The Energon Pub

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sledge wrote:Sorry, Sto, but I don't buy it. How does it give away the plot of the film to mention on their tech specs that Roddy and Glavy are the new faction leaders? If anything, that would increase audiences for the film, as you'd want to see what happened to Prime and Megs.

Also, have you read the tech specs for Roddy and Galvy? They were very clearly not written for the characters introduced in the movie.

It could have gone ether way.Theres no real way of knowing that it would have increase the numbers of the audiences if they knew before hand but you have to admit that if it had been on the spec's a great number of the films big scenes may have been dimished.
Remember this was 1986 and it was well before the days of the internet and great numbers of people knowing about films from leaked information.
If they had placed the info on the specs we would have knowen that Optimus was going to die almost 5 months before the film was released.We would know the both Hot Rod and Galvatron would be upgraded.
I think that if the information got out that early it would have lowered numbers in the audiences and that would have been a disaster....the film didnt do that well in the theatures.

This I have to completely disagree with. The toys were out before the movie and the tech specs say what they do. There was no spoiling the movie for anyone. I clearly remember many people going I have to see what happened to Prime and Megs, it had no bearing on what was written on a few toys.

Sledge wrote:Wait up, you're doing 2+2 and getting 5. Why would mentioning that Roddy and Galvy are the new leaders have to reveal that Prime was dead, and Megs upgraded?

In both cases it would have been a eazy guess.As it is once I saw the look of Rodimus I new he had to have some connection to Hot Rod.I assumed that he was a upgraded Hot Rod and most of my friends thought that Rodimus was a older brother to Hot Rod.

If the spec og Galvatron had said that he was the new leader, and not just some one that hated Megatron and wanted the leadership for his own, then I would have figured out the rest myself.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sledge wrote:Wait up, you're doing 2+2 and getting 5. Why would mentioning that Roddy and Galvy are the new leaders have to reveal that Prime was dead, and Megs upgraded?

In both cases it would have been a eazy guess.As it is once I saw the look of Rodimus I new he had to have some connection to Hot Rod.I assumed that he was a upgraded Hot Rod and most of my friends thought that Rodimus was a older brother to Hot Rod.

If the spec og Galvatron had said that he was the new leader, and not just some one that hated Megatron and wanted the leadership for his own, then I would have figured out the rest myself.

The Rodimus-HotRod connection was pretty darn obvious. I mean, similar deco, similar robot mode...

Oh, totally. I just don't see why mentioning on his tech specs that Roddy was the new Autobot leader would automatically mean Optimus is dead. Being a military commander isn't like being a king: you don't have to die to be replaced.

bookofjunon wrote:No offense dude, but it's which, not witch (just a little pet peeve, not tryin to be an ass). Catalogues. Well the Canadian Sears Wish Book, Consumers Distributing, Zellers, K-Mart (when it was in Canada), Woolco, Woolworths, and a few others...

Thank you for the spelling correction.
And for the info on the Catalogues.

bookofjunon wrote:Again, your saying my, amoung that of others is wrong. As I said at the time, the impression was UM was going to be leader until they released Rodimus.

No offense dude, but it's among, not amoung ( its just a little pet peeve of yours is it not?]

I'm not saying that your impression that UM was going to be leader is wrong...as a matter of fact I shared it myself.What I am saying that we were both wrong.Its a fact.

bookofjunon wrote:Same year, UM was first, not all about the same time. Since UM came before Roddy I am still correct. One did come first.

Never said you were wrong...I was just pointing out that the time gap was smaller then you may have precieved it to be.I'm not trying to argue with you just pointing out some facts.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:No it wasnt there first decision but from very early on it was desided to kill off as many of the season 1 and 2 transformers to make way for the new toyline and that inclued Optimus Prime and Megatron.And I would assume that the moment that they desided not to use the Upgraded power convoy toy mold as a upgrade for Prime that the question as to his living or dieing was settled.

Even the most earlt scripts had the movie following the character formula used in Star Wars Luke Skywalker.

bookofjunon wrote:Sorry dude, you're incorrect.

Can you tell me how?Can you site some proof?Besides the test footage that we've seen that is at least the earlyest animation of the film we've seen witch gives us some idea on how the script was written....even the early story bords show that they had plans to kill many of the season 1 and 2 TF's including Optimus Prime.

As far as I know there has never been any finished scripts released or leaked that features Optimus Prime surviving the film and there's definatley no test footage, there's not even any story boards of sketch work that indicates that they ever took the idea or Optimus bing the hero of the film seriously.

I know it came up as an idea but if it were truly a option then they would have invested some man power on the idea and we would have at least seen some story boards done with that idea in mind.

So if I'm incorrect as you ay can you please point me in the direction of the correct information so that I can be inlightened as you?

bookofjunon wrote:You're arguing semantics, none of which you can prove. You have a theory, a good one I'll acknowledge, but you don't know for sure and yours is no less valid than mine.

You have to admit that my "theory" as you call it has more circumstancial evidence to back it up.

bookofjunon wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sledge wrote:Sorry, Sto, but I don't buy it. How does it give away the plot of the film to mention on their tech specs that Roddy and Glavy are the new faction leaders? If anything, that would increase audiences for the film, as you'd want to see what happened to Prime and Megs.

Also, have you read the tech specs for Roddy and Galvy? They were very clearly not written for the characters introduced in the movie.

It could have gone ether way.Theres no real way of knowing that it would have increase the numbers of the audiences if they knew before hand but you have to admit that if it had been on the spec's a great number of the films big scenes may have been dimished.
Remember this was 1986 and it was well before the days of the internet and great numbers of people knowing about films from leaked information.
If they had placed the info on the specs we would have knowen that Optimus was going to die almost 5 months before the film was released.We would know the both Hot Rod and Galvatron would be upgraded.
I think that if the information got out that early it would have lowered numbers in the audiences and that would have been a disaster....the film didnt do that well in the theatures.

This I have to completely disagree with. The toys were out before the movie and the tech specs say what they do. There was no spoiling the movie for anyone. I clearly remember many people going I have to see what happened to Prime and Megs, it had no bearing on what was written on a few toys.

I dont get your point.None of the toy spec's had any info about the movie.Rodimes's tec spec did not have him listed as leader nor did it mention that he was Hot Rod....the same go's for Galvatron Scourge and the others.No info about the movie at all.

What Sleage and I were talking about is wether or not if they had placed some info on the specs would as many fans have bothered going to see the film.

I believe it could have gone ether way.

I think we're in danger of losing sight of the real issue here: Rodimus Prime was a dick.

Sledge wrote:Oh, totally. I just don't see why mentioning on his tech specs that Roddy was the new Autobot leader would automatically mean Optimus is dead. Being a military commander isn't like being a king: you don't have to die to be replaced.

Because what need for a new leader would there have been if the old leader was alive and well.In the cartoon Optimus was the leader of all autobots not just a small group.

For the autobots to have a new leader would meen that something would have had to happen to the old one and since Optimus was the kind of bot that would fight to the death it would have been eazy to guess what happened to him.

Sledge wrote:I think we're in danger of losing sight of the real issue here: Rodimus Prime was a dick.

Your right about that

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Because what need for a new leader would there have been if the old leader was alive and well.In the cartoon Optimus was the leader of all autobots not just a small group.

Ah, but was he? Given the characters who turned up in Seasons 2 and 3, there were clearly Autobots left on Cybertron. Someone must have been in command of them. So was Prime commander of all Autobots, or just the ones who ended up on Earth?

Also, Prime didn't have the Matrix until at least somewhere mid-Season 2. So there must have been a leader above Prime to pass the Matrix to him somewhere between the events of A Prime Problem and the movie.

Sledge wrote:Ah, but was he? Given the characters who turned up in Seasons 2 and 3, there were clearly Autobots left on Cybertron. Someone must have been in command of them. So was Prime commander of all Autobots, or just the ones who ended up on Earth?

Most of the season 2 Autobots showed up out of nowhere.And according to the season 2 episode "Desertion of the Dinobots" were on earth with Prime from the very begining.

According to that episode, Tracks Powerglide Preceptor and most of the rest of the season 2 bot and cons were all sufering from depleted levels of cybertoineum [spelling?] Preceptor even says that after being on earth for over 4 millions years they needed a infusion of cybertoineum to repair themselfs.

If the season 2 bots were new arrivals from Cybertron then they would have been functional.I dont like it ether but it is what was said in the episode.

And ether way even if they had different comanders while oaway from Optimus they all defired to him when they got to earth.

The only Autobot we saw that really came from Cybertron in season 2 were Omega Supream and the female Autobots and both defired command to Optimus when he was around.

Sledge wrote:Also, Prime didn't have the Matrix until at least somewhere mid-Season 2. So there must have been a leader above Prime to pass the Matrix to him somewhere between the events of A Prime Problem and the movie.

What gave you that idea???

The Matrix never showed up in season 2 at all.We see it for the first toime in the Movie....But in the season 3 opener, while Rodimus is inside the matrix the Voice of Optimus says to Rodimus that Alpha Trion gave him the Matrix when he was Orion Pax.
Here take a look...its at time index 10:33
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0EvaA59ZhvI&feature=related
So even thou we never saw the matrix before the movie Optimus had it since he was upgraded according to Five faces of Darkness episode 4 from season 3.

What about all the guys who show up in Season 3? Targetmasters, Headmasters, etc. Not to mention the new guys in the Movie? Or had they all been hiding in the Ark as well?

And Prime clearly doesn't have the Matrix until at least after A PRime Problem, as Teletraan's scan of Prime and his clone doesn't show it. On top of that, in the Movie, Prime passes the Matrix to Ultra Magnus "as it was passed to me." Alpha Trion didn't sustain mortal wounds in battle, and certainly didn't pass the Matrix to Prime before he died. If anything, this is more proof of Hot Rod not being the Chosen One. Clearly, he wasn't actually viewing the past (as Prime's knowledge in the Matrix wouldn't make such stupid mistakes), but in fact Hot Rod was suffering hallucinations brought on by his near-death experience.

Sledge wrote:What about all the guys who show up in Season 3? Targetmasters, Headmasters, etc. Not to mention the new guys in the Movie? Or had they all been hiding in the Ark as well?

No but like I said....they all difered command to Optimus when he was around.

Sledge wrote:And Prime clearly doesn't have the Matrix until at least after A PRime Problem, as Teletraan's scan of Prime and his clone doesn't show it. On top of that, in the Movie, Prime passes the Matrix to Ultra Magnus "as it was passed to me." Alpha Trion didn't sustain mortal wounds in battle, and certainly didn't pass the Matrix to Prime before he died. If anything, this is more proof of Hot Rod not being the Chosen One. Clearly, he wasn't actually viewing the past (as Prime's knowledge in the Matrix wouldn't make such stupid mistakes), but in fact Hot Rod was suffering hallucinations brought on by his near-death experience.

Thats wishfull thinking....and honestly your theroy would clear up some of the inconsistant story telling of the G1 toon.But If Rodimus wasnt viewing the past then all the information he [and we] learned is wrong as well.

But to ascept your theroy I would have to imange that a un-seen and un-heard of leader came to earth in the middle of season 2,had a great big fight, was injured in battle and passed the matrix to Prime and died.

And not only that but I would also have to ascept that what we saw and heard in "5 faces of darkness" was all a lie.And by extention much of season 3.

And the only reason to believe such a theroy you can give me is that it would just further a "Rodimus sucks" agenda.

Or that Telatrans scans dont show the Matrix.....It had not been invented and placed into the mythos yet so of cource it wouldnt show up in a scan.The Matrix was a plot device for the movie and it was further elaberated on in the 3rd season.

When Optimus said "as it was passed to me" does not have to meen that he got it from the leader before him.It was a metaphor.Or have you forgotten that when Orion was rebuilt into Optimus that there was no leader of the Autobot army because there was no war.Alpha Trion intoduces him as the first of their new defenders.
Here look...time frame 5:06
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QbWG9-GSt4I

What your trying to do by saying that because we never see the Matrix in season 1 and 2 meens that he didnt have it yet is just like the guys that ask why we didnt hear about sparks in the G1 toon.

The fact that is that in the episodes "five faces of darkness" they retcon the Matrix into Optimus Prime from the time he was rebuilt by Alpha Trion just like the episode "War dawn" told us that in OP's past that he was called Orion Pax.

Wether we like it or not it is the offical story.

And besides the idea of the Matrix was taken from the Marvel Comic book where the matrix was indroduce in issue 4 or 5 [cant remember] and OP says that it was given to him by a Autobot elder.

Look, either you can say "the writers screwed up" or we can play this the fun way and attempt to reconcile the differences. If any part of your argument is going to be "the writers screwed up," we can't have the debate.

Now, clearly the Matrix DID exist prior to the Movie as it contains the wisdom of ancient Autobot leaders. Equally clearly, Prime didn't have it in A Prime Problem. Therefore, at some point an Autobot commander who ranked higher than Prime died and passed him the Matrix after A Prime Problem and before The Movie.

Your point about sparks is nothing like the issue at hand, because Beast Wars (despite what some people would like to believe) clearly doesn't follow on from the G1 cartoons.

It's really quite simple. Hot Rod, in the Movie, was intended to be the Chosen One. Season 3 does not carry on with this idea. Given that Optimus Prime had an affinity with the Matrix that Hot Rod didn't, and given it was Optimus who actually used the power of the Matrix, it becomes clear that Optimus was actually the Chosen One. My theory explains why Rodimus sees and hears things that blatantly contradict what we as viewers know as objective fact: Rodimus didn't "journey into the Matrix" at all. He experienced hallucinations as a result of a near-death experience.

Also: why would Prime use a metaphor on his death bed? I understand that for your theory to work, Prime has to say something that isn't true, but what is his motivation for that?

With all these negative comments against Rodimus Prime, could Ultra Magnus be a better leader than, at least, Rodimus?

If so, then the all powerful wisdom of the Matrix in choosing Hot Rod, was not so wise after all.

My theory is such that the cartoon constantly contradicted itself.

However, Alpha Trion was the Autobot leader before Prime, he was also the elder who passed the Matrix to Prime. That much is easy to extrapolate based on what we know.

It's also known that Alphat Trion gives up his life to help Prime create the Aerialbots. Prime said, "One Autobot gave his life so 6 could be born."

Since we do not know for sure, it is possible Optimus was given the matrix at that point.

Sledge, sto_vo_kor_2000 and bookofjunon I've been reading the thoughts you guys have been writing with great interest. Refrained from reply till now.

I'm really happy to know that there are fans out there who still care about G1 lore rather than just being mindless collecting drones whose next hit comes from the purchase of another toy to tick off the 'acquired' box on their checklist.

I think both the theories proffered about the Matrix are possible.

If we take it all the way serious, like Sledge suggested, and assume the writers didnt screw up, then it is possible that (1) Prime obtained the Matrix between A Prime Problem and TFTM; or (2) he could have had the Matrix all along but it was buried too deep in his chest for the probe to detect. We see that there is an extra covering for the Matrix even after Prime's windsheilds open in TFTM; or (3) the Matrix is so scared that it has to remain secret, even to other Autobots unless in the event of a leader's demise, that Teletraan-1 decided to censor that aspect of Prime's internal scan from watching eyes.

Alternatively, we could say that Prime always had the Matrix and had it since War Dawn but someone somewhere screwed up when writing, directing and producing A Prime Problem.

I would like to offer this as another possible explanation. Some sources (I know I read it somewhere, dunno where but can possibly track this down if too controversial), suggests that the TFTM script was commissioned and scripting began shortly after Season 1 kicked off. The script and production for TFTM was underway concurrent with when Season 1 and Season 2 were airing. It is possible that (1) writers were not privy to the TFTM script at all; or (2) writers knew about the Matrix but failed to write it into the regular cartoons; or (3) writers knew about the Matrix but purposefully left it out because the concept and the look of the Matrix is not fully finalized till late into the production of TFTM (see early story boards and animation test footage, which was available on http://www.spacebridge.net but the site is now offline).

Personally, I believe that it is the real world situation that the writers were not privy to the TFTM script; but if we were to want to explain purely in terms of TF lore and assume that the writers didn't screw up, I'd go for this point I said above: (2) he could have had the Matrix all along but it was buried too deep in his chest for the probe to detect. We see that there is an extra covering for the Matrix even after Prime's windsheilds open in TFTM

I will always prefer to try and explain things within the context of the series. Of course, the reason there are so many contradictions is that the writers weren't working with a clearly defined backstory, they just wrote whatever made a good story. But it's far more fun to try and explain the contradictions. And it gives you the material for some great fanfic ideas. Based on my theory, there's a missing story where an Autobot leader dies and passes the Matrix to Prime. And there's later stories with Hot Rod coming to terms with him not being the special Chosen One everyone thought he was. That to me is far more interesting than just saying "the writers screwed up" and moving on to discuss exactly how many milimeters the latest Skywarp's missiles are too long by.

One thing we all knew and Sto_vo-Kor asked me where I heard it... Was that the movie was written while they were still working on Season 1. At that point, they were still considering keeping Optimus Prime as the defeater of Unicron.

I don't remember where I heard that, but I remember seeing in from one of the people who worked on the show and the movie.

The idea didn't last long, but it was the original concept.

I like to think the Matrix was passed on to Prime by Alpha Trion before he died in the episode Prime had the Aerialbots built.

Maybe at the time the eldest of the Autobots, Alpha Trion was merely the guardian of the matrix until he was needed to pass it on.

Sledge wrote:Look, either you can say "the writers screwed up" or we can play this the fun way and attempt to reconcile the differences. If any part of your argument is going to be "the writers screwed up," we can't have the debate.

I would agree that the writters didnt think their plot trew.

Sledge wrote:Now, clearly the Matrix DID exist prior to the Movie as it contains the wisdom of ancient Autobot leaders.

What I ment was that the idea of the Matrix did not exsist yet.The writters had not thought up the idea yet in the serries.

[/quote]
Equally clearly, Prime didn't have it in A Prime Problem.[/quote]

How is that clear? The only thing that is clear is that the writters of the movie and season 3 retconed the Matrix into the myth of Transformers and placed Alphatrion givving OP the matrix when he repaired him fron Orion Pax.

If you chose to thing that in error and doesnt make sence that fine....thats your right but you cant change the facts of what was showen in the serries nor can you change the dialog of the episodes in question.
[/quote]
Therefore, at some point an Autobot commander who ranked higher than Prime died and passed him the Matrix after A Prime Problem and before The Movie.[/quote]

Thats fan fiction.The real episodes say otherwise.

Sledge wrote:Your point about sparks is nothing like the issue at hand, because Beast Wars (despite what some people would like to believe) clearly doesn't follow on from the G1 cartoons.

I worded it wrong but the point still stands.Let me explain....While I'm not a big fan of the retcons to TF history done in both Beast show's and books like The Ultimate guide, wether one choses to except them or not is their choise.So the idea of sparks in G1 can be dismissed eazly.

But any of the retcons done at the time that the serries was being produced and aired, like the Construction origins or the fact that Alphatrion gave Orion Pax the Matrix when he rebuilt him into Optimus Prime can not be dismissed with as eazly.

Sledge wrote:It's really quite simple. Hot Rod, in the Movie, was intended to be the Chosen One. Season 3 does not carry on with this idea. Given that Optimus Prime had an affinity with the Matrix that Hot Rod didn't, and given it was Optimus who actually used the power of the Matrix, it becomes clear that Optimus was actually the Chosen One.

Wether or not Hot Rod was the chosen is up for debate [I dont think he was] but it is a fact that he did have an affinity with the Matrix.That is made clear the second that he opens it and is transformed into Rodimus Prime.

Hot Rod was not the only one to have an affinity with the Matrix in the G1 toon.Optimus and the Decepticon Scourge both did as well.All 3 of them were able to use the power of the Matrix in one way or the other.

So it is clear [to me at least] that there are more then one transformer at a time with a affinity with the Matrix.

Sledge wrote: My theory explains why Rodimus sees and hears things that blatantly contradict what we as viewers know as objective fact: Rodimus didn't "journey into the Matrix" at all. He experienced hallucinations as a result of a near-death experience.

Your theory is a good one...and your welcome to it.But for others to accept it they would have to disreguard what many consider to be the "holy scripture" of TF history.

Your theory also dictates that the fans disreguard the information learned in 5 faces of darkness and adobt information about an other leader that was never seen or heard of.....its a hard one to accept.

P.S. I like the idea of the "hallucinations from a near-death experience" thing:grin:

Sledge wrote:Also: why would Prime use a metaphor on his death bed? I understand that for your theory to work, Prime has to say something that isn't true, but what is his motivation for that?

Useing a metaphor is not saying that its not true.Its just a way of seeing things in a different light.Much like Ben telling Luke that his father was killed by Darth Vader.And besides its not the only "metaphor" Optimus used on his death bed.The "Light our Darkest hour" staement can also be taken as a metaphor when you think about it.....or else Optimus wouldnt have called the hate plague their Darkest hour ether.

bookofjunon wrote:My theory is such that the cartoon constantly contradicted itself.

However, Alpha Trion was the Autobot leader before Prime, he was also the elder who passed the Matrix to Prime. That much is easy to extrapolate based on what we know.

It's also known that Alphat Trion gives up his life to help Prime create the Aerialbots. Prime said, "One Autobot gave his life so 6 could be born."

Since we do not know for sure, it is possible Optimus was given the matrix at that point.

Thats an interesting point.It could have been in that episode as well but it would also contradict the information in 5 faces of darkness but it wouldnt be the first time that we got contradictiong info from the G1 toon.

bookofjunon wrote:One thing we all knew and Sto_vo-Kor asked me where I heard it... Was that the movie was written while they were still working on Season 1. At that point, they were still considering keeping Optimus Prime as the defeater of Unicron.

I don't remember where I heard that, but I remember seeing in from one of the people who worked on the show and the movie.

The idea didn't last long, but it was the original concept.

I like to think the Matrix was passed on to Prime by Alpha Trion before he died in the episode Prime had the Aerialbots built.

Maybe at the time the eldest of the Autobots, Alpha Trion was merely the guardian of the matrix until he was needed to pass it on.

I knew it was one of the original concept's for the film....that wasnt in question....what was in question was how that concept related to the time frame of the toy add's for Untra Magnus.

Yes one of the original concept's for the film was that OP be the hero of the story, an other of the original concept's was that Cybertron it self would also Transform into a giant robot and fight Unicron.

Which [I got it right this time? ] of these concept's came first who's know's but it is clear that both ideas didnt make it far into the planning stages of the film and it is highly unlikly that those ideas would have spilled over into the production of the toy adds for Ultra Magnus.It was more probable that the adds were written to give the imprestion that UM be the leader so that they could keep some of the plot to the film under wraps.

I really feel you're not getting what I'm saying. Either you can say "the writers screwed up" OR you can attempt to reconcile all the apparent contradictions.

If we ignore the writers screwing up as an explanation, then the Matrix has existed all through G1. This means Prime didn't have it in A Prime Problem, or he could have settled the identity problem very quickly by pulling the thing out and saying "I must be the real Optimus Prime, because I've got the Matrix." Agreed?

Sledge wrote:I will always prefer to try and explain things within the context of the series. Of course, the reason there are so many contradictions is that the writers weren't working with a clearly defined backstory, they just wrote whatever made a good story. But it's far more fun to try and explain the contradictions. And it gives you the material for some great fanfic ideas. Based on my theory, there's a missing story where an Autobot leader dies and passes the Matrix to Prime. And there's later stories with Hot Rod coming to terms with him not being the special Chosen One everyone thought he was. That to me is far more interesting than just saying "the writers screwed up" and moving on to discuss exactly how many milimeters the latest Skywarp's missiles are too long by.

No the writters werent to conserned with continuity.Most cartoon writters arent.....nor are most sitcom writters ether.The way theysee things is "if it makes a good episode who cares if it mess'es with history".

I too like to explain things within the context of the series but it is fun to come up with theroies that explain the contradictions from the episodes...but I prefer to make my theroies fit more smothly into the series as apose to creating more contradictions with my theroies.

For exsample the looking for alternitive definitions for the words used in the dialog of the episodes...like Megatron saying that they built the Constructions in the episode "heavy metal war" and the fact that we later learn that the Constructions were on Cybertron over 4 millions years ago and friends to Omega Supream.

My theroy to explain the contradiction was that Megatron built them new bodies on earth and didnt build them from scrach.

What contradictions have my theories created?

Sledge wrote:I really feel you're not getting what I'm saying. Either you can say "the writers screwed up" OR you can attempt to reconcile all the apparent contradictions.

No I do understand what your saying.And I'm not saying that the writters did or did not screw up.Truth be told the writters arent to blame for this problem...its the producers.They had differen teams of writters working on the film and others working on the toon.Both teams were working independily of each other and didnt really have a clue on what the other team was writting.

Sledge wrote:If we ignore the writers screwing up as an explanation, then the Matrix has existed all through G1. This means Prime didn't have it in A Prime Problem, or he could have settled the identity problem very quickly by pulling the thing out and saying "I must be the real Optimus Prime, because I've got the Matrix." Agreed?

Your forgeting the posibility that the cloning prosses could have also created a clone of the Matrix for the imposter...remember that Megatron said that the scan would mimic every detail of Optimus Prime.He sais and I qoute:
"This is a clone of our enemy....A perfect replica down to the last transister."

Here look its at time frame 4:40
http://youtube.com/watch?v=f3mrAHuvm44

This explaintion fits the serries far better then your unseen onherad of leader comming and droping off the matrix between episodes.