The Energon Pub

The more I think about this, the more odd it seems that we're not getting toys right of the bat, if at all for TF: Prime. I mean, the shows and toys have gone hand in hand from the start. It makes me wonder just what Hasbro is up to with this series? Could it possibly merely be set as filler before TF3? Can a TF show, given the nature of the franchise, survive without toys to anchor it?
Thoughts anyone?

To be honest, after seeing the character designs, my first thought was that a main reason we're not seeing toys right away is that the designs aren't that toy friendly for accuracy purposes, especially after the RotF and TFA lines raised the bar for making toys with good likeness to the movie and cartoon counterparts.

However, I just started to read up about the big plan for TF: Prime, which involves an ambitious goal of creating a "master continuity" from scratch(meaning not trying to tie together existing continuities in a jury rigged kind of way that has been attempted on numerous occasions on the official and fan level). The plan is to make the TF: Prime line last 7 to 10 years at least if things go well. A 350 page continuity bible has been written for the writers to use. The War For Cybertron game, Exodus novel, and TF: Prime cartoon are all in the same continuity. WFC and Exodus are supposed to be the prequel sort of branches of fiction that lead up to TF: Prime.

Now, unfortunately, there seems to be continuity issues already with WFC and Exodus. I don't know that firsthand as I haven't played the game or read the novel yet. My source is TFwiki.

So all this being said, I think the main reason why Hasbro hasn't gone forth with a toy line, or at least hasn't publicly confirmed a planned toyline for TFP, is that they're attempting something a bit new for the TF franchise as far as I know...Hasbro is trying to establish an entrenched continuity before going ahead with a toyline. Look at the previous toylines where the toys were the foundation for the cartoons. The cartoons were meant to sell the toys to kids. Transformers is founded upon the principle of building a franchise around a toyline. So with Hasbro's intent to make a continuity that is supposed to span several years at least...I think this is sort of an experiment for them to do things the other way around.

So as to how TFP will survive without a toyline? I'm not sure but I think Hasbro is at least partly encouraged by the success of the two Michael Bay TF movies, which did quite well in the box office and the movies didn't need toys to make them successful(it was the other way around as I understand it). The success of video game franchises that have branched out with multiple media efforts, such as Halo, may also be an influence.

If it doesnt have a toyline at least a year after its airiong, TF Prime is dead.

SlyTF1 wrote:If it doesnt have a toyline at least a year after its airiong, TF Prime is dead.

Perhaps it's going to be a genuinely good show and not need a toyline to keep it afloat?

Jesterhead wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:If it doesnt have a toyline at least a year after its airiong, TF Prime is dead.

Perhaps it's going to be a genuinely good show and not need a toyline to keep it afloat?

But what sense does it make to make a TF show with no toyline?

SlyTF1 wrote:

Jesterhead wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:If it doesnt have a toyline at least a year after its airiong, TF Prime is dead.

Perhaps it's going to be a genuinely good show and not need a toyline to keep it afloat?

But what sense does it make to make a TF show with no toyline?

Hasbro is now no longer a toy company but an entertainment company that just happens to make toy to their properties now. If Prime is a successful show children will want toys, and the longer they wait for them the more they will want them.

Eh, I don't think it's so much the show-accurate-toy thing that's slowing Hasbro up in terms of a toy line - at least if the evolution of their manufacturing ability in relation to past shows' designs is any indicator (even Beast Machines started generating toys much closer to the character designs only two or three years after the show's premiere, not to mention the Masterpiece line and some of the Classics figures since then - plus Siebenaler mentioned something about having designed a TF: P Optimus toy at Botcon) - as it is frankly not wanting to have to pull the plug on another cartoon-related toyline to make room for smearing more Movie stuff all over the store shelves. TF: Prime will have practically just begun when TF3 hits theaters, and given how closely many of the TF: Prime designs resemble or at least take significant design cues from their Movie counterparts to begin with, I can see where Hasbro also probably doesn't want to clutter shelves with two near-identical main lines.

Of course, I'd also like to think that it's possible that Hasbro wants to take advantage of the popularity of the Movies to generate further interest in a show that that's being designed with a different story and character trajectory than the Movies, at least the way Orci and Kurtzman have been describing it. I think Hasbro may be trying to position TF: Prime in such a way as to try and sidestep some of the criticisms that exist toward the Movies, and if this IS Bay's last gasp with the Movies, then they'll probably want this show to stick around a bit longer than some of the more recent TF shows, at least until they can figure out what they want to do next with the Movie portion of the brand, hence the more comprehensive creative effort that seems to be getting put into this one, and in focusing on everything BUT the toys at this point.

As for toys, if nothing else, Hasbro can always shoehorn waves of them into Generations if the demand for them becomes THAT strong.

With the success of the movies and everything, I doubt Hasbro needs Prime to sell toys to fund itself.
With the robots looking like the other recent versions of themselves, I doubt Hasbro needs to make new toys to sell the same characters.

My guess is Prime will be like WfC toy-wise.

Convotron wrote:
However, I just started to read up about the big plan for TF: Prime, which involves an ambitious goal of creating a "master continuity" from scratch(meaning not trying to tie together existing continuities in a jury rigged kind of way that has been attempted on numerous occasions on the official and fan level). The plan is to make the TF: Prime line last 7 to 10 years at least if things go well. A 350 page continuity bible has been written for the writers to use. The War For Cybertron game, Exodus novel, and TF: Prime cartoon are all in the same continuity. WFC and Exodus are supposed to be the prequel sort of branches of fiction that lead up to TF: Prime..

Where did you read up this stuff? TFwiki.net? Just out of curiosity.

Jaw Crusher wrote:Eh, I don't think it's so much the show-accurate-toy thing that's slowing Hasbro up in terms of a toy line - at least if the evolution of their manufacturing ability in relation to past shows' designs is any indicator (even Beast Machines started generating toys much closer to the character designs only two or three years after the show's premiere, not to mention the Masterpiece line and some of the Classics figures since then - plus Siebenaler mentioned something about having designed a TF: P Optimus toy at Botcon) - as it is frankly not wanting to have to pull the plug on another cartoon-related toyline to make room for smearing more Movie stuff all over the store shelves. TF: Prime will have practically just begun when TF3 hits theaters, and given how closely many of the TF: Prime designs resemble or at least take significant design cues from their Movie counterparts to begin with, I can see where Hasbro also probably doesn't want to clutter shelves with two near-identical main lines.

Of course, I'd also like to think that it's possible that Hasbro wants to take advantage of the popularity of the Movies to generate further interest in a show that that's being designed with a different story and character trajectory than the Movies, at least the way Orci and Kurtzman have been describing it. I think Hasbro may be trying to position TF: Prime in such a way as to try and sidestep some of the criticisms that exist toward the Movies, and if this IS Bay's last gasp with the Movies, then they'll probably want this show to stick around a bit longer than some of the more recent TF shows, at least until they can figure out what they want to do next with the Movie portion of the brand, hence the more comprehensive creative effort that seems to be getting put into this one, and in focusing on everything BUT the toys at this point.

As for toys, if nothing else, Hasbro can always shoehorn waves of them into Generations if the demand for them becomes THAT strong.

Yeah, when in doubt about a franchise's future, look at the business side of things.

It does make sense to make them (The cartoon character models) closely related to the movie versions. I loved Hasbro for being wild and ambitious, creatively, in those off years between movies, but for retailers that meant they had a lot of left over product with no show creating a demand for them. So by making the show a "Generations" style cartoon it allows them to keep on promoting new toys without having to make new shows, it can create demand as needed. So I'm for it, but I'm not sure if it can last ten years though. I imagine the third film will tie in some how then as well.

Chupacabra Convoy wrote:Where did you read up this stuff? TFwiki.net? Just out of curiosity.

Yeah, that's the spot. I read bits and pieces of the overall plan that Hasbro has in mind for TFP at the forum here but the TFwiki entry for the show put all the stuff together in one article.

I truly don't know what Hasbro has planned. A cartoon lasting 7 to 10 years is a long time. This is almost in the throws of a weekly episodic anime like Bleach 5 years and counting. If this is geared toward kids then I doubt it. Seems like they think the TF brand can last a long time with young kids who are fans of the Movie line due to the success and so forth.

Don't worry, it's all part of their plan of world domination. TFP will survive. Maybe it'll be within Generations?

Convotron wrote:

Chupacabra Convoy wrote:Where did you read up this stuff? TFwiki.net? Just out of curiosity.

Yeah, that's the spot. I read bits and pieces of the overall plan that Hasbro has in mind for TFP at the forum here but the TFwiki entry for the show put all the stuff together in one article.

Yeah, those guys are bloodhounds when it comes to TF news. As for the show lasting 7 to 10 years, it really depends if it can get audience going on that long, but then again, Lost, BattleStar, and countless other animes went the distance.

As for the toys for TF:P, if the show's successful, then we'll see toys for them, and if not for the original cast of TF:P then definitely for any recurring/new characters that pop up. Again, the only reason why they're not doing the toys for the show now is that they want to focus on the toys for 3rd film. With Generations being out there with the PCC's there's simply not enough time to make them without any sort of loss of quality control.

Wow, this is the first I've heard of a long-running TF cartoon, stretching out to possibly 7-10 years with a bunch of complementary extended universe fiction. That sounds fantastic and dreadful at the same time, though - Transformers is an ever-evolving franchise, constantly rebooting itself with nearly every iteration. Aside from some G1 purists who hate everything beyond Beast Wars, this is one of the main things we love about TF - its vastness and unpredictability. As much as a massive, years-spanning arc sounds cool to me (that's one of the main reasons I liked the Unicron Tril. so much), it could also be the death knell for popular interest in the franchise. If things get too stale, people will start to forget about it. There's also the fact that a lot of viewers and TF fans probably won't like it or want to watch it - there's a group that falls into that category with every new show. If it lasts for up to 10 years, these people may just move on to something else entirely, having lost interest.

So yeah, I don't know about all that. I'd be perfectly happy with just another regular series before rebooting and starting fresh with some new ideas, and I'd like to think a lot of the fans are with me on that one. Although having a massive extended universe through games, novels, comics, etc. does sound unbelievably cool. Time will tell, I guess.

Jesterhead wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:If it doesnt have a toyline at least a year after its airiong, TF Prime is dead.

Perhaps it's going to be a genuinely good show and not need a toyline to keep it afloat?

Granted I wasn't a fan of either the toyline or the show, but didn't Animated start out on TV months before the toys were out? People froth at the mouth about how great Animated was, so why would Prime die if it's not immediately pimping toys? Animated proved that something can be the zomgbestevarr without toys on the shelves right away.

I think without toys it will definately fail

Just because we won't have any TF: Prime toys in the beginning, it doesn't mean we won't have any in the long run. I believe it was stated at SDCC or Botcon that they were currently in the design phase on Prime's Bulkhead toy. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's what was said.)

I don't think the lack of toys will seal the show's fate. I think it being on The Hub, on the most expensive tier of both cable and satellite will hurt the show immensely.

To get the hub, I'd have to take my cable bill to $150.00, and I'm just not willing to do so.

To get it on Satellite, you have to pay at least $70.00 and most likely more, just to get it.

Some parents are indulgent, but not that many. I most certainly don't know of any parents who would be willing to up their bills just so their kids can watch a show once a week.

That. That will kill TF:P before the lack of toys will.

If they really do intend on keeping TF:P as the main source of entertainment for the next 7-10 years, I do foresee the end of TransFormers. Because this will get old, quick. The kids will grow up, the audience will change, and the daunting task of keeping it fresh will be incredibly difficult.

And if it's true that Hasbro has stopped being a toy company and is focusing on being an entertainment company, I also foresee the end of the toyline too. If they spend more time and money on their entertainment divisions, they'll need to pull money from their toy division to bankroll it, or they'll say "We've come to realize that the show doesn't need the toys any more, so we've decided to stop producing these." or they'll cough up the rights to the toys to a 3rd party to handle the production, while they focus on the shows.

Right now? TransFormers as a whole property is fine. In the future? I'm not so sure. I wouldn't be surprised if we see the toyline come to a halt at some point in the future. And the shows and movies with it.

Nothing lasts forever, and we're already past the quarter century mark here, it's only a matter of time before we reach our shelf date.

Look at Star Trek. 40+ years and it needed a reboot to make headlines, and even then it didn't perform as well as they had hoped. Fans are still disillusioned, and we don't know how far they'll carry this alternate universe.

TF is slowly, but steadily heading towards that.

Sky-Quake wrote:I think without toys it will definately fail

Well, there are already several Prime optimus Prime toys. ROTF Leader, ROTF Voyager, TM Voyageer, TM Leader, etc...

turkishproverb wrote:

Sky-Quake wrote:I think without toys it will definately fail

Well, there are already several Prime optimus Prime toys. ROTF Leader, ROTF Voyager, TM Voyageer, TM Leader, etc...

Er...I think there's a miscommunication here.

TransFormers: Prime is the title of the new show. It's not Optimus Prime that we're talking about.

The new show has no toyline when it debuts and may not for the foreseeable future.

That's what we're talking about here.

Autobot032 wrote:

turkishproverb wrote:

Sky-Quake wrote:I think without toys it will definately fail

Well, there are already several Prime optimus Prime toys. ROTF Leader, ROTF Voyager, TM Voyageer, TM Leader, etc...

Er...I think there's a miscommunication here.

TransFormers: Prime is the title of the new show. It's not Optimus Prime that we're talking about.

The new show has no toyline when it debuts and may not for the foreseeable future.

That's what we're talking about here.

I was making a joke about the character design looking WAAAY too much like the films.

A joke. Meaning I understood the point but was trying to bright some levity to the discussion.

Autobot032 wrote:Just because we won't have any TF: Prime toys in the beginning, it doesn't mean we won't have any in the long run. I believe it was stated at SDCC or Botcon that they were currently in the design phase on Prime's Bulkhead toy. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's what was said.)

I don't think the lack of toys will seal the show's fate. I think it being on The Hub, on the most expensive tier of both cable and satellite will hurt the show immensely.

To get the hub, I'd have to take my cable bill to $150.00, and I'm just not willing to do so.

To get it on Satellite, you have to pay at least $70.00 and most likely more, just to get it.

Some parents are indulgent, but not that many. I most certainly don't know of any parents who would be willing to up their bills just so their kids can watch a show once a week.

That. That will kill TF:P before the lack of toys will.

If they really do intend on keeping TF:P as the main source of entertainment for the next 7-10 years, I do foresee the end of TransFormers. Because this will get old, quick. The kids will grow up, the audience will change, and the daunting task of keeping it fresh will be incredibly difficult.

And if it's true that Hasbro has stopped being a toy company and is focusing on being an entertainment company, I also foresee the end of the toyline too. If they spend more time and money on their entertainment divisions, they'll need to pull money from their toy division to bankroll it, or they'll say "We've come to realize that the show doesn't need the toys any more, so we've decided to stop producing these." or they'll cough up the rights to the toys to a 3rd party to handle the production, while they focus on the shows.

Right now? TransFormers as a whole property is fine. In the future? I'm not so sure. I wouldn't be surprised if we see the toyline come to a halt at some point in the future. And the shows and movies with it.

Nothing lasts forever, and we're already past the quarter century mark here, it's only a matter of time before we reach our shelf date.

Look at Star Trek. 40+ years and it needed a reboot to make headlines, and even then it didn't perform as well as they had hoped. Fans are still disillusioned, and we don't know how far they'll carry this alternate universe.

TF is slowly, but steadily heading towards that.

Hnnnn.......
You know, I just automatically assumed that I'd had the Hub in my current cable setup. I don't watch that much TV, so I don't know all the channel names, I admit. After reading your post though, I went and checked, and sure enough I don't have the Hub, and I've got what I thought was one of the pricier setups too.
While I was planning to give the show a chance, I won't be seeing it now, because like you, I'm not willing to take on the price hike just to catch one show I may or may not like.

I can't help but wonder how many others feel this way too; people who are genuinely interested in seeing it, but not willing to up the cable bill(?)

I feel you're right on some points about where the franchise could be headed, but that's a different discussion, I suppose.