 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Now do the same to justify Silverbolt's personality change.
Oh man, I wish I had time for this because I believe Silverbolt's change is far more believable. I still don't get his alt mode though and how it came to be.

silverbolt is easy. he even says it himself.

i feel everyone has dark desires. you might have to dig deep, but theyre there. and beneath his code of honour and chivalry lied a remorseless monster just waiting for the leash to be taken off. which megatron did in reformatting him to jetstorm. he not only brought those desired fourth, but likely amplified them (which would explain why rhinox remained evil until his death and liberated from his tankor shell). and as silverbolt says himself, he "revelled" in it. and some cultures believed after such dishonour the only option was suicide....

once fully reawakened, he had to live with his actions caused as jetstorm. which you can plainly see caused him great anger and he cant seem to forgive himself even though his friends do. this leads him to be unable to take any joy in his new lease on life as his anger drives him to be all consumed on revenge against the one who caused it all.

one other thing ill add (which is pure speculation) is that even through reformatted by blackarachnea, he is still physically in the body megatron made for him. who knows what kind of programming still lingers inside of him.

as for his alt mode, cybertron apparently had purple pigeons back in the day

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