The Energon Pub

Serpent O - R wrote:Hmmm... Oh, here's an idea!

How about we raise import tariffs to the point where our corporations will save money by moving their manufacturing plants back to the states where they can give jobs to the countless unemployed people that are looking for work so they can have money to spend in our economy which will raise the value of the dollar back to where it was so the inflation costs will be reduced back to a normal level that working families will feel comfortable spending some of their money on things like yet another repaint of Cybertron Jetfire?

Oh, you're right. That will never work...

Sure it could, if you don't mind paying $20 or more for a deluxe figure

From what I understand, stores don't put out new stock until the old stock is gone. With TFA deluxes and voyagers shelfwarming like nobody's business, there are very few Universe figures out on display. I love the animated line, but it doesn't seem as if a lot of kids do. That being said, the animated toys just sit out on display while the excellent universe figures are probably collecting dust in the back rooms. Hell, I think stores don't even order new stock from Hasbro until the old stock is all but cleared out.

This probably accounts for why I've only seen one Universe Inferno, one Universe Leo Prime and why I STILL haven't found Vector Prime yet! I hate to jump on the band wagon, but it seems as if Animated toys are bogging down sales and production of new Universe figures (which are, IMO superior). Now, with the movie line coming in next month, I honestly see things getting worse...

fenrir72 wrote:Another stupid move was the release of pinky Prime 'nuff said. Just an underwhelming experience. On the contrary, G1 re-issues are selling like hotcakes if I'm wrong well show me a place where they are gathering dust?( IH and Ratchet may be the exception though) and last but not the least, all this re-paints.........stoooooooooooopid!

Pinky Prime has its issues, but I think the $70 price tag was its fatal flaw... That's asking a lot from obsessed collectors, but for your average consumer or parent, not a chance that thing's moving off the shelves at that price!

GuyIncognito wrote:Meanwhile, I can't find Universe 2.0 Deluxes anywhere, even though I'm ready and willing to buy them!

Starfield wrote:It seems to me by casual observation that the Legends class were good sellers, but the shops around me just stopped restocking them. I never did see the Bumblebee/Brawn/Beachcomber wave, and I looked.

Universe Deluxe class and Legend class figures (I am unsure about Voyager or Ultra) are currently marked in store inventories as "Not On File" and "Do Not Restock". They will not be carried any further in preparation for the upcoming movie.

I see a lot of blame hitting Animated toys, but in my area they were moving at a pretty steady pace. It is only recently that there has been a glut, and it's with the more recent waves (sentinel Prime, Swoop and forward) which coincides with the price hike.

Someone mentioned that WalMart, and Target had TF stuff at around $8 right before the price hike, $8 to $12 is a lot for people to swallow. Most people don't "get" that it is a combination of the store ending a cheap price with the mfr increasing the price. Most mom & dad shoppers just see a huge jump in cost and tell junior "no".

The other complaint I see is repaints, but I don't recall a whole lot of repainting in the TFA line. Elite BB, 2 leader class repaints (which I admit are kinda dumb), a couple Starscream redecos (which most people, including me, are asking for MORE of) and .... well that's it.

And Hasbro isn't really known for doing a good job in circulating product either. Some areas will have tons of an item, while others will never see it. I've never laid eyes on a the black repaint Megatron, and I think I saw a Roadbuster Magnus once. So far I've only seen a handful of Wreck-Gars in store.

Mkall wrote:

Serpent O - R wrote:Hmmm... Oh, here's an idea!

How about we raise import tariffs to the point where our corporations will save money by moving their manufacturing plants back to the states where they can give jobs to the countless unemployed people that are looking for work so they can have money to spend in our economy which will raise the value of the dollar back to where it was so the inflation costs will be reduced back to a normal level that working families will feel comfortable spending some of their money on things like yet another repaint of Cybertron Jetfire?

Oh, you're right. That will never work...

Sure it could, if you don't mind paying $20 or more for a deluxe figure

How do you figure $20 for a deluxe? The only reason they jumped up to where they are now is our economy adjusting the dollar to the value of gold. If the dollar starts to go up in value deluxes, at their current price point, will be a profit engine. Enough of a profit engine to afford the salaries of american factory workers who will have money to spend on their craft, as it were.

If anything, the price will stay where it is. Let's say the price does go up again, a buck or two to $15. Is that too much to pay to know that you are supporting a non-service based american industry?

What would you complain about more, $15 for a deluxe or an income tax increase to cover all of america's unemployed labor on unemployment, welfare, link, medicare, etc.?

1) no one has figures for us to buy
2) The prices have been jacked up to retarded prices and in this economy that wont fly
3)you keep making crappy cross over figures no one cares about
4) crappy repaints of figures no one cares about.


Think i covered it all. If hasbro fixes these problems i think their profits will go back up. But they wont since the craptastic movie is around the corner and any thing slapped with TF on it is going to sell well. Damn it just hit me, since stores are carrying less stock now that means its going to be a bitch and a half to find the movie figures. Let the battles begin.

Serpent O - R wrote:

Mkall wrote:

Serpent O - R wrote:Hmmm... Oh, here's an idea!

How about we raise import tariffs to the point where our corporations will save money by moving their manufacturing plants back to the states where they can give jobs to the countless unemployed people that are looking for work so they can have money to spend in our economy which will raise the value of the dollar back to where it was so the inflation costs will be reduced back to a normal level that working families will feel comfortable spending some of their money on things like yet another repaint of Cybertron Jetfire?

Oh, you're right. That will never work...

Sure it could, if you don't mind paying $20 or more for a deluxe figure

How do you figure $20 for a deluxe? The only reason they jumped up to where they are now is our economy adjusting the dollar to the value of gold. If the dollar starts to go up in value deluxes, at their current price point, will be a profit engine. Enough of a profit engine to afford the salaries of american factory workers who will have money to spend on their craft, as it were.

I figure you know most of this, but I'll type it out anyways for the uninformed. A figure's cost is made up of three factors: Design and initial stages (mold casting etc), production materials and personnel costs.

The first cost factor remains unchanged. Design personnel are at Hasbro and probably make the same. Mold castings and prototype phases are nearly insignificant compared to the cost of full-blown manufacturing.

The second cost factor changed significantly in the last year. The price of oil has caused plastic costs to jump, causing Hasbro to scale back on quality to a point that they could not compromise quality any further, prompting the price jump. The fact the economy decided to tank isn't as big a factor to the price hike as some may think. It has though limited the purchasing power of Hasbro's target demographic.

Now the third cost factor is what would cause the jump in figure prices: personnel costs. In china where these are made, the laborers don't make as much as they would in the US, they don't have pensions, they don't have unions, they don't have health insurance. In the US laborers would have to make at least minimum wage, would requite various severance benefits, safer working conditions, insurance and other benefits that make general labor costs unattractive to companies. I guarantee that Hasbro would pay at least 4-6x per US employee than they would Chinese employee. Guess who they would pass that increase on to? Customers.

"Buy America" campaigns, while patriotic, make corporations cringe

What is a:

Pinky Prime

I have to agree consumer interest may be one of a variety of factors here. When Classics 2.0 was announced I was feverishly excited, the prototypes and the promises all pointed towards something fresh and yet faithful to us as collectors/consumers.

Then what happened?

Oh hey guys, wouldn't Cybertron Soundwave make a neat Blaster? Or what about Cyclonus as a Technobot?

Furthermore when the toys did come out they looked nothing like sketches and prototypes did, and although I don't own any, because to be honest I'm not going to pay £13 for a Galvatron that I don't necessarily need, friends of mine who have bought Universe have complained about the build quality.

I'm sure Henkei's are better, but in the current economic climate these aren't really things we need. Maybe I'm getting old here, but any (child or) adult who protests that they:

need

these things has some serious issues.

If I had the disposable income I had from my two prior jobs then maybe things would be different, and I like somebody earlier would be complaining about shares and investment. I still think I would be a bit more critical in my purchases than I have been, but I'm sure those times when I've picked up a toy and put it down again would turn out rather different.

I used to buy a two a month, that was nearly a year ago. If I get anything this year it will be a leader class RoFL sorry, RoTF Megatron.

Like Mkall has already said Hasbro building toy making plants in the U.S. is a nice idea if a little sweet. You do realise they would probably be lobbying from environmentalists, then you'd have unions and all sorts to deal with, not to mention the impediment and cost of transferring production.

Put that all together you'd have delayed lines and increase retail cost. With a summer blockbuster on the way? I don't think so.

Better stick where we are after all the Yangtze River dolphin is dead already what more harm could we do.

*moot*

Serpent O - R wrote:What would you complain about more, $15 for a deluxe or an income tax increase to cover all of america's unemployed labor on unemployment, welfare, link, medicare, etc.?

Thing may be different in the U.S. but here in the U.K. I see where a large chunk of my wages is going and I sigh. You may think me lacking in compassion or even a fascist but at least with the increase in the price of toy you'd have a choice about whether or not to pay it...



I personally hope

Civilization

in it's present state does a total 180 and we have no choice but to resort to Anarcho-Capitalism.

http://www.ozarkia.net/bill/anarchism/faq.html#part8

I'll uh, get back to my day dreaming...

Mkall wrote:

Serpent O - R wrote:

Mkall wrote:

Serpent O - R wrote:

"Buy America" campaigns, while patriotic, make corporations cringe

As bad as this may sound to some, I'm not trying to be patriotic.

I think it makes corporate accountants and ceo's cringe, but Joe and Jane White-collar stand to benefit with the rest, but that's getting away from my point.

All these companies that are losing money because they are not putting it back where they got it from.

Like you said, the majority of their expenses are spent on mass production. So most of hasbro's money is getting pumped into the eastern market.

But hasbro is a western company with a western culture audience. So, it has to bring its product back here so they can generate a profit from the western market.

The problem is that the western market is on life support because it is running out of money. The western market doesn't produce anything the eastern market needs on any significant level, so our money just sits there.

This terrible situation can be avoided if companies produced the product where their customer base is located to keep the cycle of money flowing forever.

[my head hurts]

Hell, the only new figures I've seen here in mid-Europe under 4 months were the TFU Deluxes (Cyclonus, Hound, Cheetor), that came last week, 2 TFA Voyagers (SW and SW) and some activators. And that's all.
Of course some TFA voyagers are still sitting on the shelves, but for 40$ nobody will buy them, but the new stuff that arrives is sold out under days.

Serpent O - R wrote:
All these companies that are losing money because they are not putting it back where they got it from.

Like you said, the majority of their expenses are spent on mass production. So most of hasbro's money is getting pumped into the eastern market.

But hasbro is a western company with a western culture audience. So, it has to bring its product back here so they can generate a profit from the western market.

The problem is that the western market is on life support because it is running out of money. The western market doesn't produce anything the eastern market needs on any significant level, so our money just sits there.

This terrible situation can be avoided if companies produced the product where their customer base is located to keep the cycle of money flowing forever.

This makes perfect sense to you and me, and in an ideal world this would be how things are. Centralisation of production and distribution nearer the actual consumer market would ultimately weather economic turmoil better in the long run.

Heck it may even avoid it all together.

But in the Western corporate world, this like anything that makes sense or requires an essence of thought, effort or compassion is too costly and not viable.

Of course I say Western but what I really mean is America and the UK. As far as I can tell Europe seems to be doing o.k. but then Europe didn't get on it's high horse and go lusting for oil. money and power.

I hate to say it but from discussion with some Middle Eastern friends of mine it seems had Bush the Sequel not come along with his crackpot ideologies and his money grubbing father and cronies then the Western economy would be in a far better state.

There are a huge number of Middle Eastern companies and individuals sitting on mountains of money and prior to Gulf War Two many of them were considering investing in Western companies or registering on Western Stock Markets.

Now these individuals weren't/aren't neccesarily Pro-Saddam or Al Qaeda or whatever reactionary instinct or (right-wing) individuals might tell you but they could see the real reasoning behind the alledged:

War on Terror

i.e. Territorial conquest or influence. So they pulled out, held back or held off.

Couple that with increased military spending, a falsely perceived sense of economic and political superiority and a whole other plethora of factors and you're left with what we have now.

It's alright though Dubya's retired to his ranch, Blair is now a Catholic *lolwot* and we've brought peace to Iraq.

Anyway, what's past is past, and unfortunately there is a lot of mess to clear, here, there and everywhere. The older and wiser among us, or do I mean more cynical, will realise that some of this will never be cleared up and that it's chaotic nature or fragility is intrinsic to the power structure.

But hey if we all wish, trip or try hard enough the world might just be a better place.

Until ancient evil rises from the pyramid to blow us all into J'nwan...

I blame TF animated. stupid show. stupid toys.

Wraith47 wrote:I blame TF animated. stupid show. stupid toys.

Blasphemy!

Primus C-00 wrote:

Serpent O - R wrote:

This makes perfect sense to you and me, and in an ideal world this would be how things are.
...
Until ancient evil rises from the pyramid to blow us all into J'nwan...

Thanks, that helps my case.

No problem. Like you say:

Now is our moment to get what we wanted for so long...

Seriously I like your idea for centralised (related to consumer market) production and distribution. I'm just an old and embittered cynic.

Corporations and other organisational bodies need fresh thinkers like you.

Like Arcana said of Brainstorm:

I find his youthful ideas most refreshing.

Serpent O - R wrote:

Mkall wrote:

Serpent O - R wrote:

Mkall wrote:

Serpent O - R wrote:

"Buy America" campaigns, while patriotic, make corporations cringe

As bad as this may sound to some, I'm not trying to be patriotic.

Sorry, wasn't implying that was the case. More of a general statement towards the current economic situation and attitudes rather than personal choice.

I think you mentioned it somewhere, but I did forget the associated costs in transporting the goods. That would definitely fall with local production facilities. I don't know how much shipping en masse from China costs, but if it's anything like (ebay x 1,000,000) then that could keep prices down, but there would still be a small increase methinks.

rpetras wrote:I see a lot of blame hitting Animated toys, but in my area they were moving at a pretty steady pace. It is only recently that there has been a glut, and it's with the more recent waves (sentinel Prime, Swoop and forward) which coincides with the price hike.

Those figures you just mentioned are not in a "recent wave", they came out very early fall BEFORE the price hike. You can actually trace the fall of Animated toy sales more directly to the lack of new TV episodes for half a year. Either way, they made too many for the demmand, I don't see why people keep arguing otherwise. I'm not "blaming", just stating fact.

Primus C-00 wrote:No problem. Like you say:

Now is our moment to get what we wanted for so long...

You're gonna make an adult swim version of TFA called 'The Great War', preferably with the SW: the clone wars cgi styling, that will be aired as 25 bi-weekly, 11 minute stand alone chapters that close in an 88 minute finale titled 'Year One' that ties all the previous episodes to this main event ala SW: Tales from Mos Eisley?

That would be sweet, thank you.

Mkall wrote:Sorry, wasn't implying that was the case. More of a general statement towards the current economic situation and attitudes rather than personal choice.

I think you mentioned it somewhere, but I did forget the associated costs in transporting the goods. That would definitely fall with local production facilities. I don't know how much shipping en masse from China costs, but if it's anything like (ebay x 1,000,000) then that could keep prices down, but there would still be a small increase methinks.

I've had to learn to watch for word traps, not that that was your goal nor did I take any offense.

There will always be a price increase, but in this case, it would be worth it a couple years down the line as the money returns to the western market and people get back to having a disposable income.

Serpent O - R wrote:
You're gonna make an adult swim version of TFA called 'The Great War', preferably with the SW: the clone wars cgi styling, that will be aired as 25 bi-weekly, 11 minute stand alone chapters that close in an 88 minute finale titled 'Year One' that ties all the previous episodes to this main event ala SW: Tales from Mos Eisley?

That would be sweet, thank you.

...

There will always be a price increase, but in this case, it would be worth it a couple years down the line as the money returns to the western market and people get back to having a disposable income.

I was thinking more along the lines of the centralised manufacture thing, but a little magical nudging towards something like the Great War can't be wrong.

Primus C-00 wrote:What is a:

Pinky Prime

25th Anniversary, G1 re-issue Prime that they were charging $69.99 for. General consensus is that the color is off and looks almost pink...

I have not been buying as much as I used to. My completist days are over. Especially given some of the moulds that are slated to come out for ROTF.

This is all Heavy Load and Drop Shot's fault...

Higher prices + too many shelfwarmers and not enough (or any) of the good stuff we want + economic strain + computer price glitches (such as the recent $4.99 TFA 2-packs) = losses. What I really would like to know is how much money did they lose on that glitch/super-clearance? The biggest issues I've seen are the price hikes and the lack of anything but the shelf-warmers...

And that's only referring to brick-and-mortar sales.